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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by demigodus View Post
    Are you still allowed to use diplomacy to turn people into your fanatics? They might believe you are crazy and no demons are coming, but they are happy to set up the preparations because it would make you happy.

    What alignment are you? As an evil artificer, you could get a LOT of crafting xp/gold from sacrificing fanatics (via the BoVD sacrifice ritual), just so you don't have to worry about pesky things like WBL. Make a **** ton of scrolls of Celestial Brilliance. Go around city/have fanatic wizards go around the city, casting it in every single crevice. Not sure if you can stack Bane Magic (outsider) on it, but if you can, go for it.
    I'm Neutral Good. If I were an Evil Artificer, would I even care about saving the city?
    I underwent "Specialized High Intensity Training" for the English language. My training focused on avoiding abbreviations and acronyms. Not all of them are a good thing.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Look up the Sacred Item (Complete Champion 126) spell. An item imbued with this spell does 7d4 (at lowest CL) damage to evil outsiders upon contact, no save no SR (there IS a save but it only applies to undead fleeing). It has no effect on non-evil/non-outsiders and non-shapechangers, so the general populace should be safe. The duration is permanent, so you can stockpile as many of these items as you can produce. It like the Clerical equivalent of Explosive Runes*.

    *Note: You could ALSO use mass explosive runes if you wanted.

    For a start You can imbue ammo (slings, arrows) with it, and have your militia make range touch attacks with said ammo. Thats WAAYYY more effective than anything a level 1 warrior would normally be able to do. And of course, you should cast this on your militias armor as well, just so that the first demon that strikes the guy gets a nasty surprise. You can even cast it on their weapons for making melee touch attacks: Clubs are free, one guard can carry several.

    (On a side note, evil outsides pack a lot of mind-hosing powers, so be sure to bring protection from evil, or magic circle evil, so that your militia don't wind up killing each other.)

    If you have additional castings, you can throw them on the scenery: The doors to houses, the clothes of the people (for similiar reasons that you cast on guard armor) and every cobble stone of the road, every brick in your buildings. When a demon blows up the moment he steps out of the portal, you know you're doing something right. (The downside is that this is vulnerable to area dispel).

    My personal favorite tactic involves casting it on a small pebbles, and loading a ludicrous number of pebbles into a bag of holding (or equivalent effect like Horde Gullet). Then fly above the horde of evil outsiders and invert the BoH inside out, sending a rain of pebbles, each doing 7d4 on touch, no save. Even a balor will drop instantly to that. Its also possible to use sand, but that becomes more vulnerable to wind effects.

    Now try and see how many castings of Sacred Item you can crank out before invasion. Its a cleric 4 spell so mid-level clerics can cast it everyday. Make Tippy-esque self-resetting traps of Sacred Item if you can.

    Incidentally, Sacred Item is also my go-to spell for Wighpocalyse recovery.
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    I think you just saved my city.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by JeminiZero View Post
    Look up the Sacred Item (Complete Champion 126) spell. An item imbued with this spell does 7d4 (at lowest CL) damage to evil outsiders upon contact, no save no SR (there IS a save but it only applies to undead fleeing). It has no effect on non-evil/non-outsiders and non-shapechangers, so the general populace should be safe. The duration is permanent, so you can stockpile as many of these items as you can produce. It like the Clerical equivalent of Explosive Runes*.

    *Note: You could ALSO use mass explosive runes if you wanted.

    For a start You can imbue ammo (slings, arrows) with it, and have your militia make range touch attacks with said ammo. Thats WAAYYY more effective than anything a level 1 warrior would normally be able to do. And of course, you should cast this on your militias armor as well, just so that the first demon that strikes the guy gets a nasty surprise. You can even cast it on their weapons for making melee touch attacks: Clubs are free, one guard can carry several.

    (On a side note, evil outsides pack a lot of mind-hosing powers, so be sure to bring protection from evil, or magic circle evil, so that your militia don't wind up killing each other.)

    If you have additional castings, you can throw them on the scenery: The doors to houses, the clothes of the people (for similiar reasons that you cast on guard armor) and every cobble stone of the road, every brick in your buildings. When a demon blows up the moment he steps out of the portal, you know you're doing something right. (The downside is that this is vulnerable to area dispel).

    My personal favorite tactic involves casting it on a small pebbles, and loading a ludicrous number of pebbles into a bag of holding (or equivalent effect like Horde Gullet). Then fly above the horde of evil outsiders and invert the BoH inside out, sending a rain of pebbles, each doing 7d4 on touch, no save. Even a balor will drop instantly to that. Its also possible to use sand, but that becomes more vulnerable to wind effects.

    Now try and see how many castings of Sacred Item you can crank out before invasion. Its a cleric 4 spell so mid-level clerics can cast it everyday. Make Tippy-esque self-resetting traps of Sacred Item if you can.

    Incidentally, Sacred Item is also my go-to spell for Wighpocalyse recovery.
    Sacred Item! I think you just saved my city.

    Okay, so I'm going with a Cleric 5 / Runecaster 10. Then I'll make a resetting trap of Sacred Item to fill the city with them. I'm going to offer to repave the city streets with small cobblestone. Each cobblestone will be a Sacred Item. I'll also offer to "enchant" the city guard's weapons and armor with runes to make them more effective. At the same time, I'll also make them Sacred Items. I'll also put a couple runes of Blinding Glory and several runes of Celestial Brilliance throughout the city.

    I think I should be good now.
    I underwent "Specialized High Intensity Training" for the English language. My training focused on avoiding abbreviations and acronyms. Not all of them are a good thing.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Averis Vol's Avatar

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    could you try to use illusions to make the city look already destroyed and get some kind of immunity to scrying on the citizens? so the citizens are hidden from the easier kinds of detection, then you could have the buildings "destroyed" and maybe corpses strewn about. then make an image of a terrosque moving off in the distance.
    honestly, with 5000 of each....one level 15 char cant do it without a lot of cheese.

    EDIT: forgot about the powerful NPC's, i still advocate an evasive maneuver, maybe once you hide everything, wait til the demons attack and assault there now emptyish plane, destroy the one calling the shots and then they will probably just return, the campaign isn't worth it anymore. bout all i got.
    Last edited by Averis Vol; 2012-05-10 at 12:20 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kansaschaser View Post
    Do you know how expensive it would be to host a tournament! I don't think I have the funds for that. I might be able to convince the city officials that a tournament would be good for the city and make participation mandatory. That's a thought...
    You're bang on that not being able to convince anyone that they should listen to your plans is a major impediment to properly planning your defenses for this assault. Your three paths to getting around this would seem to be:

    • Take over control of the government (entirely do-able with some dominate/charm magic or something similar, but prone to backfiring at the DM's whim.
    • Become loved and respected in spite of your loony ideas about an invasion from the abyss, and get people to do what you want them to do out of friendship/loyalty/etc.
    • Don't rely on the resources of the city AT ALL when planning your defense.


    I lean towards the latter because it's the least dependent on the cooperation of the DM. Still, we are talking about tens of thousands of demons - you're not going to be able to deal with this alone, regardless of what you do.

    Re: cost of a tournament. It doesn't have to be a tournament, and it doesn't have to be mandatory. You've got an 18th level bard in the city? Hire them for two days. The first day, they wander around the city diplomacy-ing crowds into thinking that their show tomorrow is going to be the Best Thing Ever and Not To Be Missed. The second day, the bard puts on the show, and everyone has a great time - right up to the point where the demons show up. Fortunately, at that point, you have an eighteenth level bard close at hand who can inspire everyone.

    You've been using some of your six months of prep time to Plane Shift to scout out a location just outside (or inside, if you can swing it) a Place of Awesomeness And Great Power in the upper planes. An amphitheatre right next to Heironeous' swimming pool, so to speak. That's where you gate everyone when they show up for the show. Who doesn't love a mystery concert tour? That way, when the demonic hordes start showing up, Heironeous will have already known about it for weeks in advance thanks to divine ranks, and is ready to assemble the celestial masses to deliver unto the demons the righteous smackdown they deserve.

    For bonus points, this plan still works perfectly in tandem with traps of Sacred Item (but NOT dismissal - in this scenario, the people are all extraplanar, and you do NOT want to scatter them all over the universe), which you can plant around the amphitheatre as desired (what kind of LG god would object to having Sacred Object cast on things in his neighbourhood. Traps of other long-term protective spells, that your poplulation walks over when they emerge from the gate, might also be a good thing.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Averis Vol View Post
    could you try to use illusions to make the city look already destroyed and get some kind of immunity to scrying on the citizens? so the citizens are hidden from the easier kinds of detection, then you could have the buildings "destroyed" and maybe corpses strewn about. then make an image of a terrosque moving off in the distance.
    honestly, with 5000 of each....one level 15 char cant do it without a lot of cheese.
    I could use Illusions to supplement the stuff I'm already doing with Sacred Item, Celestial Brilliance, and Blinding Glory.

    Although, if most of the demons will be blind from Blinding Glory, the Illusion spells will only be useful in areas where there is not a Blinding Glory.
    I underwent "Specialized High Intensity Training" for the English language. My training focused on avoiding abbreviations and acronyms. Not all of them are a good thing.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Toliudar View Post
    You're bang on that not being able to convince anyone that they should listen to your plans is a major impediment to properly planning your defenses for this assault. Your three paths to getting around this would seem to be:

    • Take over control of the government (entirely do-able with some dominate/charm magic or something similar, but prone to backfiring at the DM's whim.
    • Become loved and respected in spite of your loony ideas about an invasion from the abyss, and get people to do what you want them to do out of friendship/loyalty/etc.
    • Don't rely on the resources of the city AT ALL when planning your defense.


    I lean towards the latter because it's the least dependent on the cooperation of the DM. Still, we are talking about tens of thousands of demons - you're not going to be able to deal with this alone, regardless of what you do.

    Re: cost of a tournament. It doesn't have to be a tournament, and it doesn't have to be mandatory. You've got an 18th level bard in the city? Hire them for two days. The first day, they wander around the city diplomacy-ing crowds into thinking that their show tomorrow is going to be the Best Thing Ever and Not To Be Missed. The second day, the bard puts on the show, and everyone has a great time - right up to the point where the demons show up. Fortunately, at that point, you have an eighteenth level bard close at hand who can inspire everyone.

    You've been using some of your six months of prep time to Plane Shift to scout out a location just outside (or inside, if you can swing it) a Place of Awesomeness And Great Power in the upper planes. An amphitheatre right next to Heironeous' swimming pool, so to speak. That's where you gate everyone when they show up for the show. Who doesn't love a mystery concert tour? That way, when the demonic hordes start showing up, Heironeous will have already known about it for weeks in advance thanks to divine ranks, and is ready to assemble the celestial masses to deliver unto the demons the righteous smackdown they deserve.

    For bonus points, this plan still works perfectly in tandem with traps of Sacred Item (but NOT dismissal - in this scenario, the people are all extraplanar, and you do NOT want to scatter them all over the universe), which you can plant around the amphitheatre as desired (what kind of LG god would object to having Sacred Object cast on things in his neighbourhood. Traps of other long-term protective spells, that your poplulation walks over when they emerge from the gate, might also be a good thing.
    I still plan on lureing most of the citizens to a "safe" location for their protection. This will be the most defended area with lots of Celestial Brilliance, Blinding Glory, and Sacred Items. I really like the "hire a Bard" idea. Inspire Courage on the City Guard seems like a great thing to do.

    I'm also going to place a couple runes of spells that are permenent that cause Force damage. These runes will activate when a demon passes within 30 feet and they will cast the spell every round. The spell will be maxamized for free too.

    It's gonna take all my money, but I'm sure I could get this accomplished.

    I'm hoping for an 80% survival rate, if not better.
    I underwent "Specialized High Intensity Training" for the English language. My training focused on avoiding abbreviations and acronyms. Not all of them are a good thing.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    About your Cassandra situation: Is it that you CANNOT convince anyone you are correct no matter what you do, because fate or a curse has decreed it or something? Or is it just that you HAVE NOT provided any evidence so you seem like a doomsday prophecy spewing lunatic, but people could be convinced if you provided proof?

    If it's the latter then maybe your first step should be to figure out how to prove that demons are going to invade so everyone helps you.

    Seek out a famous oracle to endorse your view? Ask the local clerics to cast some divinations? Submit yourself to magical scans to analyze your sanity and whether you speak the truth? Before the city council, summon a captive demon and interrogate it about the demonic invasion plans?

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lysander View Post
    About your Cassandra situation: Is it that you CANNOT convince anyone you are correct no matter what you do, because fate or a curse has decreed it or something? Or is it just that you HAVE NOT provided any evidence so you seem like a doomsday prophecy spewing lunatic, but people could be convinced if you provided proof?

    If it's the latter then maybe your first step should be to figure out how to prove that demons are going to invade so everyone helps you.

    Seek out a famous oracle to endorse your view? Ask the local clerics to cast some divinations? Submit yourself to magical scans to analyze your sanity and whether you speak the truth? Before the city council, summon a captive demon and interrogate it about the demonic invasion plans?
    My god is the one that sent me into the future and then let me rebuild my character. I was told by my god(or divine agent), that I cannot convince anyone of what is to come. "Someone of divine importance" will be born to the citizens of this city in the future that will end the 1,000 year war in Hell. This is another thing I was told by the agent of my god. Again, I can't convince anyone of this either.

    I've tried to do some diplomacy, and it fails every time. Through DM Fiat, they always make up some reason they won't help. I also paid a Cleric to use Discern Lies on me while I told them what happened. Everyone present believed me. However, when I went on to discuss how to protect the city, it's like everyone was struck with amnesia about the previous casting of Discern Lies. Then they don't believe me anymore.

    I've also tried to use Bluff to help. That was somewhat helpful as long as I lied about the reason. I could lie that some orc or goblins were scouting out certain sections of the city for an attack, and then city officials would boost the defense of the city somehow, but it's been minor changes.

    Edit: I was given the impression that if I drastically alter the way the city functions too much, then my god will be punished by the other gods and he may lose some divine rank.
    Last edited by Kansaschaser; 2012-05-10 at 12:44 PM.
    I underwent "Specialized High Intensity Training" for the English language. My training focused on avoiding abbreviations and acronyms. Not all of them are a good thing.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Hmmm...my suggestion might violate alignment, but it should see the invasion stopped.

    You have foreknowledge of a large demon invasion. A knowledge(the planes) check should tell you that their natural enemies include the angels/archons, and the devils. If you tell the devils of the invasion, then they will likely intervene. If I'm remembering their backstory right, they fell because they were too zealous in their duty to prevent the demons from invading the prime material. If you offer them information, and invite them to use divinations to confirm it, they may see fit to intervene. A disjunction, followed by a miracle to remove any insanities, followed by a voluntarily failed zone of truth should offer a very high standard of proof.

    If they do, however, the city will become a battlefield for the blood war, necessitating some fairly strong evacuation procedures.

    Edit: Due to further clarification on the cassandra situation, the above probably won't work. Your best bet is probably the sacred cobblestones...
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Mythals are described under the Lost Empires of Faerun, page 45+. Probably outside your league.

    I always liked greater magic weapon, align weapon, sacred item, etc. on your troops' ammunition. Tack on some Blessed Aim, Haste, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Sacred Item (defensive), and a variety of other buff spells and you can turn all level 1 soldiers in your vicinity into demon-killing machines with bows.

    You can't do a whole lot of this preparation beforehand, except Sacred Item, I guess. But maybe you can provide a cheap laundry business for the whole town and buy a few decent-level clerics who can cast Sacred Item on every non-magical piece of clothing they get coming in. The whole town would be blessed in no time, and it has little effect on those pesky evil and neutral human-types. Cobblestones works too, but that assumes that your baddies will not be flying.

    Also, during the fight, don't imagine for a second that the baddies won't use their teleportation, flight, and other special abilities to avoid your traps and barricades. Bottom line is that you have to protect the people. Doing that with lots of beautiful ammunition is one way, and protecting them bodily is another. Still, 5,000 Balors... 40,000 total demons... Woof.

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Oh yeah, and something I forgot to mention: you know exactly who's coming to town; use that to your advantage. Learn the strengths and weaknesses of all the demon types coming and do your best to utilize them.

    For example, a Glabrezu (and all demons) are going to be able to take whatever energy damage you throw their way and laugh at it...except SONIC!!! Also, this guy is a bruiser with low dex and huge size. Touch attacks, more specifically Ranged Touch Attacks, such as a lot of arrows with sacred item or the cobblestone idea would work well on them.

    Then take it a step further. Learn names, histories, details about the alliances that have brought them to the city, and do your best to use this information against your foes to keep them off guard. Just knowing that their goal is to eradicate the people of the city for a thousand years is enough to tell you that making some of the people disappear in front of the demons will make them PISSED! How can they accomplish their goal if a group of 100 gets away? Wait...Fred the Balor took them? We should totally gang up on Fred and make him give those guys back!

    You get the idea.

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kansaschaser View Post
    Sacred Item! I think you just saved my city.

    Okay, so I'm going with a Cleric 5 / Runecaster 10. Then I'll make a resetting trap of Sacred Item to fill the city with them. I'm going to offer to repave the city streets with small cobblestone. Each cobblestone will be a Sacred Item. I'll also offer to "enchant" the city guard's weapons and armor with runes to make them more effective. At the same time, I'll also make them Sacred Items. I'll also put a couple runes of Blinding Glory and several runes of Celestial Brilliance throughout the city.

    I think I should be good now.
    Keep in mind sacred item effects only 1 item per casting. I can't do the math because I'm at work but even with every spell slot you have and spending all if your gold on scrolls that's only going to get a few thousand sacred items (estimated) and most if the demons will require multiplke stones to be killed. You'll still be a long way from defeating all of them although it is a very good preparation.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Toliudar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Other ideas for outsourcing survival techniques:

    • +1 to the idea of advertising for adventurers to be hired for a job, with instructions to show up to the city on the day before the invasion happens.
    • Form the Boy Scouts of demon hunting - free training for young adults who want to learn self-defense techniques against demons in general. Everybody gets sacred item sling bullets. Plus, there's juice and sandwiches after. In real life, people PAY for access to training and socialization opportunities, even in situations where the training may never get used. Why should Megatown be any different?
    • Spend time in the next few months making friends with powerful spellcasters in other cities. Do nice things for them in exchange for future favours. On the night before the attack, use a series of Sendings to call in the favours.
    Currently climbing out of a heckofa two weeks at work/RL. Now working to catch up. Thanks for your patience.

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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    I'm going to make a very quick comment=>

    A Number of daemons large as this[forget for a moment about Balors, Marlith and any influential daemons, they are a whole different story] will raise 5 metric tons of red flags ALL over the cosmology.

    This means that you can alert a large amount of "people" about this if they somehow miss this. Its been said a lo about Devils and angels, but I suggest

    =>Daemon Princes.
    Yep. These guys. First you can summon Pazuzu[you are good alignment so you can totally ring him up and he is likely to pick up the phone, and first call won't land you an alignment shift!] and ask him, whats up with all this, and where is this LARGE number of daemons came from? Under who's command are they marching? Or who did they desert?

    After you find out the latest feed from Abyss's CNN, you can do two of the following=>
    >If the daemons are marching under a command of some particular Price, alert his "competition" about this. This means, as soon as daemons start to enter he city, the competition will start entering the daemon prices territory, forcing the Prince to immediately withdraw.
    >If these are deserters, than alert the prince so he/she can pimp smack them back into their place. This is likely to bring down these enormous armies back down to a "usual" daemon invasion that you can handle with no issues.

    P.S. Just talking to a Devil or a Daemon Prince is NOT an alignment change unless you are a Paladin. Even a cleric is allowed to "just talk" about this. Don't mention your time travel shtick and you'll be fine. The devils aren't recommended as, while they do hate daemons with the most passion possible, they ARE ALWAYS looking out for themselves. This means, that even if you somehow succeed in getting them to help you without any divine back lash[they are more connected with gods then daemons, so backlash is more likley], they WILL make every conceivable effort to profit from this. From trying to buy the town's souls, to black mail you into helping them to buy town's souls.

    This is why I suggested daemon princes. They are conniving and terrible, but contacting a right Prince will tie him/her up and will likely to be issues free in a long run. Abyss isn't unified, they won't work together easily and since the nature of the issue is "funneling of forces" no prince will just assign some force to the town and is likely to keep all hot mess in Abyss where it belongs.
    Last edited by Red_Dog; 2012-05-10 at 02:05 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dog View Post
    I'm going to make a very quick comment=>

    A Number of daemons large as this[forget for a moment about Balors, Marlith and any influential daemons, they are a whole different story] will raise 5 metric tons of red flags ALL over the cosmology.

    This means that you can alert a large amount of "people" about this if they somehow miss this. Its been said a lo about Devils and angels, but I suggest

    =>Daemon Princes.
    Yep. These guys. First you can summon Pazuzu[you are good alignment so you can totally ring him up and he is likely to pick up the phone, and first call won't land you an alignment shift!] and ask him, whats up with all this, and where is this LARGE number of daemons came from? Under who's command are they marching? Or who did they desert?

    After you find out the latest feed from Abyss's CNN, you can do two of the following=>
    >If the daemons are marching under a command of some particular Price, alert his "competition" about this. This means, as soon as daemons start to enter he city, the competition will start entering the daemon prices territory, forcing the Prince to immediately withdraw.
    >If these are deserters, than alert the prince so he/she can pimp smack them back into their place. This is likely to bring down these enormous armies back down to a "usual" daemon invasion that you can handle with no issues.

    Pazuzu is banned.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by invaderk2 View Post
    Pazuzu is banned.
    *sigh*, I though just asking for Intel won't be a "bannable". Pazuzu wishing is definitly a terrible practice[balance wise], but I though just talking to him over some refreshments about local news wouldn't so bad.

    Very well than. Next best guy is Graz'zt. He has more limited pool of intel, but is FAR more power-hungry and ambitious. Either of scenarios will interest him.

    Contacting him is a bit harder. One need to find a cult, than rough them up[not hard for CL16] and tell them to arrange an audience.

    If this doesn't work, we can go and beat around the main bushes=>
    Demogorgon OR Pale night.

    Demogorgon is contacted in similar way as Graz'zt, but he is tougher to talk to, and has his tentacles in lots of divine bowls, so... yeah, tread lightly
    His pride might just prevent him from co-operating. However, you do get 2 chances[one per personality]! ^^

    Pale Night is a nice quest on her own. Dangerous quest directly into her layer of Abyss, that will lead you to speak with HER directly. She is co-operative to a point. Be VERY careful, she is powerful... and bat poop bunkers insane, way more so than Demagorgon[even though it might not seem so at first glance].
    Advantages however include her likely non-involvement in this event and accurate intelligence on what is happening.
    Last edited by Red_Dog; 2012-05-10 at 02:20 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    hire some mercs (you will only need a small number, one of them, or you will need to be able to teleport) Stage a series of flashy attacks all around the city against the local authorities 3 month prior to the invasion of the horde, issue a manifesto around the city full of all sorts of rediculous demands. In the manifesto state that your force is part of a larger (demonic)cult that has infiltrated the city and will stage a mass assault in 3 months if the demands arn't met. The leaders of the city will respond by mobilizing to defend against an army of cultists and demons on the day that the actual invasion is going to happen. the only reason they arn't mobilizing now is that they don't think there is a threat, so, Create a Threat.
    Warning!! This poster makes frequent use of Sarcasm, Jokes, and Exaggeration. He intends no offense.

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dog View Post
    *sigh*, I though just asking for Intel won't be a "bannable". Pazuzu wishing is definitly a terrible practice[balance wise], but I though just talking to him over some refreshments about local news wouldn't so bad.

    Very well than. Next best guy is Graz'zt. He has more limited pool of intel, but is FAR more power-hungry and ambitious. Either of scenarios will interest him.

    Contacting him is a bit harder. One need to find a cult, than rough them up[not hard for CL16] and tell them to arrange an audience.

    If this doesn't work, we can go and beat around the main bushes=>
    Demogorgon OR Pale night.

    Demogorgon is contacted in similar way as Graz'zt, but he is tougher to talk to, and has his tentacles in lots of divine bowls, so... yeah, tread lightly
    His pride might just prevent him from co-operating. However, you do get 2 chances[one per personality]! ^^

    Pale Night is a nice quest on her own. Dangerous quest directly into her layer of Abyss, that will lead you to speak with HER directly. She is co-operative to a point. Be VERY careful, she is powerful... and bat poop bunkers insane, way more so than Demagorgon[even though it might not seem so at first glance].
    Advantages however include her likely non-involvement in this event and accurate intelligence on what is happening.
    I think this whole idea has merit. Short of stopping it or finding an equivilant army to defend with there's nothing the NPC's in the town can do that will be effective.

    Let's say you mange to kill half the balors by the time the entire army has made it through the portals and nevermind the 250,000 cumulative points of damage from death throes inflicted from killing them, you suddenly have 2,500 at will fire storms and implosions every round. That's just the balors not to mention the other 45,000 demons running around.
    Last edited by Invader; 2012-05-10 at 02:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by invaderk2 View Post
    I think this whole idea has merit. Short of stopping it or funding an equivilant army to defend with there's nothing the NPC's in the town can do that will be effective.

    Let's say you mange to kill half the balors by the time the entire army as made it through the portals and nevermind the 250,000 cumulative points of damage from death throes inflicted from killing them, you suddenly have 2,500 at fire storms and implosions every round. That's just the balors not to mention the other 45,000 demons running around.
    By the by, I will still question Balor's presence there at all in such ODD ratio. = \ Balors come as any other general does. If there is 5k worth of generals, how many foot soldiers are there? It should be around 100k of vrocks alone. = ]

    *Yes. Abyss is technically unlimited in its resources but there is a good reason why 5k of Balros don't rolfstomp the kingdoms every day.*

    And even if one wants to use that many Balors... well how many dretches will there be exactly? I would say few millions. Yes a dretch is not very threatening, but they have high HP for there lvl and few million of them... well should be enough to cover the entire city in a few foot thick coating?
    Last edited by Red_Dog; 2012-05-10 at 02:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    The caster level 20 blasphemy is probably something what need be addressed.

    I'd probably use 6 months of hard work on a shovel and with earth moving spells to make tunnels for evacuation outside the city in every single house without telling everyone until the last minute, get them all out as they were being invaded. Sovereign seal up the gates during the night, not that it'll stop all the fliers, but it's a start. Subsequently, I'd then probably demolish the city with explosive runes while the demons were hunting non-existant enemies.

    Under no condition do I believe any form of combat would be feasible granted those resources. I also believe it will either be the city or the populace that will be lost, I don't think saving both is feasible.
    Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
    DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
    Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dog View Post
    By the by, I will still question Balor's presence there at all in such ODD ratio. = \ Balors come as any other general does. If there is 5k worth of generals, how many foot soldiers are there? It should be around 100k of vrocks alone. = ]

    *Yes. Abyss is technically unlimited in its resources but there is a good reason why 5k of Balros don't rolfstomp the kingdoms every day.*

    And even if one wants to use that many Balors... well how many dretches will there be exactly? I would say few millions. Yes a dretch is not very threatening, but they have high HP for there lvl and few million of them... well should be enough to cover the entire city in a few foot thick coating?
    Well you raise a good question here, or it is a miss from the DM, or the whole time travel thing is just an illusion made you to beleve it will happend.

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by kabreras View Post
    Well you raise a good question here, or it is a miss from the DM, or the whole time travel thing is just an illusion made you to beleve it will happend.
    Here is a quick calc btw, just from no dretches present, and 5k of Balors, Hezrou and Marliths in first round present.

    ========================================>
    5k of balors bring an average of 100k of dretches. Marlith have 50% of doing the same, so lets say another 50k. Hezrou has 35% chance, so 35k of dretches So yeah, we do have a wall'O'Dretches numbering in 185k.

    This means that in 1st round, you have 3+ dretches PER person.
    And that is just from doing rough numbers from the commanding daemons. I forget if there is a rule against summoned daemons summoning, but in second round... its going to be 249.75k of dretches... from dretches summoning dretches. That's 5 dretches per person... SO yeah... odds are pretty terrible, and I think these number DO warrant my solution of co-operating with Daemon princes = ]

    P.S. If anyone is interested =>
    ~250K of dretches is 3.25 million hit points, & 500HD[in terms of banishing]
    While 15k of leading daemons TOGETHER is => 3.22 million Hitpoints & 230HD

    So yeah... this force belongs in Abyss, the sooner you stuff it back there, using any and all means necessary, the better = ]
    Last edited by Red_Dog; 2012-05-10 at 03:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Sorry for the OT but i wasn't able to resist:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kansaschaser View Post
    Commoner 22
    Srsly?
    Last edited by docnessuno; 2012-05-10 at 03:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dog View Post
    By the by, I will still question Balor's presence there at all in such ODD ratio. = \ Balors come as any other general does. If there is 5k worth of generals, how many foot soldiers are there? It should be around 100k of vrocks alone. = ]

    *Yes. Abyss is technically unlimited in its resources but there is a good reason why 5k of Balros don't rolfstomp the kingdoms every day.*

    And even if one wants to use that many Balors... well how many dretches will there be exactly? I would say few millions. Yes a dretch is not very threatening, but they have high HP for there lvl and few million of them... well should be enough to cover the entire city in a few foot thick coating?
    I immediately wondered about this as well but I decided to just roll with it for fun lol. I think it's safe to say there's nothing you can reasonably do to make any kind of martial defense against that many demons.

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by invaderk2 View Post
    I immediately wondered about this as well but I decided to just roll with it for fun lol. I think it's safe to say there's nothing you can reasonably do to make any kind of martial defense against that many demons.
    =>invaderk2

    Mechanically speaking, I can think of exactly ONE creature type that can stop this in print.

    Fiendish Codex 2, Legion Devil. I think that they were written in to explain, just HOW it is that daemons didn't roll all over 9 hells just yet. = ]

    Look 'em up, they are sick. Even without re-feating them, a legion of just few thousands is unbelievable in its efficiency. They combine their HP pool, can not be mind effected as if one is effected, they ALL roll and statistically group of large than 20 will crit every time, pretty much Auto-hit[+4 to hit per devil], can aid each other [and WILL] to make epic skill checks to spot and than kill people and have quite a few means of moving around.

    But according to the Fiendish codex entry, they require salary that must be paid or they won't work, or probably beat it out of you if you lied[unlikely, aid another sense motive lol]. So hiring them for a day for a large lump sum of gold can be cool-ish. Expect a Devil Lord on your behind though, as you are drawing forces away from blood war, and generally being arrogant about doing something that they generally can't afford to do[hiring few hundred units is a hefty tag, and DM can dictate the price as the FCII doesn't specify the price and minimum on hiring limit] = ]
    *All this functions usually in 60ft radius... so 200-ish devils constitute a working "unit/regiment". So think roman legions, except each legion has its own leader and own contract if you are hiring it*

    On upside, legion devil is not going to steal anyone's soul and will leave as soon as contract expires. So they are great mercs = ].

    P.S. Speaking of official printed Mercs, look up WarTrolls. Fun and usually very co-operative. Pay them and they will come = ] They also regen like crazy and require very little support
    Last edited by Red_Dog; 2012-05-10 at 03:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kansaschaser View Post
    My god is the one that sent me into the future and then let me rebuild my character. I was told by my god(or divine agent), that I cannot convince anyone of what is to come. "Someone of divine importance" will be born to the citizens of this city in the future that will end the 1,000 year war in Hell. This is another thing I was told by the agent of my god. Again, I can't convince anyone of this either.

    I've tried to do some diplomacy, and it fails every time. Through DM Fiat, they always make up some reason they won't help. I also paid a Cleric to use Discern Lies on me while I told them what happened. Everyone present believed me. However, when I went on to discuss how to protect the city, it's like everyone was struck with amnesia about the previous casting of Discern Lies. Then they don't believe me anymore.

    I've also tried to use Bluff to help. That was somewhat helpful as long as I lied about the reason. I could lie that some orc or goblins were scouting out certain sections of the city for an attack, and then city officials would boost the defense of the city somehow, but it's been minor changes.

    Edit: I was given the impression that if I drastically alter the way the city functions too much, then my god will be punished by the other gods and he may lose some divine rank.
    It seems like your god (aka DM) doesn't actually want you to save the city, considering he's using divine amnesia fiat to thwart you.

    So the important thing here isn't to save the city, since that's impossible. The key is this "person of divine importance". The demons are coming to kill them, they don't actually care about the city and the regular inhabitants there.

    So a better strategy is to figure out, through magic and old fashioned sleuthing, who in the city will give birth to this child. Then you can either move those people elsewhere to a guarded place, so the demons can't reach them, and perhaps eliminate their purpose for attacking the city in the first place. Maybe that would make them call off the attack.

    Or if you're willing to stray from purely good alignment, maybe you can negotiate with the demons to trade these people for the city's safety. Although they're chaotic so who knows how much faith you can have in a deal.

    You may also have to accept that your DM might simply not let you save the city no matter what you do. In which case you should divert your attention to saving as much as possible. Maybe you're only supposed to save the child of cosmic significance and nothing else. Maybe you can just get a handful of NPCs you care about out. Instead of saving the city you should have plan B that just involves evacuating a few people, by force or trickery if necessary.

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Well as a wizard if i knew something like this would happend...
    Trust me i would have my contingency greater tÚlÚport ready for the day.

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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Almost forgot one more Daemon prince as a potential contact =>

    Dagon. He knows quite a bit and generally regarded as a "seer" and lore keeper of Abyss history being one of the oldest things in abyss period.

    The biggest advantage in dealing with him is that he is likely aware of w/e your god already did and clearly didn't tell anyone about this and therefore isn't likely to spill the beans.

    Contacting him from material plane is very tricky as his cults are rare and include Kraken and Kua-toa who are not likely to share information, be hidden in hostile environments[sea depths] & over all be a challenge to find and "convince" to co-operate. Dealing with him also carries a risk of involving Blipdoolpoolp which IS a deity and will try to screw Dagon over at every opportunity if only by proxy.
    *Alternatively you can pass your knowledge planes and use contact other planes to make a collect call to him. This solution however might be on that list of things banned, or generally not favored by your DM as it smells quite funny as all solutions that involve "Contact other plane" do.*


    So again, big quest, dangerous, high risk - high reward. Mostly a back up option tbh as this one can get sticky with direct odds with another diety.
    Last edited by Red_Dog; 2012-05-10 at 04:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Defend this City! [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kansaschaser View Post
    Then I'll make a resetting trap of Sacred Item to fill the city with them.
    That would be against the rules of the Test of Spite, surely?


    5k of each type of monster you mentioned is far too much, whoever thought that was a good idea is clearly insane or thinks large numbers is a good way to challenge someone (look at the Immortals Handbook for how wrong that is) - This isn't something you can win in direct combat without epic spellcasting.

    The solution is to go Artificer, create scrolls of Genesis, and use your 6 months to create a demiplane with appropriate stored resources and space to protect as much of the population as you can. When the army comes, you tell everyone in the city that they have to escape through a series of gates surrounded by a Antipathy spells of as high a DC as you can manage keyed against Demons.

    Use multiple antipathies per gate for a greater chance that the Demons will fail their saves against at least one of them.

    If possible, convince some of the population to leave prior to the attack. Perhaps by advertising your new genesis'd demiplane as a paradise of some sort.

    Should be within your wealth limit if you use the usual Artificer-tricks for magic item cost reduction. Test of Spite rules limit this to 65% of the usual cost, at minimum.
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