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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XXXIII. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.
    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. This comes up often enough to bear mention in the rules: Dragon Compendium is allowed.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59PM GMT on Saturday, May 26, 2012 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Amphetryon. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 11:59PM GMT on Saturday, June 9th, 2012 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.
    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
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    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
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    [b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]Class[/b]|[b]Base Attack Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[b]Skills[/b]|[b]Feats[/b]|[b]Class Features[/b]

    1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per day/Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
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    [b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

    This week's special ingredient is:
    Underdark's Drow Judicator!
    We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

    Allez optimiser!

    Contestants

    Judges

    The Builds

    Past Competitions

    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
    Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
    Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
    Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
    Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
    Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
    Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
    Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
    Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
    Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
    Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
    Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
    Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
    Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel
    Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2012-05-13 at 10:20 AM.
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  2. Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Menteith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Awesome, looking forward to cooking this round.
    There is the moral of all human tales;
    'Tis but the same rehearsal of the past.
    First freedom and then Glory - when that fails,
    Wealth, vice, corruption - barbarism at last.
    And History, with all her volumes vast,
    Hath but one page...

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zeb's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Never have I been sadder to the the word melee next to a special ability... off to the Realms!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    You don't see the gnomes running around fighting wars with each other, do you? No, because they're civilized.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    FAQ:
    Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes, but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Similarly, materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.


    What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Amphetryon is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    What about Adaptations? Underdark is a Forgotten Realms-specific book, clearly. While minimal changes arguably need to be made to allow Drow Judicator to work as written in, for example, Greyhawk, other settings would require more extensive reworking to make the crunch and fluff setting-appropriate. This is especially true of Eberron, where Drow venerate scorpions, not spiders. As such, using Eberron-specific fluff or crunch for this contest is not appropriate; the same is true of any other setting where spiders do not play an important part in Drow culture and religion.

    Dude, Drow have LA! What about buy-off? LA buyoff is an alternate rule. Use at your own risk, as judges have it at their discretion to penalize Elegance for this tactic. There may be other options, of course.
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2012-05-13 at 05:58 AM.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    huh. another race restricted prc. I wonder if we'll see as many ways around it as shadow sentinel.

    I'll try cooking this time around.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    A Special Ingredient based around the Drow? I am intrigued

    Sign me up.


    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    Forgive me for being ignorant, but how would 15/adamantine protect the dragon from hitting the ground at over 4,4 billion newtons?

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Huh, well... this looks fairly gishy. I am actually intrigued by this... really I am.

    I M...I...G...H...T get in on this out of curiosity.

    It looks like this class tried, to make a nice Drow gish, because 2d6 Con damage is Nice. Really nice. But 1/day effect .

    Regardless, I do not know whether I will even begin to compete, but I'll try, so keep me down as a maybe.
    Check out the Hansbachman Blog, it's a cure for all of your ills!
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    All natural, Backwards Compatible and Moving Forward with the times.
    We're off-brand, off-tempo, and on point, with an ear to the ground, finger on the pulse, and hand on the trigger.
    We're on the beat like Ginsberg, hyper-aware and hyper-active.
    Running on multi-actuated heavy duty pistons with a pistol grip.


    Thanks to Dashwood for the Extravagant Avatar

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Dumbledore lives's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    I might try my hand at judging after the very nice post in the last thread, and hell if I'm trying to build something with this class.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    If you're ever in a situation where you can't survive, go for the broke and fill all of creation with chickens. Just imagine the reaction of people halfway around the world when every square inch of space in their world is suddenly and completely full of chickens.
    Homebrew
    1st in Iron Chef XXXIV with a Warforged bard

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Menteith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    I've spent the last half hour picking out feats for the Spider Servant, and then realizing that it's mindless. I feel so smart right now.
    There is the moral of all human tales;
    'Tis but the same rehearsal of the past.
    First freedom and then Glory - when that fails,
    Wealth, vice, corruption - barbarism at last.
    And History, with all her volumes vast,
    Hath but one page...

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Menteith View Post
    I've spent the last half hour picking out feats for the Spider Servant, and then realizing that it's mindless. I feel so smart right now.
    it's not mindless forever, bro, it gets int bonuses when you lvl up. int=feats. your time was not spent in vain. good luck tricking out your arachnid of choice.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    It's my first time, but I think I'll give it a shot :) I'm in.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkSaint View Post
    It's my first time, but I think I'll give it a shot :) I'm in.
    best of luck! first timers have placed before. hope you like drow.

    seriously, 3/10ths casting is making me weep. I thought that master of masks had the lowest nonzero casting progression, but I now know I am wrong.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    I am going to be dealing with finals, but it is a flavorful class... I might give it a try.
    Currently playing:
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    I might be able to make something this time round. Shame you used one of the most awful PrC's I've ever had the misfortune of looking at. 3/10 Spellcasting? Srsly?
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2012-05-13 at 05:44 AM.
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    Avvie by araveugnitsuga
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Since I found my character concept hilarious I am going with it.

    A couple of questions about the spider servant, that are probably going to be common to contestants/judges.

    Drow Judicator

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider Servant
    At 5th level or above, a drow judicator can call a spiderlike monster to serve him. He may choose to call an 8-HD Large fiendish monstrous spider, a fiendish sword spider, a myrlochar, or a phase spider
    This means that the spider servant has 8HD. It can be a Large fiendish monstrous spider or a fiendish sword spider or a myrlochar or a phase spider.
    Or does it mean that it can be a large fiendish monstrous spider with 8HD or a fiendish sword spider or a myrlochar or a phase spider.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider Servant
    Bonus HD:These are extra Hit Dice appropriate to the creature's type (vermin for a Large monstrous spider or sword spider, outsider for a myrlochar, or magical beast for a phase spider).
    The drow judicator can have a fiendish large monstrous spider or a fiendish sword spider, not a large monstrous spider nor a sword spider. It is relevant since the fiendish versions are magical beasts and the non fiendish are vermin. Do they gain magical beast hd or vermin hd?
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    This means that the spider servant has 8HD. It can be a Large fiendish monstrous spider or a fiendish sword spider or a myrlochar or a phase spider.
    Or does it mean that it can be a large fiendish monstrous spider with 8HD or a fiendish sword spider or a myrlochar or a phase spider.
    I honestly don't know what you're asking.

    The drow judicator can have a fiendish large monstrous spider or a fiendish sword spider, not a large monstrous spider nor a sword spider. It is relevant since the fiendish versions are magical beasts and the non fiendish are vermin. Do they gain magical beast hd or vermin hd?
    The magical beasts gain magical beast HD and the vermin gain vermin HD. Seems fairly clear-cut.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    There aren't any vermin as options though, which is the weird part. A fiendish Large Monstrous Spider/Sword Spider is a Magical Beast due the template changing their type, meaning that everything either has the Magical Beast type or the Outsider type. The sidebar specifies Vermin gaining hit die, which doesn't make sense, as there's no vermin option.

    Also random side note - If a creature loses the Mindless quality (due to the Int gains) does it retroactively gain Feats/Skills, or do only new HD give it Feats/Skills? I'm reading Ur-Priests Monstrous Handbook right now, but I can't find an answer to the question.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    There aren't any vermin as options though, which is the weird part. A fiendish Large Monstrous Spider/Sword Spider is a Magical Beast due the template changing their type, meaning that everything either has the Magical Beast type or the Outsider type. The sidebar specifies Vermin gaining hit die, which doesn't make sense, as there's no vermin option.
    I'm confused; how does this change my answer, other than making it more clear-cut, with a (not terribly unusual) error in the text of the sidebar to the PrC?

    Increases in INT do not retroactively add skill points by RAW. Same thing with acquisition of feats, unless I missed an errata.
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2012-05-13 at 08:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I'm confused; how does this change my answer, other than making it more clear-cut, with a (not terribly unusual) error in the text of the sidebar to the PrC?
    "Bonus HD:These are extra Hit Dice appropriate to the creature's type (vermin for a Large monstrous spider or sword spider, outsider for a myrlochar, or magical beast for a phase spider). Each bonus Hit Die gains a Constitution modifier and improves the creature's base attack and base save bonuses, as normal."

    The Large monstrous spider and sword spider both have the Magical Beast type due to the Fiendish template - does the bonus hit die give them Vermin HD (as it specifies in the ability description) or does it give them extra HD appropriate to the creature's type (which is Magical Beast)? It specifically calls them out to gain Vermin HD, but they're not Vermin, which is confusing.
    Last edited by Menteith; 2012-05-13 at 08:30 AM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Menteith View Post
    "Bonus HD:These are extra Hit Dice appropriate to the creature's type (vermin for a Large monstrous spider or sword spider, outsider for a myrlochar, or magical beast for a phase spider). Each bonus Hit Die gains a Constitution modifier and improves the creature's base attack and base save bonuses, as normal."

    The Large monstrous spider and sword spider both have the Magical Beast type due to the Fiendish template - does the bonus hit die give them Vermin HD (as it specifies in the ability description) or does it give them extra HD appropriate to the creature's type (which is Magical Beast)? It specifically calls them out to gain Vermin HD, but they're not Vermin, which is confusing.
    And I specifically addressed it. So. . . .?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Sadly, I don't have access to Underdark. I wouldn't mind, except that the bloody entry feat isn't listed in the excerpt.

    I'll try my hand at judging this time around.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Google may be of some help there, Sgt. Cookie.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    *Ach*

    Yeah... google did help. Ignore the judging section. I'll enter as a contestent.

    Hopefuly this time I won't need 50 points of a 32 point buy. *looks at Cieyrin accusingly*
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Props to the chairman for finding this one, was happily ignorant of it before this thread
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    I might have a go at judging this time, it's about time I did, and unlike some on here I don't have any finals or anything - in fact, I have some leave from work coming up. I'm not getting any good ideas either, certainly nothing that will get more than 1 in Originality.

    I'll think about some criteria and try and get them posted.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Thanks chairman it is as I thought.

    With the HD I was asking if a phase spider that normally has 5 HD would have 8HD due to the wording of spider servant, as every other possible spider servant. Or if only the fiendish monstrous spider is the one with 8HD.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Getting freer with those racial prereqs, aren'tcha, Amph? I remember that it used to be that the only racial prereqs IC would have would be ones you could Stoneblessed your way into. Illumians (Shadow Sentinel) were an interesting choice, since my illumian and your illumian don't have to look the same. Here, though? Drow. Bam. Whatcha gonna do.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Getting freer with those racial prereqs, aren'tcha, Amph? I remember that it used to be that the only racial prereqs IC would have would be ones you could Stoneblessed your way into. Illumians (Shadow Sentinel) were an interesting choice, since my illumian and your illumian don't have to look the same. Here, though? Drow. Bam. Whatcha gonna do.

    Not complaining, mind you. Merely musing.
    You think your Drow and my Drow have to look the same?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeryr View Post
    Thanks chairman it is as I thought.

    With the HD I was asking if a phase spider that normally has 5 HD would have 8HD due to the wording of spider servant, as every other possible spider servant. Or if only the fiendish monstrous spider is the one with 8HD.
    Only the examples specifically called out as having 8HD, either in the Drow Judicator writeup or within their monster manual (or fiend folio, etc) entry should have it.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    opefuly this time I won't need 50 points of a 32 point buy. *looks at Cieyrin accusingly*
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