Skyrim V: Skyrim

[Grue Bait]

Well...

Spoiler

Show

Guy starting of with experimenting on corpses, then discovers the milk maid who he has killed then reanimated, and discover that she turned into a ghost instead of draugr... He then discovers he enjoys the sensation of her "body" against his and ends up kidnapping and murdering every young woman he can get her hands on turning them into happily compliant sex slave ghosts.

Of course the apocalyptic logs in the cave makes the story more justice than my short summarize...

Yikes. I just got sent into a local falmer cave for mine. Which of course reminded me how much I freakin' hate Chaurus.

[Maxios]

Well...

Spoiler

Show

Guy starting of with experimenting on corpses, then discovers the milk maid who he has killed then reanimated, and discover that she turned into a ghost instead of draugr... He then discovers he enjoys the sensation of her "body" against his and ends up kidnapping and murdering every young woman he can get her hands on turning them into happily compliant sex slave ghosts.

Of course the apocalyptic logs in the cave makes the story more justice than my short summarize...

Which is why when I killed that guy, I did it with numerous arrows to the groin and a warhammer strike there.

[Tergon]

Even when I deliberately play as the most evil bastard I can think of, I still have a few standards because of quests like that. If I see Falmer, I slaughter them down to the very last one because of Frostflow Lighthouse. If I see Forsworn, I leave no survivors because of the bodies of the occasional rape victims you find in the wilderness such as the Redguard girl near Dragontooth Crater. If I see anyone who's managed to enslave or imprison someone, and there's a way to let the victims get their own back, I let them do it.
Yeah, I'll send a beggar flying over the rooftops of a town because I've arbitrarily decided that they were rude to me. Or I'll enter a house, clean out literally every item worth any kind of money and slaughter the occupants because I feel like it might be entertaining. But I have standards, damn it!


As for mods, honestly, I don't have a single one active. I considered downloading some, but I figured there'd definitely be some kind of DLC for Skyrim upcoming; I wanted to see the full limits of the game as it was, and then see how Bethesda patched up their own goofs, before I started snipping and changing at it. Once I have Dawnguard installed and I've played it through, I might try some mods then, but honestly thus far I just don't feel the need to change the game from its original form. I'll do that only when the original game starts feeling like it's not enough.

[Calemyr]

As for mods, honestly, I don't have a single one active. I considered downloading some, but I figured there'd definitely be some kind of DLC for Skyrim upcoming; I wanted to see the full limits of the game as it was, and then see how Bethesda patched up their own goofs, before I started snipping and changing at it. Once I have Dawnguard installed and I've played it through, I might try some mods then, but honestly thus far I just don't feel the need to change the game from its original form. I'll do that only when the original game starts feeling like it's not enough.

See, I just can't understand that mindset. With mods you can remake the game to suit your whim, add new rules, characters, items, abilities... Instead of one admittedly good but static game, you end up with something that is ever new, eternally evolving and shifting from one sort of awesome to another as mods are added and removed in endless permutations. It becomes the kind of game that can only grow old by virtue of the unchanging foundations of the game engine.

Oh, I can understand playing without mods the first time. I did that myself. But I've got 595 hours logged on that game, I'm forced to admit, and that's because every time I play I can make the world different in small but significant ways. I've traveled with a priestess of Akatosh who could turn into a dragon herself when called to meet her brethren. I've traveled the province searching for new and interesting cloaks. I've told the blades to sit on it and spin when they've asked me to kill a loyal ally. I've lived in more homes than a military family. I've shapeshifted into flame atronach and soared in the skies as a dragon. I've made friends with a rather condescending wisp mother in dungeons of Whiterun and forged an army of dwemer constructs. I've seen lycanthropy made into something cool before the name Dawnguard was trademarked, and dragonbone weapons have long since become passe. I have saved the planet as a scythe-wielding farmer, and twisted the fabric of magic in ways I'd once thought impossible.

And more than that, more than that, I've seen the game made better. All those tiny annoyances that stuck in my mind like a splinter can be changed. I can alter the level increase to a more linear rate (faster at the end and slower, so much slower, at first). I can make destruction magic increase in damage based on my destruction skill. I can rock out on the starting menu screen to Dan Bull's Epic Skyrim Rap while the imperial emblem spins in the mist. I can hear the bards in any tavern in the province sing songs of such ethereal beauty that it can bring a tear to even my jaded eye. I can convince Lydia to shut up about burdens, Farengar to be quiet about winterhold, and every freaking person on the planet to pipe down about the spell in my left hand.

This game is very good and very large. With mods it becomes perfection itself and infinite. How could I pass up a chance like this?

[Tergon]

Oh, please don't think I'm saying anything against the mindset of modding the game. I do take a look at those recommended by folks here, and a lot of them look fascinating. My brother-in-law, who I game with regularly, has a few active and has shown them to me and it looks like great fun.

It's just that... when I play the game, I know that I haven't done everything, tried everything. Not really. There's virtually endless combinations to try, to tinker and experiment with and see what comes out the other side. I still feel the joy of trying out a new combination of skills and discovering that the one particular beastie that posed such a terrible threat before can be outmaneuvered or tricked into stepping on a trap trigger plate. I feel no less joy to find that a beatsie I previously rolled over like it wasn't even there has become a terrible threat that now must be outwitted and outmaneuvered because I've set myself a new challenge and suddenly I'm less capable of this particular battle than I thought. And that in itself opens up so much; I duck into a cave I've not seen before because an Ancient Dragon was swooping down on me when I've run short of healing potions, and a new quest waits for me there. Or I leap up onto a new rock formation to dodge the charge of that giant spider, and there I discover a chest filled with goodies and a unique journal from an old adventurer I didn't know could be found there. This game, as it is and as it stands, has a huge amount to offer me even after the 500+ hours that I've logged on it, same as you.

And yes, I'm perfectly aware that you can feel exactly the same thrill with mods active. Please don't think I'm suggesting otherwise!
It's just that there's still so much I've not done, so much I've not seen. And installing a mod before I've done that almost feels like I'm changing the game before I know what it is I'm changing. I can give myself more powerful weapons with a mod - but maybe there's already a more powerful weapon out there I just haven't found yet. I can make enemies more challenging - but it's not only possible but likely that if I explore the caves I've not yet seen I'll stumble across some new challenge that by virtue of monster type, terrain type, or sheer force of numbers, will challenge me greatly.
Even the mods that only add to the game rather than altering it are like this, in my mind. Four mods in particular stuck out for me, addressing things I felt were lacking: Deadly Dragons makes them more challenging at later levels, Werewolf mods make lycanthropy more entertaining, Dragonbone Weapons allow you to smith more, and Craftable Arrows make it far easier to keep yourself supplied with ammunition. And now all of those four are addressed by the new content of Dawnguard, along with so many others. I have no doubt there will be more DLC as well - and who knows what that might address? Mods that I install might not only become redundant, they might spoil the fun of trying something that new content is supposed to make exciting.

I pre-ordered my copy of Skyrim and it arrived in the mail only a day after the game was released globablly. I've played it religiously since then. After all that time I'm perfectly aware that I'm not even close to discovering everything the game can offer me, and now there's new DLC that means there remains even more for me to do! How could I justify taking this and turning it into something else long before I know what I've tried?

Some folks, they're given a meal, and after a few mouthfuls they'll add some sauce to spice the dish up a bit. Me, I finish what's on my plate, let it sit, and decide what I thought of it - and then add sauce for my second helping if I think it needed it. Neither of us is wrong, and you don't miss out on anything by adding that sauce earlier rather than later; hell, maybe the sauce makes it better and I've needlessly deprived myself this whole time. But maybe not. It's just how I choose to do it, that's all.

And like I said, once I've given Dawnguard a crack, I may decide to start adding mods like mad. Certainly there's some great suggestions on this forum for me to try. Just... not yet, that's all. Not yet.

[Avilan the Grey]

Even when I deliberately play as the most evil bastard I can think of, I still have a few standards because of quests like that. If I see Falmer, I slaughter them down to the very last one because of Frostflow Lighthouse. If I see Forsworn, I leave no survivors because of the bodies of the occasional rape victims you find in the wilderness such as the Redguard girl near Dragontooth Crater. If I see anyone who's managed to enslave or imprison someone, and there's a way to let the victims get their own back, I let them do it.
Yeah, I'll send a beggar flying over the rooftops of a town because I've arbitrarily decided that they were rude to me. Or I'll enter a house, clean out literally every item worth any kind of money and slaughter the occupants because I feel like it might be entertaining. But I have standards, damn it!

This guy is the "Honorable version of Dr Doom". His primary concern is to Gain Ultimate Power (tm) and that is why he will put the Wizard College questline on hold when he discovers the possibilities of Dragon Shouts, for example. He is also ruthless, do not suffer fools, and have almost no qualms about killing. But he is not crazy, he wants to make his mark on this world and not destroy it. He will probably be a member of the Dark Brotherhood, but only as a means to an end, he definitely do not actually believe in any of their ideals or anything. He also have a few berserk buttons. People using their power for pleasure or to amass wealth are "Pathetic" and will be disposed of.

Speaking of Mods: Using UFO you find out a few interesting things:

Uthgerd the Unbroken is actually BETTER at One-handed weapons, so I promptly switched her 2-handed sword for a shield and a steel mace.

The two students at the college are wearing each others robes. The Khajit, who's better at Destruction, is wearing a Summoner's robe. The Dunmer girl that is a better Summoner, wears a Destruction robe. I promtly switched them around, of course

Speaking about UFO, I am now limiting myself to TWO followers at a time, that fits the character.

For Silent-Wind it is Janessa and Faendal.

For Alaric it's Brelyna and J'zargo at the moment.

For Ingegard it's so far only Uthgerd. I am thinking of going to Riften with her only to hire Marcurio...

For my beloved Altmer who I can't remember the name of at the moment... She will have Janessa and J'zargo, I think.

[DigoDragon]

Yikes. I just got sent into a local falmer cave for mine. Which of course reminded me how much I freakin' hate Chaurus.

I know! Even when I nudge the difficulty down a bit, they still manage to melt half my face off with that damn poison. So now whenever I go into falmer caves or Dwemer ruins, I'm chanting "Please be pet haters, please be pet haters!"


I'm curious to know if any of you have seen patterns to where dragons like to show up in your game. For me, dragons seem to be attacking just outside Markarth on a weekly basis. Four weeks in a row thus far, almost could time basting a turkey to it.
Outside that the only time I've fought dragons not at their lair was two separate occasions near Riverwood. One of which was IN the village. I'm surprised no one died.

[Krazzman]

Oh man,

tonight I'm going to have some time actually playing skyrim again...
I'm playing on the PC and so far tested one Mod... the one where the locations for the stones of berbenziah, or what they are called, are revealed.

I'm about 77 Hours in, level 46, smithing, lock picking and onehanded 100, heavy armor 99 and block on something 70+. Since my complete Dragonbone armor is...unenchanted wizards are quite a pain in the ass... even frost mages as a nord with the elemental reduce perk for shields.

So far my plan is for the achievments to join the dark brotherhood, further the war and then raise my bounty... maybe reaching level 50 on this way.

Whilst I'm at this I thought about a new character, but since I can't really say what it is that ticks me off regarding the women of skyrim... so I thought about a few Mods for better graphics and stuff. I saw one mod turning all people into mangaistic/japanese versions... that's not quite what I'm searching for.

I seek advice in which mods I should try, that are avaible on steam. Further... what does Moonpath do?

Hope you can help me, if i got the achievments I'm starting a new character, probably a Conjuration, illusion and destruction using lightarmored thief.

[Calemyr]

Oh man,

tonight I'm going to have some time actually playing skyrim again...
I'm playing on the PC and so far tested one Mod... the one where the locations for the stones of berbenziah, or what they are called, are revealed.

I'm about 77 Hours in, level 46, smithing, lock picking and onehanded 100, heavy armor 99 and block on something 70+. Since my complete Dragonbone armor is...unenchanted wizards are quite a pain in the ass... even frost mages as a nord with the elemental reduce perk for shields.

So far my plan is for the achievments to join the dark brotherhood, further the war and then raise my bounty... maybe reaching level 50 on this way.

Whilst I'm at this I thought about a new character, but since I can't really say what it is that ticks me off regarding the women of skyrim... so I thought about a few Mods for better graphics and stuff. I saw one mod turning all people into mangaistic/japanese versions... that's not quite what I'm searching for.

I seek advice in which mods I should try, that are avaible on steam. Further... what does Moonpath do?

Hope you can help me, if i got the achievments I'm starting a new character, probably a Conjuration, illusion and destruction using lightarmored thief.

On female remodels, my personal favorite is the Slim Clothed variant of CBBE. I don't like the standard version because it makes women (especially strong women like Lydia or Mjoll) stupidly top-heavy. Besides simply being better constructed than the vanilla model, CBBE has more consistent texturing than other replacers (several have minimal neck seam) and a stronger representation in armors, including tasteful ones, like Triss's armor from Witcher 2, which comes in a lot of color options and simply looks like practical adventure wear. (Be warned, though. Practically any body replacer mod (and most of the armors for them) are decidedly not work safe, which is an absolute shame. At least Steam doesn't permit such crap, so you can get CBBE Slim Clothed from there without the garbage.)

Moonpath is a land extender that adds a path to Elseweyr, as I understand it. Great if you're interested in Khajiit, and apparently very well made, but not really a mod I've explored.

As for your new character, that seems fairly plausible. You won't see ridiculously high power, but you'll find a lot more utility.

* 50 illusion can get you quiet casting, allowing you to place a rune, bind weapons, or summon minions from stealth. There's also a mod that allows you to sneak attack with spells, though it never really worked well for me.

* Destruction (without mods) doesn't increase in power outside of the Augment Element perks, but skill and mastery perks reduce cost, allowing you to use them more effectively. Basically destruction skill increases your potential damage by allowing you to get more spells off for the same cost, which works well in crowds, but not against bosses.

* The Archmage's Robe (University guild line) and Diadem of the Savant (Shalidor's Maze in Labyrinthian) reduce the cost of all magic by 10-15% each, which is very handy. The Archmage's Robe and Mask of Morokei (University guild line) have greatly increased magicka regen, which is also very good for a multi-disciplinary mage, although Morokei isn't really compatible with the hooded variation of the Archmage's Robe.

* Bound weapons are quite powerful given that they're weightless and have effectively limitless enchants on them. With the right perks they can rival daedric weapons and have infinite soul trap and dismiss daedra enchants. The bow in particular is powerful and comes with free (and effective) ammunition. They cannot be improved, however, via blacksmithing. On the other hand, if you're going unarmored, that means an entire skill and perks you don't have to have up front to be effective.

* Illusion is handy, but the level caps on the emotion-manipulation spells can get rather frustrating.

[Krazzman]

On female remodels, my personal favorite is the Slim Clothed variant of CBBE. I don't like the standard version because it makes women (especially strong women like Lydia or Mjoll) stupidly top-heavy. Besides simply being better constructed than the vanilla model, CBBE has more consistent texturing than other replacers (several have minimal neck seam) and a stronger representation in armors, including tasteful ones, like Triss's armor from Witcher 2, which comes in a lot of color options and simply looks like practical adventure wear. (Be warned, though. Practically any body replacer mod (and most of the armors for them) are decidedly not work safe, which is an absolute shame. At least Steam doesn't permit such crap, so you can get CBBE Slim Clothed from there without the garbage.)

Wow, the first screen that pops up is from caliente and the head of the person shown in the picture is just... too big o.O. Any other texture stuff to make skyrim look better?

My settings are High Medium High high using 8 samples in both antialising and that entropic thing. But if I remember correctly there were some mods presented here, how safe are they?

[Avilan the Grey]

I don't do body mods because I have yet not found a single one that don't give horrible neck seams or badly matched face colors and body colors.

[Calemyr]

Wow, the first screen that pops up is from caliente and the head of the person shown in the picture is just... too big o.O. Any other texture stuff to make skyrim look better?

My settings are High Medium High high using 8 samples in both antialising and that entropic thing. But if I remember correctly there were some mods presented here, how safe are they?

Most of them are pretty safe, especially those from Steam, because the way the steam mods work they're easy to remove if you don't like them. Or are you looking for specific "safe" suggestions?

A few of my favorites:
UFO (Ultimate Follower Overhaul) -This is one of the most accurately named mods I've ever seen. It fixes the follower system in so many ways (both vanilla and modded followers) it's not even funny. See what their skills are, teach them spells or convince them to forget all the spells they know, turn all their "iconic" gear playable, so that they can be removed (including that blasted follower's bow), get them to ride horses with you, allow them to dual wield (including spells), and even recruit up to 15 at a time. Absolutely glorious.

Midas Magic - Not perfectly balanced, perhaps, but it expands your magic options in several very useful ways. Bound daggers and pickaxes, new angles on destruction spells, old spells recast for the new system, a boatload of summons, and even a few shape-shifting abilities. The spells are also not exactly free or easy - finding a book with the right recipe and then finding the right ingredients is a far more interesting way to earn a spell than just buying it.

Jaysus Swords - All kinds of awesome for those with a taste for the edged. Has a little of everything, from the simplistic to the ornate, all of which is well designed and fits the game quite nicely. Not for the hammer crowd or the archer, but quite good. The hunter's knife looks a lot like the ones used in the lockpicking minigame, which is a nice touch.

Build Your Own House - Not exactly what the name suggests. Takes the ruins of Lucky's cabin (near the Abandoned Prison on the west edge of the Rift) and allows you to rebuild it - not with gold, but with good, honest labor (through chopping firewood, mining, and hunting). Every expansion you can add is your choice and the inside of the house is available in several themes (hunter/warrior, mage/alchemist, thief/treasure hunter, assassin/horror fan), as is the basement, and there is the option of creating a hidden lair (press a button in the basement to slide the bookshelf away) that can be themed for werewolves, vampires, or (and this is recent and cool) dovahkiin/draugr. I've had a fair bit of crashes entering/exiting the basement, but the rest of it is very stable and the whole thing just feels like a house you earn rather than buy.

Interesting NPCs - Just exploring this one, but it's really interesting. Adds about 80 npcs (50 if you use the voiced-only like I did) that have custom-written dialogue and, possibly, voicing. Few of them are actual recruitable allies (10 at the moment, and I've only found 1), but all of them bring a unique perspective to the table. The voice acting I've seen is quite good, albeit obviously amateur, and the writing is quite good. The follower I've found so far, Zora Fair-child, is a lot like Mjoll - sweet, talkative, and dangerous, although she's quite disfigured due to scars, particularly a hand shaped burn mark across her face.

Stopping to chat with these people is a joy, be it the assassin-with-a-heart who betrayed the Dark Brotherhood to spare a little girl, the horker stew-loving gladiator who refused to become grand champion because he had moral issues with killing beasts for sport (as opposed to survival), the very outspoken priestess of Dibella who only wears the robes because they justify her real interests, the soft-spoken librarian in training who fears her superior will never retire, or the arrogant but non-hostile wisp mother who hides in the ratways beneath the Whiterun dungeon. There's a lot of new people added and they're all pretty interesting.

I don't do body mods because I have yet not found a single one that don't give horrible neck seams or badly matched face colors and body colors.

That's absolutely fair and a major factor for me as well. Fortunately CBBE has some good blended skins (neck seam reducers) that make the line negligible. It's only a downside that such talent seems wasted on tasteless matters.

Of course, there's also the problem with the Creation Kit where modifying anyone's face can turn their face ridiculously dark and featureless. Fortunately there's a trick for that: Ctrl+F4 while selecting the creature you modified exports the generated texture files, which you can then delete and then you get in-game what you see in-kit.

[Abscondcrow]

Gawd this makes me angry. Can't install any mods . HOWEVER! I've not even finished the game once (not even quarter way, I bet), so I'ma keep going. Just finished the civil war questline on Ulfrics side. I have to say, I don't regret the side I picked. At the battle for Whiterun, the speech from the stormcloak officer (who's name I keep forgetting) sent goosebumps down my spine. It honestly felt more epic than killing a dragon for the first time.

Maybe that's just me?

I'm slightly at a loss as what to do next though. I'm about to hit level 19, don't want to do the assasins guild quests because of "leveled" items, same with the Thane quests. I've done The Heart of Dibella, The book of Love and Unfathomable Depths. I have my smithing up to 60, and my heavy armor to about 50 I think, both of which are getting expensive to increase, as I buy my matts for smithing, and am paying Farkas for training with heavy armor. I'm wondering if the price resets if I find a different trainer? I'm gonna see.

In the meantime, I'm thinking perhaps the companions quests, as from what i can see, they don't give any levelled item that I'd want to keep, plus, werewolf.

[Calemyr]

Gawd this makes me angry. Can't install any mods . HOWEVER! I've not even finished the game once (not even quarter way, I bet), so I'ma keep going. Just finished the civil war questline on Ulfrics side. I have to say, I don't regret the side I picked. At the battle for Whiterun, the speech from the stormcloak officer (who's name I keep forgetting) sent goosebumps down my spine. It honestly felt more epic than killing a dragon for the first time.

Maybe that's just me?

I'm slightly at a loss as what to do next though. I'm about to hit level 19, don't want to do the assasins guild quests because of "leveled" items, same with the Thane quests. I've done The Heart of Dibella, The book of Love and Unfathomable Depths. I have my smithing up to 60, and my heavy armor to about 50 I think, both of which are getting expensive to increase, as I buy my matts for smithing, and am paying Farkas for training with heavy armor. I'm wondering if the price resets if I find a different trainer? I'm gonna see.

In the meantime, I'm thinking perhaps the companions quests, as from what i can see, they don't give any levelled item that I'd want to keep, plus, werewolf.

Most of the guilds are interesting (although I just can't get excited about the bard's college). The Companions are definitely one of the best, for all that their individuals are often comically ill-made (Farkas is classed as a blacksmith, a blacksmith, and light-armored Aela wears heavy Ancient Nord gear as her iconic equipment). You get a number of fairly interesting allies, including Aela, and gain access to the Skyforge's hidden features to create Nord Hero weapons. Werewolf is kind of a mixed bag - your power is fairly good and the totem powers are handy, but the inability to loot and the utter lack of armor makes you a glass cannon, and everyone but followers will go hostile on sight. Still, it's quite fun.

[Avilan the Grey]

Gawd this makes me angry. Can't install any mods . HOWEVER! I've not even finished the game once (not even quarter way, I bet), so I'ma keep going. Just finished the civil war questline on Ulfrics side. I have to say, I don't regret the side I picked. At the battle for Whiterun, the speech from the stormcloak officer (who's name I keep forgetting) sent goosebumps down my spine. It honestly felt more epic than killing a dragon for the first time.

Maybe that's just me?

Hmmm I have never heard it, since I refuse to betray the greatest Nord alive, the Jarl of Whiterun. Who is also a personal friend.

[Calemyr]

Hmmm I have never heard it, since I refuse to betray the greatest Nord alive, the Jarl of Whiterun. Who is also a personal friend.

Preach it, brodda.

[The_Jackal]

After I took Balgruuf's seat in Whiterun, I found him cowering in the basement of the Blue Palace in Solitude, sulking in a corner. The greatest Nord alive isn't alive anymore.

[Lord Loss]

Hmmm I have never heard it, since I refuse to betray the greatest Nord alive, the Jarl of Whiterun. Who is also a personal friend.

Amen. I did the quest on Ulfric's side, then said, nope, can't do it. Reloaded a save and brought the Jagged Crown to Tullius.

[Goosefeather]

Werewolf is kind of a mixed bag - your power is fairly good and the totem powers are handy, but the inability to loot and the utter lack of armor makes you a glass cannon, and everyone but followers will go hostile on sight. Still, it's quite fun.

*Everyone but followers and wolves

[Tergon]

Hmmm I have never heard it, since I refuse to betray the greatest Nord alive, the Jarl of Whiterun. Who is also a personal friend.

To be fair, he has to share that title with the equal place-holder, Brunwulf Free-Winter.

Although if we are being fair, I've slowly come around from the idea of Ulfric himself being that big of a douchebag. You ever listen to his little talk the first time you ever enter the Palace of the Kings? And I don't mean just let the interruptable conversation play out while you look around at stuff, actually listen to it?
Because I did, and honestly, what it seems to boil down to is that Ulfric is saying, "I'm a soldier, and I fought for this cause, and I suffered for this cause, and I watched my brothers die for this cause, and I've come too far to let all those deaths be in vain." Now is it just me or does that seem entirely goddamn reasonable? He seems geniunely reluctant to attack anyone who's not openly declaring him an enemy, and for a guy who supposedly loathes anyone who's not a Nord, he has absolutely no hesitation in letting you join the cause. It's Galmar Stone-Fist who openly says you look weak and that he doubts that you're capable, even looking astonished when you survive the trial of the Ice Wraiths.
Honestly it's the people of Skyrim and the various Jarls who seem to be the racist and/or xenophobic types. And Ulfric's fighting a war, so he damn well needs their support, which means telling them what they want to hear. If what they want to hear is "Skyrim for the Nords!" then that's one of the sacrifices he'd have to make.

Balgruuf and Brunwulf are still the most decent people in Skyrim, no question. And Ulfric has done plenty of awful things, plus made huge plays for personal gain. It's just that despite this, I can't see Ulfric as the xenophobic monster I used to once I started paying attention to the things he actually says and does, as opposed to what everyone else is saying about him. If nothing else, he's certainly no worse than Tullius in my mind.

[Milo v3]

In addition the shout he does know shows that he would be an excelent warleader.

To use a shout, you have to have amazingly perfect understanding of each word. He has Fus Ro Dah.
So he has perfect understanding of Force, Balance, and Push.
He would know exactly how many soldiers for each battle (Force), which types of soldiers are going to be needed to fill all the roles (Balance), and how to get his enemies to act hastly (Push).

Add that with his actually good morales and I see no reason not to join the stormcloaks.

[Beowulf DW]

To be fair, he has to share that title with the equal place-holder, Brunwulf Free-Winter.

Although if we are being fair, I've slowly come around from the idea of Ulfric himself being that big of a douchebag. You ever listen to his little talk the first time you ever enter the Palace of the Kings? And I don't mean just let the interruptable conversation play out while you look around at stuff, actually listen to it?
Because I did, and honestly, what it seems to boil down to is that Ulfric is saying, "I'm a soldier, and I fought for this cause, and I suffered for this cause, and I watched my brothers die for this cause, and I've come too far to let all those deaths be in vain." Now is it just me or does that seem entirely goddamn reasonable? He seems geniunely reluctant to attack anyone who's not openly declaring him an enemy, and for a guy who supposedly loathes anyone who's not a Nord, he has absolutely no hesitation in letting you join the cause. It's Galmar Stone-Fist who openly says you look weak and that he doubts that you're capable, even looking astonished when you survive the trial of the Ice Wraiths.
Honestly it's the people of Skyrim and the various Jarls who seem to be the racist and/or xenophobic types. And Ulfric's fighting a war, so he damn well needs their support, which means telling them what they want to hear. If what they want to hear is "Skyrim for the Nords!" then that's one of the sacrifices he'd have to make.

Balgruuf and Brunwulf are still the most decent people in Skyrim, no question. And Ulfric has done plenty of awful things, plus made huge plays for personal gain. It's just that despite this, I can't see Ulfric as the xenophobic monster I used to once I started paying attention to the things he actually says and does, as opposed to what everyone else is saying about him. If nothing else, he's certainly no worse than Tullius in my mind.

I once supported Ulfric, but between the Markarth incident and the blind eye he has toward the troubles of the Dunmer, I can't think of him as a decent person anymore. It was a bit of a moral quandary for me. Do I like the idea of empires? No. Do I like the idea of religious persecution? No. But I can't put someone like Ulfric on the throne in good conscience, especially not after the way he used the Thu'um to further his own agenda. Additionally, although I can't stand the idea of one country being subservient to another, I admit that the empire encourages a certain tolerance in its provinces that I find commendable.

Anyway, that's how I finally got over the moral grey area of Legion vs. Stormcloaks.

Oh, about being a werewolf now that I have Dawnguard: it rocks. I never spent much time as a werewolf before, but with the new perks, it's pretty fun, and I an vastly more powerful in certain areas of combat. Going after vampires in werewolf form is especially fun. I see those vampire acting all smug with their hunter in the night image, and then *bam!* they get hit by the real hunter in the darkness.

[Milo v3]

and the blind eye he has toward the troubles of the Dunmer, I can't think of him as a decent person anymore.

I think it was implied somewhere that the only reason he doesn't help them is because they don't help him while he is in war and he needs to focus on the battle.
This is definately not a good reason not help them, but not evil or questionable.

[Beowulf DW]

I think it was implied somewhere that the only reason he doesn't help them is because they don't help him while he is in war and he needs to focus on the battle.
This is definately not a good reason not help them, but not evil or questionable.

I didn't say he was evil, I just meant to say that I don't think he's the kind of man that ought to be leading a nation. There are many admirable qualities about him, but I wouldn't want to put a crown on his head. And since he refuses to back down on that issue, my Dragonborn decided that Ulfric would have to be stopped.

[Tergon]

I saw it in a slightly different way. The people of Windhelm clearly despise the Dunmer for the most part. And there's a hell of a lot of folk around Skyrim who have it in for beast races and elves. Whatever else may be true of Ulfric right now, the fact is that if the people of Skyrim turn against him, he'll lose the war. So if the people of Skyrim will support him so long as he puts Nords first, he doesn't really have a choice in the matter. And outside that, all we have for the negative are people who say that Ulfric isn't a nice person based upon things he's done in the past, or things they don't feel he's doing right.
What we do have is his treatment of the Dovahkiin. Even before the Greybeards declare you to be such, you can walk into the Palace of Kings and stand in front of him. You can be a Khajiit, who legally can't be in the city; you can be an Altmer, his hated enemy; you can be an Argonian, treated lower than dirt; you can even be a Dunmer who he's specifically said to hate. The only knoweldge he has is that you were there when he was ambushed and nearly killed by the Imperials, and are at best a criminal. At worst, Ralof might have even reported that you were seen fighting at the side of the Imperials and cut your way through a half-dozen Stormcloaks to escape.
Nobody could fault Ulfric for throwing you out, or even ordering the guards to kill you for being an Imperial spy. Instead, he's willing to give you a chance to prove yourself, and if you do? No matter who or what you are, by the end of the war he'll consider you one of his most trusted officers. At no point does anything else enter into it. The only proof we have of Ulfric's racism and xenophobia are second-hand reports from others, easily justified by the fact that Ulfric desperately needs to gain support from the people of Skyrim who are racist and xenophobic. Beyond that he's actually extraordinarily open-minded and willing to trust you despite some powerfully good reasons not to.

None of this makes Ulfric a good guy, exactly. He's made some questionable calls, done some questionable things, and there's a strong argument that says cutting Skyrim off from the Empire is a terrible long-term move in the battle against the Thalmor. But none of that makes him a villian, either.

[Abscondcrow]

Well I've decided what I'm going to be doing next. Namely, getting the deadric artifacts I want for my build.
These are: Black star, Mace of Malog Bal, Mehrunes' Razor, Spell Breaker,.

First I'm going for the Mace of Malog ball, since I already started the quest.
Then Black star.
Then I'm going to do all the companion quests.
Get smithing high enough that I can do deadric smithing. get spell breaker, get mehrunes razor.

Let's see how it goes. Wish me luck!

[Avilan the Grey]

I am still bad at two-handed melee combat. At the moment though my damage output is so high that if I strike first, I win (even a heavy armored opponent with a shield will go down on one knee if I power-attack him or her, and a second power attack kills them).

Also... oddities: Suddenly random people on the road are hostile to me. I don't remember doing anything to cause that. I got killed by a group of Vigilants of Stendarr, and when I reloaded instead there were the nobleman, his wife and the single bodyguard going to the wedding in Solitude. The bodyguard attacked me on sight, just like the Vigilants did, but this group was much easier...

I then went to Witherun and had to spend time in Jail for murder. Weird. Hopefully no more civilians will be attacking me.

[Tergon]

This may sound really stupid, but are you're sure you're not a vampire? I totally did that once, didn't notice until I was two days short on feeding and people were commenting on me as I walked past. 'S what I get for not listening to NPCs.

[Avilan the Grey]

This may sound really stupid, but are you're sure you're not a vampire? I totally did that once, didn't notice until I was two days short on feeding and people were commenting on me as I walked past. 'S what I get for not listening to NPCs.

I am sure; I have not met any vampires yet with this character.

[Divayth Fyr]

What we do have is his treatment of the Dovahkiin.

Which is a gameplay mechanism - so anyone could join the Stormcloaks without problems.