Choosing a starting class for a spell sniper build.

[meto30]

Hello, it's been a long time since I posted in these forums, good to be back.

I'm designing a rather specific spell sniper build, which operates on three principles: sneak attack with ray spells, sacrifice as little spell progression as possible, and not dependent on party members. The basic idea is that this is a mage/assassin style character that always tries to sneak into position, bombard a particular target with horribly high damage (and do so quickly, using means such as the delay spell metamagic feat), and run away before getting caught. As such, it is very unlikely that this character will have allies in the vicinity when he/she strikes. Stealth is very important, second only to the basic principle of sneak attacking with a ray or a touch spell.

That said, there are some special circumstances that I must take into consideration as well. First of all, I'm not a player in my campaign, but rather the DM - this character is a high level henchman. As he is meant to be a challenging (but rather fun) obstacle to overcome, I want him to have very specifically defined strengths and weaknesses, so covering all bases in not only unneccessary, it's also undesirable. Also, he is rather very limited in the amount of wealth he'll be carrying. Scrolls with heavily metamagicked spells on them is about the upper limit of equipment I'm willing to place on him.

Right now, I'm thinking of the following build, undecided on what starting class to use. I'm willing to look into different builds if it works better for my purposes, and even if it doesn't I'd be very happy to look at some other interesting designs to try in future adventures (or campaigns). By the way, we're playing in Forgotten Realms, so I'd like to stay away form setting-specific classes and feats.

Current build:

• spellthief 1 (or rogue, either way using a feat to raise effective caster level, this is to get the sneak attack for spellwarp sniper) ;
• some base spellcasting class that gives full caster progression, upto 3rd lvl arcane spells to qualify for the spellwarp sniper; currently looking at battle sorcerer to gain access to light armor.
• spellwarp sniper (complete scoundrel)
• (optional) arcane trickster

comments: As spellwarp sniper is maxed at 5, and I haven't decided just how powerful this char will have to be yet, I might want arcane trickster levels as well. However, the char won't qualify unless I rule that sudden raystrike from spellwarp sniper stacks with sneak attack for this purpose. According to our metagame rules I am authorized to do this on my own, but usually when I do so I ask for my players' opinions; however in this case I'd rather not because the sniper is supposed to be a surprise. So I'd like input on wether making that ruling would be unfair or not, how the players might react, etc in addition to ideas on the build.

[Zilzmaer]

If you don't care terribly much about versatility (which it sounds like you don't), Warmage could be good. It doesn't have to worry about picking spells but gets a weaker list, also gets light armor, and gets Int to damage with spells.

I think it would be perfectly fine to rule that way. I would find it difficult to believe anyone who accepts anything but pure, undiluted RAW would have a problem with it.

That said, someone is inevitably going to suggest using Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion to extend the class abilities beyond fifth level. This I do disagree with; I think you should get the abilities stated for sixth (or later) level, which is none.

[meto30]

I did consider warmage, but without access to illusions and abjurations, I doubt this character can sneak in anywhere with any real protection, much less lairs of paranoid PCs. Invisibility (and greater invisibility if accessible) is nearly a must, not to mention the always handy nondetection. If there is a way to solve this without resorting to magic items, I don't know it.

The principal characteristic of this planned henchman is that he sneak attacks with spells, possibly dealing enough damage to put out most unprotected characters in one hit.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just skip Arcane Trickster, and go with Unseen Seer instead. You'll probably already have Practiced Spellcaster so its caster level penalty to non-divinations will be collaterally negated. You can actually grab Arcane Trickster after a single level of Unseen Seer if desired, but I'd get at least two levels in it for Silent Spell.

I'd start the build with Psychic Rogue, and get a Dorje (wand) of Chameleon for +10 Hide for 10 minutes at a time per 15 gp charge. A Wand of Camouflage (SpC) via UMD for an additional +10 Hide for the same duration and cost is a little too good to pass up. Give him the feat Darkstalker (LoM) and opponents will still have to Spot check vs his unfairly high Hide to notice him with nonvisual senses that would normally automatically detect a sneaking opponent. With the spell Shadow Form (SpC) he'll get enough concealment to always hide, and its Hide bonus stacks with those two +10's, plus all the other benefits it gives.

A build like (Psychic) Rogue 1/ Martial Wizard 4/ Unseen Seer 1/ Spellwarp Sniper 5/ Unseen Seer 9 (reduced to the desired challenge level) would be fairly standard. Make him a race that can take Able Learner, such as Human, Illumian, or Underfolk (RoD), otherwise use Whisper Gnome as it's the strongest choice mechanically.

He should have someone cast a (Heightened, Extended) Deeper Darkness on a pendant he wears around his neck. He can put it in his mouth to block the darkness effect, and when needed he can 'drop' it as a free action by spitting it out. It will return to its place hanging against his chest and plunge the room into darkness, overpowering any light spells of lower spell level such as Daylight and enabling him to hide/escape.

[meto30]

snip

That is... an interesting build, I'll keep that for later use.

Sadly, I feel that particular build would be... far too overboard for the purposes of this character. Too... cheesy, perhaps. No offence intended. Besides, the organization that employes him (had trained him as well) is rather very low on psychics, and as there's already a major psychic power group in the campaign right now I'd like to prevent my players getting confused over who is attacking them.

Thanks again for your input. Also, Unseen Seer is an option I had not considered yet (forgot about it), thanks for reminding me of that class. I'll look into it right away.

[killianh]

some good feats would be Split Ray, Chain Spell, Quicken Spell, Fell Drain, Darkstalker, Residual Metamagic, Arcane Thesis to name a few.

for classes I would say that Chameleon, unseen seer are good PrC with Sorc focusing on illusion and evocation (essential more versatility for a ray mage)

I'm not sure if it would count at Cheese but adding 3 level Binder from ToM then taking Anima Mage to get the bonus binding powers (in which you would use Andromalius for some rogue stuff) and casting advancement every level (to boost and increase amount of rays)

[gorfnab]

Here is a handbook that may be of some use: Sneak Attacking Spellcasters

[Azoth]

The shifty eyed cousin of god handbook is rather bleh.

I recomend invisible spell metamagic. +0 adjustment to remove all visual displays of your spells. So you don't give away your position when sniping. There is the always popular twinned, maximized, empowered route. Just have to get the appropriat metamagic reducers so it is castable.

I have to second Unseen Seer. You get some SA progression, and with advanced learning you can pick up sniper's shot (no more 30ft limit on SA), Hunter's eye (bonus SA dice based on caster level), and another handy divination of your choice.

For gear gotta recommend bracers of murder, colar of umbral metamorphosis, and whatever that bracer is that adds 1d6 SA and +2 initiative. Everyone loves a world of hurt and going first.

Cloud of knives is a great free action sneak attack a round. Phantom battle is a great spell that gives auto flanking per its description for gauranteed SA in a 10ft radius if they fail will saves. Control light and shadow around himself will give him full concealment from return barages...just get a way to see in magical darkness.

[kardar233]

I'd consider using Sorceror as the casting class; sure, every casting level lost hurts more (though if you play a Kobold you can recoup one or three), but you get what's possibly the best Spellwarp spell: Wings of Flurry, especially if you're dipping Spellthief and getting Master Spellthief. d6/level Force damage is really nice when uncapped with some CL boosting, and you get a No Save Just Daze afterwards. Immunity to Daze is rare and immunity to Force is nearly non-existant.

[meto30]

Thank you all for your input. The unseen seer seems a very decent choice overall, if I decide to go over level 12 with this guy then I'll be going for it. The prerequisites are a bit difficult to manage, especially the sense motive bit, I'm already short of skill points as it is - I might have to knock down some of the flavor to make room for it. As for the feats, too much metamagic will be difficult to handle, since I'm not comfortable with dipping a mid-importance NPC in incantator (it is rather lore-unfriendly, in my opinion), but I'll see what I can do. As for the items, please remember that this is an NPC the PCs are meant to overcome, and if things go as I expect (to the great misfortune of the PCs) then they'll not see it coming; if I make him too powerful he'd do way more damage than something my party is prepared to handle.

The combat style I'm visualizing is more of an alpha striker, a terrible barrage of spells concentrated on a single target in a single round, and running away in the next. This guy is paid and trained to handle adventurers the villain isn't confident in taking out all at once, and has no incentive to do more damage than he is told to do. Although, if I was to go unseen seer, I might rewrite fluff to be more in line with the class.


EDIT: The fluff rewrite I mentioned above is this: I was thinking of a more of a trigger happy mindset, rather cocky in attitude because he thinks nothing can stop him from making his designated kill. He sticks to a constant routine which didn't change all his life because it never failed, and so it would come as a shock to him if the PCs manage to foil him. The Unseen Seer's focus on divination and careful observation gives the impression of a more cautious personality, more like the stoic assassin archetype than the arrogant hit man I am looking at now. The main implication of such a fluff change is that I'd have to role-play him more carefully, which means he'll prepare more, which in turn means the PCs wil have a much harder time defeating him. I don't want him to be too much of a challenge. His horrible damage numbers will be enough for my purposes, I think. Or maybe not. My party is evolving very rapidly, after all...

[meto30]

Here is a handbook that may be of some use: Sneak Attacking Spellcasters

Thanks many times for the link! I'm reading it now.

[meto30]

After a long consideration of current party average level and their progress in the quest, I've decided to make him either 11th or 12th level, with the following build:

spellthief 1 / sorcerer 6 / spellwarp sniper 5

flaws & traits: vulnerable, aggressive
feats: improved initiative, Blooded (Player's Guide to Faerun, regional feat), craven, master spellthief, point blank shot, empower spell, precise shot, sudden maximize
magic items: none, other than a Metamagic Rod of Silent Spells. This and this alone is to be the party's loot if they manage to capture or kill him. And as we're tracking equipment hitpoints (using an automated program developed in house), even that can be destroyed if the party bombards him with spells.

Basic combat tactic is to get in position using invisibility (if possible, lay in wait in some place the PCs are bound to visit or pass through), and wait for the target to appear. Once target is in sight, bring out the rod of silent spells, cast greater invisibilty, cast a prepatory spell (usually arcane sight to see if for some reason target is protected, but truestrike is available), and then strike with an empowered, sudden-maximized scorching ray. Sneak attack range is 60' thanks to ray mastery (spellwarp5), so if circumstances are favorable an additional 3d6+12 can be done; and if scorching ray is problematic (for instance when target is expected to have fire resistance) lightning bolt or cone of cold can be substituted using spellwarp. Since he is employed to deal with adventurers that has proven resilient to usual evocations (in game mechanics, those that allow reflex saves), he is very unlikely to use his spells in non-spellwarped manner. Whether the attempt fails or succeeds, he teleports away to a predetermined safe spot, preferably one of his master's hideouts which are protected with Private Sanctum. If the particular hit required him to sneak into a zone protected against dimensional travel, then he'd have to sneak out the hard way. He charges extra for such jobs but rarely rejects one outright.

I've looked into the Unseen Seer option, but decided against it for multiple reasons, some fluff, but one reason being that such a well-informed enemy would be far more of a threat to the PCs than I intend to introduce at this stage. Also, I believe my party had enough of someone spying on them in the previous story arc (they were pitted against greater doppelgangers... )

EDIT:That said, only one of the PCs actually has hitpoints below the sniper's minimum spell damage. And two of them can't be one-shotted unless he lands a critical.

EDIT2: The high initiative modifier (+10) makes it easier for him to escape.

[Psyren]

1) Scorching Ray, Lightning Bolt and Cone of Cold all have the same problem - they're subject to SR/immunity, including Globe of Invulnerability (in the case of the first two.) What sources do you have available for other spells? Do you have Spell Compendium for instance?

2) Corollary: Have you read this?

3) If you want a cheaper alternative (slot-wise) than Imp. Invisibility as a sneak attack vehicle, use Blink.

[meto30]

1) Scorching Ray, Lightning Bolt and Cone of Cold all have the same problem - they're subject to SR/immunity, including Globe of Invulnerability (in the case of the first two.) What sources do you have available for other spells? Do you have Spell Compendium for instance?

2) Corollary: Have you read this?

3) If you want a cheaper alternative (slot-wise) than Imp. Invisibility as a sneak attack vehicle, use Blink.

Thanks for the link! I bookmarked it for later use - it is sure to come in handy in the future.

I do have spell compendium, however I'd rather stick to core on spells, especially for short-term use NPCs such as this one. As I have placed a stranglehold on spell acquisition for non-core sources on players (fluff rationale: those spells are either not available in the continent or kept secret by select organizations) it wouldn't do to have them widely available to NPCs. Of course, seeing as he is employed by the Twisted Rune, he might have access to such advanced spells, but then again, he is still a C-class NPC. The PCs are unlikely to even learn his name.

My rationale for spell selection is that Greater Invisibility is needed not as much for the sneak attack, but for the passive protection it provides: this hitman takes the concept of glass cannon to the extreme, and he cannot afford to be counterattacked. Blink allows PCs to see where he is after the attack (as the ordinary invisibility breaks down) and thus he will be subject to dispels and all other sorts of measures if he somehow fails to make his escape in the following round. Greater Invisibility allows him to move away, possibly out of sight (so see invisibility won't help) and opening other options of escape. Besides, it's more in line with his style.

Also, if a target is somehow defended beyond his ability to overcome, he will retreat and come back some other time better prepared. Or better yet, come when the target isn't so well defended. Being under the effect of a globe of invulnerability is a prime example - the presence of the globe means the target is aware of a threat to his life, which precisely means he needs to retreat and rethink his approach.

Finally, he is meant to be defeated by the PCs. I wasn't confident of their preparedness against an unseen seer before, and I'm not so sure about SR-penetrating optimized blaster-sniper either.

Anyways, thanks for the input, Psyren! I appreciate your help


PS: On the other hand, now that you mention it, they all would work perfectly precisely because my party is not adequately prepared against sudden spell strikes. Hm, maybe I should nudge them in the proper direction before disaster ensues...

PSS: I am currently looking at the spell list provide through the link, seeing if I could do anything better... but most of them are problemetic because the hitman practically gets only a single round to make attacks before he has to retreat, and he has little means of making multiple in one since he's a sorcerer.

[Psyren]

Ah, I missed the fact that this is a henchman. In that case yes, you wouldn't want to optimize him too heavily since he's supposed to lose. And PCs rarely have SR as well, though Globe (even Lesser Globe) can still hose him pretty effectively.

Be wary though - one Glitterdust and it's lights out.

[meto30]

Ah, I missed the fact that this is a henchman. In that case yes, you wouldn't want to optimize him too heavily since he's supposed to lose. And PCs rarely have SR as well, though Globe (even Lesser Globe) can still hose him pretty effectively.

Be wary though - one Glitterdust and it's lights out.

Oh yeah, was forgetting about glitterdust. HFS once used it to great effect, revealing 6 assassins around him at once with a single dose on his own tile. Hm, a spellblade with immunity to glitterdust might work, but that would be too expensive to place on him... as glitterdust is a cheap and low-level answer to invisibility, realistically this hitman would have to be prepared against it. How to do so, I wonder? hm.....

His primary asset is in the unexpectedness of his strike, so the window of vulnerability he needs to actually protect himself in would be between his alpha strike and his escape. He already has a mechanism in place, namely his high initiative modifier (+2 from DEX, +2 from Blooded, +2 from aggressive, +4 from improved initiative) but that is primarily based on luck... but then again, game mechanics are unknown to world inhabitants and thus he would not know he is depending on luck, but rather his quick reflexes. Hm.... but still, glitterdust must be dealt with. Darkness would work in normal situations, but he needs to be unlocatable, not merely invisible. ... I'm stuck with using dimension door or teleport to make a quick escape, rather than try to deal with it. Perhaps this is for the best - it gives the PCs a rather good chance at capturing or slaying him.

PS: I've checked their character sheets, and found to my sorrow that the party wizard doesn't have glitterdust in his spellbook since conjuration is prohibited. ...Um...

[Azoth]

For 18k you can give him a +1 eager warning dagger for +7 initiative. Anthoer +2 from a burnt out luck blade for 22k. +5 for casting neverskitter during the initiative round. So for 40k and 1 spell slot hello Initiative of 24. Outside celerity/special dread commando builds you won't get too much higher a modifier.

[Andorax]

FWIW...

1) In lieu of gear, he can have an ally (nowhere near the fact) who heaps prep spells onto him until he'd glow under a detect magic like a bonfire.

2) Martial Study (at any level, anything Shadow Hand) and Martial Stance (at 12th, Assassin's Stance) is a feat-based way to tack another 2d6 sneak attack onto the build, no other class levels needed.

[Psyren]

PS: I've checked their character sheets, and found to my sorrow that the party wizard doesn't have glitterdust in his spellbook since conjuration is prohibited. ...Um...

There's still See Invisibility at the same level, and a bat familiar or the right summon can help you locate the enemy.

[kardar233]

If you're wanting to nova, look at Arcane Spellsurge (DrM?) and Arcane Fusion (no idea where) for multispelling.

[meto30]

There's still See Invisibility at the same level, and a bat familiar or the right summon can help you locate the enemy.

See invisibility still means a spot check needs to be made against the hitman's hide, and if I remember correctly that's a personal spell. All of the party spellcasters have abysymal spot, so I find it unlikely that they'll spot him that easily. Use of a summon or other creative means is something I'd very much like to see my party do, so I'll leave that intentionally open.

As I've said in the OP, I'm not willing to place any gear more gear on the hitman. He already has a valuable item (the rod of silent spells) that the party can loot off him, which is priced at 11000gp; he also has a scroll of blink (as per Psyren's suggestions, I think it can be useful in the escape) and some potion bottles, all 2nd or 1st level spells. This is, as far as I can see, the upper limit of his equipment wealth. Please do remember that this is a henchman. If the organization had a lot of valuable gear to spare, the villain would be in possession of them, not him.

2) Martial Study (at any level, anything Shadow Hand) and Martial Stance (at 12th, Assassin's Stance) is a feat-based way to tack another 2d6 sneak attack onto the build, no other class levels needed.

We unanimously voted to keep away from Tome of Battle for our campaign. Too many people (including me) have problems with it.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

After a long consideration of current party average level and their progress in the quest, I've decided to make him either 11th or 12th level, with the following build:

spellthief 1 / sorcerer 6 / spellwarp sniper 5

flaws & traits: vulnerable, aggressive
feats: improved initiative, Blooded (Player's Guide to Faerun, regional feat), craven, master spellthief, point blank shot, empower spell, precise shot, sudden maximize
magic items: none, other than a Metamagic Rod of Silent Spells. This and this alone is to be the party's loot if they manage to capture or kill him. And as we're tracking equipment hitpoints (using an automated program developed in house), even that can be destroyed if the party bombards him with spells.

Spellthief 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Unseen Seer 2/ Spellwarp Sniper 5 gives him Silent Spell. If you can work in Able Learner the skill requirements won't be an issue. I'd include Invisible Spell (Cityscape) and Arcane Thesis (PH2), and probably drop Blooded. You can give him a Lesser Rod of Maximize instead of the Silent rod since he'll have Silent Spell via Unseen Seer, and switch out Sudden Maximize for one of those. Keep in mind that using a metamagic rod still counts toward Arcane Thesis.

Be sure to give him Nerveskitter (SpC) for another +5 Initiative. I'd throw in a Runestaff (MIC) with a few long-duration buffs and/or once/encounter spells (Nerveskitter, Heart of Water, Greater Mage Armor) since it's either useful for the PCs or it's fairly low value if they choose to sell it. Give him a partially charged Wand of Camouflage and enough UMD to use it.

[meto30]

FWIW...

1) In lieu of gear, he can have an ally (nowhere near the fact) who heaps prep spells onto him until he'd glow under a detect magic like a bonfire.

2) Martial Study (at any level, anything Shadow Hand) and Martial Stance (at 12th, Assassin's Stance) is a feat-based way to tack another 2d6 sneak attack onto the build, no other class levels needed.

Spellthief 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Unseen Seer 2/ Spellwarp Sniper 5

His signature spell at this point would be scorching ray, but as it doesn't scale with caster level the only real benefit of Arcane Thesis would be the reduced cost of metamagic. Since he is only going to strike once, however, the high cost doesn't matter as much.

As I explained above, I decided not to use Unseen Seer for this guy. Wrong flavor and other reasons, etc. Blooded is more of an in-character choice rather than a mechanical one. He's been a killer of humanoids ever since he discovered his natural magical ability, and this feat represents that sort of background.

However, now that you mention it, I agree that having Rod of Lesser Maximize makes more sense than the Rod of Silent. I changed some feat and items selection. Besides, the party would have more uses out of maximize than silent, if they do obtain the rod.

PS: And I'm adding Nerveskitter in. How did I forget that one? Thanks for reminding me