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  1. - Top - End - #451
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Random Worldbuilding Questions (Biology, Geography, Society, etc.)

    I know "dry fire" (releasing the string without an arrow) are really bad for bows and I suspect the same is true for crossbows. What do you do if you don't want to fire a loaded crossbow? Shoot the ground? Is it possible to unload a crossbow without harming yourself or the weapon? (Assume a mechanical crossbow where you don't pull the string directly yourself.)
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  2. - Top - End - #452
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    I don't see why it should be bad for the bow to spring back without an arrow to push against. Given the amount of pull of a bow, and especially crossbows, I don't think the mass of the arrow slows down the speed of the arms springing back in any significant way.

  3. - Top - End - #453
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    My archery instructors claimed the energy released risked warping the bow if it didn't have an arrow to pass to. However, I have not tested if that is actually the case.
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  4. - Top - End - #454
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    Default Re: Random Worldbuilding Questions (Biology, Geography, Society, etc.)

    I googled it a bit and the vast majority of replies I found mentioned that it happened on accident, and in the worst cases the string needed replaced.
    Some very few people said it did damage their bow, but I think most of them were using modern metal and plastic things with pulleys. I guess they would behave considerably different than a solid piece of wood or wood/bone laminate.

    If you have the same technology in a crossbow, it of course applies as well.

    I'm not up to day with modern crossbows, but aren't those hand drawn? Those should not be a problem to safely release by hand as well.
    With older leaver or crank pulled crossbows, the tension would of course be much too high to attempt such a thing.
    How they would do when you just let the arms spring back I don't know.

  5. - Top - End - #455
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    Default Re: Random Worldbuilding Questions (Biology, Geography, Society, etc.)

    Dry shot is definitely very damaging, especially for natural materials.

    I once did rather fatal dry shot, but since fiberglass bow is rather hard to kill, string had gone to hell....


    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I don't see why it should be bad for the bow to spring back without an arrow to push against. Given the amount of pull of a bow, and especially crossbows, I don't think the mass of the arrow slows down the speed of the arms springing back in any significant way.
    ?

    With some solid wooden bow, good loose and arrow of proper weight, about 60% of energy gathered in the limbs go to the arrow, speeding it up. Up 20% could go into the limbs kinetic energy, in movement, vibration etc. Although it will depend. The rest is string kinetic energy, internal friction and some other stuff.

    Take away arrow and it's 60% and there's recipe for catastrophe.

    Unless you mean "springing back" like, holding in full draw and bringing it back to 'no draw' instead of shooting. Then it's misunderstanding.

    As far as the question goes, it's a good one.

    I think that if one can't manage to relieve the bow by hands slowly, he have to do a safe shot to the ground or something like that.

    All kind of spanning mechanism would be of limited use at best.

    Although belt and claw would probably be pretty practical in 'reverse'.
    Last edited by Spiryt; 2012-08-21 at 09:15 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #456
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    You may want to fix these links. The "URL=____" bit should have the web address, while the part between "URL" and "/URL" should be the text you want to be seen.

    Anyway, to add my two cents, I agree with Yora. It is very possible to get certain types of plant life there, you just need fertilizer. Even without it, you can get certain types of plant, such as palms and pine trees (See these all the time in Florida, where the soil is mostly sand or bare limestone). Also, you have a great source of fertilizer already: The human and animal waste from the city. There's a lot of organic matter that can be gathered from that.
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  7. - Top - End - #457
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    RE desert farming:
    While some plants can pull nitrogen out of the air, phosphorous and potassium can be a bit harder to come by. I doubt very much that you could grow anything on silicon beads + water + sunlight + air.

    Check fertilizer on wikipedia? Perhaps have more info there.

  8. - Top - End - #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    RE desert farming:
    While some plants can pull nitrogen out of the air, phosphorous and potassium can be a bit harder to come by. I doubt very much that you could grow anything on silicon beads + water + sunlight + air.

    Check fertilizer on wikipedia? Perhaps have more info there.
    First you should ask what kind of desert we're talking about- Saharan? Gobi? Kalahari? They're all very different, but all are deserts. Some are more suitable for plant life than others.
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  9. - Top - End - #459
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    Succulents generally grow quite well in sand alone, with long periods of drought.

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  10. - Top - End - #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salbazier View Post
    Hmm, any chance constantly conjuring a lakefull water in the middle of the desert affecting local climate somehow? What if the water is ice-cold?

    Camel is the the best beast of burden for desert travel but how other animals like horse would fare?

    What kind of food and textile crops can be planted? Wheat, palms, flax, maybe olive. Any other crops that good with desert climate?
    A lot would depend on how hostile the desert was in terms of heat/rainfall, the quality of soil versus the quantity of sand. A Sahara like desert--hot all the times and with immense sand dunes--is a lot more hostile to settlement that a scrub-and-hardpan desert or a cold desert.

    Aloes--various agaves and maguey specifically--were and still are cultivated in desert areas in Mexico. Nowadays they're primarily associated with the distilled drinks they create...tequila and mezcal...but the pinon can be roasted and eaten, as can the stalk and flowers. Leaves and stalks can also have aguamiel (the sweet, dilute base from which agave syrup is made) extracted from them. The maguey plant also attracts moths that have edile larva (the "worm" is mezcal), which were an important protein source for the Aztecs and other Mesoamerican peoples. An pre-Columbian times, aloes were a very important food source in the Mexican Basin and in the US Southwest. Aloes are also eaten by indigenous Australians.

    There's also the Barbary fig, aka Prickly Pear, cactus, which has edible fruits and paddles (the succulent leaves); Pitaya, the cactus that produces "dragon fruit"; also, many hard-to cultivate but easy-to-forage wild cacti have edible fruits and flowers, such as the barrel and saguaro.

    Drought-tolerant trees worth cultivating would include edible acacias...many species produce seeds that are eaten by Australian natives and termed wattleseed; mesquite trees, whose pods and beans are not only edible but nutritious and tasty, and of course date palms. Wild almonds are drought-resistant, so cultivated ones might be as well.

    It sounds strange, but melons and cucurbits do fairly well in dry conditions, and the earliest varieties that are edible by humans, like the tsamma vine, actually come out of the deserts of Namibia. The Gamsbock cucumber and the brand-name Kiwano (tm) horned melons are relatives of those early types...more jelly and liquid inside, less firm flesh. Also, even the varieties with inedible flesh yield edible seeds that can be consumed cooked or pressed to make edible oil for cooking.

    A really important adaptation for desert dwellers was raising animals that could take marginal fodder and turn it into edibles...milk and milk products, meat. Hence the importance of goats and cows in the dry parts of Africa...Namibia, Ethiopia, Sudan...of yaks, horse, and cattle in various parts of the Gobi and Taklamakan in Central Asia. Also, of course, camels of both varieties...
    Last edited by Yanagi; 2012-08-21 at 08:22 PM. Reason: punctuation

  11. - Top - End - #461
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    Default Re: Random Worldbuilding Questions (Biology, Geography, Society, etc.)

    What are some examples of cheap military kit? Just thinking about if you have poor adventurers, what are they likely to wear (realistically)?

    I was thinking the cheapest might be cloth armour, or boiled leather with cloth, for body protection. Hard-leather scale or lammelar armour would probably be a step up from that in price and quality?

    For weapons, makeshift staffs and quarterstaffs would be free. Might also be able to make themselves a simple bow? Of course, the arrows might be expensive.

    After that, knives/shortswords, clubs, axes and spears are probably the next step?
    Last edited by Conners; 2012-08-21 at 08:23 PM.
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  12. - Top - End - #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conners View Post
    What are some examples of cheap military kit? Just thinking about if you have poor adventurers, what are they likely to wear (realistically)?

    I was thinking the cheapest might be cloth armour, or boiled leather with cloth, for body protection. Hard-leather scale or lammelar armour would probably be a step up from that in price and quality?

    For weapons, makeshift staffs and quarterstaffs would be free. Might also be able to make themselves a bow cheaply, if there were the right kind of trees in the region?

    After that, knives/shortswords, clubs, axes and spears are probably the next step?
    Quilted armor if any at all. Boiled leather and especially lamelar would actually be expensive to a peasant or destitute person, as they were pretty labor-intensive to create and maintain. Shields--maybe--depending on the materials and tech on hands. The far end of cheap is things like wicker shields or a stretched hide, but wooden-and hide shields would also be possible.

    Generally, more metal means more expense, so your weapon choices on a budget would be staves or weapons with a wooden haft and a mounted head. A lot of real-life peasants (when roused to violent conflict) either used farm tools on hand or slightly modified farm tools. Spears...with or without a metallic head...flails clubs, axes, sickles. The falcata--mounting a scythe blade vertically rather than horizontally on a staff--is an example of an improvisation. Mind you some of those improvisations have become famous martial arts weapons, so don't completely underestimate them.

    That's a very penny-pinching estimate, drawing on historically what the poor armed themselves with (as opposed to what they would be provided with as levies...maybe...).

  13. - Top - End - #463
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    Default Re: Random Worldbuilding Questions (Biology, Geography, Society, etc.)

    Wow, that's quite a lot of juicy infos. Thanks everyone. This will take some time to think about. My desert farms turn out to be much richer and diverse than what I thought first.

  14. - Top - End - #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geostationary View Post
    First you should ask what kind of desert we're talking about- Saharan? Gobi? Kalahari? They're all very different, but all are deserts. Some are more suitable for plant life than others.
    That is true, the type of sand and thus the available nutrients will depend on many factors and can probably be handwaved.


    Additional ideas:
    You could look up polyculture and various advance agricultural/terraforming techniques. IIRC, some guys managed to restore a hill undergoing desertification... and grow pineapples and other useful stuff on it.

    In general, if you have access to functionally unlimited water, you could probably slowly turn the desert into a forest.

  15. - Top - End - #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by jseah View Post
    That is true, the type of sand and thus the available nutrients will depend on many factors and can probably be handwaved.

    I'm thinking of Sahara-like

    In general, if you have access to functionally unlimited water, you could probably slowly turn the desert into a forest.
    That would take centuries. And require building aqueducts across the desert to deliver the water, as well forts guard it and workers settlements.

    Hmm, Looks like I can expand this city idea into an empire. A future version of the setting. With the empire's capital holding power over the rest of the realm by being the primary source of water.
    Last edited by Salbazier; 2012-08-22 at 11:33 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #466
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    I wanted to introduce blood magic into my setting. And was looking for ways of calling what the blood mages cast that didn't step into spells/powers/misteries/invocations toes and my English mastery is just not enough.

    Any good idea for it? Ritual sounds too long and sorceries seems well thinks that sorcerers do, not blood mages.
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  17. - Top - End - #467
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    so if i understand what your asking your looking for a word to describe blood magic spells that is different then one currently used by a dnd casting class? if so rites, art, technique, craft, knack,

  18. - Top - End - #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salbazier View Post
    I'm thinking of Sahara-like

    That would take centuries. And require building aqueducts across the desert to deliver the water, as well forts guard it and workers settlements.

    Hmm, Looks like I can expand this city idea into an empire. A future version of the setting. With the empire's capital holding power over the rest of the realm by being the primary source of water.
    You wouldn't want to create over-ground aqueducts in the Sahara. Sand gets in everywhere, and the heat, even without direct exposure to sunlight, would mean huge losses to evaporation.

    In the real-life Sahara they've been maintaining and improving underground wells for centuries, and possibly millenia. There's a pretty amazing ongoing effort to connect and reinforce those well sites going on right now (the BBC featured it on one of their big documentaries...Human Planet, I think).

    A pretty cool concept for an Empire would be a culture that via magic...or elbow grease, or some combination of the two...has created a vast linked well network across a desert.

    That water supply would be enough to support horticulture (maybe not a sustainable agricultural base for a whole civilization, though) and container gardening...or if there was lots of water, artificial oases. But also that consistent water supply would make all of their well-sites vital resources for trade across the desert. The civilization could either dominate caravan-type overland trading itself, or passively enrich itself through tariffs, fees, and taxation of traders passing through territory wanting to use their water resources.

  19. - Top - End - #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    so if i understand what your asking your looking for a word to describe blood magic spells that is different then one currently used by a dnd casting class? if so rites, art, technique, craft, knack,
    Yep that was the question I don't want my players confusing spells with blood rites (I liked rites )
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  20. - Top - End - #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salbazier View Post
    That would take centuries. And require building aqueducts across the desert to deliver the water, as well forts guard it and workers settlements.

    Hmm, Looks like I can expand this city idea into an empire. A future version of the setting. With the empire's capital holding power over the rest of the realm by being the primary source of water.
    Not necessarily. If one had a small ocean's worth of water, you could simply dump it into the desert and the resulting cloud of water will change the climate more or less permanently. If you have a handy depression that is below sea level, all the better.

    And then you start with hardy grasses, add fungi, small insects then work your way up to bushes and small trees. Then you can increase the water content and turn it into a dry plain full of grass (some nitrogen fixing variety), a few years of that and you'll be able to support your first proper forest trees.

    I say its possible within about 60-80 years with a good working knowledge of biology and a massive concerted effort. As well as an ocean of water. =)

    If you want your desert garden to stick around without maintenance, that'll take a bit longer. Have to dig large and long rivers and manipulate terrain to set up a permanent rain system. That one will take centuries.

  21. - Top - End - #471
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    How close to the typical super-hero style of setting could reality get to? Could criminals get off/out easy, due to politics of the time? Could vigilantism be allowed by the state? What would motivate heroes not to kill villains, or either party to dress/act ludicrously?

    Anyone put much thought into this kind of a setting, as to how it could work plausibly?
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    Well, I know at least some parts of the United States have licensed bounty hounters. Those are private people who have a licence to search and capture people who have been let out of prison on bail but did not show up to their trial.
    Controversial perhaps, but it does exist.
    Another thing would be mercenaries who are hired by the state.

    I think superheroes could possibly exist in such a legal framework. They would have to have a license and work within certain rules and restrictions, but from a technical standpoint there is no reason why a state could not outsource certain parts of public safety to private individuals. I think most modern states have laws against such practices in their costitutions, but constitutions can be altered or ammended to allow for such things if enough people of the political establishment support it.
    In Germany, very large parts of emergency services are outsourced to private organizations. I think almost, if not all ambulances are run by large charities. Two of the major ones are actually founded by old crusader orders, the Knights Hospitaler and the Knights of Malta.
    The German Lifeguard Service could actually be called a vigilante organization as it as non-profit organization just like any sports club or choir. However, they don't fight crime but guard public lakes and beaches, run swimming classes, and have their own fleet of naval rescue boats. They do coordinate with the state and about 10% of their funding is donations by the state government, but they are completely independent.


    To have villains escape constantly, all you need is a good amount of corruption. To get Al Capone to prision, they eventually had to try him for tax evasion, because it just was impossible to get a trial for the activities of his organized crime business, because police and politics were all involved.
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  23. - Top - End - #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conners View Post
    How close to the typical super-hero style of setting could reality get to? Could criminals get off/out easy, due to politics of the time? Could vigilantism be allowed by the state? What would motivate heroes not to kill villains, or either party to dress/act ludicrously?

    Anyone put much thought into this kind of a setting, as to how it could work plausibly?
    The most fundamental (if hidden between the lines) assumption of a typical superhero setting is that crime - and in particular violent street crime - is the biggest problem of the human race, and the biggest conflict in existence. Therefore, people with superpowers and the will to do something good in the world would plausibly spend all their time punching criminals (with or without the silent approval or direct support of the state and the citizens).

    Realistically, this is not and probably never will be the case. Crime is of course a problem, but at the same time we have war, hunger, poverty, racism, unemployment, human rights abuses - and a crapload of other problems which affect billions of people and can't be solved with punches, as a rule.

    That's why the typical superhero setting (there are exceptions, of course) isn't truly realistic, even when it's grim and gritty and includes a social commentary now and then. That's why gimmicks such as scary supervillains (who keep getting caught by the good guys and then are out again in the blink of any eye), are necessary.

    IMO, overthinking it is not a good idea. Just roll with it.
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  24. - Top - End - #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeadlessMermaid View Post
    Realistically, this is not and probably never will be the case. Crime is of course a problem, but at the same time we have war, hunger, poverty, racism, unemployment, human rights abuses - and a crapload of other problems which affect billions of people and can't be solved with punches, as a rule.
    Yeap, that's most of it.
    I read something about a Superman comic where superman was explained that we would do something better for humanity for turning a wheel forever, providing electricity for a whole continent, with enough power to pump water for them, and stuff like that ...

    That makes sens : As long as there is no super-villain a super-hero is needed to defeat (or an al-capone like), why would such a great source of power wander in the streets ?

  25. - Top - End - #475
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    @HeadlessMermaid: Super Heroes acting as political figures could be interesting, for that reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Well, I know at least some parts of the United States have licensed bounty hounters. Those are private people who have a licence to search and capture people who have been let out of prison on bail but did not show up to their trial.
    Controversial perhaps, but it does exist.
    Another thing would be mercenaries who are hired by the state.

    I think superheroes could possibly exist in such a legal framework. They would have to have a license and work within certain rules and restrictions, but from a technical standpoint there is no reason why a state could not outsource certain parts of public safety to private individuals. I think most modern states have laws against such practices in their costitutions, but constitutions can be altered or ammended to allow for such things if enough people of the political establishment support it.
    In Germany, very large parts of emergency services are outsourced to private organizations. I think almost, if not all ambulances are run by large charities. Two of the major ones are actually founded by old crusader orders, the Knights Hospitaler and the Knights of Malta.
    The German Lifeguard Service could actually be called a vigilante organization as it as non-profit organization just like any sports club or choir. However, they don't fight crime but guard public lakes and beaches, run swimming classes, and have their own fleet of naval rescue boats. They do coordinate with the state and about 10% of their funding is donations by the state government, but they are completely independent.


    To have villains escape constantly, all you need is a good amount of corruption. To get Al Capone to prision, they eventually had to try him for tax evasion, because it just was impossible to get a trial for the activities of his organized crime business, because police and politics were all involved.
    Hmmm... so the legal framework is quite plausible, given a set of different circumstances. The main difficulty is probably in the inefficient and flamboyant nature of super-heroes (also, super powers, unless it's a Watchmen universe).
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomPliss View Post
    Yeap, that's most of it.
    I read something about a Superman comic where superman was explained that we would do something better for humanity for turning a wheel forever, providing electricity for a whole continent, with enough power to pump water for them, and stuff like that ...

    That makes sens : As long as there is no super-villain a super-hero is needed to defeat (or an al capone like), why would such a great source of power wander in the streets ?
    If talking about anything approaching Superman's level of world flattening power, the only reason you let that wander the streets is because it chooses to do so. There is literally nothing you can do to stop a creature that ignore all of your most powerful weapons, or can escape prison on a whim. If you want to see what could happen if Superman decide he was right find Red Son. Its a reasonable attempt to explain what happens when Superman is given control of the world (also if he landed in the USSR rather than Kansas).

    The other big thing to remember is that even Superman comics started with him stopping organized crime, slum lords and other "scum". Batman did the same thing, then they got involved WWII, and then Silver Age happened.

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    First, what superpowers do you have in mind? The ability to Climb Walls Impossibly Fast And Very Efficiently is one thing. The ability to throw planets out of orbit with a good kick is quite another. The implications will vary dramatically, so start from there. :)

    I still believe you should handwave the whole thing, and get done with it. But if you want to take it seriously, if you want a true science fiction, speculative setting (what if there WERE superpowers? what would REALLY happen?), here are some questions you can ask yourself:

    1. Guy gets superpowers. How? Was he born that way? Did something happen? Can this something be replicated? Does he or anyone else know how to replicate it?
    2. In any case, guy now has superpowers. What does he do? Wear a costume and fight crime?
    3. No, that would be silly. What does he really do?
    4. How do his superpowers affect his way of life? How do they upset it? Can he suppress them at will? Can he hide them at least? Is he obviously a freak?
    5. What does he want in life? Can his superpowers help him achieve it? How? Have his superpowers ruined it? How?


    In today's society with today's (very very advanced) technology, a man with superpowers would NOT become a superhero. [Unless he was a disturbed superhero fan, which is actually a brilliant premise.] He would go on America's Got Talent. He would try to use his superpowers for fun and/or profit. He could become a media celebrity for a week, and swiftly be forgotten. Or he could find a more permanent use for his gift.

    And if he happened to be a selfless man, a Hero, wanting more than anything to do good in the world? Well, if he could generate profits, he'd fund medical research. If not, he'd join the Doctors Without Borders. That's bloody heroic.

    Now, to realistically portray a vigilante, you need to study vigilantism, not superhero comics. It's rarely pretty. And I'm not getting into it, lest we veer off to forbidden topics.

    (I said you should handwave it, now, didn't I? )
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  28. - Top - End - #478
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    Default Re: Random Worldbuilding Questions (Biology, Geography, Society, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by TomPliss View Post
    I read something about a Superman comic where superman was explained that we would do something better for humanity for turning a wheel forever, providing electricity for a whole continent, with enough power to pump water for them, and stuff like that ...
    Was it this?

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  29. - Top - End - #479
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    Default Re: Random Worldbuilding Questions (Biology, Geography, Society, etc.)

    @HeadlessMermaid: If someone got super powers, they'd either hide it or go on variety tv shows (or become King of the World). That's why I'm curious about whether you could get a situation with flamboyant vigilantes and villains (sponsored vigilantism is easy, it seems--the costumes and punch-ups is harder to manufacture).
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    Default Re: Random Worldbuilding Questions (Biology, Geography, Society, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Conners View Post
    @HeadlessMermaid: If someone got super powers, they'd either hide it or go on variety tv shows
    My thoughts exactly. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Conners View Post
    That's why I'm curious about whether you could get a situation with flamboyant vigilantes and villains (sponsored vigilantism is easy, it seems--the costumes and punch-ups is harder to manufacture).
    A media event, then? Sure!

    I've read an indie comic with that premise - not a good comic, sadly, but the concept was fine. The whole thing was a spectacle (though not necessarily fake). There were sponsors openly, semi-official state endorsement, a lot of publicity, TV shows, the works. And there was a completely unnecessary secret conspiracy, pulling the strings of our well-meaning heroes for its own nefarious reasons.

    In any case, a media sensation (costume Vs costume, live from the Empire State Building, who will win? vote now! interview to follow!) sounds a lot more plausible than superpoweful people running around in tights and capes just because...


    As for the legal aspect, I'm not sure if the precedent of bounty-hunters and outsourced emergency services (or the police force of an entire town, as I once read) are enough to cover it. There's something very important called due process. Due process is the foundation of a just and fair legal system, and a just and fair legal system is, some say, the foundation of democracy. Is that a thing in your setting? And if so, do your superheroes adhere to due process or bypass it? That's an important question you need to answer, and you have to think of the consequences.

    Of course, you can always have a fishy democracy, where the state itself defines "exceptions" to due process (very vague ones, probably), where superheroes can legally intervene. You can toy with that idea, too, it can lead to a lot of places, some darker than others.

    And hey, maybe in these cases, superheroes are allowed to violate privacy without a warrant, break limbs without provocation, bust people without evidence or charges, etc - but if they actually kill someone, their privileges get revoked. ("I said we want them alive to interrogate them/reuse them for Tuesday's public spectacle!") Does that work for motivation not to kill?

    Oh, did I just veer off the typical superhero setting? I'm sorry, I got carried away with speculation. :(

    Basically, my question is this: Are you sure you want a setting populated with superheroes (flamboyant, heroic, selfless, effective, NOT mentally unstable menaces to life and limb)? Or, if it makes the setting more plausible, are you fine with costumed vigilantes (media-sponsored or otherwise), who happen to have superpowers? Or would you let your players decide what they want to do with their superpowers, without taking it for granted that they must pick a costume and a fancy name at all?
    Last edited by HeadlessMermaid; 2012-08-24 at 06:56 PM.
    "We need the excuse of fiction to stage what we truly are." ~ Slavoj Žižek, The Pervert’s Guide to Cinema
    "El bien más preciado es la libertad" ~ Valeriano Orobón Fernández, A las barricadas
    "If civilization has an opposite, it is war." ~ Ursula K. Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness

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