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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    About the database, is it possible that by that time (2300) the Doctor has actually managed to be forgotten? Sure he might be known LATER in time, but if he's managed to hide his tracks/disappear from most of the major records from the beginning of time up until then it is theoretically possible that he wouldn't be in any database.

    Also keep in mind that this isn't the first time no one has heard of time lords. Granted this is a bit far fetched, but back at the season 3 finale 10th probed the humans for information on time lords and no one had heard of them. Combine that with time lords habit of changing face every so often and it's possible that they as a species aren't in many/any databases anymore except for a few exceptions (daleks, other time-traveling organizations and races.). So if the race isn't in the traders database, and the face doesn't match any important historical figures (might have records on a previous incarnation perhaps?) why would he show up?
    And yes I do realize that it makes little sense, but I'm trying because I've actually liked both episodes in this season.

    And I just have to add my voice to the opinions on Moffat overall. I have to say he does have his unique style, and some of his episodes are really good, but overall it feels like he tries to hard to build up to finales that don't deliver, tries to set a much more serious tone (I liked Davies whimsical tone), doesn't get the viewers as involved on an emotional level (Which Davies did which made people more willing to ignore plot holes.) and generally I dislike his full season arcs. (And I'm really, really, really fed up with River Song.) I mean it's still a good show, don't get me wrong, but it feels like he's trying to be more of a Hollywood show than Doctor Who with his bigger explosions, more actions, bigger baddies, etc. And well, that's just not Doctor Who to me, it's really not. Doctor Who is over the top and silly and funny and sometimes serious and usually utterly ridiculous. Right now it's over the top (in the bad way), the jokes and comedy situations feels awkward and forced, and there's to much dark-seriousness and not enough silly ridiculousness. It'd work for any other show (if the jokes were dropped/felt more organic), but it's sort of not what Doctor Who is to me.

    Also Amy and Ace together would be AWESOME. Good thing 9th isn't around anymore because he'd join in on the explosive fun.

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0al-NSWkXc

    Review of Asylum of the Daleks, makes me look like an idealist. I don't know what to think. I agree with all he says but I still like the ep.
    I agree with some of what he says (mainly AmyxRory being pointless, Skaro being back but unexplained but I'm holding out on that one, hoping for a later episode bringing it back) but honestly, he's trying very hard to hate the episode, mostly because he hates the conclusion. The Dalek Doctor relationship had started to die by the end of Tennant's run. They fear him, he hates them, we get it. Forcing that to change wasn't going to happen easily. As for the plot hole of fixing the broken Daleks, the thing they liked about those Daleks was how full of hate they were. That's why they weren't exterminated as opposed to all the other Daleks that have been destroyed. Because "They hate you, SO, much" as Oswin so elegantly put it. They weren't about to erase that hatred. And as has been mentioned on this thread, Rory being reluctant to rescue Oswin only works if he recognized the voice as Dalek. Though my own headcanon had it being because she was using the psychic Dalek hive mind thingy she could sound however she wanted to (also explains the opera) and was occasionally slipping into Dalek speak.

    Oh, and regarding the doctor not showing up on the sensors. That has been happening long before the Doctor started laying low. In fact it's been happening ever since the time war because scanners don't know what to make of time lord physiology.
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  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartAlec View Post

    But because he's woven himself throughout the universe, the Doctor somehow ceasing to exist and being forgotten opens up a huge paradox that will destroy everything?
    Ceasing to exist and being forgotten are not nearly the same thing. The former could cause paradoxes; the latter is just the norm for most of us, and doesn't cause any paradoxes. Put another way--almost everyone who died more than 100 years ago is forgotten, but that doesn't cause any paradoxes.

  4. - Top - End - #394
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    It's also a big deal of how specific the forgetting was. Do you just forget the Doctor, or also the events he was involved in? Like, "Our planet was about to be destroyed by the Daleks, and then... I have no idea what happened next. We won, somehow?" All it takes is one curious person saying, "Hey, I wonder what happened in this thing we all forgot?" The Doctor may be forgotten and specific records deleted, but everyone will know that something showed up and blew up the whole battlefield.

    It may not be enough to generate a paradox. But now all of the Doctor's worst enemies will know that they've been attacked by some force that can travel through time. Some kind of warrior, or demon, or trickster, that just drops out of the sky and burns their whole world down. Possibly even something so awful that the Doctor's worst enemies would unite to find, identify, and trap this monster somehow...

    Okay, yeah, I don't think that it's seriously retconning into the Pandorica. But, well, there's a pretty gaping TARDIS-shaped hole in everyone's memories, and there's a lot of intelligent creatures out there who'll want to find out who the Doctor is.
    ...but of course that's just my opinion.

  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Tergon View Post
    everyone will know that something showed up and blew up the whole battlefield.
    They were defeated by a single human, sometimes followed by a tin dog. (Yes I know the Doctor has travelled with larger groups, and that sometimes he had no human companions, stop using canon to ruin my joke )
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2012-09-11 at 10:04 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I'm reminded of the Pandorica Opens, particularly the Doctor's talk with Amy regarding her ring: "Nothing is ever truly forgotten. There's always something left behind: photographs you don't recognize, meals half eaten..." If a genuine end of time can't clean up all the loose ends, a coverup of the biggest meddler in history will probably run into difficulty.

    Of course there's also his explanation of the Tardis's relative safety: "What do you do when you find a mysterious wooden blue box standing on a corner when you've never seen it there before? You walk right past it. I believe there's a word for that: You're thick." Any loose ends are very likely to be ignored by people not interested in mysteries.
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  7. - Top - End - #397
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    I'm reminded of the Pandorica Opens, particularly the Doctor's talk with Amy regarding her ring: "Nothing is ever truly forgotten. There's always something left behind: photographs you don't recognize, meals half eaten..." If a genuine end of time can't clean up all the loose ends, a coverup of the biggest meddler in history will probably run into difficulty.

    Of course there's also his explanation of the Tardis's relative safety: "What do you do when you find a mysterious wooden blue box standing on a corner when you've never seen it there before? You walk right past it. I believe there's a word for that: You're thick." Any loose ends are very likely to be ignored by people not interested in mysteries.
    Maybe we could be 'treated' to another Love and Monsters type episode where instead of people trying to track down the Doctor after meeting him, they're instead investigating the loose ends of his coverup. Please god no.
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  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Weezer View Post
    Maybe we could be 'treated' to another Love and Monsters type episode where instead of people trying to track down the Doctor after meeting him, they're instead investigating the loose ends of his coverup. Please god no.
    I'd be ok with this. I think that story has a lot of potential (Hell Blink had a similar idea behind it and that episode was great), unfortunately Love and Monsters sucked.

  9. - Top - End - #399
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    So, three words about the next episode...

    Trigun. Doctor Who.

    Crossover is complete.
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  10. - Top - End - #400
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeGuitarrem View Post
    So, three words about the next episode...

    Trigun. Doctor Who.

    Crossover is complete.
    That was my husbands exact thought too. Mine went more like "Maybe Cowboys and Aliens will be good this time." XD

  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    "Three blokes walk into a pub. One of them is a little bit stupid, and the whole scene unfolds with a tedious inevitability." - Bill Bailey
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  12. - Top - End - #402
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Thufir View Post
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  13. - Top - End - #403
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Stephen Moffat's a dodgy Tweeter.

    Also, Have you seen Doctor Who Confidential? It's not on any more!
    We're all in the Monster Manual somewhere. My entry is between Howler and Hydra.

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    It's nice to see someone saying it isn't for once, the forum IQ did just go up. Please have a cookie Sunken Valley.
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    I thought Sunken Valley eloquently covered the points I wanted to make.
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  14. - Top - End - #404
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Stephen Moffat's a dodgy Tweeter.

    Also, Have you seen Doctor Who Confidential? It's not on any more!
    They needed to save money for all the other quality programming BBC3 has...
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Ehn.

    He's a bit thin-skinned, sure, but I'm not sure "Please stop being rude to me" in response to someone tweeting him really qualifies as being a dodgy tweeter. (And frankly, it was on about the same level as the initial tweet, which I agree with in spirit but feel might have been a tad more confrontational than the writer of the article would like to admit.)
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  16. - Top - End - #406
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Ehn.

    He's a bit thin-skinned, sure, but I'm not sure "Please stop being rude to me" in response to someone tweeting him really qualifies as being a dodgy tweeter. (And frankly, it was on about the same level as the initial tweet, which I agree with in spirit but feel might have been a tad more confrontational than the writer of the article would like to admit.)
    To be honest I can see how one person reads it as rude when it wasn't meant to be, text only does that at times since you don't have body language or tone of voice to go by, and on twitter you rarely even have smileys.

    But I also think that if you don't want to deal with the public when you're a public figure you shouldn't have twitter, facebook accounts, etc. that the public can reach you through. Make some private ones, but be prepared to deal with the public if you make things like that public.

  17. - Top - End - #407
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I'm very disapointed that Total Wipeout isn't on before Who now
    Also Who is on now.
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  18. - Top - End - #408
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    I'm very disapointed that Total Wipeout isn't on before Who now
    Also Who is on now.
    It was on before Strictly.
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  19. - Top - End - #409
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    It was on before Strictly.
    I'm hardly the target audience for Strictly though.
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  20. - Top - End - #410
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Well that was a disappointingly bad episode.

    Next week looks solid though, so silver linings and all that.
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  21. - Top - End - #411
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    No Review Tonight People.

    This gets 10/10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe I'll come back later to talk about how great! this episode is!
    We're all in the Monster Manual somewhere. My entry is between Howler and Hydra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCat View Post
    It's nice to see someone saying it isn't for once, the forum IQ did just go up. Please have a cookie Sunken Valley.
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    I thought Sunken Valley eloquently covered the points I wanted to make.
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  22. - Top - End - #412
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

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    That was... okay. Sort of the level I expected from last week. Nothing to write home about. Not bad, not earth-shattering, just an average episode. ('Course, not much of a cowboy fan at the best of times, so...)

    Aside from Ben Browder becoming Man in Third Major Sci-Fi Series...! That was a pleasant surprise.

    Next week looks quite good.

    (I also like the fact how they've subtly been aging Amy and Rory a bit, presumably for when it comes to hit the Doctor that first real family he's sort of had since, well, the series started isn't going to be around forever. Which is going to be so sad.)
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2012-09-15 at 02:26 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #413
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I liked it.

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    A bit too heavy-handed, in some parts, admittedly, but I like it. More on it lately, possibly, after I've orgainised my thoughts a bit.

    "Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot" - N.Gaiman, The Sandman

  24. - Top - End - #414
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    Well that was a disappointingly bad episode.

    Next week looks solid though, so silver linings and all that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    No Review Tonight People.

    This gets 10/10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe I'll come back later to talk about how great! this episode is!
    This just shows how varied the viewers are.
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  25. - Top - End - #415
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    This just shows how varied the viewers are.
    yet still I know no person who would like "Love and Monsters". Or dislike Silence in the Library. ;-)
    Last edited by Cen; 2012-09-15 at 03:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

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    Ep. 1: 'The Eleventh Hour' (including 'Meanwhile in the TARDIS 1')
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    To to things this series was split in two, as such eps. 8 - Christmas episode will be liveblogged, and the first seven will be written with me having seen them before.
    Ep. 1: 'The Impossible Astronaut' (1/2)
    Ep. 2: 'Day of the Moon' (2/2)
    Ep. 3: 'The Curse of the Black Spot'
    Ep. 4: 'The Doctor's Wife' HELL YEAH!
    Ep. 5: 'The Rebel Flesh' (1/2)
    Ep. 6: 'The Almost People' (2/2)
    Ep. 7: 'A Good Man Goes to War'
    Ep. 8: 'Let's Kill Hitler'
    Ep. 9: 'Night Terrors'
    Ep. 10: 'The Girl Who Waited'
    Ep. 11: 'The God Complex'
    Ep. 12: 'Closing Time'
    Ep. 13: 'The Wedding of River Song'

    Red Nose Day Specials: 'Space'/'Time'
    2011 Christmas Special: 'The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe'


    Season 7
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    Liveblogged unless otherwise mentioned.

    Ep. 1: 'Asylum of the Daleks'
    Ep. 2: 'Dinosaurs On A Spaceship'
    Ep. 3: 'A Town Called Mercy'
    Ep. 4: 'The Power of Three'
    Ep. 5: 'The Muppets Take Manhattan'


    Odds and Sods
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    Things that don't really fit anywhere.

    'Good As Gold' Second Blue Peter scriptwriting competition for Doctor Who



    And now, to boldly go where many have gone before. [*cue TNG theme (Such a awesome introduction)*]

    'A Town Called Mercy' (season 7a, ep. 3)
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    Welcome to episode three, written by Toby Whithouse. Things I know about this episode: it's a robo-Western that reminds me of that Red Dwarf episode 'Gunmen of the Apocalypse' in that there's a robot in the Wild West. Except this time the robot's a psychotic gunslinger and not an alcoholic sheriff. So basically, one of Red Dwarf's rogue simulants is the villain of this Doctor Who episode, except from what I've seen he really looks like Kryten from 'Angels and Demons'/

    This will be the first time since 1966's serial 'The Gunfighters' that the show's visited the Wild West, and sadly, I do know that Toby Whithouse was asked not to watch said serial because it wasn't all that good. Chances of shout outs: low.

    Also, I am not much of a Western fan, and the vast majority of my knowledge comes from Saturdays when I was younger. Specifically, Grandpa and an aunt or two loved Westerns, and they usually watched one over lunchtimes, and we were stuck watching them when we were over there. Granted I normally ended up reading a book while munching on my chips (UK chips), but I still picked up a bit. They were mostly John Wayne Westerns from the 1950s and early '60s, so this is dead. straight. Western. tropes.

    In other words: rambling! And John Wayne is the best ever person to be in a Western ever. So cool my Elder Little Brother would get up a three in the morning to watch them. So cool said sibling wanted to be John Wayne.

    Rambling again. But it's twenty to six. Yes, I write these little intro nothings at least thirty minutes beforehand. I actually don't know when Doctor Who's on today actually. This is problematic and should be rectified.

    Eh, on with the show.

    (Also my enter key is shot, so formatting will be broken)

    Oh Lord! Now Strictly's on just before Doctor Who (how is Brucie still alive? Isn't he older than the - oh hello boobs! And everything else! - universe by now?) I don't think I'll be getting my Bowie advert. This is atrocious and shocking and awful.

    Then again, the only time I ever watched Strictly was once or twice when Matt Baker was on. It was nostalgic, and I already knew he was a good dancer.

    Okay, for realz: on - how dare they be covering QUEEN HOW DARE THEY! AND IT'S A BAD COVER TOO THIS IS AWFUL AND DOCTOR WHO IS NOW STARTING ON -1 WITH BAD FEELS!

    Oh this isn't fair. Dad's Army's on the other channel. That's another - 1!

    Boo.

    On with the show.

    Oooh, new period drama starting next week though. Up half a point.

    Voiceover of stereotypical Southern woman. And . . . deliberately cheesy space ship that looks from a 1950s B movie.

    The Gunslinger as a TERMINATE screen like Hudson from Red Dwarf and oodles more - oh Lord, it is Kryten. And Kryten's off to kill the Doctor.

    But wasn't he wiped out of existence last series? Could have sworn he was. Eh. This takes place post-wipe, in a pre-wipe setting>

    Oooh! Random adventure for gits and shiggles. And Kryten's already zooming in on them.

    D: "I see 'Keep Out' signs as more sugggestions really. Like 'Dry Clean Only." A Time Lord after my own heart.

    Lovely music that. And yes, that is a stereotypical strolling down the town centre.

    Rory left his mobile behind in Henry VIII's suite. Also, the Christmas list was mentioned again! And I think about half the teaser trailer for this episode was from that

    D: "Tea. With the strong stuff. Leave the bag in." Excuse me while I go die. And he's flirting with the bar lady.

    What is it with the bad grammar? 'Is you an alien?'

    And the Doctor is getting . . . lynched now? Now. They chucked him just over their town border. About two yards over.

    Preacher: "He's coming, oh God he's coming." *does the Lord's Prayer* Eh? And - ooooh, the sheriff has a spiffy green waistcoat.

    Also, Kryten can't cross the town borders. Ah, the sheriff is Aaaahhhhzik. Also, was the a banjo or a mandolin?

    Exposition dump! Kryten's holding

    S: "He wasn't aiming for the head."

    D: "He was aiming for their hats?!" And he's so shocked. Hey, the TARDIS got lost again. Also, the electricity's all fizzing

    D: "Two alien Doctors, we're like buses." And it's that other alien Doctor who - monocle glasses. Carla Jakes is also the Doctor. He has a metal snakey thing on his face and is ginger. And British.

    He's ultimately the bad guy. He's a Brit in America. He's the villain. Oh, and Carla (I can't make out his name properly, so Carla) - I forget. Sidetracked by Carla being all genial and understanding and so on. And taking advantage of the obviously welcoming, sweet and so on American's hospitality.

    D: "Did you try to repair your craft? Surely someone with your skills . . ?" Point. AND THE DOCTOR HAS A STETSON AND WANTS TO WATCH THE ARCHERS.

    Oh, and remember the situation from 'Closing TIme', the Doctor's now utterly denying his interest in anything, meaning he's very interesting and knows what Carla's done.

    And his distraction is having the sheriff and Rory . . . I think? - My telly's freezing up something wicked - run pell mell through the desert. And seeing as Kryten's HUD informed him 87% chance of injuring an innocent I was so right.

    Ten minutes max.

    C: "YOu're a mother. There's kindness in your eyes. Sadness too. ANd ferocity." I CALL BULL!

    And this doctor just so happens to be a father?! BULL. He's telling fibby pops!

    Oh, it was the ship. The Doctor's picking people up in the TARDIS when he reaches it.

    MATT SMITH ON A HORSE IN A STETSON!

    And even though he's in a hurry - he can speak horse - he gets distracted and finds a VERY POORLY HIDDEN ELECTRICAL CABLE. And fiddling with it makes the bad guy suspicious. Spain looks very like the West?

    D: "Yes, I wear a Stetson now." . . .Where's the rest of the line. "Yes. Good point Susan" REFERENCE TO 'THE GUNFIGHTERS' OR AT LEAST THE FIRST DOCTOR.

    So Rory and Sheriff are hiding by a cliff while the Doctor jumps on top of an egg shaped ship with ho damage. Until he sets off the car alarm and opens the door.

    Fortunately for
    - oh KARLA -

    the Distraction Boys this well, distracts everybody. And yeah, Carla's a villain and he's going to end up taking someone - probably Amy - hostage, because he's been playing

    Heh. Abraxas security is funny. And the sonic screwdriver overrides it.

    Called it. He's an EVIL SCIENTIST who does illegal cyborg experiments on - that was a child - people who are fully conscious.

    Called it: hostage!Amy.

    Isn't there a Star Trek character called Jex? Yyyyyep. It's Kryten-meets-the 'Justice' episodes.

    A: "We?? Uh, I'm coming with you." Bit thick there. Obviously when someone points a gun in your face you're in trouble. And then the sheriff and Rory stumble upon Carla holding a gun to Amy's face.

    C: "It was stupid of me." He thought it would be easier if he left. And now the Doctor is peed off. The Doctor is furious because of illegal experiments. Carla considers himself a "war hero"

    C: "We built an army that brought an end to the war in less than a week." Then he begins talking about how war is another world that shouldn't have ordinary defintions applied to it.

    GREY AREAS! GREY AREAS!

    Carla is the town's hero, but he's a war criminal! And Rory and Amy are on different sides and the

    C: "Looking at you Doctor, is like looking into a mirror. Almost. [...] Everything but the nerves to do what needed to be done." Oh boy.

    Oh. Boy.

    So it's no surprise the Doctor just bodily hauled Carla out of the town and over the border. AND HE DREW A GUN. UP YOURS TEN!

    Okay, that's going too far.

    C: "You wouldn't."

    D: "I genuinely don't know." More honest than Ten too.

    S: "Everyone who isn't an American: drop the gun."

    Oooh, okay. I wasn't all that sure about this episode until the last five or seven minutes or so, but know there's mercy and its applicability, the Doctor's Issues, GREY AREAS. All sorts of things. And then the Doctor agrees that he's maybe doing something wrong, and then Kryten comes.

    KRYTEN SHOT THE SHERIFF, BUT HE DIDN'T SHOOT THE DEPUTY! Sorry, but this was obvious. And now the Doctor's being held beholden to "protect Jex, protect [his] town. You're both good men, you just forget it sometimes."

    And now the Doctor's the Marshall of Mercy. Appropriate. Kind of. And Kryten broke his programming (ish?) by killing an innocent.

    D: "THis has gone on long enough."

    K@ "You're right. You've got until noon tomorrow. Give him to me, or I'll kill you all."

    GOODBYE GREY AREAS!

    A: "Oh my God, you're the Marshall."

    D: "Yeah. And you're the deputy." Beat you to it.

    And night: awwww, poor Rory's just a "fella". And I'll be surprised if there's not a lynch mob outside the prison. Well, there's a group? And the Doctor's wearing guns in holsters.

    My mind is boggled.

    Random dude: "He in there? Leave the keys and take a walk. [...] Protecting [Carla] got him killed." Ehm. It's a mob of mixed feelings then. Although I do find it amusing the prostitute/saloon girl was the one to vocally stand up for Carla.

    The Doctor's smooth talking his way into making an eighteen year old drop his gun. D: "Don't you see, violence doesn't end violence, it just extends it." Hello Anvil! Deservedly though. And the Doctor tells the kid "you are [worth the risk".

    The Doctor then makes a very relieved face as the crowd disperses. "Frightened me. Give me a Dalek any day." Black and white is easier than grey./

    The Undertaker gave the Doctor coffee, and the Doctor wigged out. Quietly. Also: calling it: poison. And behind his back the Undertaker measure's the Doctor. Again. Amusing.

    And now Carla's being needlessly antagonistic. D: "But I can't can I? Then Isaac's death would be just another casualty in this bloody war!"

    C: "It would be so much simpler if I was just one thing [...] the fact that I'm both [mad scientist and good doctor] confuses you."

    D: "[...] You can't get to decide when and how your debt is paid!" Then there's alien religious talk that reminds me very much of Dante's depiction of Purgatory. He must carry all the souls of those he's wronged up the mountain.

    C: "Can you see now why I'm afraid of death? We all carry our prisons with us. Mine is my past, yours is your morality."

    I like that. Truly I do.

    Yes, the Doctor's standing in the town square at noon waiting for the bad guy/antagonist to arrive as the rest of the town waits in eerie silence. Yes, it's a cliche, but it fits the moment.

    Why does a town with eighty-one people require a bank?

    Oh, it's twelve. The Doctor sonicked things into exploding as a banjo and choir kick into action. THis is awesome. Also, it was a distraction. And there are now three Carla's running around/. Or more. More. They're playing hide and go peek with Kryten. Also, someone turned his face too much and made Kryten realise "It's a trcik."

    Showdown in the OK Church. Little girl made a noise and now panic.

    I call heroic sacrifice. Any minute now. Sure the Doctor shoved him off (metaphircally), but he's coming back. Also, there was an empathic moment where Kryten depowered his gun because he looked at a little girl. Obvious reason is obvious.

    Oh. Carla is running away.

    K: "Deactivate automatic targeting. Switch to manual." Kryten confronts the Doctor and demands to know where Carla is etc. etc.

    Oh. It's an audio connection with a last moment of empathy. K: "I will find you. If I have to tear this universe apart, I will find you." And Carla talking about how no matter what other's will be brought into the fight.

    Suicide is good? Carla's killing himself to end the war. "I have to face the souls I have wronged. Perhaps they will be kind."

    Kryten vows to go self-destruct in the desert, "I am a creature of war, I have no place in a world of peace."

    D: "Except to protect it."

    Given there's a rapic cut to the Doctor trying to talk the Ponds into going on another trip (which they kindly refuse) Kryten's Marshall now.

    I really don't like that voiceover, even if that little girl in the church is the ancestor of voiceover lady. And Kryten is "their very own angel who fell from the stars."

    Scream Out!

    Preview Thoughts: Amy voiceover. And "the ytear of the slow invasion."

    R: "There are soldiers all over my house, and I'm in my pants" UK pants. That's undies. AND MR. WEASLEY'S BACK AGAIN!

    Best Moment: MORAL GREY AREAS ARE LIKE MEAT AND BREAD AND FIZZY POP TO ME GUYS.

    Also, I need to talk this out a lot down below as I have words upon words.

    Worst Moment: I really don't like the voiceovers at the beginning and end. I think the end is worst because of that cheesy Guardian Who Watches Over Us thing.

    There's good voiceovers and bad ones. That was a bad one. Also, she sounds eerily like River Song.

    But my Big Worst Moment is below. I had to edit it in because I forgot The Line in the wonderful grey areas.

    Best Actor: Three-way tie with the Doctor, Carla and Kryten. And seeing as I Googled to find out who played Carla, I found out it was Adrian Scarborough. This guy has won Laurence Olivier awards and has been in works that I greatly enjoyed. That was a pleasant surprise.

    Now, while that does makes me want to tip the balance more in favour of a two-way tie with Matt Smith, I do think that the guy who plays Kryten did well with his shtick. When he's sitting on his outcropping looking down at the town you can tell he really doesn't want to do this, but the revenge is just too compelling. While I do think the end was a little over-the-top, it still fit rather well in his depiction of a man pushed to the very limits of sanity by his need for revenge.

    But the Doctor and Carla, wow. Look, just wow. I don't think I need to say more about these two in particular as this is the meat of the episode I want to get into talking about down below, so let's just say that their interactions were very tense and there were several occasions where I was unnerved.

    Worst Actor: While in general the American accents just . . . probably were not good at all . . . I have to say the eighteen year old boy who tried to lead the lynch mob. He was very unrealistic, and was just too obviously acting to fit very well.

    Best Special Effect: Kryten cloaking and decloaking. It looked cool, and also felt and looked a little broken which fit the broken down appearance Kryten had.

    Worst Special Effect: if I'm honest, I don't think there were many good special effects in this episode at all. Not that they were bad, but they were sub-par and . . . average. I think Kryten's make up was worst because it felt really inconsistent, and I'm not sure why. It felt a little too made up more often than not.

    Most Punchable Character: Morally grey areas mean most people are punchable, but I think I will choose Amy for being so thick she couldn't figure out an attempted kidnapper when the prospective kidnapper held the gun directly to her face.

    Death Count: Considering it deals with the messy aftermath of a war? Presumably millions pre-episode, but only two in the episode proper.

    Kink of the Episode: Half-naked Rory. I consider the episode to be until the end of the credits.

    Was Not Expecting: Deliciously grey moral areas that will probably have people arguing over the 'correct' (note the quotation marks) way to solve the problem presented in the episode.

    Also, genre savvy Amy not realising she was being kidnapped? What the Hell Amy.

    Overall thoughts?
    First off: The Independt posted this review almost the second the episode was over and I read it while I was trying to find out who played Carla.
    It's a bit general in my opinion, but I do tend to agree with the general thrust. I love Carla and the Doctor throughout.

    But first: my niggles. Amy and Rory were extraneous. Completely. I did like the banter in the beginning, but for the most part, I . . . aside from Amy pulling a Donna on him, anyone could have done what they did.

    Also, wasn't the whole 'the Doctor is getting darker and darker' thing a Thing back with Ten? I like TVTropes, but when you stumble across references to the Time Lord Victorious and combine it with what I know of season four . . . how can I get deja vu without having seen season four properly?! OH RIGHT. SEASON SIX!

    Can we just have happy-go-lucky Doctors? Well, mostly happy-go-lucky Doctors.

    That said, I did like this episode quite a bit. Despite that, I think it's the weakest episode so far because I didn't really like the beginning bit until I saw the grey areas on the horizon, and well, the ending is definitely going to be a tricky issue because suicide is a tricky issue no matter what.

    When I say 'weakest so far' I do mean 'weakest upon immediate reflection'. While with 'Dinosaurs' Neffie just confused me more and more, and with 'Asylum' well, the ending, 'Mercy' just.

    I love the grey areas! I hated the voice overs, and the American accents did make me cringe a lot. Can I just say that the first ten minutes, and the last two or three are poor and bring down an otherwise very interesting episode?

    Yes? Yes. Good.

    So, grey areas. Make me happy as Larry. While it was obvious from basically the beginning that Carla wasn't good I was pleased to find out he was a mad scientist. Then he went from being just a good and kindly alien from outside space (a Doctor clone) to one who seemed to be trying to repent for his sins experimenting on people who are fully conscious to turn them into Terminators.

    It made you sympathise with Kryten, but you couldn't like any one of the pair because Carla is basically a war criminal and tried to justify his crimes after the fact - and to some extent you can see their motives behind creating Terminators - but at the same time, he has done good things.

    Similarly, you can well understand Kryten's desire for revenge, but not to the extent that it goes as far as hurting people not directly involved in the conflict.

    And the Doctor? Well. Talk about Carla driving him up the wall. Repeatedly. I believe he sympathises with all the sides in the conflict, and all he can do is try to moderate something with no clear-cut areas. Moreso when you think that Carla could be lying about Kryten being more than a rogue simulant. We know that Carla's likely to be telling the truth about Kryten hunting down scientists after he was meant to have been decommissioned seeing as we saw the beginning of the episode; but the Doctor doesn't know that.

    I very easily sympathise with the Doctor here because there's no easy solution. Well, except suicide, and I have a lot of things I could say about that, but aren't forum friendly due to Things. I will, however, say that I find it fitting that such a grey action is used to resolve such a troubled issue.

    This episode is a little clunky talking about the Doctor's prison in a town called Mercy (ha ha ha), but I can see what they're talking about. The Doctor often (especially as Ten) tries not to kill because he respects life, and in doing so he feels as though he's slighting the victims of his enemies. Here he tries to think of the victims first, but while Kryten is Carla's victim (as all the cyborgs are), everyone in Mercy is Kryten's victim. No matter what he chooses he feel 'bad', so tries to pick the most obvious victim; and well, in the end he can't just throw someone to the dogs. Especially when that final ultimatum comes.

    From there, I don't know, maybe the Doctor had plans to take Carla to face proper justics as opposed to a vigilante? I don't know. But he could no longer cater to someone who deliberately and aggressively brings 'innocents' into the fight.

    And also, though I said I found this the weakest episode so far, it's also very strong. If it wasn't so obvious from the beginning that Carla wasn't exactly who he said he was, and if it weren't for the ultimate beginning and end, I would very much be hailing this as amazing. Instead it's just very good overall, and amazing in the middle.

    Everything about this episode is grey except for the acting from the Our Boys, Carla and Kryten! Seriously, Carla's amazing, and I do like the intensity of the discussion he has with the Doctor that last night where they talk about guilt and all the souls harmed by their actions or inactions. I think that is flat out wonderful, even if it's too similar to 'The God Complex' which was also written by Toby Whithouse. Not necessarily bad, but well, why does the Doctor keep running into mirrors of himself? I think there's a theme coming.

    Also, the Sheriff was in Farscape which is really cool.

    EDIT: Yes, I forgot an Issue I wanted to mention. Carla's comment to Amy? Why did it pee me off? Because only mother's can have tenderness, sadness and ferocity in their eyes all at once? NO.
    While I think this is meant to be a compliment it rubbed me all the wrong ways. Not all mothers are ferocious (sometimes not even when their children are in danger or did something stupid), not all mothers are tender.
    If you make this comment of Amy - who certainly has reason to have sadness mentioned alongside her motherhood - so does Rory. Did he not feel and experience many of the same things Amy did? He. Did.

    Yes, there's the whole carried-the-baby-birthed-it-may-not-physically (perhaps)-have-children-again thing, but dad's also feel much of it too.
    Mother's are not paragons of virtue.

    Not all mother's feel these things.

    Men and women can feel these things at once regardless. Especially those in caring professions - nurses, doctors, teachers, social workers, police officers and everyone in the emergency services and normal services.
    By mentioning these qualities of Amy's - all of which I do agree she has - and then implying they are directly because of her motherhood/lack thereof (she technically didn't raise River, nor was she really aware of her pregnancy for the most part, so I'm thinking more along the lines of Amy perhaps being like a mother who miscarried/had a still birth/gave away her child for [reason]) is insulting to her as a person.

    See! This another of those Weird 'Feminist' Things That Are Meant To Be Positive that you see under Moffatt's reign. Like with Neffie last episode, or River in her entirety or . . .

    I'm not certain, but I think most of these moments of uncomfortableness happen when a male writes things. Maybe they're honestly meant to be compliments, but sometimes they just sound weird or feel wrong.

    This one got on my tits. Maybe not everyone feels that way, I have Issues and Buttons, and this pressed the wrong ones; but, argh. You can't just reduce emotions in females to mother/not-mother binaries like that. It's offensive.

    I'm certainly ferocious enough to tear into people; sometimes it's for family/children reasons, but often . . . did you not just read this rant? I'm empathic, but sometimes I'm not. Often I'm not.

    I'm a bit of a jerk.

    Nothing is clear cut when it comes to emotions and the reasons behind them. Don't break it down to mother/not-mother. Certainly people who have had children are likely to feel those things towards their children.

    Be they mother or father. Birth, surrogate or adopted.

    Siblings and relatives feel all these things too. You can't just say that kind of thing and then not expect eveyrone else who has ever cared about anyone to not feel insulted.
    Last edited by CurlyKitGirl; 2012-09-15 at 03:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by V'icternus View Post
    Why is it that you now scare me more than the possibility of nuclear war?
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    To compare [Curly] to the beauty of the changing seasons or timeless stars would be an understatement.
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    But Koorly is the sweetest crime.

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  27. - Top - End - #417
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Cen View Post
    yet still I know no person who would like "Love and Monsters". Or dislike Silence in the Library. ;-)
    And now you do. :). I am so looking forward to when I Curly-style the "hateful abomination" that nobody mentions in dislike lists so I can show you the true target to hate on.

    Mixed views, Tough crowd. Everyone tell me exactly why this ep was bad. Then I'll look at your comments and turn them into my review.

    Here is a list of all the Dr Who (New) eps worthy of a Sunken Valley 10/10. Apologies to all the 9/10s not on the list. Let me know if you think I'm missing anything and I can acknowledge that it's a 9.

    Rose
    Possibly Dalek
    Possibly Blink
    Midnight
    Turn Left
    Possibly Waters of Mars
    Doctor's Wife
    Town Called Mercy
    We're all in the Monster Manual somewhere. My entry is between Howler and Hydra.

    Unresolved Plot Point Collection Thread- For OOTS
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    It's nice to see someone saying it isn't for once, the forum IQ did just go up. Please have a cookie Sunken Valley.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry576 View Post
    I thought Sunken Valley eloquently covered the points I wanted to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Yes, exactly.

  28. - Top - End - #418
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I'm shocked by this episode. Its genuinely the first of Smith's I really enjoyed since the Lodger (and thats a special type of episode anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cen View Post
    yet still I know no person who would like "Love and Monsters". Or dislike Silence in the Library. ;-)
    I greatly dislike Silence in the Library and River Song episodes in general.
    Last edited by onasuma; 2012-09-15 at 04:02 PM.
    Thank Saturn for this avatar!

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by onasuma View Post
    I greatly dislike Silence in the Library and River Song episodes in general.
    Same here, actually. Well, "greatly dislike" may be a bit strong, but it certainly isn't amongst my favourites.

    "Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot" - N.Gaiman, The Sandman

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    well ok - regarding my previous post - I don't actually count SitL as 'River Song' episode, because it was before River was MarySue'd with 11, I count it as 'fabolous Donna' episode

    Mercy:
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    Soooo is it just my impression or is Carla very very very similiar with The Doctor, but on a little bit smaller scale?
    Carla created cyborgs who killed milions to save bilions
    Doctor created The Moment and killed bilions to save trilions

    like... to much similiar? I regred it wasn't explored more ;((
    Last edited by Cen; 2012-09-15 at 05:31 PM.

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