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  1. - Top - End - #721
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee View Post
    I find the difference meaningful. We obviously wouldn't see them live out their natural lives on screen as a practical notion as they are still young actors and so forth. However set off in a way that gives them the most important thing (each other) is what I require and its what they recieved.
    I actually agree wholeheartedly with this. Yeah, okay, so I personally prefer the big action scene - sue me, it's personal preference! - but at no point did I ever suggest that they should be split up. Whatever happened, Amy and Rory deserved to go out together. They'd both earned that, and in that aspect at least what we got was appropriate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee View Post
    I can loosely prefer it happen at home but that's really a detail since Moffrat never really built that tertiary ring of people the way Davies did. We only now met Rory's dad, Amy IIRC lived alone, we never really saw friend of their's. I feel bad for Rory's dad, but its not some horrible thing. The easier solution would be not introducing him.
    For me, that's another problem with what's been a disappointing season thus far. Introducing Rory's Dad and making him, frankly, brilliant... and then what? It's like the divorce sub-plot. Introduced, poked enough to make you think it might be going somewhere, and then nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee View Post
    This is workable-ish because you just change the final scene... but I dare say I think you'd be complaining about that if you got it.
    With respect, this is where you don't understand me at all. I want a satisfying resolution to the story of Amy and Rory. Them living out their lives with the people they love, even if they can never again travel in the TARDIS? I'd find that wonderfully appropriate. Much more so than having them lose everyone and everything they've ever cared about (with the sole exception of each other). I'd not have complained about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee View Post
    Why them and not everyone there involved? The Doctor and River have freaky timelord immunity? Not that what we got keeps isn't without its logical flaws but here... what then keeps the Doctor from visiting them? Are we going into being even more arbitrary they can't even be near him or time-wimey-boom?

    Its not like a good portion of the show hasn't always taken place in the 'present' time.
    All of which is a big part of why I think the actual end to their story made no sense. If we're going to do a timey-wimey handwave as to why the Doctor can't go and find them agian, at least make it a timey-wimey handwave that doesn't end with two great characters vanishing for no adequately explained reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee View Post
    Egads how terrible for a Doctor Who episode. Violence is the resolution? ICK!

    No offense but this is an example of why I firmly believe fans are on the whole... terrible writers. Fandom ideas always seem to run to being bigger and actiony and 'epic' whatever the object of the fandom is. Which is a especially bad for DW, though far from the only case.
    For the record, saying "no offence" and then essentially saying that my ideas and opinion are horrible - it's pretty hard not to take offence at that. I can respect that you don't think my ideas are brilliant. There is a reason I'm not a writer on Doctor Who, and I can appreciate that 99 times out of 100 the writers will come up with something infinitely better than I could have imagined. And at no point am I saying otherwise.
    What I am saying is that I found the end of Amy and Rory's story horribly disappointing. I'm throwing out a handful of random ideas and yes, perhaps they're not brilliant, but any of these would have been infinitely more satisfying than what we got. "Zap, boom, they're gone forever" is not a satisfying end to the story of two beloved characters for reason both in-universe (them losing everyone they ever loved) and from the fan perspective (they vanish and die and all we get is a note, nothing more). Could the story have been worse? Absolutely. Are my suggestions inherently better? Not at all. But of all the ways they could have ended the Ponds' story, I cannot believe this is the best way. Or even one of the better ways.
    ...but of course that's just my opinion.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee View Post
    Egads how terrible for a Doctor Who episode. Violence is the resolution? ICK!

    No offense but this is an example of why I firmly believe fans are on the whole... terrible writers. Fandom ideas always seem to run to being bigger and actiony and 'epic' whatever the object of the fandom is. Which is a especially bad for DW, though far from the only case.
    Ok, while I agree with some of your points, this one confused me. Violence is the resolution to just about every other Doctor Who episode. How is one more somehow terrible?

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by NikitaDarkstar View Post
    Technically Rose's ending wasn't bad, it was the Doctors reaction to it that made me just want to stab something. (Moping for an ENTIRE season? Really? Even if I don't like Martha I felt bad for her ending up being a rebound-companion.) But the send-off itself wasn't bad, but the moping could have ended after "I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye".
    Agreed, thus my parenthetical caveat.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Tergon View Post
    I actually agree wholeheartedly with this. Yeah, okay, so I personally prefer the big action scene - sue me, it's personal preference! - but at no point did I ever suggest that they should be split up. Whatever happened, Amy and Rory deserved to go out together. They'd both earned that, and in that aspect at least what we got was appropriate.
    Well we share that at least. To me though they needed to survive too. That's the pay off, that's what they worked for. Because its been crazy enough without that.

    Which I think then poses certain issues. We both seem to agree also they would not 'quit' the Doctor. Well I think Rory would but Amy wouldn't, but the two together means it comes to the same thing. So you need some reason why the Doctor can't be with them. No way to do that isn't pure BS, if only because well let's face it do you believe anything is impossible for the Doctor to pull off? So when he can't its some measure of inherently arbitrary.


    For me, that's another problem with what's been a disappointing season thus far. Introducing Rory's Dad and making him, frankly, brilliant... and then what? It's like the divorce sub-plot. Introduced, poked enough to make you think it might be going somewhere, and then nothing.
    I suspect its one of those accidents of the screen. Where maybe the writing wasn't intending it, but the actor stepped up and somehow managed to bat it out of the park.

    I've had vague disappointments from the whole Moffrat period, I can't say I can really single out now. Which is a shame since individual bits can be quite good, its the plot arc I've issue with. I love pretty much all the characters in their basic chemistry with one another.
    With respect, this is where you don't understand me at all. I want a satisfying resolution to the story of Amy and Rory. Them living out their lives with the people they love, even if they can never again travel in the TARDIS? I'd find that wonderfully appropriate. Much more so than having them lose everyone and everything they've ever cared about (with the sole exception of each other). I'd not have complained about that.
    Okay not you, but in general. I'd like them to be at home, but I can't escape that the Ponds being separated from the Doctor as some specific condition to the two of them would feel really really arbitrary. And probably lack that finality even more.

    Conceptually I think there's just no way to have our cake and eat it too here while still being a reasonable story (which the episode was)

    All of which is a big part of why I think the actual end to their story made no sense. If we're going to do a timey-wimey handwave as to why the Doctor can't go and find them agian, at least make it a timey-wimey handwave that doesn't end with two great characters vanishing for no adequately explained reason.
    Technically they vanished for a well established reason.

    Timey-wimey only enters with the Doctor not be able to go get them. Even that has some precedent, where almost seeing a localized version of the Time War here, damaging spacetime enough to make it impossible to travel to. That the angels cause this isn't nessecarily a big stretch for what they were doing.

    Biggest leap is perhaps the organization for them to set up the farm. But then I think they've always been a little above a simple predator. Certainly like this use of them over the last one, much more like their first appearance.

    For the record, saying "no offence" and then essentially saying that my ideas and opinion are horrible - it's pretty hard not to take offence at that. I can respect that you don't think my ideas are brilliant. There is a reason I'm not a writer on Doctor Who, and I can appreciate that 99 times out of 100 the writers will come up with something infinitely better than I could have imagined. And at no point am I saying otherwise.
    Well be offended then, I just wanted to let you know its less about your ideas in particular and more my pet peeves.

    Still I just see in fandom (every fandom, as a phenomena, pan subject matter) tends to some high percentage of the time tends to come up with the same idea. Bigger and epic-er, everyone gets to be a badass, live happily ever after, or both.

    I just don't hear calls for a quiet mildly tragic story with the same frequency.

    "Zap, boom, they're gone forever" is not a satisfying end to the story of two beloved characters for reason both in-universe (them losing everyone they ever loved) and from the fan perspective (they vanish and die and all we get is a note, nothing more). Could the story have been worse? Absolutely.
    Here's where we disagree. They were set up as leaving dramatically, with the notes on age and the like. The trouble with getting to NYC at the time period was built throughout the episode, there was ample foreshadowing in the episode of what's going to happen.

    Now its very knife twisting to let you think its all over, but then when they haven't it all falls back into place. But nothing like a spot of hope to be ripped asunder for true despair.

    And the final blow is rather appropriate... the enemy you cannot see coming is the one that will get you sooner or later.

    (More I get over it the more I like it actually)

    I think if I change something I might have knicked Amy in the graveyard. Not just twist the knife but put some barbs in it.

  5. - Top - End - #725
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I may have said this before..but I would really have liked Rory to go out in a manner worthy of a 2000-year-old centurion.. and get a big statue somewhere nice.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I just finished season 5 of the reboot and have started season 6. I have to say that I like the 11th doctor more than the 10th, but I liked Donna a lot more than Amy and Rory (who feels like the new Micky the Idiot. I knew Micky the Idiot sir, and you are not fit to stand in his tin dog pants!)

    I like them more than Martha Jones, and I feel like they are just slightly below Rose. Probably because Rose was almost an ensemble, while the two of them have just been themselves.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I just finished season 5 of the reboot and have started season 6. I have to say that I like the 11th doctor more than the 10th, but I liked Donna a lot more than Amy and Rory (who feels like the new Micky the Idiot. I knew Micky the Idiot sir, and you are not fit to stand in his tin dog pants!)

    I like them more than Martha Jones, and I feel like they are just slightly below Rose. Probably because Rose was almost an ensemble, while the two of them have just been themselves.
    Alright, personally, I like Rory more than the Idiot, cause for a lot of it I actually thought of him as an Idiot. Really man, you'd think he'd get the picture that Rose wasn't into him after I don't know the 3rd time she picked the Doctor over him. But then I was not a fan of Rose at all anyway. Anyway they kind of drop the Idiot/Rory comparisons and start turning Rory into a memetic badass, it wasn't until the end of Season 5 that I started liking him at all.

    But yeah Donna was pretty awesome. I can't help but notice you're missing Wilf, the Amazing, on your list of companions though.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    Alright, personally, I like Rory more than the Idiot, cause for a lot of it I actually thought of him as an Idiot. Really man, you'd think he'd get the picture that Rose wasn't into him after I don't know the 3rd time she picked the Doctor over him. But then I was not a fan of Rose at all anyway. Anyway they kind of drop the Idiot/Rory comparisons and start turning Rory into a memetic badass, it wasn't until the end of Season 5 that I started liking him at all.

    But yeah Donna was pretty awesome. I can't help but notice you're missing Wilf, the Amazing, on your list of companions though.
    The thing about the Idiot was he was actually comical at some points; I fell out of my chair when he said "I'm the tin dog." With Rory all of the jealous boyfriend crap had already been done, so I felt like I had to rewatch the more boring bits of seasons 1 and 2 again.

    I thought Wilf being near the top went without saying anything :D

    I also didn't mention Dr. Song, because her plot line is, to me, extremely boring and predictable.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I also didn't mention Dr. Song, because her plot line is, to me, extremely boring and predictable.
    Don't worry, it gets more boring and predictable. (or so other people say)
    Last edited by Androgeus; 2012-10-10 at 05:11 PM.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    How long did it take Mickey to come into his own, though? Rory is more an attachment than his own character in S5, but really hits his stride in 6.

    Speaking of River, it's interesting how the consensus on her most recent appearance is that she's a lot better when they tone down the Sue-ism. You're getting into a lot of her being really annoying, but I want to see how the rest of her story progresses before closing the book on her.

    To tie off the companion apologetics, I wonder how Martha would have worked if she got a whole arc. One gets the feeling that they intended her to have more development, only to cut it short when people fell in love with Donna. Not saying I'm not happy we got Donna (Tenant and Tate played off of each other marvelously), just curious how Martha would have been received if the rest of her development weren't sprinkled through S4 and a bit of Torchwood.

  11. - Top - End - #731
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    Don't worry, it gets more boring and predictable. (or so other people say)
    or, it already has been..depending on whose timeline you're following
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I think the biggest problem with Martha was that Davies never got around to figuring out who she was supposed to be as a character beyond "she has a crush on the Doctor," which just is not enough substance to support an entire character. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Martha the way I do Russell Tyl- I mean, Rose T. Dav- I mean, where was I going with that? Oh, right. I just found Martha kind of uninteresting. Ultimately forgettable. (Though still a blessed relief from The Abominable One.)
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I think we all can agree on that Donna was The Best Companion In All Of New Who. And just a little after her - Badass Rory.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Cen View Post
    I think we all can agree on that Donna was The Best Companion In All Of New Who. And just a little after her - Badass Rory.
    I'm sorry I cannot agree.
    1) Wilf
    2) Donna=Rory, ones funnier the other is well, awesome.

    Mind you, if I was just going by season 5 It'd be:
    1) Wilf 2) Donna 3) The Other Doctor 4) Amy 5) Rory 6) Martha 7) Mickey 8) Rose's Mom 9) Rose

    I think the general trend being that as far as it goes the later the better, with Amy and Rory not quite living up to the awesome that was the Donna family, but it's forgivable since they're new.

    After getting caught up, bump Rory= Donna, Amy better than The Other Doctor. I just really enjoyed how well Amy, Rory, and 11 played off each other. And they each took a few levels of badass, emotionally and physically.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    So, I'm sorta curious about Doctor Who, but with all of the different series out there I guess the question is; just where do I start?
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Not only is the new run nicely self-contained, with references to the old run but no required foreknowledge, but seasons five onward (we're halfway through season seven as we speak) don't depend too much on the prior seasons either. Probably has to do with a change in head writers and the new dude wanting to go his own way.

    Easiest way to get in involves either signing up for a one month Netflix trial subscription, or the one month Amazon Prime trial. Either will allow you to stream seasons 1-6 of the new run, as well as a handful of stories from the old series. Then you can either start with Rose (recommended, first episode of the new run), or The Eleventh Hour (first episode with the new guy).

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    Not only is the new run nicely self-contained, with references to the old run but no required foreknowledge, but seasons five onward (we're halfway through season seven as we speak) don't depend too much on the prior seasons either. Probably has to do with a change in head writers and the new dude wanting to go his own way.

    Easiest way to get in involves either signing up for a one month Netflix trial subscription, or the one month Amazon Prime trial. Either will allow you to stream seasons 1-6 of the new run, as well as a handful of stories from the old series. Then you can either start with Rose (recommended, first episode of the new run), or The Eleventh Hour (first episode with the new guy).
    Agreed. There's a lot of good stuff in the old Who, but there's a lot of weak stuff, too, and with twenty-six years of the stuff it's wildly easy to get overwhelmed. Knowing the classic stuff lets you get some of the little winks that the new series hands out, but is absolutely not necessary.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Cen View Post
    I think we all can agree on that Donna was The Best Companion In All Of New Who. And just a little after her - Badass Rory.
    I think you're hilariously wrong.
    I mean, I'm sure some people agree with you, but nowhere near all of us.
    (For the record, Rory is the best companion, and after him I'm not sure in what order I'd rank them, but Donna, Amy, Jack, Wilf and Brian all spring to mind)

    @Astrella: Either start with the first episode of the revival (Also known as 'Nu Who'), Rose, with Christopher Eccleston as the Doctor; or the first episode of series 5 of the revival, The Eleventh Hour, with Matt Smith as the Doctor. If you start at series 5 you'll miss a few odd references here and there, but nothing that significant, and of course you'll then have less to watch to catch up to the most recent stuff (We're currently at a break in the middle of series 7).
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Cen View Post
    I think we all can agree on that Donna was The Best Companion In All Of New Who. And just a little after her - Badass Rory.
    Well obviously not everyone but I certainly agree. Though maybe having Rory a little farther back.

    This is rather like asking who is best Doctor.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    About Wilf - why so many people like him? for most of the time he was just useless mumbling idiot who because of his stupidity killed Tenth'ant. Seriously I can't think of any occasion when he had done something smart or was at least usefull.

    Brian it not really a companion...

    Amy... eh, I was sick of her and perhaps I'm only person here who is glad she is gone for good now... I can't teally tell why I dislike her, It's probably something with her kissing Doctor just before her wedding...

    and Jack... yeah, he was great, I'd like to have him back ;-)

    also - why everyone hates End of Time so much? I've watched it yesterday (finally!) and... I don't get it. Of course it was not some very good story,full of asspulls, Rasillion was... well just standing and doing nothing, Master was more insane then ever and completely different character from his two-parter... but I can think of at least half a dozen stories that were worse... Why the hate, am I missing something?
    Last edited by Cen; 2012-10-11 at 10:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Cen View Post
    also - why everyone hates End of Time so much? I've watched it yesterday (finally!) and... I don't get it. Of course it was not some very good story,full of asspulls, Rasillion was... well just standing and doing nothing, Master was more insane then ever and completely different character from his two-parter... but I can think of at least half a dozen stories that were worse... Why the hate, am I missing something?
    Well, I can't speak for everyone, but for me...

    (Spoilers for a few people who I think haven't watched End of Time yet.)
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    1) It really ruined the Master, in several ways. In addition to making him wildly insane in several new and exciting ways each scene, it retconned his entire insanity as being a result of the Time War, which was boring and dumb. It also gave him a redemption moment, after going quite far out of their way to make it clear that he didn't believe in those.
    2) Time Lords as hilariously cacklingly evil was boring. Not desperate, or authoritarian, no, Rassilon was just "And now I am EVIL for the sake of MUWAHAHAH". It was atrocious characterization.
    3) The Woman In White was too important to the plot to remain as mysterious as she did.
    4) The special effects were just atrocious.
    5) The writing was extremely bad.
    6) The Doctor's extended send-off, where he went to visit his old companions, was equally bad, and was filled with things that I will forever consider non-canon. Jack was about the only companion with an interesting send-off moment.
    7) The Doctor's moping really hit a fever pitch, to a degree that it actually felt more like a tantrum than anything else. Compared to how literally every other Doctor has gone, it was extremely jarring.
    8) Asspulls everywhere, as you mentioned. The Donna thing was particularly bad, as was Wilf dooming the Doctor through a machine that no one would ever, ever build. Ever. EVER.
    9) It was the LAST EPISODE of Tennant! They had a chance to break the bank, pull together tons of things and do something wonderful. Instead, Davies destroyed the Time Lords entirely, poisoned both their storylines and the Master's for anyone who came afterwards, made his doctor so morose that I was actually rooting for him to go ahead and die already, and turned every emotional moment into a laughable one.

    It was one of the worst episodes of NewWho ever, and it should have been one of the best. The degree of seperation between those poles turns it from merely awful into actively hateful.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I never got that either. The End of Time is a little disappointing but only one thing in ever crossed into outright stupidity for me and its minor for that. (a certain presidential bit... no more need be said on this board despite having nothing to do with politics)

    I suppose that it would have been nice for Ten to have had a better send-off or the return of the Time Lords to be "bigger" or whatever, but I consider the real grand finale to have been before that anyways so its fine. Not best episode ever but still nowhere near the bottom.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Friv View Post
    Well, I can't speak for everyone, but for me...

    (Spoilers for a few people who I think haven't watched End of Time yet.)
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    1) It really ruined the Master, in several ways. In addition to making him wildly insane in several new and exciting ways each scene, it retconned his entire insanity as being a result of the Time War, which was boring and dumb. It also gave him a redemption moment, after going quite far out of their way to make it clear that he didn't believe in those.
    2) Time Lords as hilariously cacklingly evil was boring. Not desperate, or authoritarian, no, Rassilon was just "And now I am EVIL for the sake of MUWAHAHAH". It was atrocious characterization.
    3) The Woman In White was too important to the plot to remain as mysterious as she did.
    4) The special effects were just atrocious.
    5) The writing was extremely bad.
    6) The Doctor's extended send-off, where he went to visit his old companions, was equally bad, and was filled with things that I will forever consider non-canon. Jack was about the only companion with an interesting send-off moment.
    7) The Doctor's moping really hit a fever pitch, to a degree that it actually felt more like a tantrum than anything else. Compared to how literally every other Doctor has gone, it was extremely jarring.
    8) Asspulls everywhere, as you mentioned. The Donna thing was particularly bad, as was Wilf dooming the Doctor through a machine that no one would ever, ever build. Ever. EVER.
    9) It was the LAST EPISODE of Tennant! They had a chance to break the bank, pull together tons of things and do something wonderful. Instead, Davies destroyed the Time Lords entirely, poisoned both their storylines and the Master's for anyone who came afterwards, made his doctor so morose that I was actually rooting for him to go ahead and die already, and turned every emotional moment into a laughable one.

    It was one of the worst episodes of NewWho ever, and it should have been one of the best. The degree of seperation between those poles turns it from merely awful into actively hateful.
    I agree with all your points actually. Every single one of them added up to make it an awkward, plot-hole filled episode. But I don't quite agree with your reaction to it. Awful yes, but I wouldn't go as far as actively hating it.
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    And most points can be retconned if anyone ever wants to. If the time lords are brought back replacing Rassilon is fully possible. The Master? Went more bonkers than normal because of that botched regeneration/resurrection/whatever the heck that was. He's back to more manageable levels. Granted the drums thing is hard to fix, but can at least be ignored now since the moment they were leading up to has passed, so the "signal" should be gone now. (We can also throw in that he never noticed it until recently because the event was just so far off before. At least something like that keeps the classic Master intact.)
    It'd be sort of funny if 11th or maybe the future 12th (whenever he shows up :p) comments on how bloody sentimental he was back then. Doesn't change anything but it'd make me giggle.


    But yhea, it's not impossible to do damage control if it ever becomes necessary.

  24. - Top - End - #744
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    I disliked End of Time, mostly because it was just a meh episode with the Master as a lightning monster and the worst denouement ever, of all time. Oh it wasn't all bad, the "Get down" line was pretty good, but overall whenever I think back at this episode I think of that denouement. Hell, I really liked Tennant's run, I thought he was great at the Doctor and I remember yelling at the screen "Just die already!"

    Seriously, I like this version better.

  25. - Top - End - #745
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Cen View Post
    About Wilf - why so many people like him? for most of the time he was just useless mumbling idiot who because of his stupidity killed Tenth'ant. Seriously I can't think of any occasion when he had done something smart or was at least usefull.

    Brian it not really a companion...

    Amy... eh, I was sick of her and perhaps I'm only person here who is glad she is gone for good now... I can't teally tell why I dislike her, It's probably something with her kissing Doctor just before her wedding...

    and Jack... yeah, he was great, I'd like to have him back ;-)

    also - why everyone hates End of Time so much? I've watched it yesterday (finally!) and... I don't get it. Of course it was not some very good story,full of asspulls, Rasillion was... well just standing and doing nothing, Master was more insane then ever and completely different character from his two-parter... but I can think of at least half a dozen stories that were worse... Why the hate, am I missing something?
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    Wilf got the tenth doctor killed, and he was a male character who wasn't a complete idiot like the others usually start out. That is good enough for me! (I really hated the tenth doctor by the end.)

    I didn't like End of Time because it felt like a tack on. Everyone had gathered together to beat the Dalek super-plan that had been building over the season, and then dispersed to their homes. But since the doctor didn't die, they chose to put another mini-saga that would get him killed.

    I also hate the way that the 10th doctor (the genocide machine) refuses to kill the Master no matter how many people he kills. What happened to "I don't give second chances?" I thought it was him just being racist ("But this is a Time Lord!") but then he was very willing to wipe out the other Time Lords.

  26. - Top - End - #746
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    ElfRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
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    I also hate the way that the 10th doctor (the genocide machine) refuses to kill the Master no matter how many people he kills. What happened to "I don't give second chances?" I thought it was him just being racist ("But this is a Time Lord!") but then he was very willing to wipe out the other Time Lords.
    Because when push comes to shove he actually cares about the Master?

  27. - Top - End - #747
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Cen View Post
    Amy... eh, I was sick of her and perhaps I'm only person here who is glad she is gone for good now... I can't teally tell why I dislike her, It's probably something with her kissing Doctor just before her wedding...
    I know!

    She never grows as a character (except in Big Bang). She never has any particular character development and only has four settings on her face: Pouty, Flirty, Curious and Annoyed. This isnt depending on the writer. Rory has grown. Between Rusty written eps his companions grow. She doesn't learn any thing from her travels and is still the same person who got on the TARDIS with the Doctor in Eleventh Hour.

    She also keeps trying to have her cake and eat it. She's always trying to manipulate the doctor into doing what she wants him to do and yet professes a "love" for Rory which is flawed. If she shut up for a minute we would not have to put up with her questions.

    What is her personallity? What does she like? What are her hopes? Her dreams? Her character? Witty/Sexy doesn't count. All she is a pair of legs with an attitude. Does she have a proper occupation or skill set? Yes, about the same as Mike Meyers did in "So I Married an Axe Murderer". None!

    She's a mother? Really, I say no. Having a kid doesn't make you a mother. It just makes you a heartless parent when you just go "meh" at losing your daughter. Your only daughter you will have.

    Amy doesn't love Rory. Rory has done so many sacrifices for her and she doesn't repay him. Take her pointless divorce. She obviously never talked to Rory first about what they really want. She just took the most damaging action and kicked him out. Selfish. And all the times she hits him. What if it was the other way round? What then?
    We're all in the Monster Manual somewhere. My entry is between Howler and Hydra.

    Unresolved Plot Point Collection Thread- For OOTS
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCat View Post
    It's nice to see someone saying it isn't for once, the forum IQ did just go up. Please have a cookie Sunken Valley.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry576 View Post
    I thought Sunken Valley eloquently covered the points I wanted to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Yes, exactly.

  28. - Top - End - #748
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Amy has absolutely grown since she first got on the TARDIS. True it's mostly been in her relationship to Rory, but growth is growth.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Quote Originally Posted by Xondoure View Post
    Amy has absolutely grown since she first got on the TARDIS. True it's mostly been in her relationship to Rory, but growth is growth.
    But she still has her obsession with the Doctor, her "raggedy-man", which might be cute in a young girl, and slightly childish in a teenager. But an adult, married woman? There's something damn creepy about that (And I really don't blame Rory for having jealousy issues, if anything I wonder why he hasn't divorced her by now since it's made clear he was basically just a "Doctor substitute" from day one.).

    She's a somewhat fun character yes, and she's had some development here and there yes, but she still keeps insisting on being an immature child on a fairly regular basis and I actually am glad her run is over. It was fun, but after season 6 I found myself wishing for someone new.

    On the other hand, I will miss Rory, he's had far more development and it feels like it could have been very interesting to see him without Amy, at least for a while.

  30. - Top - End - #750
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

    Wasn't the whole point of The God Complex was to break the obsession with the Doctor? And her staying on Earth with Rory and actually considering not to go adventuring with him any longer one of the major plot points of this season? Also as to Rory being a Doctor substitute I thought that was handled way back with Amy's Choice, and emphasized again when telling her daughter stories about the man whose going to rescue them, and again in their last episode. Yes he started that way, but by the end, no. She's "Rory's Queen."

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