Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

[Soras Teva Gee]

What exactly is the grounds one should insult a person on I wonder?

Oh that's right... none.

So let's make every piece of entertainment an intolerant sanitized piece of squeaky clean garbage where nothing bad happens so nobody's feelings get hurt.

Or Sunken Valley you might try not making something out of nothing.

[Sunken Valley]

What exactly is the grounds one should insult a person on I wonder?

Oh that's right... none.

So let's make every piece of entertainment an intolerant sanitized piece of squeaky clean garbage where nothing bad happens so nobody's feelings get hurt.

Or Sunken Valley you might try not making something out of nothing.

It is something. I saw the children. And I'm sure thats going to happen 20-30 more times across the globe.
The point is that the episode would not have been changed at all if they removed the line. If the Doctor had said "Shut up, You're not the clever one I'm the clever one so don't try." That would have been fine. Instead the Doctor went out of his way to insult Strax based on his physical disability, when Strax had not done anything similar.

I am not asking for every piece of entertainment to be garbage. I am just asking for shows to not encourage imitative behaviour by being needlessly and pointlessly ABLEIST!!!

Thank you

[Soras Teva Gee]

Oh but you are you see. Allow me to demonstrate:

"Doctor Who is morally repugnant. It's "companions" are clearly are a paper thin disguise for disposable sluts that live in sin with a man they are neither related to nor married to. Doctor Who is symptomatic of moral degeneracy and an attack on family values everywhere. They don't even dress properly. And let's not get started on this Jack Harkness... no child should ever watch such an unwholesome program!"

The difference between my rant there and yours? I think I didn't include a fancy "-ism" to make trendy and portable for ones outrage.

Oh and some entirely subjective judgements on the slippery ideas of "right" and "wrong" and what is appropriate to be shown on television.

Both share that they are calls for censorship and an attempt to enforce a arbitrary sentiment on anyone that doesn't agree. Both also share that I don't approve of either.

If your really hurt that bad, go watch something else. You won't find sympathy for it from me though.

Now then... back to discussion

[CurlyKitGirl]

This is a point which I will definitely accept as a general criticism of current Doctor Who - things aren't given enough time to sink in/be properly developed/whatever.

Not only is it annoying because some of these things that are glossed over demand more time to develop, but it gives me the impression that Nu Who writers want to write serials a la Classic Who but are restricted to one or two-parters by executives or other designs.
I mean, how often have people in this thread commented on how an episode could have been so much better as a two-parter or more?
If something feels incomplete or undeveloped I'll still like the story, but it won't be a full or good as it good have been. So much potential wasted. The Year of the Slow Invasion could have been an overarching theme for the first half of the season! Have Rory or Amy or someone be playing with a black cube, or using it as a paperweight in 'Aslyum of the Daleks' when the Doctor pops in to visit/take them on a trip, he'll ask what they are, and [person] will say "Oh, they've been around for a few months, bit of a fad really." Have the Doctor take one, or just not really notice. If the former it's just there being a paperweight or balance or whatnot.
Thus when the 'Power of Three' actually happened it'd be that all the cubes suddenly activated for seven minutes, and the Doctor comes along. A few weeks/a month/whatever passes and nothing else, but UNIT comes a-calling and then Events.
Yeah, RTD's method of foreshadowing could have been a good way to build up the threat of the Slow Invasion and actually give it impact at the end. He was good at that sometimes.

...you tried to sell yourself into slavery that one time in the Star Wars game in Peterborough...

Ah, but I was the one doing it, rather than caving to a male's demands. Also I had a plan. Or three. Remember, this is the girl who Bluffed/Commanded her way through an entire space station with no one noticing.
Wait, you weren't there for that game (were you?), no use of OOC knowledge allowed!
Also it seemed like a good idea at the time and whatnot.

On the special: I liked it. I thought it was fun, Clara seems interesting, and Strax is basically the best companion of all time. I hope they don't overuse him, but I hope even further that they have him show up a couple more times.

In the preview of season 7b I saw a shot of Strax and a shot of Mme. Vastra and Jenny. They're back for at least an episode.

On sexism. I don't think I'm qualified to make a good defense for or rebuttal against the howlings of "sexism" I will just say I don't see it myself. I also find it ironic on the point of defining a character through males/marriage when the longest standing male character of Moffat's run has been almost completely defined by his dedication to one girl and their marriage, it just also leads him into being a badass.

I just think the man likes marriage/romance.

This. Call it a trope, or a characteristic of Moffat's writing. Like David Eddings and most of his characters being direct expies of one another, or sarcasm.

On a sidenote.. Curly.. your avatar, nickname and gender indication confuse the crap out of me (and I have a strong feeling of deja vù as I say so.. I must have had this confusion cleared up once before already)

A bit this:

I thought she changed it while going through a second Doctor serial (the one with the cybermen and the lady she called "Miss Legs"), because the women in it were so useless she felt disillusioned with her own gender.

But mostly because my previous avvie was a genderflipped version of me, then I switched to Curly!Freddie, but kept forgetting to change my gender icon to male.
So someone in RB referred to me as 'he', and then someone said 'you do know she's a girl right', so he said something about male avvies being for males, so I decided to do a leetle bit of trolling.
And now I really just keep forgetting to change the gender icon around because I tend to look at people's avvies/names, and usually I recognise the person using them so I know their preferred gender identification. If not, I do admit I default to male if I can't find any other hint.

But I was also reviewing 'The Invasion' at the time as well, and I was very frustrated with Miss Legs. To the point where I would have ordered her back to the kitchen where she belonged.

In fact, if anyone's upset about Moffat's 'sexism', you should see the documentary on the old series. One of the original writers just outright states that, for him, the role of women in Doctor Who was to look pretty, scream for help, and get rescued.

Name of the documentary? Not for essays or argument's sake, just because it's Doctor Who. And which writer, because clearly that opinion changed when you get to Ace who, if I'm honest, isn't conventionally attractive, and neither does she seem the type of person inclined to scream for help constantly.
It's one of the nice things about such long running shows in a way, you can see society change. Just like how in ST: TOS all the girls were their mini-skirts, but that had changed by the time the movies came out ten years after the show was cancelled. And then they tried to put boys in the short skirts in TNG (at least down in Engineering), and then it failed, and they just went with the suits.

Oh Doctor, finally saw the christmas special and at least skimmed the last pages. But I'm too lazy to quote everything, so I'll try to keep the few things I have left to say short.

But first, last few notes directed at Curly

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Cole was Phoebe's half-demon long-term love interest in Charmed. But let's say he wanted to keep the relationship up longer than her. And it turned kind of creepy.

I thought so! Phoebe was always attracted to demons wasn't she? I remember a Balthazar in there late on.

Regarding Pratchett. While all his books are at least good I still feel the last three or so have been noticably less awesome than previous books. (And while I like Nightwatch there are other books I like more. Though maybe I just need to give it another read. But I got Long Earth and other books to read, so it won't be too soon, I'm afraid) While I prefer the "normal" books over the Tiffany series there is the passage in Wintersmith where Tiffany explains her dad how she, a 12-ish year old girl, has to take care of dying/dead people on a regular basis that just affects me much more than I expect everytime. Wait, Who thread, right!

Well, you can understand why his last three books aren't up to Pratchett!standard, but I still think they're better than a lot of recent fantasy books. But I'm a die hard fan here - with the exception of Equal Rites, but I've not read that book in . . . six years, so it might be worth another go.
And oh, I remember that scene in Wintersmith, I feel the same. And then that scene with the poker and the Baron in the beginning, and the description of his death, and the end bit with the fire. He might not be amazing in every book, but when he gets it right, you never forget.
Oh right. Doctor Who. That show we watch, and that I go into silly depths when talking about.

And now on to Snowmen.

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Strax was entertaining but in his first scene with the memory worm I found his stupidity a bit grating. I prefer the sassy "human scum" and "Mr Holmes" variety over "duuuh, forgot the gauntlets AGAIN". He had some of the best lines, though.

Yep. Strax. And this is why he was such a hit in 'A Good Man Goes to War' even though he had maybe seven minutes of screen time. He's such a fantastic straight man.

Our married couple was quite... underwhelming. Apart from the interrogation with Clara which was much more her moment to shine they only had the scene with Walter at the beginning. But "A WOMAN!" was pretty funny for me.

Which is why I'm hoping when they come back there's more time to focus on them as supporting characters, but I still stand by my belief that the One Word Answer scene is one of the most compelling and powerful scenes in the entire special and displayed Mme. Vastra's intelligence and emotions very well.

Before I say a few words on Clara (ha, who am I kidding?) just a short note on "MOFFAT!" (imagine Shatner-level hammy screaming here) moments. First was like five minutes in, in front of the estate when Grant and Walter talk about the dead Governess and KEEP SAYING POND! Okay, yeah, she drowned in a pond but Moffat, do you think us imbeciles?! Do you think we wouldn't pick up on you poking your cute, little, burning needles probing our fresh wounds? Tsk. Of course it would have to serve some purpose later. (Either Moffat plans quite a bit ahead or we can be glad Amy's last name wasn't Sink or something even less fitting) I didn't expect it as Clara's response, though. I guess it was somehow Dalek!Clara's memory? Did she know the Ponds' not-last name? Probably, Eleven likes to say it.

Yeah, it was a bit blunt force trauma to the face at the beginning. And as for how Clara!Oswin knew how to say 'Pond', I'm going with ripple memory or something along those lines. And it had better turn out to be true or I'll be very cross.

Oh, and while we are talking about Sherlock... What have Sherlock Holmes, the Ponds and Clara Oswin Oswald in common? (Well, Clara didn't want to, I guess that counts for something)

That was horrible but genius. Now thank you for breaking my heart and remembering 'The Reichenbach Fall'! (And he didn't want to either).

Clara... was entertaining. A bit sassy. I also was a bit upset at the kiss but... hmpf. I don't want to be prudent. He is married but it's not like he is wearing a ring or something. I really can't blame her but I'm always wary for Doctor/X ships. Even Doctor/River. But I guess romance is part of a story... But I'd lie if I said I wouldn't agree with Curly on the changing scene

Don't blush, Clara!Oswin has a very nice figure, and - okay, that is a bit sexist. If you're going to tease, fine, but if you can show a naked Matt Smith covered only by a semi-translucent shower curtain, you can do more than have a woman start to undo a button.
I mean, Victorian women do wear a lot of underclothing. If you're going to tease, tease properly.
Okay, I don't know what that says about me. Especially the part where I'm advocating more female undressing.
As for Doctorshipping, feel free to join me on the Good Ship Wary.

Okay, there have been made enough comparisons to Marry Poppins but there is something else that kind of crept up to me... Maybe it's just the christmas season and my overactive imagination or mere coinidence but there is another governess who can do another voice. But I assume it's just me or someone would have said something.

How did I not get that reference?! I know it's almost an impossibility, but I'd like to think all these sneaky little similarities between Discworld books and Doctor Who are deliberate shout outs rather than coincidence. It's just a little pretend.

Wait so Doctor Who is sexist because it marries off the female Companions. That would be interesting if our male ones (Mickey, Rory, Jack) hadn't also been put in serious relationships. Or was Jack not serious with Ianto, I never followed Torchwood. Wilfred and Brian aren't around long, but are entirely motivate by their role as a father. Craig Owens doesn't go Tardis hopping but is also married off yes. Then there's the FBI guy who couldn't get married and was all hurt about that.

I think the most important character thus far in NuWho without any romance/family role is Harriet Jones. You know who she is.

Relationships always have been, and likely always will be a big part of entertainment. There's really nothing more to it then that.

This.

There are fan edits available of both The Abominable Snowmen and Web of Fear, but they are very sketchy, with very poor quality stills used for the reconstruction. Both, however, are excellent serials and well worth hunting for. Tardismedia used to have them, I'm not sure if he's still going since he had a stalker who kept sabotaging his sites. Alternatively, try bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic

The yeti design changes, BTW, between the first and second serials. Those in Web of Fear are marginally less cute and cuddly looking, but do have some silly glowing eyes.

Couldn't hurt to check out, but I have a fairly weighty backlog as well. And really, poor Tardismedia has a stalker-type? Let me guess, endlessly spamming the report button?

I'm pretty sure you have done part 2 of Remembrance. As for the others...

Well, I just went back and searched the entire thread from my last 'Remembrance' post until pg. 30. No part 2.
But I think I figured out why I was so sure I'd done it. Not only is 'Remembrance' 1/4 in two parts because I can't seem to stop talking or getting distracted by things, but I do remember starting work on part 2 . . . just before my internet (and word file) crashed and prevented recovery of it. I might have another check on my computer to see if I can find the backup backup of the file, but I doubt it. Plus I don't think I got much further than a minute or two past the recap.

Hrm... neither are great classics. Day of... has quite a fun time paradox element to it, and the Doctor using a gun. Colony has some fun conniving by the Master and a young Helen Worth (Gail from Coronation Street), but on balance I think Day of the Daleks is the better story. You might be getting fed up with Daleks by then, though.... I don't recall Time Lords in Colony and, to be honest, pretty much any classic story involving the Time Lords tends to be disappointing, with the exception of The War Masters and The Deadly Assassin.

Well, let's add the time up:
I am currently on 'Genesis' 3/6. That serial is 2h 22min, and I rewatched/reread the episodes over again to refresh my memory.
'Remembrance' is 1h 37min.
'Day' is 1h 36min.
That'd be five and a half hours of back-to-back Dalek episodes. That is a lot of Dalek. However it would give me a chance to compare the approach to Daleks across . . . twenty-seven years. Wow. That really hammers home how old Doctor Who is when Doctors Three - Seven take up that much time. Back to my point, it'd be interesting to see how they're treated in different types of stories with different Doctors, Companions, writers, directors and producers.
But it is a lot of Dalek.

'Colony' is 2h 26min long, which is quite long, but I've never seen any of the Classic!Masters. However, I do value your opinion on story quality, so I'll pencil in 'Day', but if I suffer from Dalek fatigue I may switch over to something else.

[Sunken Valley]

Oh but you are you see. Allow me to demonstrate:

"Doctor Who is morally repugnant. It's "companions" are clearly are a paper thin disguise for disposable sluts that live in sin with a man they are neither related to nor married to. Doctor Who is symptomatic of moral degeneracy and an attack on family values everywhere. They don't even dress properly. And let's not get started on this Jack Harkness... no child should ever watch such an unwholesome program!"

The difference between my rant there and yours? I think I didn't include a fancy "-ism" to make trendy and portable for ones outrage.

Oh and some entirely subjective judgements on the slippery ideas of "right" and "wrong" and what is appropriate to be shown on television.

Both share that they are calls for censorship and an attempt to enforce a arbitrary sentiment on anyone that doesn't agree. Both also share that I don't approve of either.

If your really hurt that bad, go watch something else. You won't find sympathy for it from me though.

Now then... back to discussion

Your italic rant appears to contain several fallacies. Saying that they don't dress properly is "body-shaming". Saying they are affiliated with prostitution is "slut-shaming". Also, your rant does not give examples or justification. Mine does.

Lets look at it this way. What if Strax had been black. A normal black human. And when he said that line "sherlock holmes" the Doctor said "I'm the clever one your the black one" instead of "your the potato one" that would be racism. Then if he want on to say "You are not funny or clever and you are black" instead of "you have tiny little legs". Then there would be outrage from all. Unless of course you consider racism to be a "trendy and portable -ism". Unless of course you have no sympathy for those who wish to censor the support of racism.

Also,Ableism is a real thing not a "trend".

I just come here to say something I noticed and you attack me for it.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Not only is it annoying because some of these things that are glossed over demand more time to develop, but it gives me the impression that Nu Who writers want to write serials a la Classic Who but are restricted to one or two-parters by executives or other designs.
I mean, how often have people in this thread commented on how an episode could have been so much better as a two-parter or more?

The other end of that is that merely going with long serials wouldn't nessecarily be better. I've only sampled Genesis of the Daleks in full, and while pretty awesome there was a certain lagginess to the story. And a rather cheap cliffhanger with Sarah Jane climbing a scaffold. The sort of thing you only see much on reality tv these days: Shocking Event! Break. Less then shocking resolution.

Extended stories would still have static run time increments. Each episode is X length. While its always easy to say a story could benefit from more time, does it HAVE another hour-length program of run time in it?

Not that all of them don't, but I notice fans (of any franchise any media) always seem to call for things to be bigger and more complex... and the flip side is that then you can end up with slow dragging stories weighted down by filler and fluff. Which I don't think is considered all that often.

[The_Admiral]

Okay playground, I have a story I want to tell you.

I'm often the one whose cynical and does the negative reviews around here and maybe in a few other threads. But very rarely does something in an episode make me angry. Disappointed yes. Disgust yes. Sad yes. Frustrated yes. Hate yes. Upset yes. Actually LIVID WITH RAGE? No. But something happened to me today to make me ANGRY at one particular teeny-tiny aspect of the latest Christmas special, the Snowmen. It is not bad enough to demote my review score to 7 but it's pretty close.

I was walking back home from work today when I saw two children arguing, both boys. They were in the 7-10 range (couldn't tell) and one of them pushed the other and shouted "Shut up! You're stupid and have tiny little legs!". The pushed boy ran away crying. Why is this doubly bad? The pushed boy had some sort of physical disabillity meaning he had short, malformed legs.

Now when I went back home I checked my recording of the special. The actual line is "You are not clever or funny and have tiny little legs" but the important part is there, meaning that the phrase is very likely to have been taken from the episode. Now I'm not really one of those moral guardians who throw the banhammer at cartoon violence. I trust our ratings system to do that for us, because you can't really imitate cartoon violence. The only reason you would imitate any "action" seen on TV is if you were a combination of brave and stupid which just is not found very often. What can be imitated is dialogue and aesop. When the Doctor insults Strax on the grounds of his short legs, that is ableist behaviour. The Doctor is being ableist. Lots of children idolise the Doctor and look up to him and it is the responsibility of the BBC to have him behave in the manner of a positive role model (except when he doesn't and gets called out). This is not happening. What's worse is that this was a throw-away scene with the Doctor saying the line reflexively: as if it is normal for people to be insulted on the grounds of having short legs. The Doctor did not need to say that line. It could have been taken out or changed and no problem. Instead, it went through every corner of the BBC and went out to the public. IT SHOULD NEVER BE NORMAL TO INSULT PEOPLE ON THE GROUNDS OF SHORT LEGS!

In my review of the Snowmen I made a small mention of it, but with the exception of my review, I found that nobody else anywhere has spotted this. I tell you this hoping you can spot it. I for one will be writing to the BBC about this. I sincerely suggest that somebody else out there does so to.

I thought that the tiny little legs insult showed that the doctor was running out of insults for Strax and was grasping for straws as Strax calmly laughed at him with the Sherlock Holmes line.

[Sunken Valley]

Not that all of them don't, but I notice fans (of any franchise any media) always seem to call for things to be bigger and more complex... and the flip side is that then you can end up with slow dragging stories weighted down by filler and fluff. Which I don't think is considered all that often.

Except for the Lost fans


Edit:

I thought that the tiny little legs insult showed that the doctor was running out of insults for Strax and was grasping for straws as Strax calmly laughed at him with the Sherlock Holmes line.

The point is not that he was grasping for straws. It is that he said it in the first place. Often when people can't think of anything clever to say they resort to Racist, Sexist or Ableist slander. And it's not funny, it's just hurtful.

[pffh]

I thought that the tiny little legs insult showed that the doctor was running out of insults for Strax and was grasping for straws as Strax calmly laughed at him with the Sherlock Holmes line.

And it's not like Strax really has short legs. His legs are proportional to his body. Besides I just thought of it as two friends throwing a bit of insults at each others as friends do.

[Hullabaloo]

It is something. I saw the children. And I'm sure thats going to happen 20-30 more times across the globe.
The point is that the episode would not have been changed at all if they removed the line. If the Doctor had said "Shut up, You're not the clever one I'm the clever one so don't try." That would have been fine. Instead the Doctor went out of his way to insult Strax based on his physical disability, when Strax had not done anything similar.

right, would not have changed the show much. And the kids you saw you then have been unable to insult the kid? You are grasping at straws to assume the kids used that insult because they saw the show. You are grasping at air assuming the show had any effect on the kids additude towards others.

[dehro]

so.. ableism also applies to fictional aliens from outer space in a tv show now?
@sunken@ your comment is not much different from those comments that blame videogames or music for episodes of violence, shootings and bullying in schools.
Young children (and older ones) will ALWAYS find something to mock someone else about, even more readily with an actual disability offering them an easy target. more often than not, especially at that young age, it's out of being inconsiderate, rather than actually feeling mean. No, it's not cool and yes, parents should prevent that from happening or refrain from letting it slide when they see it happen. To blame a TV show for it is just plain stupid.
So, maybe the child was indeed inspired by the line in the show for his insult/jibe.. do you honestly think he wouldn't have said something else, maybe even more painful, if he hadn't seen the show or the line had not been in it? If that's the case, you're deluding yourself and indeed making mountains out of fictional molehills.
Almost anything that is vaguely derogatory can be used as an insult, taken out of context, and the impact of said insult depends totally on the specific circumstances. You simply cannot sanitize everything against such things happening.
If anything, I find this particular insult less harmful than many others that are thrown around much more casually.

[Jimorian]

Also, the point was to show that at the moment, the Doctor WAS being a jerk. So he says jerky things even though we know that's not what he's like as a person. It's the crack in his armor of "not caring". You're offended because you're SUPPOSED to be offended by it. However, you decided that instead of a moment of weakness in a good man, he said it because he's a bad man who barely manages to hide his disdain for those who are different and now he's showing his true colors.

[Kato]

IT SHOULD NEVER BE NORMAL TO INSULT PEOPLE ON THE GROUNDS OF SHORT LEGS!

So, what can you make fun of? Mental disabilities? Hair color? Ethnicity? Country of origin? Just being less intelligent than the insulting? [/sarcasm]
Also:

Young children (and older ones) will ALWAYS find something to mock someone else about, even more readily with an actual disability offering them an easy target. more often than not, especially at that young age, it's out of being inconsiderate, rather than actually feeling mean. No, it's not cool and yes, parents should prevent that from happening or refrain from letting it slide when they see it happen. To blame a TV show for it is just plain stupid.

It's sad, but the Doctor insulting an alien will most probably not further albeism. Also, as people said, it's an alien. It is not disabled. What you noticed is surely not a prime example of human behaviour but it's what people do. And many, many jokes are insulting in some way. And removing every line that might possibly offend someone from all media is... I'd tend to say ridiculous but it's not quite true. Anyway, it's not something the censor should have cut.

The Year of the Slow Invasion could have been an overarching theme for the first half of the season! Have Rory or Amy or someone be playing with a black cube, or using it as a paperweight in 'Aslyum of the Daleks' when the Doctor pops in to visit/take them on a trip [...]

That's a pretty good idea. That would have worked so much better...

Name of the documentary?

I think it was this one.

I thought so! Phoebe was always attracted to demons wasn't she? I remember a Balthazar in there late on.

Balthazar was Cole's demon name Sorry if I confused you with using the other one.

Well, you can understand why his last three books aren't up to Pratchett!standard, but I still think they're better than a lot of recent fantasy books. But I'm a die hard fan here - with the exception of Equal Rites, but I've not read that book in . . . six years, so it might be worth another go.
And oh, I remember that scene in Wintersmith, I feel the same. And then that scene with the poker and the Baron in the beginning, and the description of his death, and the end bit with the fire. He might not be amazing in every book, but when he gets it right, you never forget.

Oh, I'm well aware why. It's just... I think I notice. And it makes me wonder how much is still him and how much his assistant But that's no place to discuss it, sorry.
Hm... wasn't the Baron's death in "I shall wear Midnight"? Maybe I'm misremembering. Oh, wait, Who. Right.


Just in case, spoilers for anything relating to Snowmen again.

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Which is why I'm hoping when they come back there's more time to focus on them as supporting characters, but I still stand by my belief that the One Word Answer scene is one of the most compelling and powerful scenes in the entire special and displayed Mme. Vastra's intelligence and emotions very well.

While, yes, the One word scene was strong, I felt it did much more for Clara. She was the one who was much more challenged and had to come up with the answers. I'm not saying Vastra didn't do her part well but Clara was the focus, or so it seemed to me.

That was horrible but genius. Now thank you for breaking my heart and remembering 'The Reichenbach Fall'! (And he didn't want to either).

Sorry, I was aware it would be hurtful but... I felt I had to point Moffat's hobby out once more. Not that we don't know it but... sorry.
(Well, nobody does it for fun. He jumped on his own, she was literally dragged off the cloud)

Don't blush, Clara!Oswin has a very nice figure, and - okay, that is a bit sexist. If you're going to tease, fine, but if you can show a naked Matt Smith covered only by a semi-translucent shower curtain, you can do more than have a woman start to undo a button.

Well, she surely does...
Yeah, or if Benedict Cumberbatch can walk around with a sheet around his lower body and nothing else. But Sherlock is not for kids, I guess. Still, the difference between showing a man nude and a woman in our society is quite prominent.

As for Doctorshipping, feel free to join me on the Good Ship Wary.

I shall be your loyal mate. Sailor. Cook. Okay, better not cook, if you want to live.

Regarding new reviews... While I enjoy the Classic Who, can't you catch up with season 4? Or do you still lack the DVDs? Just so we don't have to worry about Donna-era spoilers. (Okay, I guess it's still quite a bit to go)

[CurlyKitGirl]

Regarding new reviews... While I enjoy the Classic Who, can't you catch up with season 4? Or do you still lack the DVDs? Just so we don't have to worry about Donna-era spoilers. (Okay, I guess it's still quite a bit to go)

Have to be quick, I'm apparently going out drinking with some elder cousins? Socialising. What a strange conundrum.
I only have DVD sets for twelve Classic Who serials. The Beginning box set, The Sontaran Experiment boxset, 'Genesis', 'Remembrance', 'The Invasion, 'Day of the Daleks' and 'Colony in Space'. Everything else is found online.
So when it comes to Nu Who and Who in general it's a case of finding a good enough quality version of the episode/serial in English and a few other things. They're annoyingly hard to find at times.
I really do want to finish season four though.
Then I can start season five.

Why am I going out drinking?

[Asheram]

A few days late on the whole thing but my two cents about
The Snowmen

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1. I kind of like the new "Desktop" the TARDIS has in this episode. The Doctor has gone Scrooge on us and is remembering the old times?

2. No smooching The Doctor, you harlot! He's a married man!

3. I do wonder if Oswin is going to be the new Rory: The Doctor finding her in each new episode only to watch her die.

[dps]

Except for the Lost fans

The point is not that he was grasping for straws. It is that he said it in the first place. Often when people can't think of anything clever to say they resort to Racist, Sexist or Ableist slander. And it's not funny, it's just hurtful.

The Doctor's line wasn't funny, no, but the point of the exchange was that Strax had gotten the best of him at a bit of verbal sparring and The Doctor didn't have a good comeback line. The exchange as a whole was hilarious.

[Vaynor]

The Red Towel: Hey guys, let's cool it down a bit, ok? Discussion about the show is cool, but let's try to be nicer to each other.

[Kato]

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1. I kind of like the new "Desktop" the TARDIS has in this episode. The Doctor has gone Scrooge on us and is remembering the old times?

2. No smooching The Doctor, you harlot! He's a married man!

3. I do wonder if Oswin is going to be the new Rory: The Doctor finding her in each new episode only to watch her die.

1) Possible but it's not like the Doctor has travelled alone before. But some were a bit grumpier, I'll admit.

2) As much as it bothered me... you can't blame her. He never talks of it, wears no ring, nothing.

3) I was thinking the same thing. Alons the lines of "Hey, we killed Rory again and again and the fans loved him! Let's kill her again and again and the fans will love her. Hahaha!"

[turkishproverb]

A few days late on the whole thing but my two cents about
The Snowmen

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1. I kind of like the new "Desktop" the TARDIS has in this episode. The Doctor has gone Scrooge on us and is remembering the old times?

2. No smooching The Doctor, you harlot! He's a married man!

3. I do wonder if Oswin is going to be the new Rory: The Doctor finding her in each new episode only to watch her die.

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2. Oh please. That universe doesn't' even exist anymore. It's gotta count as annulled

[Thufir]

Why am I going out drinking?

Because a social life is a good thing to have, and a thing you want to have?

[Asheram]

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2. Oh please. That universe doesn't' even exist anymore. It's gotta count as annulled

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Sorry, I'm more of a "if two people remembers it, it has happened" person

[Sunken Valley]

Hello Playground,

I'd like to introduce you to a reviewer i like. His name is MrTARDISreviews and he is a big fan of Dr Who. He does reviews of Dr Who Episodes (and recent films) on youtube and on geekvision. Being a professional film critic is his paying job and his reviews are often well thought out. He is also writing and directing an indie film due to be released in 2013.

This is the first part of his review of the recent Christmas Special.And this is part 2. He gives it 3/10 and although I disagree with the low score he makes some good well thought out points.

For the record, he's not a moffat hater, he doesn't complain about sexism or ableism and his reviews aren't jealous hate.

If anyone wants a full list of his scores for Dr Who episodes (he's done seasons 5, 6, 7 and most of 1), I will put it up here so you can dissect him.

In other news, I'm considering doing a few full length Curly-style reviews of past episodes. Does anyone want this from me?

[Weezer]

In other news, I'm considering doing a few full length Curly-style reviews of past episodes. Does anyone want this from me?

I'd be interested in reading them, while I tend to disagree with your opinions on the show I do enjoy reading you generally well thought out dissenting opinions.

[Kato]

So, because I apparently am not the peace-loving individual I think I am and rather argue about personal opinion I went and watched the review. Sometimes I could kick my own behind.

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While it certainly raises some good points, like I already said I didn't like the ending because "love saves the world (again)" and the father being pretty useless. (Then again, if there was something the episode didn't need it was more subplot. If the episode was longer, okay, but really they couldn't just have NO father and ascending another side character... Yeah, he could have been handleded better but it's not a big issue with me.)

But let's take a step back. The very first complaint was regarding the villain. He has no motivation to be a jerky kid. So... did Scrooge have a motivation to be a selfish, greedy bastard? No, because apparently people are allowed to be greedy because they are rich bastards but llittle kids are not allowed to be jerks and when having a parasite in their head are not allowed to become self-centered 50 year old jerks. Admittedly, he could have been developed better but the story focuses much more on introducing Clara and establishing two new characters in 40 minutes and do other stuff would make the episode feel rushed. Yes, it was a waste of Grant, quite probably, but one has to consider the circumstances. He's just a mean guy who wants to rule the world. (And as for the bad acting at the end, I took it it was the parasite for the first time trying to control a human body(?)) If Grant would have been just redeemed at the end it would just be another Scrooge. I can live with the way it ended.
And I don't get it when people complain about characters that are supposed to be stoic when the actors... ACT STOIC! What a shock! This happens so often. Or when someone is supposed to be energetic, they act overly energetic. It might not be how the average person acts but not everyone is average.
And while I admit, no, the Snowmen weren't scary... they didn't need to. Not every Moffat monster needs to be so terribly frightening. They were a threat since they murdered a bunch of people. Daleks are a threat because death rays.

What else? Oh, the key. You know, I didn't bother. I didn't even care much he gave her the key. I have no idea when each and every companion got their key. If you care for it, yeah, it is pretty weird he'd give it to her so soon, but to make us care more for her? I can only say I didn't care whether she got the key, no key, his bowtie or whatever. I don't feel more or less about a character because the Doctor does... (If so, I wouldn't feel towards Rose as I do) So I can't really say if that was Moffat's intention or what he was thinking. I cared for her because she was interesting and I'd have cared for any other interesting character, like Vastra or Strax (Well, I didn't care that much for her yet.)

How the One-Word-scene was ruined at the end... Well, for once, it's rather obvious Vastra tried to keep her lengthy answer short, after Carla caught her out on lying. But you can't explain the Doctor too short to someone who has no idea about him. Then the complaint would have been probably it makes no sense for Clara to be able to follow it or something like that.
As for the Pond answer... I'm willing to accept it because I believe in some wibbly-wobbly connection to Asylum-Oswin. Otherwise it makes no sense, no, but that's foreshadowing.


And the big complaint made of many small complaints containing the above. And other little things that don't make sense. I won't go through all of them but the first two he mentioned in detail: I'll admit the escape from the room was weird but do we know the outlay of the room? Was there a second exits? Was the governess between them and the door? And concerning Clara "escaping" from the carriage": Well, big DEAL! She was guarded by "duh, forgot the gauntlets"-Strax. Maybe that's why he had this stupid introduction to make that moment believable. Getting out of a carriage is not a big thing. There are doors you can open silently. Or you can climb through the roof, like how she got in. It's not quantum science and not everything has to be shown.


If I'd have to come up with one thing I'll admit to - apart from the cheesy ending - it's how the episode served much more as a new introduction for Clara than as an episode on its own. And insofar the threat and villain was a bit underwhelming.
I still had fun with the episode and... really, that's what I want from the show (or anything else) I'm sorry if he couldn't enjoy it but... well, tough luck?

[CurlyKitGirl]

In other news, I'm considering doing a few full length Curly-style reviews of past episodes. Does anyone want this from me?

Do it. There are six hundred and ninety odd episode of Classic Who, split into one hundred and fifty odd serials. And Nu Who is ninety or so episodes.
That's a lot. Dr. Simon's already done a brief synopsis-style review of each serial as a whole from start to finish, but I think they only people doing actual review style reviews of Classic/Nu Who on even a semi-irregular basis are you, myself and Friv unless I'm greatly mistaken.
As for what to review, I think Friv's mainly done Third Doctor episodes, and I'm all over the shop, so it just depends. If you want to go into Classic Who I don't think anyone's reviewed a Fifth Doctor episode in-depth, so that could be a good starting point? If you want to do Nu Who couldn't hurt to start from the beginning?
Just do whatever you want to review.

[LokeyITP]

Saw it, liked it, queue credits.

Production and acting-wise, things continue great. New tardis is nice, reveal was done really well. (There's 1080p of that on youtube on the various region specific BBC accounts, and it's worth seeing as there's piles of detail everywhere.)

Had a few script problems, but don't want to look at it too critically because Christmas Special (they tend to be canon lighter and always have to shoehorn in the power of lub). It certainly flowed well, pacing is great (anyone look at the clock while watching)? The general Moffat touch (TM) is to take a sequence of unrelated and mad/silly things and have them flow naturally, and I think this is where he's been weak lately (sometimes in what his touchstones are but mostly the flow between them).

Someone clean up this explanation: there's always a piece of information missing in the episode and you feel that knowing that will make everything clear but it only creates a bigger mystery (this happens a few times). It's closer to being usual Moffat than his last 4 or 5 scripts have been at least :)

Alright, writing was most lazy with Strax, he went to that well way too often...I wonder if we can get a Strax Life series :)

[Soras Teva Gee]

Alright, writing was most lazy with Strax, he went to that well way too often...I wonder if we can get a Strax Life series :)

Well he's only back seemingly by fan demand... which kind of makes me want to leave it there.

Though I think the show could benefit from having a non-human Companion.

[comicshorse]

I'd be interested in reading them, while I tend to disagree with your opinions on the show I do enjoy reading you generally well thought out dissenting opinions.

I'd second that

[Friv]

In other news, I'm considering doing a few full length Curly-style reviews of past episodes. Does anyone want this from me?

Do it. There are six hundred and ninety odd episode of Classic Who, split into one hundred and fifty odd serials. And Nu Who is ninety or so episodes.
That's a lot. Dr. Simon's already done a brief synopsis-style review of each serial as a whole from start to finish, but I think they only people doing actual review style reviews of Classic/Nu Who on even a semi-irregular basis are you, myself and Friv unless I'm greatly mistaken.
As for what to review, I think Friv's mainly done Third Doctor episodes, and I'm all over the shop, so it just depends. If you want to go into Classic Who I don't think anyone's reviewed a Fifth Doctor episode in-depth, so that could be a good starting point? If you want to do Nu Who couldn't hurt to start from the beginning?
Just do whatever you want to review.

Yeah, I was reviewing early Pertwee stuff, but honestly no one seemed that enthusiastic about my reviews so I stopped after finishing Spearhead from Space. So if you want to go ahead and review anything in the Pertwee era, you're not likely to interrupt me. ;)

[CurlyKitGirl]

Yeah, I was reviewing early Pertwee stuff, but honestly no one seemed that enthusiastic about my reviews so I stopped after finishing Spearhead from Space. So if you want to go ahead and review anything in the Pertwee era, you're not likely to interrupt me. ;)

I liked what I read of them, but a couple of my major absences coincided with your reviews.
Then I came back and I couldn't find where the 'Spearhead in Space' review was, and then the search thread function was gone and I couldn't find them.
Don;t know if I checked the first page to see if there were links to your reviews there, but I probably should have. Are they there?