Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

[Androgeus]

I liked what I read of them, but a couple of my major absences coincided with your reviews.
Then I came back and I couldn't find where the 'Spearhead in Space' review was, and then the search thread function was gone and I couldn't find them.
Don;t know if I checked the first page to see if there were links to your reviews there, but I probably should have. Are they there?

I don't think I collected them, but I did find them with my google-fu

edit: And they are now in the archive, along with all of Sunken's and Curly's

[Reverent-One]

Been watching BBC America's New Year marathon - always a good choice - and noticed something amusing in "The Next Doctor" (Curlers, I believe):

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Fake!Doctor is played by the same guy who plays the Governor in The Walking Dead. Gee, how many times can one guy play someone known primarily just by a title like that.

[Friv]

I liked what I read of them, but a couple of my major absences coincided with your reviews.
Then I came back and I couldn't find where the 'Spearhead in Space' review was, and then the search thread function was gone and I couldn't find them.
Don;t know if I checked the first page to see if there were links to your reviews there, but I probably should have. Are they there?

Thank you! They were coming out alongside actual episodes, which was probably not a great plan in retrospect. I could possibly be persuaded to hop ahead to the Master arc and start reviewing those.

Because jeez, if anyone wanted to ruin my belief that the Master was a good villain, his first four appearances would be a solid start.

Or actually, I will do what is more standard and put it to a vote! Would people rather see me move ahead chronologically with The Silurians, which should be worth a laugh, or skip ahead to the Master's first appearance next season?

I don't think I collected them, but I did find them with my google-fu

edit: And they are now in the archive, along with all of Sunken's and Curly's

And thank you as well. :)

There was also a fourth part completed over here.

[Dr. Simon]

And really, poor Tardismedia has a stalker-type? Let me guess, endlessly spamming the report button?

Basically, yes. I don't know why someone would want to do that, but I also can't figure why somebody would want to completely demolish ENWorld either. Haters gotta hate, hackers gotta hack.

Well, I just went back and searched the entire thread from my last 'Remembrance' post until pg. 30. No part 2.
But I think I figured out why I was so sure I'd done it. Not only is 'Remembrance' 1/4 in two parts because I can't seem to stop talking or getting distracted by things, but I do remember starting work on part 2 . . . just before my internet (and word file) crashed and prevented recovery of it. I might have another check on my computer to see if I can find the backup backup of the file, but I doubt it. Plus I don't think I got much further than a minute or two past the recap.

That is probably where I'm getting confused, as I was sure I remembered (ha, irony) two posts about Remembrance. But I think you're right.

'Colony' is 2h 26min long, which is quite long, but I've never seen any of the Classic!Masters. However, I do value your opinion on story quality, so I'll pencil in 'Day', but if I suffer from Dalek fatigue I may switch over to something else.

As I could only recall fragments of Colony I went back to the BBC recap to refresh my mind. You're right, there are Time Lords - a lot of the early Pertwee stories involve the Celestial Intervention Agency who keep using the Doctor for dirty work with the promise of ending his exile to Earth. The rest of the story is quite reasonable, but like a lot of Pertwee six-parters tend to be a bit padded with escapes and recaptures etc. but there are some amusingly rubbish effects.

And... I'm confused as to how my dog ended up in your new avatar. Although she's not as noisy as depicted.

Friv - I enjoyed your reviews, it's always good to see some more classic Who in the thread. Please continue. I found the best way is just to plough on anyway even if you're not sure anyone is listening. I think I'd got to Tom Baker before anyone even so much as mentioned my lists!

[CurlyKitGirl]

Koorly's Doctor Who Review Archive:
Classic Who

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Second Doctor

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Series 6
1.
2.
3. 'The Invasion' 1/8, 2/8, 3/8 part one, part two, 4/8 part one, part two, 5/8, 6/8, 7/8, 8/8

4.
5.
6.
7.
Fourth Doctor

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Series 12
1.
2.
3.
4. 'Genesis of the Daleks' 1/6, 2/6, 3/6, 4/6, 5/6, 6/6
5.

Seventh Doctor

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Series 25
1. 'Remembrance of the Daleks' 1/4 part 1, part 2, 2/4, 3/4, 4/4
2.
3.
4.

Nu Who

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Season 1 - retrospective

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Brief Whole Series Retrospective
Ep. 1 'Rose'
Ep. 2 'The End of the World'
Ep. 3 'The Unquiet Dead'
Ep. 4: 'Aliens of London' (1/2)
Ep. 5: 'World War III' (2/2)
Ep. 6: 'Dalek'
Ep. 7: 'The Long Game'
Ep. 8: 'Father's Day'
Ep. 9: 'The Empty Child' (1/2)
Ep. 10: 'The Doctor Dances' (2/2)
Ep. 11: 'Boom Town'
Ep. 12: 'Bad Wolf' (1/2)
Ep. 13: 'The Parting of the Ways' (2/2)

Christmas Episode: 'The Christmas Invasion'

Season 2 - retrospective

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Brief Whole Series Retrospective
Ep. 1: 'New Earth'
Ep. 2: 'Tooth and Claw'
Ep. 3: 'School Reunion'
Ep. 4: 'The Girl in the Fireplace'
Ep. 5: 'Rise of the Cybermen' (1/2)
Ep. 6: 'The Age of Steel' (2/2)
Ep. 7: 'The Idiot's Lantern'
Ep. 8: 'The Impossible Planet' (1/2)
Ep. 9: 'The Satan Planet' (2/2)
Ep. 10: 'Love and Monsters'
Ep. 11: 'Fear Her'
Ep. 12: 'Army of Ghosts' (1/2)
Ep. 13: 'Doomsday' (2/2) GOODBYE ROSE!
Charity Special: 'Doctor Who: Children in Need'
Christmas Episode: 'The Runaway Bride'

Season 3 - blind bar Moffat

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Ep. 1: 'Smith and Jones'
Ep. 2: 'The Shakespeare Code'
Ep. 3: 'Gridlock'
Ep. 4: 'Daleks in Manhattan' (1/2)
Ep. 5: 'Evolution of the Daleks' (2/2)
Ep. 6: 'The Lazarus Experiment'
Ep. 7: '42'
Ep. 8: 'Human Nature' (1/2)
Ep. 9: 'The Family of Blood' (2/2)
Ep. 10: 'Blink'
Ep. 11: 'Utopia' (1/3)
Ep. 12: 'The Sound of the Drums' (2/3)
Ep. 13: 'The Last of the Time Lords' (3/3)
Children in Need 2007 episode: 'Time Crash'
2007 Christmas Episode: 'Voyage of the Damned'

Bits and Bobs
Retrospective - to be written later
Why I Do Not Like Martha/Ten (This was written between my write ups of ep. 8 and ep 9)

Season Four blind bar Moffat

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Ep. 1: 'Partners in Crime'
Ep. 2: 'The Fires of Pompeii'
Ep. 3: 'Planet of the Ood'
Ep. 4: 'The Sontaran Stratagem' (1/2)
Ep. 5: ‘The Poison Sky‘ (2/2)
Ep. 6: ‘The Doctor‘s Daughter‘ Two part review.
Ep. 7: 'The Unicorn and the Wasp'
Ep. 8: 'Silence in the Library' (1/2)
Ep. 9: 'Forest of the Dead' (2/2)
Ep. 10: 'Midnight'
Ep. 11: 'Turn Left' (1/3)
Ep. 12: 'The Stolen Earth' (2/3)
Ep. 13: 'Journey's End' (3/3)

The Specials]
1: 'The Next Doctor'
2: 'Planet of the Dead'
3: 'The Waters of Mars'
4: 'The End of Time' (1/2)
5: 'The End of Time' (2/2)

Season 5 - blind bar Moffat's Angels

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Ep. 1: 'The Eleventh Hour' (including 'Meanwhile in the TARDIS 1')
Ep. 2: 'The Beast Below'
Ep. 3: 'Victory of the Daleks'
Ep. 4: 'The Time of the Angels' (1/2)
Ep. 5: 'Flesh and Stone' (2/2) (including 'Meanwhile in the TARDIS 2')
Ep. 6: 'The Vampires of Venice'
Ep. 7: 'Amy's Choice'
Ep. 8: 'The Hungry Earth' (1/2)
Ep. 9: 'Cold Blood' (2/2)
Ep. 10: 'Vincent and the Doctor'
Ep. 11: 'The Lodger' (bar the angels this was the first episode I saw)
Ep. 12: 'The Pandorica Opens' (1/2)
Ep. 13: 'The Big Bang' (2/2)
Christmas Episode: 'A Christmas Carol'

Season 6

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To to things this series was split in two, as such eps. 8 - Christmas episode will be liveblogged, and the first seven will be written with me having seen them before.
Ep. 1: 'The Impossible Astronaut' (1/2)
Ep. 2: 'Day of the Moon' (2/2)
Ep. 3: 'The Curse of the Black Spot'
Ep. 4: 'The Doctor's Wife' HELL YEAH!
Ep. 5: 'The Rebel Flesh' (1/2)
Ep. 6: 'The Almost People' (2/2)
Ep. 7: 'A Good Man Goes to War'
Ep. 8: 'Let's Kill Hitler'
Ep. 9: 'Night Terrors'
Ep. 10: 'The Girl Who Waited'
Ep. 11: 'The God Complex'
Ep. 12: 'Closing Time'
Ep. 13: 'The Wedding of River Song'

Red Nose Day Specials: 'Space'/'Time'
2011 Christmas Special: 'The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe'

Season 7

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Liveblogged unless otherwise mentioned.

Ep. 1: 'Asylum of the Daleks'
Ep. 2: 'Dinosaurs On A Spaceship'
Ep. 3: 'A Town Called Mercy'
Ep. 4: 'The Power of Three'
Ep. 5: 'The Muppets Take Manhattan'
'P.S.'
'The Great Detective' CiN minisode
'Vastra Investigates' minisode
2012 Christmas episode: 'The Snowman'

Odds and Sods

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Things that don't really fit anywhere.

'Good As Gold' Second Blue Peter scriptwriting competition for Doctor Who

And now, to boldly go where many have gone before. [*cue TOS theme (Such a awesome introduction)*]

'Genesis of the Daleks' part 3/6 (season 12, serial 4)

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Last time: Sarah Jane Smith had very lovely boots, but then she fell to her death off a scaffold by the Allies under another name. The Doctor and Harry are captured by the space-Nazis and Davros, and there is interrogating going on. And everything was made of grey areas and the blackness of Davros' soul. Plus fangirling and cheapness.

On with the show (warning: website is in French (but rather basic), and the episode itself is in English avec des sous-titres en francais):

I still think Four's theme is the best. While that's going on, I'd like to say that when I said Michael Winner was Davros I meant Michael Wisher (I got my Michael's crossed). Terry Nation is still the writer and Robert Holmes is still the script editor, so let's talk about two other key members of the behind-the-scenes crew: director David Maloney and producer/showrunner Philip Hinchliffe.

Maloney was a Doctor Who veteran by 'Genesis', having assisted production in 'The Rescue', before directing 'The Mind Robber', 'The Krotons', 'The War Games' and 'Planet of the Daleks'. After 'Genesis' he went on to direct 'Planet of Evil', 'The Deadly Assassin' and 'The Talons of Weng-Chiang'.

Of the episodes he directed I have heard of all of them but one: 'The Krotons', and several of them (namely 'Talons', 'Genesis' and 'Assassin' are amongst the best Doctor Who episodes ever. Post-Who he also produced the first three seasons of Blake's 7 (another critically acclaimed and popular british sci-fi show) as well as writing a few episodes.

Hinchcliffe began producing Doctor Who solo with 'The Ark in Space' and finished with 'Talons'; however, it must be noted that all the serials in Tom Baker's first season were commissioned by the previous production team. But during his reign as producer Doctor Who had the highest average viewership in all of Classic Who's history. Sadly, he left because of complaints due to the violent and darker turn the show had taken. No doubt Mary Whitehouse was involved in this too.

So: Terry Nation is writing, Robert Holmes was editing, David Maloney directing, and Philip Hinchliffe was producing. And Tom Baker and Sarah Jane Smith were the starring protagonists, with the Daleks making another return as the show's most enduring antagonists. Any wonder this serial is considered a classic? Just look at their resumees!

I would also like to mention that it is rather fun to look up writers/script editors/directors/producers/actors involved in Doctor Who (especially the behind-the-scenes crew) as the first sentence usually starts: '[name] [dates] is/was a [profession(s)] best known for working on the British science-fiction television series Doctor Who . . . 'This, of course, excludes the really famous actors and writers such as Neil Gaiman, Michael Gambon, Sir Ian McKellen and Derek Jacobi.

And BRIAN BLESSED. By virtue of his being BRIAN BLESSED, his first sentence talks about him being VERY LOUD.

And now, we continue; I like the rendering of the TARDIS in this opening sequence, as well as the Classic logo. So we recap the last few minutes of episode two; you know, where mutants were shot by dudes, and a girl in heeled boots and a velvet skirt outclimbed a prissy trained Nazi officer.

Until he stopped to help her and got headshotted for his chivalry, causing Sarah Jane Smith to freeze in horror. Then she feel very far indeed. Fortunately she's not dead yet, nor even pining for the fjords, merely stunned. Guess hitting the metal bars really would knock you unconscious for a bit. Even more fortunately, she wakes up just as one of the orange-shaded riflemen tries to shoot. More climbing, more shooting, and we're at the top of the scaffolding next to the warhead.

They're going to jump across an itty-bitty gap onto the rocket. Note: this gap is literally small enough to step over. However, they're caught before they can climb to the top and . . . out the roof.

Problem is: Sarah Jane Smith is frozen to the spot and Random Rifleman pushes her off. "If I should just slacken my grip . . . they say people who fall from great heights are dead before they hit the ground. I don't believe that, do you?" He hauls her up "You're going back to work. In a day or so, you're going to wish I had let you drop. Right, get over." I hope for irony’s sake she pushes him off. Now. That was a very gittish thing to do, pettily malevolent in fact. Alas, she does not.

Cut to Our Boys in a set - tunnel - made of shiny rocks, they were lost, but there’s light, so logically that must mean they’re free. Or about to wonder back into the Kaled-Nazi’s base. What they see in the conspicuous spotlight is . . . s set of rusty iron bars blocking a passageway.

And then there’s this: a mutated giant clam. On land. When, on earth, giant clams are traditionally found in the Indian and South Pacific oceans. However, I must stress that it’s only mutated because it’s on land. Some of the largest giant clams ever discovered have been over a meter long and weighed over three hundred pounds. They also appear to live exclusively in/on flat coral sand/broken coral. Also: clams burrow into sand. I would also like to add I spent over twenty minutes looking for this particular species of clam, and clams in general. Thy are surprisingly interesting.

Oh, and, of course, Harry steps into it. My one overwhelming question is: how didn’t he see this enormous and conspicuously out-of-place bivalve mollusc right in front of him?! And why is the clam growling? Why would you make a clam growl? Why is this treated with all the seriousness of being attacked by a real threat? It’s even got dramatic music for the ‘fight’ scene!

By the by, is there a proper word for ‘Eating Someone‘? Only my tags look a little clumsy. It’s not cannibalism, because it’s a clam, and my brain seems to have failed me. And yes, I do realise I may end up needing to add a cannibalism tag to my screenshots.

H: “Pull it out Doctor!” That's what s/he said.

The Doctor tries to kill the clam by smashing it with a rock, but it fails so he goes for a biggger rock! This time to use as a lever. The Doctor must be pretty strong to rip a stalactite off the ceiling; I mean, even limestone and other really soft rocks would be pretty tough if they were half a foot thick.

Why would Davros experiment to make mutant giant clams? What’s that Latin phrase Harry spouts? Magnon de lores? Magna poluris? Polaris? Well, it’s ‘great something’ at any rate. I do get a bit of a giggle from the Doctor telling Harry now is not the time or place for Latin. But really, you're a genius biological/genetic engineer and a major force for political power in Kaled society with significant contributions to the military campaigns of the past several decades, you've single-handedly created the Daleks/ultimate evolutionary form of the Kaled/Thal species . . . and in your spare time you make land-walking giant clams. Clams! Why is this more ridiculous than murderous statuary, killer shop mannequins, Christmas trees and Father Christmases, and cute animated adipose babies. Which, need I remind you, are sentient lumps of human fat. But it is less ridiculous than the resolution to 'Fear Her' and much less ridiculous than 'Love and Monsters'.

Killer clam.

And Doctor Harry Sullivan - a doctor - didn't see it. It's a third his height! Surely being a doctor implies intelligence and the ability to observe things? Giant. Clam. On land. That's the kind of thing I'd notice, and my attention span is rather small.

Also, while clams can move when they're still in their baby form, they swim. And can't be found on land. Because there's no salt water.

As an aside, this set is quite nice, but in a weird bit of sci-fi cross-translation, I'd swear blind this set belonged in ST: TOS' 'The Devil in the Dark', but with a bit more sand. And clams. Admittedly a giant clam is a little less ridiculous than a Horta, which looks rather like a mutant lasagne rug, but it's still an ambulatory mutant giant clam. And it's treated so seriously, even though it sounds like a gurgling drain overdubbed with a growling kitten.

Fortunately the Doctor determines that the doctor's foot isn't broken, although I'd think a doctor'd be able to tell if he had a broken bone. Maybe he'd have to take his shoe off first (which the Doctor doesn't do), but it's not like a broken foot/leg bone would be that hard to diagnose.

H: "Why is it always me that puts a foot in it eh?" Heh, that's pretty funny. And you do it because you're neither Sarah Jane Smith nor the Doctor. I feel I should inform you at this point that, it being New Year's Eve/Day I have been drinking moderately steadily since six in the evening, and the rum and the vodka are now all gone. It's not that I've been doing a drinking game like I did last year (or the year before?) with Maltak, but that I have been watching Star Trek episodes and - oh wait, that was a drinking game of sorts. Ne'eryoumindthen. Never watch ST: VOY and take a drink when a reset button is pushed for anything. And I was only watching it to prove a point to a sibling, not because I actually like that show. Well, I do, I love Star Trek, but not that particular version of the show, you know. Like how people like certain Doctors/people, but not others? Like that. But good God, why did Sibling have to pick 'Threshold' (amongst others) to watch, I was drinking out of despair because even I could tell the made of science was one hundred percent wrong even by Star Trek standards! I mean, my science qualifications amount to a double A* at GCSE, so I am really not an expert, but even I can tell you that humans would not evolve into newt-thingies! And do you know how I know that?! Because we evolved from them! Sort of. Well, on a parallel path or something. But humans have a vestigial tail, meaning that it was evolutionarily beneficial for us to lose it, so we wouldn't grow it back! Humans can't de-evolve and then call it evolving!!! It's like that episode of TNG where the Enterprise crew started de-evolving and turning into apes and lizards and whatnot you know, but the writers of TNG knew that lizards-thingies were a step down the evolutionary ladder from homo sapiens (but admittedly on the wrong side of things? But Troi was a lizard thingy so it's possible because she was part-Betazoid (although as a hybrid I don't know[/I] what [I]was going on there) so that could have been entirely possible for a Betazoid. Did they evolve from lizards? To Memory Alpha! No idea! Although I did spent a good six minutes reading various articles on Betazed and Betazoids. Betazoid's a silly name for a species anyway because I keep thinking it's a Power Rangers zoid. Although it would be funny if the Huttese were related to Betazoids if it turned out they (the Betazoids) were descended from lizards. Although I doubt that would be true at Betazed is still in the Alpha Quadrant.

And that episode of TNG was still stupider than this serial even though it was done a little under twenty years later than 'Genesis of the Daleks'! And do you know why I make that decision? Because at least here they said they deliberately mutated Kaleds to reach the so-called 'ultimate evolutionary point' of their species meaning that the little blobs are mutants! Yes. Doctor Who science from 1976 is infinitely better than Star Trek science of the 1990s! And STAR TREK HAD SCIENCE CONSULTANTS!! Actual, paid, part-of-the-staff science consultants. Something that Doctor Who doesn't appear to have ever had!

Oh God what have I done.

So Our Boys try to break open the 'iron bars' mentioned earlier. They will, of course, break the bars because they look like the frozen form of Scottish fizzy pop. This is accompanied with a disconcertingly close close up of the Doctor's chest and Harry's extremely grubby hands. Eww.

DJANG! Smash cut to Davros, Himmler and Daleks. He's still creepy. An evil, genocidal Stephen Hawking. He wants to tweak the Daleks even more to make "[t]heir instincts . . . as accurate as a scientific instrument" which is patently absurd because even Cybermen's instincts aren't that accurate. And neither are Data's even though he's a ridiculously human android. I'm beginning to wonder if the white scientist's outfits are symbolic of something. You know, given that the Nazis - I mean Kaleds wear black or grey, and the scientists can technically be considered neutral in this matter. Very technically. Given they want to help their people, and one of them also permitted Our Boys to escape.

Tall Dark and Sneaky (to old, white-haired guy): "Don't worry, I won't betray you. You're not the only one concerned about the morality of the work we are doing here." [how much do you want to bet this is a ploy of some sort?] "Now answer me: does Davros know they're gone?" Hmm, I think OW-HG might be Alastair Darling. TDS spouts some nonsense about our Boys having reached the city and contacting the dudes Darling told them to contact.

Darling: "How do you know?"

TDS: "There is some advantage of being in charge of the communication system. All that we can hope for now is that they convince the leaders that Davros' work here must be ended." [Did that happen? I can't remember.]

Okay, maybe TDS isn't a traitor. However. They are discussing this treachery in front of Himmler. Stupid heads.

Then we're outside the Eden Project, doubling as the Thal city, and someone's been playing with the smoke machine again. Tsk tsk. Ah, my mistake, it's the Kaled city. They're in a Secret Bunker of Secretiveness to keep this meeting secret! And for good reason as the Doctor intends to tell the House of Congress of the Kaleds the future! And you have to love this line: D: "[M]y knowledge is scientific fact." Mmmhmm. Dwell on that line for a moment. Let it sink in. Somehow, I think between Four and Eleven that factual basis has deteriorated somewhat. I mean, remember that scene from 'Christmas Carol' where Eleven short circuits the psychic paper by claiming to be a responsible adult? Now, I would trust Four to be a responsible adult. However, I also believe Four would keep a Christmas List. I think perhaps, that later Doctors, or at least Nu ones are perhaps a bit ditzier than Classic ones? Or maybe just less serious overall?

Oh God.

I may possibly have either overdosed on sugar or have finally become tipsy, but . . . Tom Baker in this shot looks like Cumberbatch!Sherlock? A lot? As in, aside from colouration and nose length. Suddenly all those 'The Doctor is Sherlock and Mycroft's parent' fics are a lot more plausible. It's not just looks and voice either. Not only is this line very Doctor, but it's extremely Sherlock, and they both say such things with utter certainty. The cinematography here, while rather simple, still seems shot in a similar, slower style to Sherlock (I think it's to do with the angles and lighting more than anything), and both Four!Doctor and Sherlock!Sherlock have very animated eye and facial movement. Their presence is also rather commanding when necessary, as it is in this scene, and is emphasised by the slow zooms onto their faces to show how their actions and words are dominating the scene. The scene start at 08:20 if you don't believe me.

Errr.

Dear Mr. Moffat,
I am writing to you to tell you that Sherlock isn't as innovative as you thought it was . . .

D: "Now Davros has created a machine-creature," [a Borg] "a monster, which will terrorise and destroy millions and millions" [so not billions then? And not as many as the Time Lords?] "of lives and lands throughout all eternity. He has given this machine a name: a Dalek. The name is new to you, but for a thousand generations, it is a name that will bring fear and terror. Now undoubtedly, Davros has one of the finest scientific minds in existence." [a very high compliment there] "But he has a fanatical desire to perpetuate himself and his machine." [The shot begins to pan over the little miniature 3D map of the area] "He works without conscience, without soul, without pity, and his machines are equally devoid of these qualities."

Aaand we have a Message folks! A subtle one too: science without a conscience, pity, ethics and so on is inhuman. A sentient being without these at least some of these things is a machine, and the textbook definition of a sociopath. It's a good message: science without human moderation is capable of monstrous things. And people say Doctor Who is just an entertainment show for children devoid of meaning.

As an aside, I like how the Kaled city is represented by a slightly pointy sieve. Kind of like a bra cup too. Actually, it was the Thal city and proved a very nice segue into the next scene where we are, yes, back at the site of the atomic rocket with Quasimodo the Mutant and our lovely Sarah Jane Smith. Why is it that whenever I type her name I always miss capitalising the 'j' and have to go back and edit it in? Hooded mutants, aka Nazgul beggars are slowly loading 'chemicals' onto the rocket and Sarah jane Smith starts to collapse on account of being a human exposed to radioactive chemicals without any protection. The Storm Trooper says "When that's packed aboard, she'll get all the rest she needs" [because she'll be dead mwahahahahahaha?] "Now pick up your loads."

That was a quick scene, it serves two purposes (one of which is virtually subconscious and accepted without even realising it). Sarah jane Smith is running out time time, and if something isn't done she'll die soon. And yes, that is a little morbid considering Elisabeth Sladen died a few years ago from cancer - aka 'broken' cells or a predilection towards certain types of genetic mutation, aka, something you are more likely to develop if you are exposed to large amounts of certain types of radiation - thus making me a little uncomfortable. The second purpose is that even the slightly-less-evil-Nazis are performing science (and war) "without conscience, without soul, without pity" showing that monstrosity doesn't require extreme situations (relatively speaking) to develop. It's obvious when you think about it, but maybe not if you just go with the flow.

So. Himmler! Just after an uneasy look from Our Conspirators he tells Davros "I've just had word from one of our conspirators in the dome. Councillor Mogran has called a secret meeting. The only councillors invited are known opponents of the work we are doing here in the bunker." [there were six max! That's hardly a lot, all things considered.] Natch, any risk of opposition is worrisome for our soon-to-be-dictator, so he pulls a News of the World and demands the information from that meeting, by any means necessary.

Davros: "I think we need not be too concerned. MAny times in the last fifty years, factions of the government have tried to interfere with my research here. They have failed, they will fail again." And all's good and dandy until Himmler drops the additional bombshell that Our Boys have escaped their cell. Also, either Darling or TDS is actually called Ronson - I think it's Darling. Yes, Ronson is played by James Garbutt.

Cue the dramatic zoom on Darling and Davros order an investigation of this event and the rather chilling reveal that Darling will be personally dealt with by Davros. You know, this is a situation where having a poorly fitting rubber mask for your character actually makes sense and is really creepy. His face is so flexible I'm left half-wondering if he's going to try to peel it off to rid himself of such disgusting organic material. Plus the subtle way it bends in all the wrong ways makes for a wonderful way to unsettle viewers without them really being able to say why without paying close attention. Same with the really jittery way he moves his hand.

The music throughout this scene by the way is best eloquently summed up as an electro-sythned version of a WWII film (made in the '50s and '60s) soundtrack. It works, after all, sci-fi and synthesisers go well together, and music evocative of films based in WWII perfectly fits this war allegory.

Back in the Not-So-Secret Meeting Room, Our Boys are hoping that the Doctor's speech convinced them to halt Davros' work, and the Doctor says, "Sometimes words aren't enough." And thus greater sanctions up to, and including, war. The councillor's decision comes in, and it's a very realistic one at that. Speaker For the Council: "The council could not agree to half all experimentation in the bunker. [...] It has been agreed that an independent tribunal will investigate all work that has been done at the bunker." I'll just let you make your own pithy remark here.

D: "But that could take months! Davros already has several prototype Daleks ready for action!"

SftC: "It has also been agreed that, pending the investigation, Davros' experiments will be suspended."

D: "It is less than I had hoped for." But realistically, all you could expect. Say what you want about amoral politicians, but these people have been at war a thousand years, desperate to end it, and yet they are still willing to prevent the development of, let's face it, intelligent WMDs, that could end the war in a few weeks, for the sake of people all over the universe. On the word of a person they have never met, or heard of, before that very meeting. Frankly, I'm a little amazed Our Boys got that much and a promise to completely stop all work being done at the bunker if the Doctor's allegations are proven true.

The Doctor must have rolled a natural 20, and got bonuses for RP.

Oh, and while I'm here; this situation sounds very similar to the one in 'A Town Called Mercy' with Carla and the Kryten-lookalike doesn't it? Here it's all the more compelling because while we know the Daleks are amongst the most despicable species of all time, the Kaleds in the story only have the word of one man who honestly could be a Thal spy sent to sabotage them.

H: "Well, now I think it's high time we looked for Sarah, don't you?" You think?! She's been missing for two and a half episodes!

Some guy: "The one you left behind in the wastelands?" No, the other girl called Sarah they left behind in Timbuktu. Natch, Our Boys' interest is piqued and they inquire further, and sweet Angels of Mercy doesn't he look like a snot-nosed, pimply-faced little ponce? I bet he's the spy. It's the fringe. "I can't be certain, you understand, but our agents inside the Thal dome report a newly arrived girl prisoner who led an attempted break-out. Given the Thals quite a bit of trouble. And while I do like the calm certainty with which Our Boys say that it's Sarah jane Smith, it's also very unlikely it isn't Sarah jane Smith.

God I just want to slap that prat senseless. Who was he anyway?

Oh! It's Guy Siner. He was Lieutenant Hubert Gruber from 'Allo 'Allo - you know, the amusingly ambiguously gay German officer. He's also had roles in probably the four most influential sci-fi franchises ever: Doctor Who, Babylon 5, Star Wars and Star Trek, although sadly, he was in ENT. Plus he was in I, Clavdivs. I can see the resemblance now. Plus, now you look between Kaled and Nazi uniforms on the same person you can really see the similarities. I still want to slap him silly, but now I appreciate the effort he put into making me feel that way.

So Lieutenant Gruber's a bit of a fanatic, "What they don't know is that no matter how powerful their rocket it cannot penetrate our protective dome!" That, my little fanatic, is what she said. "Only a few months ago, Davros invented a new substance which has the strength of thirty foot thick reinforced concrete!" Is it called a femdom? Oh Lieutenant Gruber, you're so eager you're practically spitting at the Doctor. It makes it all the more amusing when the Doctor just dismisses this wonderful new invention with a "[N]ever mind about that. Could you help us find Sarah?" because the Doctor's so blasé in the face of his fanaticism. And Gruber is so definitely th spy. He loves Davros.

Wait what. Lt. Gruber know how to get into the service shaft under the Thal city, but he doesn't take advantage of it for strategic sneak attacks and raids?! What kind of fanatic are you when you don't try and gas your enemies out of their homes! It gets better! Lt. G: "Right, I'll [also] give you a map showing how to reach the rocket silo area." Ehm. You know where they keep their rockets. You have a genius scientist. MAKE SOME BOMBS, SEND IN SOME COMMANDOS. GET THEM TO PLANTS BOMBS IN THE THAL'S ROCKET SILOS. BOOM. BOOM. BOOM. War done. Then again, I wouldn't put it past Davros to deliberately sabotage the war effort in order to play with his toys.

Okay, look Mogran (Speaker for the Council) when someone as obviously evil looking and sounding as Davos says "I welcome any inquiry into our work here; I think the idea is an excellent one." you shoot him, and his bodyguards dead on the spot. Especially when someone has lain allegations of perverting the natures of science and the universe to his own benefit at his feet. Well, wheels. While I understand that having a complete stranger make these allegations isn't a trustworthy source, you obviously had enough doubts about Davros and his work to take this accusation of face value. More than that, he's welcoming this investigation meaning you're going to play into his nefarious plots! Just like when Lord Vetinari allows himself to be arrested or likewise . . . inconvenienced, yet he always manages to come out on top, better than ever.

Then again, I think that maybe Mogran's caught onto something, what with Davros' patriotic bull. It's amazingly done,

SftC: "There's one thing more: until the inquiry, all work is to be suspended."

D: "If that is your wish, then naturally I will obey." Shoot. Davros. 2It will take some time to close down certain pieces of equipment." NOW. SHOOT HIM! And now he's asking for twenty-four hours!

SftC: "Twelve." At least he has some sense. A few more platitudes and Mogran leaves, causing Himmler to actually emote. "They cannot fail to see the danger to themselves in the Dalek project!"

Davros: "Calm yourself Nyder. There will be no investigation."

N: "But you can't stop the investigation now."

D: "I can and will. The Council has signed the death warrant of the whole of the Kaled people. Only we, the Elite, we and the Daleks will go on." Davros, you do realise that admitting you desire for nothing more than genocide generally leads to your own men turning on you right?

N: "The whole of the Kaled people? You would go that far?"

D: "Did you ever doubt it?" Well yeah, most sane people done aspire to genocide. I'm expecting Himmler to die any time now.

N: "No." Umm. You're okay with that? Genocide I mean? You're willing to knowingly go along with that? And have done this whole time? Most people tend to baulk at killing that many people. I mean, at least Davros is insane, you seem reasonably sane and rational.

D: "There is much to do." Guys, guys, genocide? The mass slaughter of an entire people? No doubts at all? Well, birds of a feather do flock together. Even when that feather happens to be genocide, and the birds are complete monsters. "I want the genetically conditioned creatures installed in the machines immediately. Twenty of them." Welp.

N: "Twenty? [...] But they are still very erratic, unstable."

D: "They will not be allowed self-control." Davros, dude, when your co-conspirator in genocide is taken aback by your plans, you know something's going to go wrong. "I will compare a computer programme that will limit their actions." Mmmhhmmm, because nothing can go wrong with a computer programme. Nothing at all. "After that, we are going on a journey."

Now we in the Thal base, and at least they're smart enough to station a guard over the service shaft. One who faces the wrong way. AND THEN WALK AWAY WITHOUT BEING RELIEVED BY THE NEXT MAN ON SHIFT, LEAVING IT UNGUARDED. Common sense: use it. Thanks to idiocy Our Boys have infiltrated . . . a corridor in the main BBC headquarters.

How does the Doctor not trip over his scarf? It's insanely long. And what do we see in a Secret Meeting Room in Thaldom?

H: "What's Davros doing here in the Thal city?" Conspiring to kill everything? Well, to find out, Our Boys eavesdrop. Via a vent in the door.

Da: And I am no longer influenced by words such as patriotism and nationalism. My concern is only for peace, an end to this carnage that has virtually destroyed both of our races." Another thought: you and your aide are two of the most important people in the Kaled war effort, how can you slip away from the city entirely? "[...] I have tried over and over again [to tell this to my superiors] but now they will be satisfied with nothing other than total annihilation of the Thal people." Says the pot to the kettle.

Thal Dude: "Then they deserve to perish, and perish they will when we launch our rocket. It's primed and ready." Then Davros spills the beans about the super-concrete. And provides a "super-chemical" to allow the rocket to penetrate the super-concrete.

This, naturally, arouses some suspicions in the Thal leader. "You know that your own people, the Kaleds, will be utterly exterminated."In other words, even after a one thousand year war, the Thals are still prepared to act mercifully to the Kaled people, probably not the government and all, but the common people, yes.

Da: "No price is too great to pay for peace." . . . yeah . . . no price. This is where I'd up and shoot these guys, just on suspicion of supplying false information. And for being creepy. "I only ask that when the war is over I be allowed to help in the reconstruction of our planet."

N: "We want only to see the conflict brought to an end." Thing is, what they're saying is technically true. Just not the way anyone thinks. This is why double-speak and 'I gave my word' contracts are so dangerous. What you mean isn't what they mean. At all.

Da: "By dawn tomorrow, our world could be at peace." By virtue of having wiped the vast majority of them out. At least Thal leader looks sufficiently dubious about this plan.

Of course, after our Nazis leave the room Davros admits that their belief in his words is "unimportant" as they only see the possibility of victory in their hands. Davros, being a manipulative master of human psychology is correct as the Thals emerge to say that orders have been given to launch a "barrage of shells containing the formula [...] as soon as possible"; that being immediately.

Well, at least the Thal leader isn't stupid enough to leave Davros and his crony alone in their city to wreak havoc; not that they need to, but points where points are deserved.

H: "Doctor, we've got to somehow warn Mogran and the other Kaled leaders."

D: "Yes, and we haven't found Sarah yet. Come on." So, let me get this straight: you put saving Sarah jane Smith above warning an entire people of their imminent death because their Chief Scientist betrayed them? I'm not saying Sarah jane Smith isn't important, because she is, but I think she'd understand.

This is so Doctor. "Excuse me, can you help me? I'm a spy." *bashes two heads together* Complete with a cartoony sproingle sound. Naturally the next thing to do is strip them of their bin bags for the usual military cliché.

For the third time all episode w're actually with Sarah jane Smith, who's confused about the idea of people breaking promises. After all, POWs are always treated honourably and let go after performing hard labour. I mean, who ever heard of expendable mooks before? SJS: [W]hen [the rocket]'s fired, the exhaust will burn us up . . . " and the penny drops.

You know, for someone who's performed hours of back breaking forced labour she doesn't look all that tired.

Ah. Enter Our Boys, who summon over the one guard and 'punch' him unconscious. If we follow cliché, they'll be caught in a few moments. The Doctor orders her and Harry to go back to the Kaled dome to warn them about the Thal offensive. "There's a chance if they launch an all-out offensive, I might be able to stop the rocket." So in a wonderfully ironic situation the Doctor is going to protect the most-Nazi-like Kaleds over the Thals. And the Kaleds are the ones who created the Daleks. Irony done right is beautiful.

Everyone legs it, except for the Doctor (and the NPCs, they just shuffle) while the Doctor stares up at the imposing(ly fake) rocket.

Back with Harry, Sarah jane Smith and . . . Sevrin (note to self: not Severus) they hop down the service shaft just in time to have Thal NPCs run up to the hole and shoot into it with their guns. Alas poor Sevrin, we knew you . . . better than any of the other Muto/Thal NPCs.

back with the Doctor, he's fiddling around with some 'wires' (read: pushing his hand in the gaps between prop pieces looking like he's doing something) when the unconscious guard suddenly becomes conscious. The music here is mostly drums, so it's making for some tense stuff actually. Then the guard pushes the button (of course it's red) that somehow magnetically pulls the Doctor to some fence and begins to electrocute him! Oh noes!

Scream out!

Preview: No preview this time.

Best Moment: The political manoeuvring in general. I'm never really given the impression that the writing is taking control of the scene for the benefit of the main -tagonists (be they pro- or an-) and the result is a very human mix of compromises where no ones entirely satisfied, and certainly people are suspicious of what has been said, but they overall agree with the outcome.

Worst Moment: Seriously, the existence of that clam raises so many questions. It also breaks the atmosphere and doesn't really seem to fit the mood of the serial at all. We have a serious allegory for war - both atomic, Cold and WWI as well as actions taken in wars, that also discusses scientific ethics, morality in general, and the ethics of genocide specifically and it's the birth of the greatest villain in Doctor Who's history and the introduction of their Creator . . . and there's a brief two minute scuffle with a giant clam.

Was this forced into the script because of meddling from another source?

And yet in spite of this it's still better science than 1990s Star Trek.

Best Actor: Michael Fisher is amazing; Tom Baker is amazing; Peter Miles (as Nyder) is amazing; they're all really good.

Worst Actor: Well, Ian Marter's a bit flat as harry Sullivan, but Harry seems rather a flat character.

Best Special Effect: Davros. All of it.

Worst Special Effect: The clam because it's a giant clam.

Most Punchable Character: Lt. Gruber. I want to slap that oily little pissant silly.

Death Count: It's a war, so lots. But onscreen, four or so.

Kink of the Episode: I very much admire Sarah jane Smith's boots and would like to know where she got them.

Was Not Expecting: The clam, for reasons outlined above.

Overall thoughts?
Since when did Doctor Who become a tense political thriller/war drama full of grey ethical and moral decisions with no real right side. Aside from the 'Daleks are evil and wrong' thing.
Even the cheapness of the sets just enforces the stark realities of war and stuff. That and it shows that even at what is probably its budgetary heights it wasn't much of a high. However, they put it to very good use.
The clam was a blip on the radar though, so out-of-place.
I'm reminded of a comment my English teacher made in Y10 when we were studying Macbeth. 'This play is all about tension, and it's constantly running high from the beginning - political conspiracies, regicide, murder, madness, suicide, ghosts, guilt, infanticide, war! The doorkeeper's scene is so humorous, because it is a moment of bathos - a sudden transition from high drama to common humour that releases all the tension built up until that point in time.'
But humour is the thing that changes the most over time, so it may not be as effective now as it was then. I can't help but think that perhaps the clam scene was intended to have a similar effect, and relieve tension. Not that I think this 'humour' would have worked when it aired either. But the rest of the serial is very tense and quiet, and sometimes a little farcical, but it works.

EDIT:
@Dr. Simon: I got this avvie back in early 2008. There was a GB Week, and boy is to girl as cat is to dog. Truthfully, the Dog looks a lot like both of my dogs too, and sadly, they're both as noisy.
Nice to hear a bit more about 'Colony' but I think I'll still go with a tentative 'Day'. And that pun about the CIA, that is so cheesy.

[Friv]

'Genesis of the Daleks' part 3/6 (season 12, serial 4)

Yay! Genesis remains one of my favorite Doctor Who serials, for all the reasons you're discussing. :)

So a couple of responses.

Spoiler

Show

Oh, and, of course, Harry steps into it. My one overwhelming question is: how didn’t he see this enormous and conspicuously out-of-place bivalve mollusc right in front of him?!

There is a simple explanation for this. I think the Doctor can say it best.

Why would Davros experiment to make mutant giant clams?

Wouldn't you?

Wait what. Lt. Gruber know how to get into the service shaft under the Thal city, but he doesn't take advantage of it for strategic sneak attacks and raids?! What kind of fanatic are you when you don't try and gas your enemies out of their homes! It gets better! Lt. G: "Right, I'll [also] give you a map showing how to reach the rocket silo area." Ehm. You know where they keep their rockets. You have a genius scientist. MAKE SOME BOMBS, SEND IN SOME COMMANDOS. GET THEM TO PLANTS BOMBS IN THE THAL'S ROCKET SILOS. BOOM. BOOM. BOOM. War done. Then again, I wouldn't put it past Davros to deliberately sabotage the war effort in order to play with his toys.

That, um... Huh. Somehow I missed that on my first run through that serial.

Okay, look Mogran (Speaker for the Council) when someone as obviously evil looking and sounding as Davos says "I welcome any inquiry into our work here; I think the idea is an excellent one." you shoot him, and his bodyguards dead on the spot.

Unfortunately, some courts, they do not accept the evil voice as evidence.

[Hullabaloo]

Took a quick spin around the BBCAmerica page, but could not find when the next new episode is coming out. Help?

[Dienekes]

April I believe. Exact date unknown.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

April I believe. Exact date unknown.

APRIL!? GAH. T-T

EDIT: @v : That better?

[Hullabaloo]

APRIL!? GAH. T-T

^this, only more bolded.

[Androgeus]

If anyone needs some form of Who to tide them over, another audio play will be starting on 4extra next Monday at 6pm, repeated at midnight, and will be on iplayer. This one is Death at Blackpool and stars Paul Mcgann as the Doctor and Sheridan Smith as the companion.

[Dr. Simon]

Or actually, I will do what is more standard and put it to a vote! Would people rather see me move ahead chronologically with The Silurians, which should be worth a laugh, or skip ahead to the Master's first appearance next season?

Hmm... The Silurians vs. Terror of the Autons... That's a bit like Curly's choice, neither are ones I'd leap up and say "Ooh yes, do that one!". Although... on balance, I'd say do both, in chronological order. Silurians is quite entertaining, in actual fact. Terror is pretty silly but it does introduce both Jo and the Master, as well as killer daffodils and really bad colour seperation overlay.

Meanwhile...

Yay, more classic reviews from Curly. I have two main thoughts from your review. The first is your point about the strength of the production team behind Genesis - this is something that always strikes me when people discuss who is the "best" Doctor. Although obviously the actor make a lot of difference, there are also periods for each Doctor that are better than others, due to the writers and producers involved at that time as well as the companion actor(s) and these can have a huge impact on the quality of the final product. The first few series for Tom Baker are arguably those where everyone is really firing on all cylinders, and contain more top quality stories than most others, whereas the later Fourth Doctor seasons where Douglas Adams and John Nathan-Turner are in charge are not as effective somehow.

Secondly; the giant clam. Yeeees (Paxman sneer). I think Terry Nation felt that he had to have some kind of duct/tunnel escape and a "monster" in every one of his scripts. That kind of thing feels like it crops up a lot (particularly the original Dalek serial and Planet of the Daleks).

Finally, I notice that we are probably due a new thread. Might I suggest, since the Third Thread used a quote from the Third Doctor for its title, that the Fourth Thread use one from the Fourth Doctor? "Ah-Haar" is probably a bit obscure, but I tentatively propose "Would You Like A Jelly Baby?"

[Avaris]

Finally, I notice that we are probably due a new thread. Might I suggest, since the Third Thread used a quote from the Third Doctor for its title, that the Fourth Thread use one from the Fourth Doctor? "Ah-Haar" is probably a bit obscure, but I tentatively propose "Would You Like A Jelly Baby?"

We're only on page 36 of 50 by my count... though second doing something from the 4th doctor for eventual title

[CurlyKitGirl]

Yay! Genesis remains one of my favorite Doctor Who serials, for all the reasons you're discussing. :)

Can totally see why this is one of the best ever, and unless something goes horrifically badly in the last half I may very well put this in my top three. I'm sorry, but for fangirl's sake NEIL GAIMAN AND DOCTOR WHO. Even if that episode was awful 'The Doctor's Wife' would still be in my top three.
Heck, even the pacing is really good because the slowness builds up the tension.

So a couple of responses.

Spoiler

Show

There is a simple explanation for this. I think the Doctor can say it best.

I look forward to that serial and will save this video for any other moments of particularly glaring Harry Idiocy.

Wouldn't you?

. . . well, yes, but only because there's a species or two of clams that scientists suspect are biologically immortal, and even if it turns out they're not, there are clams whose age has been estimated to be four hundred years old.

That, um... Huh. Somehow I missed that on my first run through that serial.

That's fine. It's customary to turn off one's logic when watching Doctor Who, and it's easy to let things by when watching any show.

Unfortunately, some courts, they do not accept the evil voice as evidence.

Heh, that was pretty funny.
Then it was sad. Why? Mitchell and Webb did another sketch about a detective.

If anyone needs some form of Who to tide them over, another audio play will be starting on 4extra next Monday at 6pm, repeated at midnight, and will be on iplayer. This one is Death at Blackpool and stars Paul Mcgann as the Doctor and Sheridan Smith as the companion.

I'll give that a listen then when it's on iPlayer. If I remember. An Eighth Doctor episode could be interesting.

Yay, more classic reviews from Curly. I have two main thoughts from your review. The first is your point about the strength of the production team behind Genesis - this is something that always strikes me when people discuss who is the "best" Doctor. Although obviously the actor make a lot of difference, there are also periods for each Doctor that are better than others, due to the writers and producers involved at that time as well as the companion actor(s) and these can have a huge impact on the quality of the final product. The first few series for Tom Baker are arguably those where everyone is really firing on all cylinders, and contain more top quality stories than most others, whereas the later Fourth Doctor seasons where Douglas Adams and John Nathan-Turner are in charge are not as effective somehow.

I do try to spread the praise, or blame as the case may be. Sadly I tend not to go further than the writer and Murray Gold, but I have been trying to look further backstage.
I mean, Doctor Who has Names, and not just actors. I try to keep myself as ignorant as possible, but even I know some of these Backstage Names, so it behooves me to find out more about them and their other works.
And if that sounds pompous, which it probably does, I like finding these things out, and I wouldn't have such high/low expectations of things if I didn't have knowledge of some of the background of these people.
I already enjoyed 'Remembrance of the Daleks', but when I found out exactly what else Ben Aaronovitch has done my expectations rocketed and I found a new appreciation for the serial.
Not to mention overarching themes for a person. Take the latest Sexism in Doctor Who discussion; after some research into the actual content of shows previously done by Stephen Moffatt I can say quite definitively that:
1) One theme that he does very well is a messed up relationship and that,
2) It is a very rare show of his that does not dwell on a romantic or familial relationship at depth.
3) He likes entering into discussions about marriage and romantic partnerships a lot.
For producers and whatnot this colours their entire tenure. Now I know about Barry Letts and his tenure, combined with some vague knowledge of the serials done under his reign I can guess at themes and motifs that are likely to recur again and again. Hammer horror homages, period pieces and intrigue. A darker tone, and one that has more violence and violent themes than previously, or afterwards.

Secondly; the giant clam. Yeeees (Paxman sneer). I think Terry Nation felt that he had to have some kind of duct/tunnel escape and a "monster" in every one of his scripts. That kind of thing feels like it crops up a lot (particularly the original Dalek serial and Planet of the Daleks).

Joy, gratuitous monsters. Couldn't have cut those two minutes over pointless fighting and actually given Sarah jane Smith some time on screen could we?
The day I find a monster-free (for a given level of monster) episode/serial of Doctor Who I will rejoice unto the Heavens alleluia in nomine deus et angeli! before playing something happy.
Tension shouldn't be undercut so painfully.
It's a shame Terry Nation feels this need because otherwise I've very much enjoyed this first script of his.

Finally, I notice that we are probably due a new thread. Might I suggest, since the Third Thread used a quote from the Third Doctor for its title, that the Fourth Thread use one from the Fourth Doctor? "Ah-Haar" is probably a bit obscure, but I tentatively propose "Would You Like A Jelly Baby?"

Is it wrong of me to automatically that just would be the title? It was the same for Three too. Three reverses the polarity of neutron flows while Four offers people jellybabies and Five . . . eats celery?
Six though would have to refer to the coat. VI: Not That Coat Again!
VII: UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING! Or perhaps something about Nitro-9.
VIII: These Shoes Are Amazing.
IX: Fantastic!
X: I'm So Sorry (For Angsting All Over Your Fun). That or X: Allons-y!
XI: I'm the Doctor Now, Doctor's Are Cool.

[Sunken Valley]

5 would be: Brave heart Tegan
6: VILLAIN!
7: I am so much more than just a time lord (relevant as by the time we get there we'll probably be deep into the Doctors true name arc)
8: Who am I?
9-11: are spot on Curly.

[CurlyKitGirl]

5 would be: Brave heart Tegan

Tegan being a Companion? Only I knew two Tegans in my year growing up, and it's amusing to imagine them in the TARDIS.

6: VILLAIN!

"Oh villain, villain, smiling, damned villain
My tables* - meet** it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain"?

*notebook
**fitting

7: I am so much more than just a time lord (relevant as by the time we get there we'll probably be deep into the Doctors true name arc)

Doubtful as this 'true name arc', if addressed at all will be during the fiftieth anniversary specials. At least, that's how things seem to be going at the moment.

8: Who am I?

Who are you? Who, who, who are you
I really wanna know!

9-11: are spot on Curly.

Well those ones are easy. About as easy as Three and Four.

[Reverent-One]

X: A wibbly wobbly timey wimey thread would be a fun one for Ten as well.

[Androgeus]

"Oh villain, villain, smiling, damned villain
My tables* - meet** it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain"?

I think he's referring to this scene in The Twin dilemma, not some poxy Shakespeare

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Wait...so...when it reaches 50 pages...the Doctor Who thread...regenerates?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Wait...so...when it reaches 50 pages...the Doctor Who thread...regenerates?

Yes exactly

Threads are the Time Lords and the board is Gallifrery.

Though the limit is more then thirteen.....

[Mercenary Pen]

The question is of course whether we try and create a thread 12.5 to serve as the Valeyard's part in all of this...

[Dr. Simon]

We're only on page 36 of 50 by my count... though second doing something from the 4th doctor for eventual title

Ah, so it's 50+ pages, not 1000+ posts as I thought. Getting my BBs mixed up. (It used to be 1000+ posts on Enworld but there seems to be no limit now).

Not to mention overarching themes for a person. Take the latest Sexism in Doctor Who discussion; after some research into the actual content of shows previously done by Stephen Moffatt I can say quite definitively that:
1) One theme that he does very well is a messed up relationship and that,
2) It is a very rare show of his that does not dwell on a romantic or familial relationship at depth.
3) He likes entering into discussions about marriage and romantic partnerships a lot.

Let us not forget that he wrote the sitcom Coupling, and I think a lot of that style sometimes leaks over into his Who.

For producers and whatnot this colours their entire tenure. Now I know about Barry Letts and his tenure, combined with some vague knowledge of the serials done under his reign I can guess at themes and motifs that are likely to recur again and again. Hammer horror homages, period pieces and intrigue. A darker tone, and one that has more violence and violent themes than previously, or afterwards.

Most notable during Tom Baker's second season, where pretty much every story was inspired by a classic horror trope. But the first and third Baker seasons were also largely darker in tone than what had gone before. Which could be why they are some of the best. In my mind, anything that upset Mary Whitehouse had something going for it.

The day I find a monster-free (for a given level of monster) episode/serial of Doctor Who I will rejoice unto the Heavens alleluia in nomine deus et angeli! before playing something happy.

The First Doctor serial "Edge of Destruction" is an odd two-parter between "The Daleks" and "Marco Polo", so the third story ever, where a fault in the TARDIS sends it heading back to the start of time, and basically involves The Doctor, Ian, Susan and Barbara getting angry with each other under the pressure (also at this stage the Doctor has effectively kidnapped the two teachers and it was his fault they got stranded on Skaro). I'd like to see a retread of that.

And don't forget that all the First Doctor historicals (and the first few Second Doctor historical stories too) don't feature alien monsters, although as you say a "given level of monster" you might include Nero or Robespierre as a "monster". Quite often, though, the human adversaries are quite nuanced (see esp. The Aztecs or The Crusades).

[Aotrs Commander]

Heh, that was pretty funny.
Then it was sad. Why? Mitchell and Webb did another sketch about a detective.

Ye gods.

That was honestly heart-breaking, and this is ME saying that. (Probably doesn't help that I know a family member who's now suffering severe dementia (she doesn't really remember anyone any more).) That was masterfully done. Coming out of a comedy sketch, of course, makes it more so, because of the mood whiplash, used to great effect here. Superlative piece of acting.

[Weezer]

Ye gods.

That was honestly heart-breaking, and this is ME saying that. (Probably doesn't help that I know a family member who's now suffering severe dementia (she doesn't really remember anyone any more).) That was masterfully done. Coming out of a comedy sketch, of course, makes it more so, because of the mood whiplash, used to great effect here. Superlative piece of acting.

Yeah, that is one of the most depressing pieces of sketch 'comedy' I've ever seen.

[CurlyKitGirl]

X: A wibbly wobbly timey wimey thread would be a fun one for Ten as well.

It is one of his more memorable quotes, we can put it up there for consideration. We are after all, still a dozen pages from the end of the third thread after all.

I think he's referring to this scene in The Twin dilemma, not some poxy Shakespeare

That is such a hammy clip. And I apologise for quoting such tawdry, sexually explicit, popular fiction, I'll make sure not to do so next time.
After all, children do read this thread. Possible. And we don't want them reading Shakespeare now do we?

Yes exactly

Threads are the Time Lords and the board is Gallifrery.

Though the limit is more then thirteen.....

Then who's the Rani?!
And which one's the Master?

The question is of course whether we try and create a thread 12.5 to serve as the Valeyard's part in all of this...

'

'Tis a mythology gag! It must be done. Now to find find a snappy/memorable line of his . . .

Let us not forget that he wrote the sitcom Coupling, and I think a lot of that style sometimes leaks over into his Who.

From what I skim read I can see its influence, but I'd have to actually watch the show to make accurate comparisons.

Most notable during Tom Baker's second season, where pretty much every story was inspired by a classic horror trope. But the first and third Baker seasons were also largely darker in tone than what had gone before. Which could be why they are some of the best. In my mind, anything that upset Mary Whitehouse had something going for it.

Yay! I love classic horror tropes! I have, on my new bookcase, many of the codifiers of horror and gothic horror! So much fun.
And yes, anything that upsets Mary Whitehouse is a good idea. Hell, the Goodies, after finding out she thought their show was morally clean and good and thus worthy of her approval, immediately went and wrote an episode designed to be everything she hates.
Just goes to show Mary Whitehouse is everyone's bitch (pardon my Talaxian) and seemingly one of the most reviled/annoying people to ever be involved with television.
Seriously, you check TVTropes' Moral Guardians page and half of the examples seem to be a parody of her/inspired by her/written explicitly to defy/satirise her.

The First Doctor serial "Edge of Destruction" is an odd two-parter between "The Daleks" and "Marco Polo", so the third story ever, where a fault in the TARDIS sends it heading back to the start of time, and basically involves The Doctor, Ian, Susan and Barbara getting angry with each other under the pressure (also at this stage the Doctor has effectively kidnapped the two teachers and it was his fault they got stranded on Skaro). I'd like to see a retread of that.

And don't forget that all the First Doctor historicals (and the first few Second Doctor historical stories too) don't feature alien monsters, although as you say a "given level of monster" you might include Nero or Robespierre as a "monster". Quite often, though, the human adversaries are quite nuanced (see esp. The Aztecs or The Crusades).

When I say 'given level of monster' I mean, humans can be complete and utter monsters, so let's see that. Doctor Who often shows humanity at its best, both as individuals and groups, and we do see humanity at its worst. But usually only as a group.
I want to see soulless, corrupt hating humans who are like that because they are. No/few aliens involved. And preferably sane or rational people doing it.
That's why I like Tobias Vaughn. His perfect humanity just so happens to coincide with Cybermen ideals, so he allies with them, but it's all his idea. Nyder in 'Genesis of the Daleks' is even more disgusting than Davros because he's clearly a sane person, yet he just approves of a genocide as if it were nothing.
It's why I liked the twist in 'The Snowmen', Dr. Simeon was quite literally his own shoulder devil and I liked that. Shame it was undermined in the end, but it was a good twist.
No aliens from outside space. Just make it a domestic thing. One of the creepiest and saddest stories I've ever read is The Sacred and the Profane, a Good Omens fanfic with the simple premise: what if Aziraphale Fell?
On of the first actions we are shown is that he's going to bludgeon the Antichrist (at this point a babe in arms) to death 'to stop it crying'.
Do something like that. Someone who does bad things because they want or need to. No aliens!

Ye gods.

That was honestly heart-breaking, and this is ME saying that. (Probably doesn't help that I know a family member who's now suffering severe dementia (she doesn't really remember anyone any more).) That was masterfully done. Coming out of a comedy sketch, of course, makes it more so, because of the mood whiplash, used to great effect here. Superlative piece of acting.

It gets worse. That series there was an ongoing 'backstage' plot where Mitchell and Webb acting as in-universe Mitchell and Webbs were discussing drama bomb finales in comedy shows. Naturally, the one they talk about is Blackadder Goes Forth, and they say it's a bit pointless trying for such a thing nowadays because they always ruin the punch by having the announcer speak over the credits. So that episode they parody it by doing a comedic drama-by-death thing.
The next episode is the last one in the series/show proper (I forget which) and they have 'Old Holmes' as the last sketch.
There's no announcer over the credits.
They told you how it was going to end, and why earlier on.
Laugh, laugh, oh look, it's funny because Holmes isn't being Sherlock Holmes, he's old and senile and - oh, this is quite sad and desperate really . . .
"I know John"
*waitwotsilence*
"I just . . . can't get the fog to clear"
*heartbreak on and off-screen*
And always that sad little violin plays.
Until the end of the credits.

The acting and everything in that sketch is perfectly designed to go from humour to awkwardness tinged with sadness to Robert Webb stop looking as if you're about to cry and David Mitchell how dare you!

Yeah, that is one of the most depressing pieces of sketch 'comedy' I've ever seen.

Deliberately tailored too.

[Aotrs Commander]

The acting and everything in that sketch is perfectly designed to go from humour to awkwardness tinged with sadness to Robert Webb stop looking as if you're about to cry and David Mitchell how dare you!

Deliberately tailored too.

And so well done, it's better than the moments in a lot of actual "proper" dramas. Seriously, I don't think there were many moments (if any) that I found that hard-hitting on Doctor Who! And they did that with so little build-up, too.

Thanks for sharing that, by the way. I've seen a lot of Mitchell and Webb clips on the 'net (I think always missed the show when it was on) - I think they are both - and David Mitchell especially - are extremelt funny, but that one stands as one of their best, if not for the same reasons.

[Weezer]

Deliberately tailored too.

And damn well tailored at that. Definitely Mitchel and Webbs best work (that I've seen at least)

[Thufir]

Then who's the Rani?!
And which one's the Master?

If threads are Time Lords, the Master is obviously the thread with the greatest desire to take over the forums. Ponies maybe? RB?

And yes, anything that upsets Mary Whitehouse is a good idea. Hell, the Goodies, after finding out she thought their show was morally clean and good and thus worthy of her approval, immediately went and wrote an episode designed to be everything she hates.

And directly mocking her, no less.

When I say 'given level of monster' I mean, humans can be complete and utter monsters, so let's see that. Doctor Who often shows humanity at its best, both as individuals and groups, and we do see humanity at its worst. But usually only as a group.
I want to see soulless, corrupt hating humans who are like that because they are. No/few aliens involved. And preferably sane or rational people doing it.

But that doesn't have to be independent of more standard monsters, right? Seems so from some of your examples. So, we've definitely had a few one could make a case for in Nu Who, to varying extents of evilness. Van Statten, the Editor, Cassandra, Max, Lumic, Whatshisname played by Lord Percy, Ratigan, *Name or names omitted due to Curlers*, everyone in Rebel Flesh/Almost People, Solomon.

[pffh]

Ye gods.

That was honestly heart-breaking, and this is ME saying that. (Probably doesn't help that I know a family member who's now suffering severe dementia (she doesn't really remember anyone any more).) That was masterfully done. Coming out of a comedy sketch, of course, makes it more so, because of the mood whiplash, used to great effect here. Superlative piece of acting.

Yeah, that is one of the most depressing pieces of sketch 'comedy' I've ever seen.

It was their homage to the Blackadder ending so if it was funny and heart wrenching they succeeded.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Then who's the Rani?!
And which one's the Master?

'

Well I figure this one is obvious, ponythread is Doctor Whooves (yes) and the rest I have no idea.

Maybe the Master is versus threads, since he never properly regenerates yet always pops back up?