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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by Giegue View Post
    *Snip!*
    Looks good. I shall reference this when building the Wizard.

    Also, how does it sound for the Occultist to have lots of Rushes, but spend Rushes on attacks?
    Last edited by Chainsaw Hobbit; 2012-06-15 at 07:11 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    So far as rituals go, I definitely recommend this approach I've house ruled:

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188861

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    I just wrote a post on my blog about Magic Sword. Its worth reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    So far as rituals go, I definitely recommend this approach I've house ruled:

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188861
    Looks great. I shall draw from your house rule when designing the ritual system.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    Also, as for secondary ability scores for schools, here's my ideas for what would work best for each...

    Enchantment: Charisma. This one is kinda obvious since enchantment spells deal most with social interaction and similar things. This is a no brainier, really. I mean, what kind of enchanter can't manipulate people. This just fits, and in 4e enchanters made use of charisma and social skills a lot so this makes a very nice nod to the 4e enchanter.

    Illusion: Dexterity. Why? Because despite 4e having illusionist mages be wis secondary, Illusion always seemed to be the school most associated with trickery and deception. Thus, to shake things up I thought it would be interesting to make illusionists "trickster mages" not much unlike a beguiler from 3.5e. Dexterity is used for many "trickster" skills such as stealth and slight of hand and since a wizard can now pick up these skills due to your new skill system, it just seems to make sense for illusionist to be dex-based to use such skills.(Also, class bonuses to stealth and slight of hand are probably good skills to give a bonus to if schools will give skill bonuses.)

    Necromancy: Charisma. Why? For a nod back to older editions of D&D. Out of all the ability scores, charisma is the one most associated with Necromancy. In 3.5e the Dread Necromancer uses cha as a casting stat. Rebuking is based off of cha. Heck, undead even used charisma for con checks and many, many other uses. Also, necromancers being good manipulators of people fits very, very well with their usually villainous roll.

    Conjuration: Constitution. If conjuration will have the bulk of summoning powers, then this makes the most mechanical sense as higher con means harder to kill summons. In addition, the 4e summoner was con-secondary, and this would be a very nice nod to the 4e summoner fluff-wise.

    Divination: Wisdom. This is, again, painfully obvious fluff wise. Divination reveals information from the future, and gives the wizard INSIGHT into events. Divination essentially reveals to the wizard wisdom, which makes wis the perfect secondary for divination fluff wise. I don't know why, but wisdom just really seems to fit divination for me.

    Transmutation: Constitution. Lets face it, if your going to mutate yourself, transform yourself into a monster and use magic to mess with your body on a regular basis it probably makes sense for you to have a healthy body. Otherwise your chances of surviving such things would probably be slim. Con just fits transmutation like wisdom fits divination.

    Evocation: Dexterity. This one was difficult for me to think of. Evocation has never really been associated with an ability score. However, it is associated with blasting, combat and damage dealing, and thus I felt dexterity was appropriate. An Evoker to me is a "battle wizard" who uses magic primarily for combat, and since you said you did not want wizards to be good at melee(so strength secondary is out of the picture.) dexterity fits the "combat mage" roll best. I mean, if I where a mage focused on being effective in combat I'd want to be able to dodge attacks well, move quickly across the battlefield and start the fight first.

    Abjuration: Wisdom. Again, this one was kinda difficult for me to decide. Abjuration has never really been tied to any ability score theme-wise. However, since abjuration is all about defense and counterspelling, wisdom was the best fit for me. Somebody with high wisdom would be more likely to realize that they should always be ready to defend themselves and have contingencies for when things go wrong, and as a result wisdom thus seemed fitting for abjuration. However, if you have a better idea for a score for this school I'm all ears.
    Last edited by Giegue; 2012-06-15 at 08:06 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by Giegue View Post
    Also, as for secondary ability scores for schools, here's my ideas for what would work best for each...

    Enchantment: Charisma. This one is kinda obvious since enchantment spells deal most with social interaction and similar things. This is a no brainier, really. I mean, what kind of enchanter can't manipulate people. This just fits, and in 4e enchanters made use of charisma and social skills a lot so this makes a very nice nod to the 4e enchanter.

    Illusion: Dexterity. Why? Because despite 4e having illusionist mages be wis secondary, Illusion always seemed to be the school most associated with trickery and deception. Thus, to shake things up I thought it would be interesting to make illusionists "trickster mages" not much unlike a beguiler from 3.5e. Dexterity is used for many "trickster" skills such as stealth and slight of hand and since a wizard can now pick up these skills due to your new skill system, it just seems to make sense for illusionist to be de3x-based to use such skills.(Also, class bonuses to stealth and slight of hand are probably good skills to give a bonus to if schools will give skill bonuses.)

    Necromancy: Charisma. Why? For a nod back to older editions of D&D. Our of all the ability scores, charisma is the one most associated with Necromancy. In 3.5e the Dread Necromancer uses cha as a casting stat. Rebuking is based off of cha. Heck, undead even used charisma for con checks and many, many other uses. Also, necromancers being good manipulators of people fits very, very well with their usually villainous roll.

    Conjuration: Constitution. If conjuration will have the bulk of summoning powers, then this makes the most mechanical sense as higher con means harder to kill summons. In addition, the 4e summoner was con-secondary, and this would be a very nice nod to the 4e summoner fluff-wise.

    Divination: Wisdom. This is, again, painfully obvious fluff wise. Divination reveals information from the future, and gives the wizard INSIGHT into events. Divination essentially reveals to the wizard wisdom, which makes wis the perfect secondary for divination fluff wise. I don't know why, but wisdom just really seems to fit divination for me.

    Transmutation: Constitution. Lets face it, if your going to mutate yourself, transform yourself into a monster and use magic to mess with your body on a regular basis it probably makes sense for you to have a healthy body. Otherwise your chances of surviving such things would probably be slim. Con just fits transmutation like wisdom fits divination.

    Evocation: Dexterity. This one was difficult for me to think. Evocation has never really been associated with an ability score. However, it is associated with blasting, combat and damage dealing, and thus I felt dexterity was appropriate. An Evoker to me is a "battle wizard" who uses magic primarily for combat, and since you said you did not want wizards to be good at melee(so strength secondary is out of the picture.) dexterity fits the "combat mage" roll best. I mean, if I where a mage focused on being effective in combat I'd want to be able to dodge attacks well, move quickly across the battlefield and start the fight first.

    Abjuration: Wisdom. Again, this one was kinda difficult for me to decide. Abjuration has never really been tied to any ability score theme-wise. However, since evocation is all about defense and counterspelling, wisdom was the best fit for me. Somebody with high wisdom would be more likely to realize that they should always be ready to defend themselves and have contingencies for when things go wrong, and as a result wisdom thus seemed fitting for abjuration. However, if you have a better idea for a score for this school I'm all ears.
    I agree with all of this, pretty much 100%. However, in the Core Book, the only supported schools will be Enchantment, Evocation, Conjuration, and Necromancy. Later, other schools will be added.
    Last edited by Chainsaw Hobbit; 2012-06-15 at 08:06 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    First off, no secondary abilities should overlap with the primary unless you want to kludge in a fix like using Dex or half of Intelligence in place of Cha/Wis/Con/Str for Will or Fortitude.

    Third, my take on the schools and their secondaries where they deviate from the above:

    Illusion: Charisma. I don't feel this needs explanation.

    Necromancy: Constitution or Charisma should work for this one; force of will or force of spirit.

    Evocation: Constitution. I'd always imagined wizards from this school tapping into both physical and mental reserves to invoke huge blasts of eviscerating power.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    First off, no secondary abilities should overlap with the primary unless you want to kludge in a fix like using Dex or half of Intelligence in place of Cha/Wis for Will or Fortitude.

    Third, my take on the schools and their secondaries where they deviate from the above:

    Illusion: Charisma. I don't feel this needs explanation.

    Necromancy: Constitution or Charisma should work for this one; force of will or force of spirit.

    Evocation: Constitution. I'd always imagined wizards from this school tapping into both physical and mental reserves to invoking huge blasts of eviscerating power.
    Fair enough, but I would still prefer to use Dextarity for evocation. Perhaps a high Dextarity could add a bit of extra damage ...

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    I personally prefer Cha over Con for Necromancy. Mainly because of the fact I feel a Necromancer should be a good manipulator seeing the roll necromancers usually play, and as you said, the fluff fits. Also, Surrealistik, I do like your take on the Necromancer that's in your sig, and when we do get to working on making the features I think your necromancer could be a good starting point, though we will have to make it less "leader' and more "controller" and probably will do away with necrofocus and other exclusive mechanics for the sake of streamlining the school/class.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    It's true that certain mechanics would need to be shaved from an archetype that shares its class with so many others. That said, I definitely see a Necro as being primary controller, secondary leader.

    Second, I'm not so sure I see why Necromancers should be Cha exclusive; I don't see all of them as manipulators and schemers. In fact, the idea of a Necro as being aloof, introverted, and otherwise happy to keep to itself (most likely the 'good' kind), is a pretty strong one. I say Necros should be able to use either Con or Cha as their secondary.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    Hey Chainsaw?

    What's the next base character?
    Spoiler
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    This is the thief who likes to hoard,
    That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
    That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
    That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
    That has the gender unexplored
    That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
    That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
    That follows the cleric,
    That serves the lich,
    That seeks the gate,
    That guards the snarl,
    That lives in the prison the gods built.


    guess what I was gone but now I'm back

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Elf Bard View Post
    Hey Chainsaw?

    What's the next base character?
    A human Marshal clad in furs and leather armour, with a wild, unkempt beard and limbs like tree-trunks. He grasps his oversized blade in one hand, and beacons his allies forth with the other.

    Also, do you have the drawing of the wizard? If so, I would like to see it, please.
    Last edited by Chainsaw Hobbit; 2012-06-17 at 04:59 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    Major updates to the Marhsal class near the bottom of the doc.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone

    I have begun to work on the system again. Do you think surprise rounds should be made more potent?

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Definitely. I mean, if someone jumps into a room that you're standing in and slashes at you, without any warning?

    Yeah.

    Also, I'll scan in the wizard soon. It's a black-and-white- drawing, inked, yet I have no coloring system.
    Spoiler
    Show
    This is the thief who likes to hoard,
    That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
    That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
    That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
    That has the gender unexplored
    That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
    That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
    That follows the cleric,
    That serves the lich,
    That seeks the gate,
    That guards the snarl,
    That lives in the prison the gods built.


    guess what I was gone but now I'm back

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Elf Bard View Post
    Definitely. I mean, if someone jumps into a room that you're standing in and slashes at you, without any warning?

    Yeah.

    Also, I'll scan in the wizard soon. It's a black-and-white- drawing, inked, yet I have no coloring system.
    Thank you so much for the drawing.

    I made it so that if one gets a surprise round, they can take a full turn, not just a single action. They also get Combat Advantage during the surprise round, which has become more significant.

    Now the element of surprise is a major advantage, rather than just a minor perk.
    Last edited by Chainsaw Hobbit; 2012-06-23 at 08:49 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Scratch the inking. I thought I did. But I didn't.

    Will ink later.

    Spoiler
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    ..yeah, um, not great.
    Spoiler
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    This is the thief who likes to hoard,
    That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
    That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
    That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
    That has the gender unexplored
    That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
    That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
    That follows the cleric,
    That serves the lich,
    That seeks the gate,
    That guards the snarl,
    That lives in the prison the gods built.


    guess what I was gone but now I'm back

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Elf Bard View Post
    Scratch the inking. I thought I did. But I didn't.

    Will ink later.

    Spoiler
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    ..yeah, um, not great.
    It has potential. A couple more takes, and it could be good.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    What should I change, besides inking?
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    This is the thief who likes to hoard,
    That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
    That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
    That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
    That has the gender unexplored
    That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
    That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
    That follows the cleric,
    That serves the lich,
    That seeks the gate,
    That guards the snarl,
    That lives in the prison the gods built.


    guess what I was gone but now I'm back

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    The arms are a bit long. Also, it might look better from a three-quarter perspective.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw Hobbit View Post
    The arms are a bit long. Also, it might look better from a three-quarter perspective.
    id agree with the arm
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    Belladonis Campaign Setting 3.5
    Casting as a Skill

    Learn from your mistakes, 3.5...
    Fill in those dead levels...

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  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    'Kay, I'll start a new one.
    Spoiler
    Show
    This is the thief who likes to hoard,
    That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
    That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
    That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
    That has the gender unexplored
    That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
    That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
    That follows the cleric,
    That serves the lich,
    That seeks the gate,
    That guards the snarl,
    That lives in the prison the gods built.


    guess what I was gone but now I'm back

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Elf Bard View Post
    'Kay, I'll start a new one.
    Great! I anticipate eagerly.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Is the magic and hair and all that stiff fine?
    Spoiler
    Show
    This is the thief who likes to hoard,
    That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
    That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
    That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
    That has the gender unexplored
    That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
    That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
    That follows the cleric,
    That serves the lich,
    That seeks the gate,
    That guards the snarl,
    That lives in the prison the gods built.


    guess what I was gone but now I'm back

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Elf Bard View Post
    Is the magic and hair and all that stiff fine?
    The magic is great. The hair could be 25% shorter.

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Sounds good. I may remedy the book a little as well...
    Spoiler
    Show
    This is the thief who likes to hoard,
    That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
    That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
    That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
    That has the gender unexplored
    That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
    That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
    That follows the cleric,
    That serves the lich,
    That seeks the gate,
    That guards the snarl,
    That lives in the prison the gods built.


    guess what I was gone but now I'm back

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Elf Bard View Post
    Sounds good. I may remedy the book a little as well...
    Good idea.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    I thought fourth edition was alright, but I really would like a job. I am an avid artist working on learning photoshop. I will work for free. If you need any jobs, just put them on this thread to Gligarman2. I will post images on this forum, or if you have an alternative, that's fine. Could I please work with you? I really like your guts and ambition. Good luck!

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    YOU"RE STEALING MY WORK! *sneak attack*

    Naw, It's great to have another artist in the crew!

    Also CH I'm going for it on a frontal view on the wizard...
    Spoiler
    Show
    This is the thief who likes to hoard,
    That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
    That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
    That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
    That has the gender unexplored
    That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
    That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
    That follows the cleric,
    That serves the lich,
    That seeks the gate,
    That guards the snarl,
    That lives in the prison the gods built.


    guess what I was gone but now I'm back

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Thanks Bard! I am looking for a new style, and I will incorporate parts of your work. Your stuff is just as valid to me as Luke McKay's stuff or that guy who works with Linkara! Be proud.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

    Quote Originally Posted by Gligarman2 View Post
    I thought fourth edition was alright, but I really would like a job. I am an avid artist working on learning photoshop. I will work for free. If you need any jobs, just put them on this thread to Gligarman2. I will post images on this forum, or if you have an alternative, that's fine. Could I please work with you? I really like your guts and ambition. Good luck!
    Sir, I wish I had ten more like you! Let's see some work, soldier!


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