Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn

[Giegue]

Yeah. Glad to see we have more artists on this. I would offer some of my art up, but I don't feel my style fits the game at all since I tend to draw in a somewhat simplified anime style, and I don't really see my heavily manga/anime-ish style fitting a normal fantasy RPG.

Either way glad to see we have more devoted artists on the project.

[Gligarman2]

Sir, I wish I had ten more like you! Let's see some work, soldier!

What do you need, sir? Happy to work on an indie RPG!

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

What do you need, sir? Happy to work on an indie RPG!

Well, here is a list of the iconic characters, and their appearances:

• A male nephillim Wizard (Enchantment school) in his forties with fair features and greying hair who looks sleep-deprived. He is part fae. Check out the art of Changeling: the Lost for inspiration.
• A female dwarf Fighter (Guardian style) wearing heavy armour and wielding a warhammer and shield. Remember that the dwarves of Magic Sword look different.
• A female ravenfolk Cleric (Death domain) wielding a sickle in one hand and wearing an hourglass around her neck. She is wearing robes.
• A make halfling Rogue wearing gypsy garb, holding a knife in one hand and a hand-crossbow in the other. He should look agile and well-muscled.
• A male human Marshal (Aggressive Commander command style) clad in furs, wearing a necklace of fangs, and hefting a greatsword. He should have a sort of Norse look about him.
• A male elf Occultist (Fae pact) with paper-white skin, shoulder-length black hair, and orange eyes. He is holding a scimitar in one hand, and casting a spell with the other. The magical energy is the same orange as his eyes.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I apologise for my absence. I am back, and working on the game. You will see that the System section has been updated.

In fact, if you open up the doc in the near future, you will probably see me actively working on it.

[Dark Elf Bard]

I'm taking a break from the wizard, and starting the halfling gypsy. Gligarman2, you're welcome to takea crack at the wizard if you want to.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I would like everyone to draw a version of each iconic (although they can certainly take their time), and then I can choose which I like best.

_/ _/ _/

Also, crazy idea: we should vote on the game's official band. And then we can all listen to that band while working on it, to all get in the same headspace.

I vote Motorhead.

Votes:
Motorhead 1
No Official Band 1

[Gligarman2]

I vote any.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I just made flanking easier to achieve. Now, instead of having to be on opposite sides of the target, you need simply to both be adjacent to it, but not to each-other.

[Surrealistik]

I just made flanking easier to achieve. Now, instead of having to be on opposite sides of the target, you need simply to both be adjacent to it, but not to each-other.

I like it.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I like it.

My idea was to further encourage team-based strategy, so that working with one's companions is more important than ever.

Also, many attack powers will now have a cool extra effect when made witch combat advantage.

[Dark Elf Bard]

What? Have you forgotten my lovely race in the class list? Are drow so easily forgotten?

Also, for bands I vote for Ozzie Osbourne- specifically, Crazy Train. Seriously, listen to that and imagine a montage of assassins, warriors, gladiators, wizards, and barbarians. Really.

Try it and tell me what you think.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

What? Have you forgotten my lovely race in the class list? Are drow so easily forgotten?

Tragically, the grumpy old Wizards consider the drow as they are currently portrayed to be product identity. We could include some kind of weird modified version, but that that point, why not just make another race?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

My idea for death and dying rules:

When you fail a death saving throw, you lose a Rush (the equivalent of a Healing Surge). If you have no Rushes, you die.

My goal to to better represent the fact that the character is bleeding out. If they are brought back to positive hit points, they are still weakened from blood loss.

What do you think?

[Dark Elf Bard]

Perfect!


As a lowly artist, I would like to offer this as a 4e player:


Perfect!

But can you spend them as you die?

And are you unconscious as you die?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Perfect!


As a lowly artist, I would like to offer this as a 4e player:


Perfect!

But can you spend them as you die?

And are you unconscious as you die?

You are unconscious as you die. While dying, you cannot use Second Wind, but you can be healed.

Also, bare in mind that characters now have about 6 Rushes, unlike in original 4e, where they had 8 or 9.

[Dark Elf Bard]

Do the Rushes heal for more, or are they just supposed to be forced to be more careful in combat?

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Do the Rushes heal for more, or are they just supposed to be forced to be more careful in combat?

Rushes heal the same amount. The heroes now have a more limited supply in order to add a greater sense of danger.

[Dark Elf Bard]

That sounds good.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Now that the game is shaping up, we should talk about how it will be presented. I would very much like the essentials to come in a single oversized volume, roughly 400 pages long.

It would contain an explanation of roleplaying, setting information, character creation instructions, game rules, Game Mastering advice, monsters, and one or two sample delves.

Does that sound good?

[Surrealistik]

I'm going to be honest, I don't think you should touch surges/HP at all. You should just have monster damage scale properly.

In 4e they get +1 to damage per level.

Meanwhile PC HP scales anywhere from +4 to +7 per level.

The problem is obvious; so is the solution.

Increase monster damage output to +4-5 per level beyond the first.


That said, I don't mind your dying idea at all, though I'm a little concerned about its potential to slow games down and burden them with PCs seeking out Extended Rests due to 'surge' loss via death saves.

[Gligarman2]

Hi, CannibalHobbit, it's me, Gligarman2, that artist. I noticed you wrote that you wanted to give halflings a "Gypsy-feel." Please change that to a more accurate term describing what you have in your head. It is completely impossible to draw a halfling for you without clarification.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Meanwhile PC HP scales anywhere from +4 to +7 per level.

The problem is obvious; so is the solution.

Increase monster damage output to +4-5 per level beyond the first.

This works, but only provided each monster survives for only a single attack or two. Otherwise, at 1 attack, a monster has already eaten through a PC's level bonus health (due to bonus damage equaling/matching PC health bonuses), and all extra damage just kill them faster than before. With more monsters, this becomes a dying spiral.

Perhaps 1-4 bonus damage, depending on role: tougher monsters who will live for more rounds get less extra damage, while squishy monsters may get +4 or +5 per level. This has the added bonus of being more incentive to prioritize high-damage targets, as they are more and more dangerous as you level.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Hi, CannibalHobbit, it's me, Gligarman2, that artist. I noticed you wrote that you wanted to give halflings a "Gypsy-feel." Please change that to a more accurate term describing what you have in your head. It is completely impossible to draw a halfling for you without clarification.

I mean that halflings are nomads who have tatoos, tell fortunes, tavel around in caravans, have piercings, wear cloth, and have black hair and brown skin. Many also throw knives.

[Surrealistik]

This works, but only provided each monster survives for only a single attack or two. Otherwise, at 1 attack, a monster has already eaten through a PC's level bonus health (due to bonus damage equaling/matching PC health bonuses), and all extra damage just kill them faster than before. With more monsters, this becomes a dying spiral.

Perhaps 1-4 bonus damage, depending on role: tougher monsters who will live for more rounds get less extra damage, while squishy monsters may get +4 or +5 per level. This has the added bonus of being more incentive to prioritize high-damage targets, as they are more and more dangerous as you level.

I'm not sure how lethal Chainsaw wants to get; whether he simply wants to maintain L1 deadliness (all other things being equal) or have monsters get _more_ damaging as levels increase, but I erred on the side of lethality.

Artillery and Lurkers, the lower HP classes already have built in incentives in that they're more accurate and chiefly ranged (Artillery) or deal lots of spike damage and are hittable roughly half the time (Lurkers) as design conventions. Perhaps we could stand to further formalize monster design and roles though.

If roughly maintaining L1 deadliness is the objective, assuming your average standard monster versus your average party lasts 3-4 hits, I'd increase the damage increment per level to +2 up from +1. Otherwise +3-5 is better.

I personally like +4 to account for all the additional synergies, healing powers, and other tricks PCs will gain access to as they level up, or perhaps we could do it by tier:

Heroic (levels 1-10): +3 damage per level.
Paragon (levels 11-20): +4 damage per level.
Epic (levels 21+): +5 damage per level.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Heroic (levels 1-10): +3 damage per level.
Paragon (levels 11-20): +4 damage per level.
Epic (levels 21+): +5 damage per level.

I like this. One of my goals is to add a greater sense of danger to the game, especially at higher levels, so that victory is that much more thrilling.

Hi, CannibalHobbit

Not my name.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Someone else started making a Fourth Edition clone, and then had a fit and gave up. The thread is still full of interesting discussion, though, and worth checking out.

Chronoplasm, the man behind the other attempt, has much talent, despite not being well-suited to leading the project. I wouldn't mind having him on the team. Based on what he said, I think he might enjoy Magic Sword.

Does anyone know about other attempts at cloning Fourth Edition? I would much like to see them.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

The entire document has been re-formatted and re-written. Definitely worth skimming.

[Surrealistik]

Started on the Rogue.

Decided to go the route of 'Specializations', which will strongly influence how the rogue is played.

All of them have Sneak Attack in common however, as well as a broad diversity of skills:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...6mkvRXzY/edit#

[Gligarman2]

I like this. One of my goals is to add a greater sense of danger to the game, especially at higher levels, so that victory is that much more thrilling.


Not my name.

So Sorry. Slip of the tongue.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

So Sorry. Slip of the tongue.

Its fine. I overreacted. Don't worry about it.