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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Well, Sollux could be evidence for your case, but I thought bubble-selves were contained, and couldn't get out into the real world. If they could, we could have a LOT of Aradias and Daves out there...
    But the kids and trolls aren't bubble selves, they're actually there in the bubble. The meteor entered the bubble and that's where they are. The kids and trolls aren't dreaming like Dirk is, or dead like Aranea or Meenah. They're just there. Once the meteor moves on past the bubble, they won't be there anymore. They could probably go to sleep and find that one, but it wouldn't be the same.
    Thanks to Ceika for the avatar.

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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by maximus25 View Post
    But the kids and trolls aren't bubble selves, they're actually there in the bubble. The meteor entered the bubble and that's where they are. The kids and trolls aren't dreaming like Dirk is, or dead like Aranea or Meenah. They're just there. Once the meteor moves on past the bubble, they won't be there anymore. They could probably go to sleep and find that one, but it wouldn't be the same.
    Then I misunderstood something. I got the impression when the asteroid passed through a bubble, everyone fell asleep. If they're actually there, then it is possible.
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  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Then I misunderstood something. I got the impression when the asteroid passed through a bubble, everyone fell asleep. If they're actually there, then it is possible.
    Yeah, they're actually there. It's how the Mayor got healed by Doomed Timeline God-Tier Feferi.

    Man, can you imagine what must have gone wrong in that timeline for it to fail with God Tier Eridan and Feferi?
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  4. - Top - End - #334
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Maybe they aren't from the same timeline? They are from seperate doomed timelines and met up in the dream bubbles.
    Thanks to Ceika for the avatar.

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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Man, can you imagine what must have gone wrong in that timeline for it to fail with God Tier Eridan and Feferi?
    First part answers the second.

    God ERIDAN.

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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Steam ID: Sir_Dwar_Of_Ebberon

  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Hussie has gotten good at sillyfaces.

    Also, am I the only one who wants to see Dirk go into Fanboyspasms once he realizes who Dave is? Dave grew up with Bro, and so he'll just be like "Woah, it's my Bro, but tiny". Dirk lives his life in a shrine dedicated to a long dead media personality.

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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Then I misunderstood something. I got the impression when the asteroid passed through a bubble, everyone fell asleep. If they're actually there, then it is possible.
    Since when were you under this impression?
    cookies for reference :p

  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by irenicObserver View Post
    Since when were you under this impression?
    cookies for reference :p
    Well, I'm a little confused otherwise. How can a single physical body (without time shenanigans) be both on the meteor and wherever this dream bubble is taking place? If the meteor is moving (and they don't have Sollux to pick up the pace again), how are they not left behind?

    How exactly does Terezi lose track of where she was (and honestly think she was back in the past) if she's not asleep? Where are the others, if the meteor truly was just sitting there outside of Terezi's tree? Then she was led to the meeting via the same kind of branch path that Jake was.

    Also, John and Jake are explicitly asleep when they meet Meena.

    Aranea offered to heal Terezi during an event that certainly had the trappings of a dream, just like Feferi healed the Mayor.

    The physical reality of it all (the meteor being static, albeit still shaking, in the dream bubble, with Terezi travelling a long, long way away from it) just doesn't track if they are physically there, and previous instances of dream bubbles are explicitly visited by sleeping people lacking a dream self. How does that work if Terezi is not asleep? Is the dream bubble suddenly moving in sync with the meteor, and behaving like a Star Trek holodeck, where movement is an illusion created by the background moving instead of you?

    Of course, if the meteor left without them, that could create an interesting chain of events. Gamzee could have made the Cherubs in a lab already, then the inhabitants get lost in dream bubbles, leaving a seemingly uninhabited meteor careening through space towards Post-scratch Skaia. Just because there is no reckoning doesn't mean there are no defense portals, so the meteor gets thrown to some point in time on Post-scratch Earth, where ultimately Cal and Umbrage are found living on the meteor.

    Bleach
    Last edited by Calemyr; 2012-06-29 at 02:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by M'aiq the Liar
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  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Calemyr View Post
    Well, I'm a little confused otherwise. How can a single physical body (without time shenanigans) be both on the meteor and wherever this dream bubble is taking place? If the meteor is moving (and they don't have Sollux to pick up the pace again), how are they not left behind?

    How exactly does Terezi lose track of where she was (and honestly think she was back in the past) if she's not asleep? Where are the others, if the meteor truly was just sitting there outside of Terezi's tree? Then she was led to the meeting via the same kind of branch path that Jake was.

    Also, John and Jake are explicitly asleep when they meet Meena.

    Aranea offered to heal Terezi during an event that certainly had the trappings of a dream, just like Feferi healed the Mayor.

    The physical reality of it all (the meteor being static, albeit still shaking, in the dream bubble, with Terezi travelling a long, long way away from it) just doesn't track if they are physically there, and previous instances of dream bubbles are explicitly visited by sleeping people lacking a dream self. How does that work if Terezi is not asleep? Is the dream bubble suddenly moving in sync with the meteor, and behaving like a Star Trek holodeck, where movement is an illusion created by the background moving instead of you?

    Of course, if the meteor left without them, that could create an interesting chain of events. Gamzee could have made the Cherubs in a lab already, then the inhabitants get lost in dream bubbles, leaving a seemingly uninhabited meteor careening through space towards Post-scratch Skaia. Just because there is no reckoning doesn't mean there are no defense portals, so the meteor gets thrown to some point in time on Post-scratch Earth, where ultimately Cal and Umbrage are found living on the meteor.

    Bleach
    The dream bubble is massive. They are on the meteor, which is moving through the dream bubble with them. I guess yeah, it's just the illusion of movement that makes them seem like they're far away from the meteor.

    When Jake or John went unconscious, they dreamed in their own dream bubble. Aranea drew John into the central one when she visited him. This created an overlap, two dream bubbles merging into each other. This also happened with John, but he was drawn in my Roxy's weird void powers. Thus, this is a super mega dream bubble that the meteor is moving through was born. They're all on the meteor, but to them it seems like they're on the pink moon because Aranea and Meenah are memorying it up.

    It's weird dream shenanigans, it doesn't really make sense, but in its own way it does make sense.
    Thanks to Ceika for the avatar.

  11. - Top - End - #341
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Man, can you imagine what must have gone wrong in that timeline for it to fail with God Tier Eridan and Feferi?
    The fact that Eridan didn't end up alone and hated by everyone is exactly why that timeline failed. He had to be irredeemably awful and shunned by everyone until he snaps and goes on a rampage.

    It's kinda like that timeline with Godtier Karkat hanging out with Nepeta. If things turn out right for the trolls, and they get to grow up to be better persons and live happily with their close friends or lovers, then clearly the timeline is wrong.

    Remember that the right timeline is the one engineered by Doc Scratch to bring about Lord English in the Alternian universe. It actually explains a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  12. - Top - End - #342
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    The fact that Eridan didn't end up alone and hated by everyone is exactly why that timeline failed. He had to be irredeemably awful and shunned by everyone until he snaps and goes on a rampage.

    It's kinda like that timeline with Godtier Karkat hanging out with Nepeta. If things turn out right for the trolls, and they get to grow up to be better persons and live happily with their close friends or lovers, then clearly the timeline is wrong.

    Remember that the right timeline is the one engineered by Doc Scratch to bring about Lord English in the Alternian universe. It actually explains a lot.
    The question though is *how* did that Timeline fail? While I respect that LE is engineering the Alpha Timeline, everyone in the Dream Bubble from doomed Timelines had to die to get into the bubble. What sort of Just or Heroic deaths could Godtier Eridan and Feferi have gone through in that timeline?

    I'm tempted to think the two died fighting each other. Since Eridan was God Tier he was too powerful for anyone except another God Tier to stop so he killed everyone in the Showdown (including Vriska, because could she really stop a Prince of Hope?). In the end, after Feferi revived from the earlier surprise attack, she returned for vengeance.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    The question though is *how* did that Timeline fail? While I respect that LE is engineering the Alpha Timeline, everyone in the Dream Bubble from doomed Timelines had to die to get into the bubble. What sort of Just or Heroic deaths could Godtier Eridan and Feferi have gone through in that timeline?
    That was actually one of the first timelines. Unfortunately, it meant that there were no Aradiabots present to stop the Black King's horrible psychic shockwave. Eridan and all of the other trolls except for Feferi died against the King; as it was a death fighting for the sake of the universe, it was Heroic of Eridan. Feferi died shortly afterwards, for the same reason.

    Conveniently, this can explain how the vast majority of the troll timelines failed. That Vast Glub was a real killer.
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  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    Remember that the right timeline is the one engineered by Doc Scratch to bring about Lord English in the Alternian universe. It actually explains a lot.
    Incorrect. The right timeline is simply the one that is supposed to happen, simple as that. There is no one engineering it or determining it, it is plain and simple fate. This must happen, because that allows this to occor. if it does not happen, then it is wrong.

    People like doc scratch are simply aware of what must and must not happen, and perform their actions when acceptable to ensure that the timeline does not branch off again whenever possible.
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  15. - Top - End - #345
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    There is no one engineering it or determining it, it is plain and simple fate.
    That's a very reductionist view of it. By the same token, it is fate that they are engineering and determining situations. Especially when they are omniscient people with powers over both space (as First Guardian) and time (with Sburbian tech like Trollian).

    And furtherremore, there's more than one way to do anything. That was specifically said by Vriska a long way back. She decided to make it so that she would be responsible for Jack Noir coming into their world, because she was a narcissist and if they couldn't win, then she wanted that the reason why would be about her. It was implied then that if she hadn't done so, Jack would have come anyway; but then it wouldn't have been because of her.

    The characters do have some wiggle room in the massive predestination paradox soup that is Homestuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Though i hope that IS broken later on.

    If they win/ loose "because god said so" then its just very depressing and sort of lessens the impact of everything.

    But I get that otherwise Time Travel would be a nightmare to deal with.

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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    i have a feeling that while traveling on the metior and across the yellow yard, the kids and trolls are kind of "outside" the "this must happen or you all are screwed" rulebook. What happens there happens, and that's it. While inside a game session or universe though, you need to be more careful.


    edit: On seccond though... inside universe is probably free of the rules too for the most part. Sure big things like sburb still need to happen, but minor choices wont mess up the entire timeline. it's probabably just stuff that happens within the game itself that needs to be thought about.
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2012-06-29 at 02:32 PM.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    i have a feeling that while traveling on the metior and across the yellow yard, the kids and trolls are kind of "outside" the "this must happen or you all are screwed" rulebook. What happens there happens, and that's it. While inside a game session or universe though, you need to be more careful.


    edit: On seccond though... inside universe is probably free of the rules too for the most part. Sure big things like sburb still need to happen, but minor choices wont mess up the entire timeline. it's probabably just stuff that happens within the game itself that needs to be thought about.
    Not quite: it's the stuff, that completes all the timeloops and other causality issues, that has to happen in a specific way. If there is a paradox, it becomes a doomed timeline.
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  19. - Top - End - #349
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    Not quite: it's the stuff, that completes all the timeloops and other causality issues, that has to happen in a specific way. If there is a paradox that furthers the propagation of existance, it becomes a doomed timeline.
    Fixed. Prime example; Dave-sprite.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    I want to give the mayor a hug now.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Apparently someone had a crush on Sleeping beauty :P
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    Apparently someone had a crush on Sleeping beauty :P
    Wouldn't it be has, given that the lightning bug is still on her? Which is why Mayor WV is thinking about roxy you know.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by memnarch View Post
    Wouldn't it be has, given that the lightning bug is still on her? Which is why Mayor WV is thinking about roxy you know.
    ooohhh.... welp. So much for Roxy finally having a guy who likes her

    ...maybe.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    I Wanna Be the Guy Kid avatar by Ceika. Many thanks.

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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    JANE! ROXY! NOOOOO!!!
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Final_Stand View Post
    Now seems like as good a time as any for me to reread Homestuck for the first time.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Me too, I barely understood the tangled plot that was the yester-arcs.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Guys....


    previous to finding this i heard a rumour that they would skip over everything that began before late act 4.


    If you excuse me im... im gunna go cry now.


    i hope its not true
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2012-07-03 at 10:53 PM.
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    Guys....


    previous to finding this i heard a rumour that they would skip over everything that began before late act 4.


    If you excuse me im... im gunna go cry now.


    i hope its not true
    Well, if you check out the 4kids wikipedia article for yourself, you'll find that the word "homestuck" doesn't appear in it at all. There's also no citations for it.

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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Derjuin View Post
    Well, if you check out the 4kids wikipedia article for yourself, you'll find that the word "homestuck" doesn't appear in it at all. There's also no citations for it.
    Also, since 4kids went bankrupt over a year ago, the chances of them making any TV shows are rather slim.
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