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  1. - Top - End - #1411
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Im just talking about the utterly pointless destruction of the earth. It actively harming the story by making the main characters look like unfeeling male chickens.

    If the story was ABOUT saving the earth then I can feel invested. Otherwise its just some more flash.

  2. - Top - End - #1412
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Im just talking about the utterly pointless destruction of the earth. It actively harming the story by making the main characters look like unfeeling male chickens.

    If the story was ABOUT saving the earth then I can feel invested. Otherwise its just some more flash.
    I can't help but feel like you're expecting the wrong things from homestuck. I'd recommend that you relax a bit and just enjoy the ride.
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  3. - Top - End - #1413
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Im just talking about the utterly pointless destruction of the earth. It actively harming the story by making the main characters look like unfeeling male chickens.

    If the story was ABOUT saving the earth then I can feel invested. Otherwise its just some more flash.
    I guess it's the 'No risk, no gain' line. Universe has to sacrifice existing species to create a new universe and you get the bonus that the players are not attached to their previous home. meh.

  4. - Top - End - #1414
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Im just talking about the utterly pointless destruction of the earth. It actively harming the story by making the main characters look like unfeeling male chickens.

    If the story was ABOUT saving the earth then I can feel invested. Otherwise its just some more flash.
    Honestly I think it'd probably be better if the players ever worked towards a goal that had weight to it.

    They're trying to finish the game ...because.

    Seriously I can't see any real reason they'd want to actually make a universe from their perspective. As far as they actually care it seems to me just hanging around their session is probably ok. They don't want to make a new world so much as they're moving towards doing it like lemmings.

    There's no motivation that's engaging or endearing. They're just kinda playing for the sake of it. They aren't just not reacting to losing a world, they aren't anticipating gaining one. They're just ...existing.

    I mean really. What do John or Dave or Rose or Jade of Kanaya or Calliope or whoever actually expect to GAIN from completing the game. What did they hope to gain? We don't know, because characterization in homestuck is incredibly lackluster.
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  5. - Top - End - #1415
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayngfet View Post
    Honestly I think it'd probably be better if the players ever worked towards a goal that had weight to it.
    Pretty much. Saving dah world is just a common classic. In addition it lessens their alien quality.

    Or even just have the kids go into the game alone. So they miss their caretakers, but no creepy 5 minute reaction to their deaths.

  6. - Top - End - #1416
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    To be absolutely fair it seesm that the game withholds the fact that they are creating a universe from them for some time. it's not exactly the first thing we learned about the game.


    Heck i thought the point of the game was to suck up members of a species, train them to be better, then dump them on a new planet with other members of their species who had survived the trials of the game in order to start a new society.

    They don't CARE about creating a new universe because they don't KNOW about it! At least Jane and co don't, Jade and Dave seemed invested in creating a gensis frog all things considering.
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2012-12-07 at 07:04 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #1417
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    I don't think 4 16 year olds could recreate a proper society.

    That just made their reactions even more crazy.

    They just heard that all they knew was gone and they just continued dilly dallying.
    Last edited by Scowling Dragon; 2012-12-07 at 07:11 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #1418
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    I don't think 4 16 year olds could recreate a proper society.
    Wich would be where the training from the game itself would have come in yes.

    i was wrong anyways, not sure what point your trying to make here.
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  9. - Top - End - #1419
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Yeah, being clear, when they first go into the game, they don't even know what the point is, so, the aim is to find out what the point is. This isn't really unusual in a game; FF7 takes until you leave Midgar before you find out what your real aim for the game is, and even then there's a bunch of facts still to be revealed, as an example.

    Which also makes John's reaction (at first) anyway reasonable enough, he doesn't know anyone else is dead. To the best of his knowledge, they're not and he's in this whacky adventure. Ditto Rose, although lesso Dave. Jade also doesn't know earth is destroyed, although they do know its in trouble.
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    The irony comes in when we use "Orcs are a metaphor for human savagery" to rationalize human savagery.

  10. - Top - End - #1420
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Im saying that the destruction of the earth and universe was pointless and just makes the kids look like crazy nutters.

    And it was indeed one of the first things John found out was the destruction of the world.
    Last edited by Scowling Dragon; 2012-12-07 at 07:16 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #1421
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    To be absolutely fair it seesm that the game withholds the fact that they are creating a universe from them for some time. it's not exactly the first thing we learned about the game.


    Heck i thought the point of the game was to suck up members of a species, train them to be better, then dump them on a new planet with other members of their species who had survived the trials of the game in order to start a new society.

    They don't CARE about creating a new universe because they don't KNOW about it! At least Jane and co don't, Jade and Dave seemed invested in creating a gensis frog all things considering.
    Which doesn't change the fact that they don't care about any kind of end goal. They're just playing because the plot wants them to play at this point, and that's pretty much how they've always been about it.
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    That pretty much sums up the Jayngfet experience.
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  12. - Top - End - #1422
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Mr. Dragon, we understand you don't like homestuck and think it is very dumb. Could we move to a slightly different topic...?

    I heard there was an update, but the site seems to be down for me. Anyone else finding this problem?

  13. - Top - End - #1423
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    So what are you going to say instead. 90% of the other posts are just "Gee I sure like this new update" (Not that there is anything wrong with that). And its unfair to just dismiss my arguments like that.

    And yes Im having the issue too.

  14. - Top - End - #1424
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    No, I'm just saying that your problems with this webcomic have been aired many atime, and I would like to try not to retread old ground. I'm not dismissing your concerns, I'm acknowledging them, but I don't feel the same way as you, and was hoping we could move on.

    Dang, I wanted to see what Caliborn had to say after his spirit journey with Gamzee.

  15. - Top - End - #1425
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    And I am not retreading old ground. Each one of my complaints is new and related to a different topic in the comic.

    And move onto what? Not that Im going to go on about this forever, but what crucial topic does my conversation interrupt?

  16. - Top - End - #1426
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    You seem to not like how Sburb works and how the kids act and how Hussie writes, in a nutshell. I dunno, seems like you follow trends to me.

    And no topic is being interrupted, i's just that I still feel your complaints have already been aired repeatedly, and I was pondering the possibility of discussing something else pertaining to the comic. Like, say, what do you guys think happened to fedorafreak?

  17. - Top - End - #1427
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Poor FedoraFreak, all he wanted was a classy hat. :(
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    Previous avatar courtesy of CoffeeIncluded - of Kurt, from the Toes in the Water Knee Deep Against the current Stormy Seas campaign.


    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    The irony comes in when we use "Orcs are a metaphor for human savagery" to rationalize human savagery.

  18. - Top - End - #1428
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    FedoraFreak is going to swoop in and save the day with his Gent of Piss powers. Calling it now.

  19. - Top - End - #1429
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    As someone else who has, while not annoyance regarding Scowling Dragon's issues, a sense of repetitiveness, you have very much expressed your issues with Hussie as an author.

    I prefer to overlook those issues, and find your discussions to be a discussion of things that I have already, in myself, resolved, and as such, somewhat tedious.

    Feel free to continue it in this thread, but, I want you to understand that it can also be in part an issue.
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  20. - Top - End - #1430
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    This made me giggle. This is so unnecessaraly convoluted (See the underlined bit)
    I love the unnecessarily convoluted manner of Homestuck. Probably stems from a "I know pointless minutia better than you"/system mastery attitude than any real narrative appreciation mind.
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  21. - Top - End - #1431
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    I don't think 4 16 year olds could recreate a proper society.

    That just made their reactions even more crazy.

    They just heard that all they knew was gone and they just continued dilly dallying.
    Rose hardly continued "dilly dallying", she started trying to destroy the freaking game and pretty much went completely off the deep end in every way, I have no idea how that constitutes dilly dallying. Yes, she states that it's because she thinks it's impossible to win, but I find it hard to believe that the whole end of the whole scenario wasn't a massive contributor to that. Sure she looked like a crazy nutter, but then the game pretty much drove her into becoming an actual crazy nutter (Grimdark Rose was just her pushed over the edge, although the Horrorterrors' involvement with that was rather obscure)

    John is just really bad at realising the severity of things. He almost actually has to see something terrible has happened to believe it, sometimes. He can be rather optimistic but at the same time he is rather skeptical. I'm not even sure if it actually registered with him when Nanna told him Sburb would devastate Earth, partially because she mentioned it rather casually. John never really ever stopped to think about the consequences of the game. His blissful and almost somewhat intentional ignorance went on for most of the B1 session, and I doubt getting stabbed before he had time to react to discovering Bec Noir's tea party massacre helped us get a feel for what his true reaction would've been.

    Jade is a different case, I can't really remember how much she knew from her visions, however, since they helped her interact with the exiles, I'm guessing that Jade, unlike the other kids, knew that Sburb would wipe humanity out before she entered (how long for is anyone's guess unless I misssed it), and rather typically of her character, she took on this burden herself (the others probably wouldn't have believed her anyway). Jade's been through a lot, but she hates to show weakness, I mean, let's put it this way she staring to beat up Jadesprite because she showed weakness, but then, Jadesprite's her! Jadesprite is a Jade that has had time to contemplate everything that Sburb has put her through, and who got to hang out with friends, probably in dream bubbles, where she would have access to both her, her friends' and the troll's memories, Sburb was a part of her past. But Sburb had completely wrecked Jadesprite, Jade herself knew that she had to keep it together though, because the rest of her friends still needed. But Jade still experienced everything that Jadesprite experienced up until her death. Personally, I think deep down, Jade is hardly fine, but she'll keep going in the hope that they can overcome Sburb.

    As for Dave, it's hard to say. Dave is really stubborn about showing emotions, ok, good example here is Bro's death. He really was a mess when he found out, and he only revealed his true feelings and insecurities to Terezi, who incidentally, is the only character we've seen him do that with. He's not even that open with John or Rose (although it may have something to do with the fact that it was highly unlikely for him to ever meet Terezi in person at the time). It's particularly hard to gauge Dave's reaction though, it doesn't help that we never really saw his entry and early post-entry really. I dunno, I'm not a massive fan of Dave *dodges incoming bullets* I find him kind of difficult to talk about.

    I'm really too tired to having such an in-depth discussion right now, plus I think I was increasingly getting side-tracked the more I wrote. I would like to add that I strongly disagree that characterisation in Homestuck is poor, at least with regards to the Beta Kids. The only one I don't think is characterised that much is John, but hey, he's likable enough I guess.

    Plus there's always the fact that having to put up with 4 characters constantly brooding about the apocalyspe would either be really, really dull or just mind-numbingly depressing. And it wouldn't fit the overall theme of Homestuck, in Homestuck no matter how dire things get, there is always a glimmer of hope, and that tiny sliver of hope is usually what the story focuses on.

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  22. - Top - End - #1432
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Also... everyone handles grief differently. I wouldn't be too surprised if sburb players have a strong tendency towards emotional resiliency and grieving swiftly with regards to their lost guardians. As for the destruction of the earth... Actually wrapping your head around that is harder than it seems. Also, repression is a common coping mechanism.
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  23. - Top - End - #1433
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    that and I'm imagining that its less "lets go create a universe!" and more like "oh my god, we just survived, what do we do? we have no choice but to keep playing so that we can survive and find a new place that is safe."

    yea, I think they are less about creating a universe, and more about surviving long enough to figure out what to do for the rest of their lives.

    that and they don't really have any other option but to keep playing: can't go back in time to save the earth, because it would either only cause another time loop, or cause a doomed timeline where everyone dies. they can't really heal earth or anything, because there doesn't seem to be any way to get back to it once you go in.

    in short, once your in Sburb your railroaded into playing the game no matter what, because it pretty much closes off all other options.
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2012-12-07 at 10:53 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #1434
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    If you want, you can take Homestuck as a commentary of the disconnected and alienating nature of modern life. All the kids sit at home by themselves all day talking with people on the Internet, and then when their world ends, what does their life become? Walking around all day talking with people on the Internet. The same people, no less. For them, the rest of the world was already completely detached and, well, unreal. Now they actually get to be part of a cool RPG with the same people that made up their social lives anyway.

    Maybe in the Homestuck world, everyone is like that. Maybe Sburb specifically seeks out those kind of people. Or maybe it's just luck and Hussie didn't care to show us the thousands of other failed sessions where everyone broke down crying until they got killed by an imp or something.
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    Anarion's right on the money here.
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  25. - Top - End - #1435
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Now THIS does bug me. If it was any other comic this emotionless, alien, and even creepy characterization would be greatly criticized.

    Parts that are just NOT needed because they ruin the story are pointed out.

    The over bloated cast, the over-bloated story would turn people off.

    But because this is Homestuck, it gets a free pass.

    "They delt with grief offscreen" (Thats not actualy a GOOD thing ), "its a social commentary", "People (Especially kids) TOTALY act like this, especially years on end".

  26. - Top - End - #1436
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    I don't read Homestuck to have realism.

    I read Homestuck to marvel at the crazy stuff that runs through Hussie's mind; this is a universe with evil juggaloes, a man who made his fortune by making things that cost negative money, another man who fights using living stop motion animation...and so on.

    I like the characters, but I know they're not really realistic. It doesn't bother me, because that's not what I was looking for when I walked into it- and, I expect, most actual fans of the comic have a similar experience or feeling.

    That's why I find your arguments somewhat irritating- you come in and bring up points, which I'll admit are valid, but I honestly don't give half a @#$%.
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  27. - Top - End - #1437
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    And there is nothing wrong with that. Thats exactly why I read the comic too. I just wish it just left all semblance of seriousness at the door and stopped pretending to be anything other then a fun romp.

  28. - Top - End - #1438
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Sometimes people just don't give a $#!7 about stuff.

    Kinda happens.

    Nothing really wrong with that.
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  29. - Top - End - #1439
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Again. Nothing wrong with not caring. I have an issue when its excused or even lauded.

  30. - Top - End - #1440
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    Default Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12

    Sooo, according to www.isup.me, MSPA is not down just for me... but has anyone here been able to see the updates of the last few days, or are you just discussing the last update before that?
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