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    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Witch (3.5)

    Abilities: Strength, dexterity, and constitution are the most important as you will likely focus on melee. Wisdom sets the saves for your potions and a couple of other abilities, as does charisma. Intelligence helps with skills as usual.

    Organization: Though witches are usually loners, occasionally covens of witches will form to meet some goal. Still these covens often fall apart due to either the chaotic or selfish nature of the witches involved.

    Alignment: Witches may be of any alignment, though both the lawful and good alignments are incredibly rare. Witches tend towards chaos and evil, often subverting nature to their wiles.

    Religion: Witches don't often worship deities, instead worshiping nature itself. Those that do often worship chaotic deities.

    Background: Witches come from all walks of life and anyone can find themselves delving into witchcraft. Some are born with the gift (or curse) and others learn it through years of study. All of them, however, can tie the source of their power to some event or some trinket that awakened their power, which is often associated with the types of magic eventually learn.

    Races: Humans are by far the most common witches, though nobody really knows why. Elven witches aren't unheard of and are the most likely to lean towards good, while orc's make some of the most vile witches you will ever see.

    Other Classes: Not even good aligned witches get along with paladins and clerics, for they have been the subject of the stake too many times. They tend to get along with rogues, barbarians, and rangers though.

    Role: Witches can fight in melee, using their wildshape ability for a bit of extra muscle and their potions for some alchemical backup. They can also function as trackers and spies.

    Class Features

    Hit Die: d6

    Starting Gold: As Rogue

    Skills: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering, geography, history, and nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Skill Points: 4 + Int mod (x 4 at first level)

    {table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Wildshape Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Refx Save | Will Save | Special | Primary Circle | Secondary Circle | Magemark Invocations
    1st | +0 | +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Familiar, Witchcraft, Ancient Lore, Mage Mark | 2 (1) | 1 (1) | 1 (1)
    2nd | +1 | +1 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Wild Empathy| 3 (1) | 2 (1) | 1 (1)
    3rd | +1 | +2 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Woodland Stride | 3 (1) | 2 (1) | 2 (2)
    4th | +2 | +3 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Bonus Feat | 4 (2) | 2 (1) | 2 (2)
    5th | +2 | +3 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Wildshape | 4 (2) | 3 (2) | 2 (2)
    6th | +3 | +4 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Hex (2 targets) | 5 (3) | 3 (2) | 3 (3)
    7th | +3 | +5 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Purity | 5 (3) | 3 (2) | 3 (3)
    8th | +4 | +6/+1 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Bonus Feat | 6 (4) | 3 (2) | 3 (3)
    9th | +4 | +6/+1 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Improved Wildshape | 6 (4) | 4 (2) | 4 (4)
    10th | +5 | +7/+2 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Hex (3 targets) | 7 (4) | 4 (2) | 4 (4)
    11th | +5 | +8/+3 | +7 | +3 | +7 | A Thousand Faces | 7 (4) | 4 (2) | 4 (4)
    12th | +6/+1 | +9/+4| +8 | +4 | +8 | Bonus Feat | 8 (5) | 5 (3) | 5 (5)
    13th | +6/+1 | +9/+4 | +8 | +4 | +8 | Swarmshape | 8 (5) | 5 (3) | 5 (5)
    14th | +7/+2 | +10/+5 | +9 | +4 | +9 | Hex (4 targets) | 9 (5) | 5 (3) | 5 (5)
    15th | +7/+2 | +11/+6/+1 | +9 | +5 | +9 | Alien Mind | 9 (5) | 5 (3) | 6 (6)
    16th | +8/+3 | +12/+7/+2 | +10 | +5 | +10 | Bonus Feat | 10 (6) | 6 (3) | 6 (6)
    17th | +8/+3 | +12/+7/+2 | +10 | +5 | +10 | Improved Wildshape | 10 (6) | 6 (3) | 6 (6)
    18th | +9/+4 | +13/+8/+3 | +11 | +6 | +11 | Hex (5 targets) | 11 (6) | 6 (3) | 6 (6)
    19th | +9/+4 | +14/+9/+4 | +11 | +6 | +11 | Timeless | 11 (6) | 7 (4) | 6 (6)
    20th | +10/+5 | +15/+10/+5 | +12 | +6 | +12 | Transcendence | 12 (6) | 7 (4) | 6 (6)
    [/table]

    Weapons and Armor Proficiencies: The witch is proficient with simple weapons and light armor, but not with shields.

    Class Abilities
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    Familiar
    The witch gains a familiar who assists her in her craft. A familiar is an unusually intelligent magical beast who takes the appearance of a regular animal. The witch may choose any animal whose HD does not exceed 1 die and who's size is small or tiny.
    Should the witch's familiar die she may sacrifice herbs and incense equal to 100gp per witch level in a 4 hour ceremony to ressurect it. The witch's familiar never receives a negative level or reduced constitution from being resurrected.
    The witch's familiar does not gain experience, but gains the alertness and improved evasion feats for free, as well as a bonus to its intelligence score and a deflection bonus to its AC equal to half the witch's level. Her familiar gains a bonus to its base hit points equal to twice the witch's level, and is counted as having a number of HD equal to the witch's level for the purpose of interactions though it never actually rolls new HD or gains any other benefits from these hit die.
    The witch and her familiar also gain certain benefits at certain levels as their bond increases:
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    {table=head] Level | Boon
    1 | Telepathic Link
    9 | Shared Craft
    17 | Sensory Duality
    [/table]

    Lv1 > Telepathic Link (Su):
    The witch and the familiar have a telepathic link. They are able to communicate through this link at will, as long as they are on the same plane. This bond is deep and so may not be suppressed by antimagic or similar antimagic effects.
    Furthermore, the witch may access the full range of her familiar's sensory capabilities. She may choose which, if any, of her familiar's senses she wishes to experience. While using her familiar's senses, she loses the use of her own corresponding senses.
    A witch who chooses to experience all of her familiar's senses will feel as if she is in her familiar's body (though control of the body still belongs to the familiar).
    *much credit goes to nonsi, as the second half of this ability is ripped straight from his codex

    Lv9 >Shared Craft:
    At any time, as long as the witch and her familiar's telepathic link is still functioning, the familiar may cast any one of the witch's spells from her second circle. Other than originating from the familiar and not having any spell components, it functions as if the witch had cast it herself.
    The familiar may not cast a spell on the same round the witch casts a spell from her second circle or uses an invocation. Further the familiar loses this capability while the witch is in a wildshape form.
    Once the familiar has cast a spell in this way it must 1 round before doing so again.

    Lv17 >Sensory Duality (Su):
    The witch and her familiar gain the ability to process massive amounts of sensory information. From now on, both may access each other's senses while retaining their own. It is very common, at this point in the witch and her familiar's sensory development, for the pair to remain in full sensory and telepathic contact at all times.
    As long as either is aware of the other senses and not flat-footed or unaware, neither is the partner.
    *much credit goes to nonsi, as everything but the last paragraph of this ability is ripped straight from his codex


    Witchcraft
    The magic of witchcraft consists of 3 circles of magic; white, black, and natural. At her first level the witch must choose which circle to specialize in, her primary circle, and her secondary circle. She does not gain access to the third.
    Each circle has access to certain spells. The white circle grants spells from the cleric list, but not spells of the necromancy school. The black circle grants access to the assassin spell list, any spells of the necromancy school, any spells with the shadow descriptor, and mysteries (which are cast as spells). The natural circle grants access to the druid spell list.
    Regardless of spell list they are all considered arcane spells and she may never choose a spell that has an experience point cost. The number inside paranthesis, for each circle, is the maximum spell level for that circle.

    Primary Circle
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    The witch may not actually cast the spells from her primary circle. Instead she may brew potions and make other conconctions such as oils and powers with them. This functions as the brew potions feat, except as noted here.
    At each indicated level the witch gains a new spell(s) for this purpose from her chosen list for this circle, up to her maximum spell level (see paranthesis). The save for any of these mixtures is a DC of 10 + 1/2 her witch levels + her wisdom modifier.
    Unlike normal the witch may use spells that don't target one or more creature, though spells with a target of self may never target anyone other than the drinker. Other than self-targeting spells, the witch may choose to have any potion function as a splash weapon (which is indeed the only way potions that don't target as normal can function). If she does so the spell is used as a splash weapon, like alchemists fire, and has a maximum area of 10ft and the range is as normal for a splash weapon. Spells with secondary targets, such as chain lightning, that strike a non-valid target may still branch their secondary effects to other valid targets.
    Certain spells, such as summoning spells and other spells that don't or can't have targets or areas, are still not able to be used in this manner.
    Any product created in this way is non-magical in nature, have no xp cost, and have no gold cost. They have a nasty composition and so separate after a time. As such they have little, if any, sale value and become inert when she next makes new potions in this manner. Though the witch may normally only brew one potion each day, as normal, see the benefits of having a familiar.
    As long as the witch's familiar is present and conscious during the creation of a potion, she can brew potions and oils faster than one a day. After having at least 6 hours of rest the witch may spend an hour to prepare her potions for the day. She may prepare any number of potions whose combined spell level doesn't exceed her twice witch level.

    Secondary Circle
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    The witch also gains a handful of weaker spells. Unlike her primary circle, the witch actually casts the spells of her secondary circle.
    At each indicated level the witch gains a new spell(s) for from her chosen list for this circle, up to her maximum spell level (see paranthesis). The save DC for any of these spells is 10 + 1/2 her witch levels + her charisma modifier.
    The witch does not need material components for these spells, but all of her spells have somatic components. Spells may or may not have vocal components as detailed in their descriptions as normal.
    The witch may cast any number of these spells each day, as long as the combined total of spell levels cast each day does not exceed twice her witch level. First level spells count as second level spells for purposes of counting towards this tally. She regains her 'spells' after 6 hours of rest.


    Ancient Lore
    The witch may craft alchemical items that requires a spell(s), without actually knowing the spell(s), as long as she meets the caster level needed to craft that item. Further any alchemical item crafted by the witch is non-magical in nature and any save DCs have a bonus equal to 1/4 her witch level.
    Furthermore, the witch gains a +2 bonus to all handle animal, craft (alchemy), and survival checks.

    Mage Mark
    The witch is forever marked by a tattoo somewhere on her body, that identifies her as a witch. A DC 15 knowledge (religion or history) check identifies this mark as what it is, though clerics automatically succeed on this check.
    The mage mark does, however, provide some benefits to the witch. She may select a new invocation at each indicated level, up to her maximum effective spell level (see parenthesis), that does not modify an eldritch blast. The save DC for any of these invocations is 10 + 1/2 her witch levels + her charisma modifier; but they are otherwise used as a warlock. The witch may select any invocation from any list, it needn't be the warlock's.
    A witch who does not prominently display this tattoo, or a replica that is just as prominent, may not use her invocations and takes a -4 penalty to all charisma related skill checks.

    Lv2 > Wild Empathy:
    The witch gains the Wild Empathy class ability, as the druid's class ability of the exact same name.

    Lv3 > Woodland Stride (Ex):
    The witch may move through any sort of undergrowth, such as briars, thorns, overgrown areas, and similar terrain, at her normal speed without suffering from damage or impairment. This does not prevent the effects of magical terrain.
    Furthermore the witch never leaves tracks in natural surroundings, making it impossible to track, unless she decides otherwise.

    Lv4, 8, 12, 16 > Bonus Feat:
    At each indicated level the witch gains a new feat that she qualifies for. It must be one of the following types of feats: a hex feat, a voodoo feat, a spell reserve feat, a spell touched feat, an item creation feat, a metamagic feat, or any feat of the spell focus tree.

    Lv5 > Wildshape (Su):
    The witch gains the shapechanger subytype. The wildshape ability functions as the polymorph spell does, except as noted below. While her wildshape ability is active her base attack bonus improves to that listed in her wildshape attack bonus column.
    As a swift action the witch may form into a new creature or revert back to human form. This action does no provokes attacks of opportunity.
    The witch may take the form of any animal (including dire) or vermin who's HD did not exceed one less than her levels in classes providing the wildshape feature, and half from those not, even if it exceeds the maximum of polymorph, though the witch retains her own HD. Further she may not take a size larger than medium (though the maximum size she may take increases by one category per 5 levels beyond 5th).
    The witch does not regain hit points for ending or resuming a form, however. She gains the special qualities and abilities of the creature in question, instead of just the abilities.
    The witch loses the ability to speak, to cast spells, and to invoke invocations while in animal form. Natural spell does not allow her to cast spells while in animal form.

    Lv6+ > Hex (Sp):
    The witch may, as a 60ft ranged spell-like ability, target an opponent she knows the location of. This takes a standard action. Her target is subject to the Bestow Curse spell (allowed a save as normal, but this save is based off the witch's witchcraft DC). The witch may not have more targets than listed afflicted and is always aware if her targets are still afflicted or not. She may release any target to allow herself to affect a new target with this ability.

    Lv7 > Purity:
    The witch gains a +4 bonus to saves against the abilities of animals (including magical beasts) and fey. Further she gains immunity to both diseases and poison of all kinds, except for those that are magic in nature. The witch's familiar also benefits from this ability.

    Lv9, 17 > Improved Wildshape:
    While in wildshape the witch gains the evasion ability, a +4 bonus to natural AC, and a +2 to strength or dexterity (her choice).
    Starting at level 17 the witch gains improved evasion during wildshape, the bonus to AC increases to +6, and the bonus to dexterity or strength is now +4.

    Lv11 > A Thousand Faces (Sp):
    The witch gains the A Thousand Faces class ability, as the druid's class ability of the exact same name.

    Lv13 > Swarmshape:
    When using wildshape the witch may form into swarms of creatures, instead of singular creatures. See Swarms, as described in the MM. She is still limited by the normal restrictions.

    Lv15 > Alien Mind (Ex):
    The witch's contact with nature has warped her mind. She becomes completely immune to charm and compulsion effects. The witch's familiar also benefits from this ability.

    Lv19 > Timeless:
    The witch ceases to age and regresses to a more youthful look if she wishes. Further, she loses all penalties of aging no longer gains benefits from aging, losing any benefits she had. The witch is also immune to magical aging.

    Lv20 > Transcendence:
    Eventually the witch reaches the peak of her power. Her type changes to fey, though she retains her own statistics, and she gains a +4 bonus to her charisma and wisdom scores.


    Design Notes:
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    So we all know how broken the druid is *cough* *cough* tier 0 *cough* Anyways this is my attempt at fixing that problem. I'm really hoping I got this to tier 3 as I hoped, but am concerned I may have nerfed it clear down to tier 4 instead. So I definitely think this is a solid tier 3 now, though now I'm worrying about how powerful the hex feats are. The fact that to get any number of uses out of them that you get no other feats should help, but still.
    I think the circles and the choice between what types of magic and how you use it is a definite improvement over forcing people into playing an earthy witch. The necromancers need their cake too.
    I think simply not having a companion is perhaps the biggest improvement over the druid, though at will wildshape (and some unique abilities) certainly helps. I think limiting wildshape to uses was clunky (why not rounds if they had to limit it at all).
    Then again the druid as an archetype always seemed a bit odd, and out of place, to me. I actually can't think of a single major character in literature who was a 'druid' and not a witch, medicine man, or fey.


    ACFs
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    Wild Heart
    Loses: Wildshape, Improved Wildshape, Swarmshape, and Familiar.
    Gains: Animal Companion
    The witch gains an animal companion as the druid. The witch may opt to resurrect her old companion, at no level or constitution loss, instead of replacing it when it does, but with the same ceremony as for the familiar. As long as she has her animal companion conscious and nearby she gains the brewing benefits as if she had a familiar.
    She does, however, lose her wildshape ability and her actual familiar.

    Feral Duo
    Loses: Witchcraft
    Gains: Animal Companion
    The witch gains an animal companion as the druid. The witch may opt to resurrect her old companion, at no level or constitution loss, instead of replacing it when it does, but with the same ceremony as for the familiar.
    She does, however, lose her witchcraft ability entirely.


    Feats
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    Feats labeled as [Hex] feats are only available to a witch who has the hex class ability. Hex feats may only be used a combined number of times each day equal to the number of hex feats the witch has + 1. Hex feats are always spell-like or supernatural in nature.
    Feats labeled as [Voodoo] also have limited uses. With the exception of the primary 'Voodoo Doll' feat, which may be used indefinitely, each voodoo feat may be used a number of times each day equal to the number of voodoo feats you possess + 1.

    Scry [Hex]
    You may see any afflicted target of your hex ability as if though with the Scrying spell. Your target is not allowed a will save, but spell resistance applies as normal for this part of the effect. Regardless your target is always aware someone is scrying them, though they may not know who is watching them.

    Nightmare [Hex]
    Requirements: At least 1 other hex feat.
    After activating this ability, a standard action, your target has nightmares the next time they rest. They must succeed on a will save that night or not gain any benefits of rest for that sleep and the next 24 hours, taking a -2 penalty to saves against fear effects for that time.

    Voodoo Spell [Hex]
    Requirements: At least 1 other hex feat and 3rd level spells from your primary circle.
    You may cast a spell spell from your secondary circle, of 1st level, against your target. This spell has no range limitations and spontaneously comes to being near on your target, but may not cross planar boundaries.

    Smite True Believer [Hex]
    Activating this ability is swift action and its benefits last for 1 minute. If the target of your attack(s) is cleric, paladin, or other character who has access to divine spells or abilities, you may add a bonus to attack and damage rolls against them for the duration. This bonus is equal to the number of hex feats you possess, to a maximum of your charisma modifier, and does not apply to magical attacks or the use of items.

    Turn/Rebuke Undead [Hex]
    Requirements: At least 6 levels of witch, charisma of 14 or higher.
    If your target is undead, you may turn or rebuke them (your choice at each use) as if you were a cleric of your witch level - 4. You gain a bonus to this attempt equal to half the number of hex feats you possess, to a maximum of your charisma modifier. You may affect multiple targets within range with one use, as long as they are all afflicted with your hex.
    Special: You qualify for and may take feats and prestige classes with turn/rebuke undead as a class feature. Prestige classes may progress this feature as well, but you never gain additional uses by virtue of feats or other abilities (as this is determined by your number of hex feats).

    Omen [Hex]
    You may end the effects of your hex to force your target to automatically fail a single die roll, effectively rolling a 1 if failure isn't an option. This is an immediate action.

    Interrupt [Hex]
    Requirements: At least 1 other hex feat.
    You may force a target, as an immediate action, who is concentrating on an action to make a concentration check to maintain that effect. Your target takes a penalty to this check equal to half the number of hex feats you possess.

    Dire Hex [Hex]
    Requirements: At least 3 other hex feats.
    By ending your hex you may double its penalties for a round. Abstract effects such as halving movement, instead negate movement. DM arbitration may be needed for this effect.

    Reviled by Nature [Hex]
    Requirements: At least 2 other hex feats.
    You may end the effects of your normal hex to instead initiate this way, as a swift action.
    The target takes a -4 penalty to all charisma based checks with fey, elves, and animals. Furthermore animals, other than a companion(s) loyal to them, will attack them if they or the animal approach within 30ft.

    Guided Touch
    Requirements: Witchcraft class ability
    When making an attack roll (ranged or melee) with a spell or splash/grenade-like weapon, you gain a +2 bonus to your attack roll. Further if you miss with such a weapon, not spell, you may roll for the new space twice, taking whichever one is more beneficial to you.
    If you have at least 10 levels of witch this bonus increases to +4.

    Spell Harrier
    Requirements: Interrupt feat and at least 2 other, different, hex feats.
    Instead of a one time activation the target must make a concentration check any time the attempt one of the previously listed actions, within a 1 minute time span.

    Improved Voodoo Spell
    Requirements: Voodoo Spell feat and 4th level spells from your primary circle.
    When using your voodoo hex feat you may now use a 2nd level spell instead of a 1st level spell. Doing so however is taxing, and may only be done once per day, no matter how many times you can use voodoo spell in a day.

    Extra Invocation
    Requirements: Mage Mark class ability
    You may gain a single extra invocation of any list. This invocation must be of an effective spell level lower than the highest level invocation you already possess.
    Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, granting a new invocation each time.

    Extra Hex Target
    Requirements: Hex class ability
    When using your hex ability you may designate one additional target beyond normal.

    Improved Witchcraft
    Requirements: Witchcraft class ability
    You gain a single extra spell, no higher than your maximum spell level, for use with your witchcraft ability. You must choose which circle to apply this feat to. The spell you choose must meet all restrictions present for that circle.
    Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, granting a new spell each time.

    Grand Witchcraft
    Requirements: At least 18 levels of witch
    You gain a spell of 7th level for your primary circle and a spell of 5th level for your secondary circle. Your maximum spell level for each circle is increased by 1 to accommodate this.
    Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, but each time beyond the first you must choose either an additional 7th level spell for your first circle or a 5th level spell for your second circle. Additional instances of this feat do not increase your maximum spell level further.

    Epic Witchcraft [Epic]
    Requirements: Must have taken Grand Witchcraft at least 3 times
    You gain a spell of 8th level for your primary circle and a spell of 6th level for your secondary circle. Your maximum spell level for each circle is increased by 1 to accommodate this.
    Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, but each time beyond the first you must choose either an additional 8th level spell for your first circle or a 6th level spell for your second circle. Additional instances of this feat do not increase your maximum spell level further.

    Spell of the Third Circle
    Requirements: Witchcraft class ability
    You may select a single spell, of any spell level lower than your maximum for your second circle, from the witchcraft circle that you did not select. You may cast this spell as part of your second circle.
    Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, granting a new spell each time.

    Healing Touch
    Requirements: Access to the natural or white circle as the primary circle, only available at first level.
    Whenever you heal (as the skill) a target you may choose to heal your target of hit points damage. You may heal a maximum number of hit points each day equal to twice your witch level in this way.
    You add your wisdom modifier, to a maximum of the amount already being healed, to the amount you heal. This does not count towards your daily limit.

    Greater Healing Touch
    Requirements: Healing Touch and Witch level 5 or higher.
    Whenever you heal (as the skill) a target you may, in addition the effects of healing touch, heal your target of a single condition that the panacea spell is capable of healing. You must heal at least 10 hit points for this effect to take place.

    Nature's Beauty
    Requirements: Access to the natural circle as the primary circle, only available at first level.
    You may add your charisma modifier as a deflection bonus to your AC and as a bonus to a single save of your choice. This bonus is capped to half your witch level, rounded up. Furthermore you gain a +4 bonus to all charisma related skill checks against members who would be attracted to you (usually members of the opposite sex and same or similar race).

    Bane of Undead
    Requirements: Access to the white circle as the primary circle, only available at first level.
    You may score critical hits and deal precision damage to undead. Furthermore you gain a +1d6 sneak attack that only functions against undead. Non-intelligent undead that you reduce to 0 hit points may not raise as undead again.

    Withering Touch
    Requirements: Access to the black circle as the primary circle.
    As a standard action melee touch attack or 10ft ranged touch attack you may unleash a mass of negative energy into your opponent.
    You may deal no more damage (or heal undead) than your witch level in single attack and may not deal more than twice your witch level in damage per day.
    You add your charisma modifier to the amount of damage you deal each time, to a maximum of that already being dealt. This does not count towards your daily limit.

    Voodoo Doll [Voodoo]
    Requires: Improved Voodoo Spell feat
    With 2 hours of work you may craft a voodoo doll. As a move action you may apply some blood, maybe from a weapon, or other bodily material from another creature. Once this has happened your doll is attuned to that creature.
    A doll may not be attuned to more than one creature, nor may you attune more than one doll at a time. It takes only a swift action to un-attune a doll, but this destroys it in the process.
    You may attack, cast a spell, or use an item through an attuned voodoo doll that you have created, affecting the attuned target as if you had instead targeted them.
    A target attacked through the doll, including through derivative feats, is considered flat-footed. Furthermore, because you didn't directly attack the attuned target, any such effect counts the voodoo doll as the originator, not yourself.

    Battle Doll
    Requires: Voodoo Doll feat
    You learn to quickly make voodoo dolls in the midst of combat, out of odd and end materials that you find. Making a doll now only takes a standard action.

    Forced Movement [Voodoo]
    Requires: Voodoo Doll feat
    You may, as a standard action, jerk the voodoo doll you are holding. Your attuned target must make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your wisdom modifier).
    Upon a failed save the target is thrown up to 30ft in a direction of your choosing. A target who collides with an object that can't be destroyed by this collision stops moving, taking damage for collision as if they had fallen and dealing half this damage to anything or anyone they collide with.

    Pins and Needles [Voodoo]
    Requires: Voodoo Doll feat
    You stab a need into your voodoo doll as a swift action to use this ability. Your target must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your wisdom modifier - the number of pins and needles effect) or be afflicted by one of the following effects of your choice (assuming they have the body part in question):
    Leg
    Target loses use of any leg of your choice. Target is treated as always being in difficult terrain, though freedom of movement and similar effects do nothing to alleviate this. A target with no legs left can't do anything more than crawl. May be used multiple times, targeting a different limb each time.

    Arm
    Target loses the use of any arm of your choice. May be used multiple times, targeting a different limb each time.

    Head
    Target can't perform any action that requires concentration without succeeding on a concentration check.

    Torso
    Target is unable to make attacks of opportunity.

    Neck
    Target is unable to breath. The target gains a +4 circumstance bonus to the save against this effect.
    Any of these effects remain in place until the afflicted is targeted by a panacea spell or a spell that can remove curses. These effects also end after the target next rests for at least 4 hours. Any of these effects end if the doll is destroyed.

    Puppeteer [Voodoo]
    Requires: Forced Movement feat
    As a swift action you may take control of your target, as if with the suggestion spell. A will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your wisdom modifier) is allowed to negate.
    The duration for this effect is indefinite, as long as the doll remains intact, and you may command your target to perform any action, even if it would be suicidal or contrary in nature, without provoking a save or resistance. Your target is, however, allowed a new save at the end of each round, except for the first, to escape.

    Obliterate [Voodoo]
    Requires: Pins and Needles, Puppeteer, & Blood Magic feats
    You may, as a full round action, completely obliterate the voodoo doll you are holding. Your attuned target must immediately make a fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your wisdom modifier) or die. Targets immune to death effects instead take 10d6 + the your HD in untyped damage. Targets killed by this ability explode in a shower of gore.

    Blood Magic [Voodoo]
    Requires: 3 other voodoo feats
    You may cast spells without expending your witchcraft spell uses. Each time you do so, your maximum hit points decrease an amount equal to the spell's level + 5.
    You may not regain these hit points normally, but instead recover 2 points per hour of rest beyond the first. This is in addition to the normal benefits of rest.

    Master of Dark Power
    Requires: At least 2 hex feats and at least 1 voodoo feat
    You may combine your uses of hex and voodoo feats, sharing them between both types of feats.
    Special: You may take this feat additional times, gaining 2 extra uses of your voodoo and hex feats per time taken.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2013-08-21 at 09:10 PM.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    I like the concept...not quite sure on the power level though. It has features of a level that would certainly qualify it as Tier 3, but the restrictions and weaknesses seem to prevent them from really working together as well as they would on similar classes.

    Wild Shape is generally considered a Tier 3 feature on its own merits, but the witch chassis is substantially worse than that of a druid or wild shape ranger. The ranger has a full BAB to back it up. The druid has buffs. Both have more combat-capable pets (although in the ranger's case, if only just) and better hit points and saves.

    Sixth level spells, likewise, are a good hallmark of Tier 3, but the process of only being able to put them into potions, and the starkly limited number of spells known, make the witch, in my opinion, a weaker caster than even the ranger. You're basically looking at the worst features of both a prepared caster and a spontaneous caster, with a sharply curtailed spells known and spells/day selection and painfully slow recovery. The witch also can't get much use out of some of the really strong areas of the druid spell list - battlefield control and summons.

    The invocations and other features provide some defense and utility (and, I notice, a fairly nice selection of immunities). And the hex can be useful against single foes and probably goes nicely with the invocations...so I'm not sure. In actual play, it may all come together. My instinct is that it's closer to Tier 4 than Tier 3, but if I'm underestimating the invocations, hex, or wild shape at all, it might land solidly in Tier 3 territory.

    I would, however, get rid of the 2d4+1 days potion duration. The spells-as-potions is going to require enough bookkeeping as it is, I think adding the random factor would just be a hassle. The transcendence is also a bit weird in that it boosts Charisma, which the class doesn't seem to use aside from Wild Empathy (and maybe invocations?)
    A role playing game is three things. It is an interactive story, a game of chance, and a process in critical thinking.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    The 2d4 + 1 days thing was supposed to limit people from having infinite potions (you know because of the no xp cost thing). But if it really is tier 4 then that might not be necessary. What if I did something like potions per day (it still keeps the witchy feeling and limits larger area spells, but I can remove gold costs and the random day limit)?

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Yeah, a non-randomized per day was what I meant.

    The other way you could do it, is to say the potions expire after one day, but the witch can use magic to preserve a limited number of them indefinitely. This keeps the player from basically having to keep brewing the same potion over and over because they haven't used it yet.
    A role playing game is three things. It is an interactive story, a game of chance, and a process in critical thinking.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Shamless self-plug: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...php?p=9176244#

    Use it for parts if you like.
    "To play a fighter is to play the game.
    To play a wizard is to understand the rules.
    To understand the rules, and play a fighter, is to understand the game."
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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Alright Quellian,

    Sorry I should have clarified when I said potions per day. I understood what you meant, but was thinking more along the lines of an actual spells per day chart like spellcasting classes and not a flat total.

    I have changed potion limits (see familiar) and set up potions to expire when new potions are created. So as long as no new potions are made the old ones don't expire. They also no longer have gold cost (effectively becoming her spells for the day).

    Thanks Jarrick, I'll take a look and see if I can cannibalize anything.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2012-06-02 at 01:51 AM. Reason: bump / combine posts

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    The class has had a complete rehaul from before. The witch now has access to her magic through circles and no longer has the nature's caress ability.

    Though the class has as many spells per day as a bard, it doesn't have as many spells and not all of them can be cast as spells. The invocations haven't really changed beyond having their own column on the chart they make up for that. I think it ends up about the same. Alongside that the witch still has all of the neat abilities - immunities, the hex ability, and wildshape - that it did before. Hopefully it falls more squarely into tier 3 now.

    You can see the original witch, before the changes, here:
    Spoiler
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    Class Features

    Hit Die: d6

    Starting Gold: As Rogue

    Skills: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering, geography, history, and nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Use Rope (Dex).

    Skill Points: 4 + Int mod (x 4 at first level)

    {table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special | Witchcraft | Max Spell Level
    1st | +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Familiar, Witchcraft, Wilderness Lore, Mage Mark | 2 |1
    2nd | +1 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Wild Empathy| 3 |1
    3rd | +2 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Woodland Stride | 3 |2
    4th | +3 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Nature's Caress (Health) | 4 |2
    5th | +3 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Wildshape | 4 |2
    6th | +4 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Hex 2/ targets | 5 |3
    7th | +5 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Purity | 5 |3
    8th | +6/+1 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Nature's Caress (Fast Healing) | 6 |3
    9th | +6/+1 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Improved Wildshape | 6 |4
    10th | +7/+2 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Hex 3/ targets | 7 |4
    11th | +8/+3 | +7 | +3 | +7 | A Thousand Faces | 7 |4
    12th | +9/+4| +8 | +4 | +8 | Nature's Caress (Recovery) | 8 |5
    13th | +9/+4 | +8 | +4 | +8 | Swarmshape | 8 |5
    14th | +10/+5 | +9 | +4 | +9 | Hex 4/ targets | 9 |5
    15th | +11/+6/+1 | +9 | +5 | +9 | Alien Mind | 9 |6
    16th | +12/+7/+2 | +10 | +5 | 10 | Nature's Caress (Improved) | 10 |6
    17th | +12/+7/+2 | +10 | +5 | +10 | Improved Wildshape | 10 |6
    18th | +13/+8/+3 | +11 | +6 | +11 | Hex 5 / targets | 11 |6
    19th | +14/+9/+4 | +11 | +6 | +11 | Timeless | 11 |6
    20th | +15/+10/+5 | +12 | +6 | +12 | Transcendence, Nature's Caress (Resurrection) | 12 |6
    [/table]

    Weapons and Armor Proficiencies: The witch is proficient with simple weapons and light armor, but not with shields.

    Class Abilities
    Spoiler
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    Familiar
    The witch gains a familiar who assists her in her craft. A familiar is an unusually intelligent magical beast who takes the appearence of a regular animal. The witch may choose any animal whose HD does not exceed 1 die and who's size is small or tiny.
    Should the witch's familiar die she may sacrifice herbs and incense equal to 100gp per witch level in a 4 hour ceremony to ressurect it. The witch's familiar never recieves a negative level or reduced constitution from being ressurected. The witch's familiar does not gain experience, but gains the alertness and improved evasion feats for free, as well as a bonus to its intelligence score and a natural armor bonus to it AC equal to half the witch's witch level.
    As long as the witch's familiar is present and conscious during the creation of a potion, she may brew potions and oils faster than a day. For each hour of work the witch may brew any number of potions whose combined level don't exceed 2 + 1 per 4 witch levels (the witch may craft a potion(s) that exceeds this total, as her work carries over to the next hour if she doesn't finish). First level spells count as 2nd level spells for this purpose.

    Witchcraft
    The witch may craft alchemical items, though she can't actually cast her spells. She is also a master of herbal concoctions and so may craft potions and oils as if she had the Brew Potion Feat.
    Unlike the normal feat the witch may use spells that don't specify one or more targets. Such un-ordinary potions with an area are instead used as grenade-like weapons, similar to alchemist's fire, and have a maximum area of 10ft. Such un-ordinary potions without an area are instead applied directly, requiring a touch attack against unwilling targets, but may still have size limitations (such as with wood shape).
    At each indicated level (see witchcraft) the witch gains a new spell(s), drawn from the druid list, of a level no higher than her max spell level, for this very purpose. The witch may not actually cast these spells, but may use them to craft potions and oils, and may not spend more than 8 hours each day (the standard time to craft a single potion) brewing. The save DC for any potion/oil is equal to 10 + 1/2 her witch level + her wisdom modifier.
    Any item created in this way is completely non-magical in nature, even though the creation process is, and does not cost experience points or gold to create. These products have a nasty composition and so separate after a time. As such they have little, if any, sale value and become inert when she next brews new potions. Though the witch may normally only brew one potion each day, see the benefits of having a familiar.
    Keep in mind that these may not always be potions, but may be powders, seeds, or other strange materials (though this is only really for fluff reasons and has no mechanical effects).

    Wilderness Lore
    The witch gains a +2 bonus to all handle animal, craft (alchemy), and survival checks.

    Mage Mark
    The witch is forever marked by a tattoo somewhere on her body that identifies her as a witch. A witch who does not prominently display this mark or that does not display a duplication of this mark somewhere on her person just as prominently takes penalties for doing so. Until she displays the mark the witch receives a negative level and takes a -4 to all her ability ability scores. She does not receive this negative level if it would reduce her level below 1.
    The mark does, however, provide some benefits. At each level the witch gains access to a new spell level she may select a single invocation, of an effective spell level no higher than her max spell level, that has no xp cost and a casting time normally no longer than a full round. The witch uses these invocations as a warlock does (though she has access to all invocations, not just the warlocks), but may not choose invocations that modify eldritch blasts.

    Lv2 > Wild Empathy:
    The witch gains the Wild Empathy class ability, as the druid's class ability of the exact same name.

    Lv3 > Woodland Stride:
    The witch may move through any sort of undergrowth, such as briars, thorns, overgrown areas, and similar terrain, at her normal speed without suffering from damage or impairment. This does not prevent the effects of magical terrain.
    Furthermore the witch never leaves tracks in natural surroundings, making it impossible to track, unless she decides otherwise.

    Lv4, 8, 12, 16, 20 > Nature's Caress (Su):
    As a move action, that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, the witch may heal herself of hit point damage. She may heal herself of up to twice her witch level in hit points each day. The witch may split this up among multiple uses.
    Beginning at level 8, as long as the witch is within natural terrain she gains fast healing at a rate of 1 per round.
    Starting at level 12 the witch may, instead or alongside of healing herself, cure herself of one or more of the following effects: blindness, deafness, fear, entangled, exhausted, fatigued, nauseated, or sickened. Doing so expends 10 points of this ability per condition.
    At 16th level the witch's pool of hit points increases to 4 times her level, though she may not heal more than twice her level in a single aciton.
    At 20th level the witch reaches her pinnacle with her connection to nature. If she dies and the lies, mostly intact, within some sort of natural surrounding for more than 10 round she automatically resurrects as if the true resurrection spell were cast.

    Lv5 > Wildshape (Su):
    The witch gains the shapechanger subytpe. The wildshape ability functions as the polymorph spell, except as noted below.
    As a swift action the witch may form into a new creature or revert back to human form. This action does no provokes attacks of opportunity.
    The witch may take the form of any animal (including dire) or vermin who's HD did not exceed one less than her own even if it exceeds the maximum of polymorph, though the witch retains her own HD. The witch does not regain hit points for ending or resuming a form, however. She gains the special qualities and abilities of the creature in question, instead of just the abilities.
    The witch loses the ability to speak and to cast spells while in animal form. Natural spell does not allow her to cast spells while in animal form.

    Lv6+ > Hex (Sp):
    The witch may, as a 60ft ranged spell-like ability, target an opponent she knows the location of. This takes a standard action. Her target is subject to the Bestow Curse spell (allowed a save as normal, but this save is based off the witch's witchcraft DC). The witch may not have more targets than listed afflicted and is always aware if her targets are still afflicted or not. She may release any target to allow herself to affect a new target with this ability.

    Lv7 > Purity:
    The witch gains a +4 bonus to saves against the abilities of animals (including magical beasts) and fey. Further she gains immunity to both diseases and poison of all kinds, except for those that are magic in nature.

    Lv9, 17 > Improved Wildshape:
    While in wildshape the witch gains the evasion ability, a +4 bonus to natural AC, and a +2 to strength or dexterity (her choice).
    Starting at level 17 the witch gains improved evasion during wildshape, the bonus to AC increases to +6, and the bonus to dexterity or strength is now +4.

    Lv11 > A Thousand Faces:
    The witch gains the A Thousand Faces class ability, as the druid's class ability of the exact same name.

    Lv13 > Swarmshape:
    When using wildshape the witch may form into swarms of creatures, instead of singular creatures. This may be an actual Swarm, as described in the MM, or multiple creatures. She is still limited by the normal restrictions (for example, the creatures making up the swarm may not have an HD total exceeding the maximum).
    In addition her hit points are split between the swarm members. Reforming may be done at anytime, with any number of members, but each member to be reformed must be within 30ft of one another. The witch retains any damage or effects the members of the swarm had and loses hit points for any member not returned. Members not returned during reformation are 'dispelled.'

    Lv15 > Alien Mind:
    The witch's contact with nature has warped her mind. She becomes completely immune to charm and compulsion effects.

    Lv9 > Timeless:
    The witch ceases to age and regresses to a more youthful look if she wishes. Further, she loses all penalties of aging no longer gains benefits from aging, losing any benefits she had. The witch is also immune to magical aging.

    Lv20 > Transcendence:
    Eventually the witch reaches the peak of her power. Her type changes to fey, though she retains her own statistics, and she gains a +4 bonus to her charisma and wisdom scores.


    Design Notes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    So we all know how broken the druid is *cough* *cough* tier 0 *cough* Anyways this is my attempt at fixing that problem. I'm really hoping I got this to tier 3 as I hoped, but am concerned I may have nerfed it clear down to tier 4 instead.


    ACFs
    Spoiler
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    Wild Heart
    Loses: Wildshape, Improved Wildshape, Swarmshape, and Familiar.
    Gains: Animal Companion
    The witch gains an animal companion as the druid. The witch may opt to resurrect her old companion, at no level or constitution loss, instead of replacing it when it does, but with the same ceremony. As long as she has her animal companion conscious and nearby she gains the brewing benefits as if she had a familiar.
    She does, however, lose her wildshape ability and her actual familiar. Also she doesn't gain access to her next level of spells, each time, for an additional two levels, and her max spell level caps at 5 instead of 6.

    Warden of Gaia
    Loses: Wildshape, Improved Wildshape, Swarmshape, and Brew Potions
    Gains: Spellcasting
    The witch may cast her spells normally, though the save is set the same as her potion/oil DCs. She has limited spells per day as a bard of two levels higher than her witch level, gaining an additional use of each spell level per day at her 19th and 20th levels. She does, however, lose her wildshape ability and her ability to brew her spells as potions.


    Feats
    Spoiler
    Show
    Feats labeled as [Hex] feats are only available to a witch who has the hex class ability. Hex feats may only be used a combined number of times each day equal to the number of hex feats the witch has + 1.

    Scry [Hex]
    You may see any afflicted target of your hex ability as if though with the Scrying spell. Your target is not allowed a will save, but spell resistance applies as normal for this part of the effect.

    Nightmare [Hex]
    After activating this ability, a standard action, your target has nightmares the next time they rest. They must succeed on a will save that night or not gain any benefits of rest for that sleep and the next 24 hours, taking a -2 penalty to saves against fear effects for that time.

    ??? [Hex]
    ???

    ??? [Hex]
    ???

    ??? [Hex]
    ???

    Extra Invocation
    Requirements: Mage Mark class ability
    You may gain a single extra invocation of any list you have access to. This invocation must be of an effective spell level lower than the highest level invocation you already possess.
    Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, granting a new invocation each time.

    Improved Witchcraft
    Requirements: Witchcraft class ability
    You gain a single extra spell, no higher than your maximum spell level, from the druid spell list for use with your Witchcraft ability.
    Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, granting a new spell each time.

    Clutch of the Dread Lord
    Requirements: Witchcraft class ability and access to 2nd level spells
    You gain a single extra spell, up to one lower than your maximum spell level, for use with your Witchcraft ability. Instead of drawing from the druid spell list, you may select a single necromancy school spell of your choice.
    Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, granting a new spell each time.

    Meditative Alchemy
    Requirements: Witchcraft class ability
    For every 2 hours of brewing potions the witch is treated as if she had received an hour of sleep.

    Improved Meditative Alchemy
    Requirements: Meditative Alchemy feat
    For every hour of brewing potions the witch is treated as if she had received an hour of sleep.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2012-06-02 at 01:56 AM.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    My friend, this is one remarkable homebrew.
    It practically envelopes all folklore Witches into one nice gift wrap.
    In terms of theme, you couldn't do better.
    I also like the fact that this class always has something to do and is never "shooting blanks".

    Had it had a bit more kick, it would be tier-3, but it's indeed rather weak (and it doesn't even have UMD for partial compensation).

    I'd advise the following changes:
    1. Remove the penalties when Mage Mark is not exposed. Being denied your invocations is harsh enough. This has no fluff-wise value and is unfair crunch-wise.
    2. Make primary circle spells available for casting. This will make the Witch count for something as a spellcaster. Also, don't forget that at the higher levels, the action economy is a killer. By then, one really wouln't wanna manage themselves with potions.
    3. I'd even go as far as giving the Witch bonus feats at levels 4/8/12/16, selectable from your proposed feats, since this class is not the best at anything.

    These proposed changes will not push your Witch beyong tier-3 and you'll have yourself one epic homebrew.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Thanks for the praise, nonsi. It had occurred to me that all witches usually had two types of magic and that they always had wildshape in the stories (plus choices!). And yeah the shooting blanks issue has always been a problem I've had with spellcasters. I'm fine with growing weaker because of badly managed resources, but I should never be useless.

    But yeah I guess I went overboard with the magemark penalties. I just wanted to make sure that it made people want to display it, instead of vice versa. Fixed that.

    Bonus feats have been added with lots of choices, including my hex feats and one of my personal favorites (reserve feats).

    I'm still not sure a I want to allow primary casting as actual casting. It's not so much power I'm worried about as the flavor. I just like the general witchy feeling of brewing. Besides that though they I can't justify non-magical spells, which, as it is here, leaves them something to do when magic fails.

    Also the white white circle no longer allows necromancy spells. I had briefly forgotten that granting the cleric list did that and that just doesn't work.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2012-06-02 at 10:05 AM.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    I'd definitely say you hit a solid Tier 3 at this stage. I don't think I read Swarmshape fully the first time through, since I missed that it let you become multiple creatures (I was thinking it just let you become a swarm). While I wouldn't say such an ability is overpowered on its own merits, I can see some possibility to exploit it, either for protection by keeping one swarm member out of combat so you always have a few hit points left, or for action economy abuse. I'm not certain it would be a problem, but it's something to think about.

    The only possible issue I notice with the Hex feats is Omen, since it can force an auto-fail on a saving throw. Even that isn't really a huge problem, though, since they need to fail a save to get hexed anyway.

    I think giving up Wild Shape is probably a sufficient detriment for getting an animal companion. Slowing down spell progression as well makes it, in my opinion, a strictly inferior option.

    I'd also say that counting first level spells as second for spells/day isn't necessary.

    Anyway, I think those are the only other suggestions I have. Good job on the class!
    A role playing game is three things. It is an interactive story, a game of chance, and a process in critical thinking.

    If brevity is the soul of wit, I'm witty like a vampire!

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    "First level spells count as second level spells for purposes of counting towards this tally."
    What this basically means is that you're forcing neglect of 1st level spells quite rapidly, because they will not be worth while resource-wise.
    I see no motivation for this constraint, but just out of curiosity, what brought that on?

    Coming back to the primary circle...
    If a character can brew - they'll brew. Granting spells will not prevent that, especially since the brews are non-magical, meaning they get to function in A-M, which is a huge bonus. If you only get that by brewing, then brewing's gonna be a part of any witch well into the epic stages.

    As for your balance worries - there shouldn't be any.
    I could find absolutely no "Nuke" in your Witch's arsenal, so it's never gonna make tier-2.

    As for the feats you've presented... putting everything together, I can honestly say that this is the 1st homebrew class that rivals my Warrior in the character-build customization department.
    One thing I would change though. Spell of the Third Circle shouldn't be limited to a single daily use. If one puts a feat to it - granted there are more spells to this class than feats and that selecting other feats from your list offers so much - such a toll merits that the spell should just be added to the witch's repertoire.

    One thing I did notice to be missing. Voodoo Doll.
    Since you've been doing such a magnificent job so far, I'll leave it entirely in your capable hands.
    Another thing I don't see, is a set of viable feats for good witches. For instance, a good witch riding a unicorn familiar could be nice and thematically sound.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Another thought that came to mind.
    In folklore, witches are almost if not always physically incapable of decent martial combat in human form.
    Although it's unorthodox (but hey, homebrewing isn't exactly about being orthodox), except for the Animal Companion Witch, it seems very appropriate to me that a witch in human(oid) form should have poor BAB and only while Wild-Shaped does she gain med-BAB.

    Just a thought, but it's more than thematically sound and it will encourage players to work with their heads more than with the dice.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    A Voodoo Doll. Yes.

    Even if this was Tier 4 I'd still play it if only it could include a Voodoo Doll. That'd be the pushing awesome factor.

    I quite like this class. And if I'm to play a more Divine-Nature witch in a lower power setting I'd go for this if I was feeling like being more fluffy, less punchy, then my own Witch. My Witch couldn't easily fit into low power games.
    This however would be the only class Tier three or less I'd consider playing outside of Gestalt.
    Last edited by Cipher Stars; 2012-06-02 at 04:08 PM.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    2 spells to inspire you that I used for my Witch class (turn them into feats/ACFs/whatever..... I'll leave it up to you):

    ================================================== =========

    Massmorph Transmutation
    . . . . . ("You are all pigs!")
    Level: Witch 6
    Targets: 1 creature / level, no two of which can be more than 30ft apart.
    This spell polymorphs multiple creatures at once.
    The targets must all be transformed into the same sort of creature, so it is possible to massmorph a group into pigs, cows or even ogres (assuming medium sized creatures), but it’s impossible to turm some into pigs and others into goats.
    If one of the creatures cannot assume the desired form, it is unaffected. The targets save against the spell’s effect individually, and one’s success or failure has no affect on the others.


    Eternal Sleep Enchantment
    . . . . . (no brainer: sleeping beauty)
    Level: Witch 6
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: Standard action
    Range: medium (100ft + 20ft / level)
    Target: 1 creature
    Duration: Permanent (D)
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    One creature you indicate falls into a deep, coma-like sleep, from which it cannot wake up by any means short of Wish or Miracle.
    The creature’s life functions are slowed and maintained by the spell so it can remain asleep indefinitely, without the need to eat or drink (but it must breathe), as long as no physical harm comes to it.
    The spell affects any creature that can be rendered comatose, including creatures that usually don’t sleep (such as elves).
    When the spell is cast, you must designate and speak aloud one condition that will awaken the creature.
    The condition could be anything that comes to mind, but it must be accomplishable in some way by mortal means (i.e. without magical powers) and not directly harmful to the creature. The witch doesn't have to disclose this information, but it's obtainable via Analyze Dweomer, Legend Lore or Vision.
    If the condition is fulfilled, the spell ends immediately.

    ================================================== =========

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    One last thing.

    I'd consider giving a 20th level witch access to 7th level spells in her primary circle - just because I could easily imagine a witch casting control weather / creeping doom / insanity / irresistible dance / project image / spell turning / vision

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Quellian,

    Good I'm definitely happy that I hit the tier 3 mark. I think tier 3 is actually fairly hard to hit, with the tendencey to veer off into tier 4 or tier 2 by accident.

    I'm not so worried about leaving one swarm member in a corner to survive. That would actually be a pretty smart use, though I think limiting the distances the members are away from one another might be a good idea. As far as action abuse, I think I'm going to force a limited number of actions (two rounds worth actions should be fair with the other limitations of wildshape right?).

    I'm not so worried about omen. I actually thought about the same thing as you. I think the fact a save needs to be made against the original hex effect makes this ok.

    I can returned the spellcasting to normal for the ACF. You're probably right on that.

    The first level spells being counted as second was more to deal with the problem of granting a massive number of spells each day. I don't think I want to change it. I was just brooding over the low number of starting spells. I guess a crazy number of potions doesn't hurt if they are all weak anyways, but I still think I want the limitation on spells. Besides that I am debating whether I should double the number of potions make-able each day or not.

    Thanks.


    Nonsi,

    As I just said to quellian the first level spells as second level spells is because I want to prevent a massive spells per day. It's really just a numbers thing. So some spells might become obsolete, but if you pick up some of the neater stuff they won't.

    Sorry about being obsessed about the whole tier 3 thing, but I try to always hit that straight on the spot. You're right though, no nukes to be seen.

    I actually haven't looked at your warrior. Is it in your rewrite and is there an online version I can look at? Anyway I will loosen the restrictions on third circle spells from that feat.

    Voodoo doll... I think that might be a bit much to add in. I was thinking one of the three following possibilities for it: a string of voodoo feats, a prestige class, or another ACF. I'm leaning towards the former two, though I get leary about prestige classes unless they are absolutely necessary. I just feal feats and ACFs would draw away from the customization of other effects too much.

    As far as good witch stuff, I'll have to think of some things. I had appraoched this as the witch always having a slightly dark edge to her no matter the alignment. If you have ideas I'm all for the help on this part.

    Your point about witches not being good at fighting is definitely a good point. A seperate BaB for wildshape could be a good idea, but I was a bit worried about leaving out the gish folks. I think I will change this as you suggested though.

    If I give her access to 7th level spells I think I want to do so as a feat, that is only accessable at 19th or 20th level. I guess this would sort of be the witch's 'epic,' but not epic spellcasting.

    I'll get back to your spell's later, because I have this massive list of stuff to deal with first.


    Cipher,

    Thanks for the praise. I'll definitely include voodoo somehow (see my response to nonsi). You're witch was rather interesting and in fact heavily influenced the creation mine (specifically it lead to the circles (from your patron set up), the hex feats (need I say), and the mage mark ability (from your tattoo thing)).


    Everyone,

    Alright. I think I covered everything. Thanks a lot guys.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2012-06-02 at 10:52 PM.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    ... those spell lists do not seem balanced. Cleric spells are far better buff spells than druid spells, and shadow/necromancy seems very limited comparatively. You want to write out separate spell lists for these things, so that witches won't all just go cleric/druid or cleric/shadow.

    Then again, the potionmaking is pretty weak... I'm not 100% sure what to make of this.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    I don't think the cleric list is that much better than the druids, especially since it doesn't have any necromancy spell's included here. Sure the buffs and damage output are better, but the druid has a lot of battle control area spells and plays better with the potion set-up.
    I'm inclined to agree more with the shadow/necromancy list though. As is I'm thinking about adding the assassin spell list to this tally.
    I forgot to give the familiar a boost in hit points, so it doesn't die instantly. In truth the familiar is completely useless anyways (well, I guess I did tie in the witch's potion crafting). It's only purpose is really flavor. I'm thinking of just making the potion crafting times standard and having the familiar tied to her normal spellcasting preperation instead.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2012-06-02 at 10:14 PM.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    I forgot to give the familiar a boost in hit points, so it doesn't die instantly. In truth the familiar is completely useless anyways (well, I guess I did tie in the witch's potion crafting). It's only purpose is really flavor. I'm thinking of just making the potion crafting times standard and having the familiar tied to her normal spellcasting preperation instead.
    Don't EVER knock flavor.
    3e familiars are indeed quite pathetic - that's why I've suggested a massive boost for them in my version of the Witch (click sig for my codex). You're welcome to (ab)use it for inspiration.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    I actually haven't looked at your warrior. Is it in your rewrite and is there an online version I can look at?
    Here's the latest version.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Oh I guess I did see it before. I hadn't realized that one was yours. I'll have to take a look at your familiars, but I'm not really wanting the familiar to do much of anything. It's sort of a 'the witch has to have a familiar' thing. Truthfully, I've never seen a familiar do anything other than help the witch with her magic.

    On another note though, I was wondering if anyone knew of any plant-spell heavy spell lists for the druid anywhere. I was looking through the druid list and the number of plant related spells are relatively low (for being a 'druid' anyways), and the ones who are useful are even more scarce.

    ---------

    Voodoo prestige class is done and is directly under the class in question.

    I also added some new feats that are specific to each circle and hopefully aren't too powerful for feats. They are as powerful as class abilities, but the fact you have to choose them over some of the other level 1 only feats (which usually tend to be somewhat better than normal feats) should make up for it.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2012-06-03 at 07:32 PM. Reason: bump / combine double post

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    "Hex 2/ targets"
    I know what you meant from the description, but the way it's written, it is read "Hex 2 per targets". This is meaningless.
    Change it to "Hex: 2 targets" or "Hex (2 targets)".


    You knock off familiars too easy. They can have a lot of added value to roleplay, strategy, mischief and a lot of other fun stuff.
    When you do get to my familiar, ignore "Dire Metamorphosis" and the familiar spells.
    The rest is viable as inspiration source in association with your witch.


    I find it odd that you associate enhanced combat capabilities with voodoo magic.
    I don't see the connection.
    Now that I've seen all your ideas regarding voodoo, here's how I'd handle it:
    1. Voodoo Spell feat is really not all that powerful. Drop the "3 other hex feats" and make it "3rd level spells from your primary circle".
    2. Improved Voodoo Spell should be viable as soon as a witch has access to 4th level primary circle spell effects.
    3. From there on, treat the Vodouist's voodoo features as feats, with Voodoo Doll requiring Improved Voodoo Spell and each consequent feature-feat requiring the previous. Basically, any HD feat or Witch-level feat should allow taking them. However, make the ability to prepare a voodoo doll during combat a separate feat.

    The above suggestions:
    - disassociate voodoo from physical combat (and the amount of added BAB & Hexes is negligible).
    - allow all voodoo powers to be gained no sooner than 18th level (Obliteration shouldn't come sooner for a tier-3 class).
    - remove the need to choose between voodoo and the other Witch features. I see no reason to make one choose one over the other, and making it a PrC would drastically decrease character versatility. For a more martially inclined Witch, there's always the Wild Heart option.

    As for tribal witchdoctors . . . . . . . . . . multiclassing.
    All the tribal witchdoctors I’ve seen only had the lower spectrum of voodoo powers (Pins and Needles at most).



    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    On another note though, I was wondering if anyone knew of any plant-spell heavy spell lists for the druid anywhere. I was looking through the druid list and the number of plant related spells are relatively low (for being a 'druid' anyways), and the ones who are useful are even more scarce.
    Try Spell Compendium and Masters of the Wild.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Alright, nonsi, I removed the PrC and made most of the changes you suggested. Voodoo is now completely feat related.
    I set up limits to uses as I did with the hex feats. I feel like unlimited uses would be too powerful for feats. The ability to combine hex and voodoo uses with a feat should make up for this.

    And sorry to be a pain, but you wouldn't happen to host your rewrite anywhere I don't have to login in would you. Google docs perhaps so I don't even have download it?

    I hope I get to play another game soon as I would like to try out this class (so many classes, not enough games). My last one, a pbp, sort of, but didn't fall through. Nobody posted for a week and when I came back and checked again everyone had left me really far behind. So sad...
    Last edited by eftexar; 2012-06-04 at 02:52 PM.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    I believe I've found a loophole that I'm not sure you'd want to be there.

    (L. 6) Voodoo Spell
    (L. 8) Improved Voodoo Spell
    (L. 9) Voodoo Doll
    (L. 12) Pins and Needles
    (L. 12) Obliterate !!!
    (L. 15) . . .
    (L. 16) . . .
    (L. 18) . . .

    You really should add Puppeteer & Blood Magic to Obliterate's prereqs.
    This serves 2 purposes:
    1. limits insta-kill to level 18
    2. makes a lot of thematic sense: you have to learn how to inflict harm to self befor applying it at a distance and you have to learn full control over your target before you can make it go in all directions.

    At the very least, add Blood Magic and Forced Movement as prereqs, so that Obliterate is not available before level 16.



    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    And sorry to be a pain, but you wouldn't happen to host your rewrite anywhere I don't have to login in would you. Google docs perhaps so I don't even have download it?
    PM me your email and I'll send it to you.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Although eftexar has stated that he’d reached his happy spot regarding his Witch – since I like this class so much and feel like it’s almost there – I’ve decided to share what I feel is missing to make it perfect:


    (I) Primary Circle is just begging for a capstone 7th level spell at level 20.


    (II) Secondary Circle needs a significant boost.
    A witch is a spellcaster. No storybook, film, TV series or anecdote would tell you otherwise.
    Folklore tells us that when you encounter a witch (even for the 20th time), you have no idea what kind of rabbit she's gonna pull out of her hat.
    Therefore, I see no motivation whatsoever not to allow selection from both remaining lists for spells of her secondary circle.
    Second, I suggest the following progression by level advancement:

    {table=head] Level | Secondary Circle
    1| 1 (1)
    2| 1 (1)
    3| 2 (1)
    4| 2 (1)
    5| 3 (2)
    6| 3 (2)
    7| 4 (2)
    8| 4 (2)
    9| 5 (3)
    10| 5 (3)
    11| 6 (3)
    12| 6 (3)
    13| 7 (4)
    14| 7 (4)
    15| 8 (4)
    16| 8 (4)
    17| 9 (5)
    18| 9 (5)
    19| 10 (5)
    20| 10 (5)
    [/table]

    In my opinion, anything below that is an insult to the theme of a witch.


    (III) And since in folklore a witch’s repertoire is intrinsically linked to her alignment, I would tie the Witch’s primary circle to it:
    If she’s evil, her primary circle would be the black circle.
    If she’s good, her primary circle would be the white circle.
    If she’s neutral, her primary circle would be the green circle.

    Whatever her primary circle is, she may freely choose spells for her secondary circle from the other two.


    (IV) Another thing that goes hand in hand with the witch in folklore, is being a bag of minor tricks, so I suggest that a witch begins her career knowing a number of cantrips/orisons (depending on her alignment) equal to her combined Wis & Cha modifiers.


    (V) Since the Witch has so few known spells, it’d be a terrible burden sacrificing any of them to augment her familiar, so I suggest that the witch’s stat-bonuses for Improved Wildshape to apply for her familiar.


    (VI) I thought about an ACF for good witches: Unicorn Rider.
    I think it would be a good idea to base it off of the “Divine celibate” PrC from BoEF, but I don’t feel the inspiration coming, so if anyone feels like taking a crack at it . . . but instead of an ACF or PrC, it might be viable as a twist of Improved Familiar.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Suggestion for fixing Primary Circle progression (just because the SL progression is more even, and a few more known spells would be an improvement in my view):


    {table=head] Level | Primary Circle
    1| 2 (1)
    2| 3 (1)
    3| 4 (2)
    4| 4 (2)
    5| 5 (2)
    6| 6 (3)
    7| 6 (3)
    8| 7 (3)
    9| 8 (4)
    10| 8 (4)
    11| 9 (4)
    12| 10 (5)
    13| 10 (5)
    14| 11 (5)
    15| 11 (5)
    16| 12 (6)
    17| 12 (6)
    18| 13 (6)
    19| 13 (6)
    20| 14 (7)
    [/table]

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    Overall very solid, though as morph pointed out the lack of size limits is an issue, (very lage creatures tend to be very powerful regardless of HD just for all their size bonuses), the most obvious low end examples i could find are Centaur and Dire Ape at 4HD for a Large creature, but i'm sure i could find plenty more with enough trawling.

    I'd go for an initial limit of Medium, increasing by 1 size category at 6th level, and one more every 6 levels thereafter as a starting point.

    There's some oddities about how your primary circle secondary circle and mage mark work together.

    1. Currently the DC of your primary circle scales off wisdom whilst your secondary and Mage Mark Invocations scales off Charisma, the capstone also provides Charisma but no Wisdom, overall this creates some stat MAD'ing which is undesirable and makes your secondary and Mage Mark more useful than your Primary circle.

    2. Currently you can cast up to 6 invocations a day and upto, (using 4th level spells only), 10 Secondary circle spells. But even if you stick with 4th level spells you can have only 5 potions a day prepared, so unless my next point is intended, (see below), your going to get far less casting power out of your primary circle than either of your other casting options. To boot the limit for higher level spells is less so unless your after an effect that can't be acquired via Invocations, and is higher level than what your secondary circle would allow you have no reason to take your most desired spell list as your primary circle. I'd recommend changing the secondary circle to a limit of 1x witch level instead of 2x, and changing primary to 2x.

    3. Currently the primary circle info says potions decay over time but doesn't say how long it takes so by RAW they never decay. This has the nice side effect of letting you stockpile potions but clearly isn't what was intended and is of limited use to a party that doesn't have to take regular long trips or doesn't get the option of taking several day breaks in their adventures.

    4. Nothing in the rules provided lets any potion you craft exceed the normal brew limits, so by RAW you can only put spells of upto 3rd level into potions.

    5. Whilst i'm guessing you intend it to work exactly like it would with a spell there's no explicit clarification on weather metamagic can be used with primary circle or how it functions.

    6. You provide no list of what spells they can have as invocations. Maybe you meant same as warlock, but this isn't very clear.

    7. whilst i appreciate there are clear rules regarding what you can and cannot put into potions, it's rather a hassle for players to look through each list and see which spells work and which don't, if you have time listing the spells from each list group and how they function with potions would be a handy resource.


    Overall a very solid class but the spellcasting as you may have noticed is giving me fits with how it functions and how that influences class level choices.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    I will have to limit size. I hadn't realized there were any considerable amount of exceptions.

    I'll have to change the capstone, but I don't see why casters shouldn't be just as mad as mundanes. Capstone already had charisma and wisdom; you must have missed it. I'll also limit size and double the spell level limit of her primary circle.

    Read carefully. It does say when they decay. It's just dependent on another condition rather than a set period of time.

    Specific supercedes general. It specifically states that potions of 'up to the indicated level' can brewed so the 3rd level limit is no longer a factor.

    Works how it would with a spell? Yes, except they can only be used for creating potions.

    I don't see where I ever said spells can be taken as invocations within the main text. They can choose any invocation whether it is the Warlock's or another invocation user's list.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2013-08-21 at 03:43 PM.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    1. Ok kind of missed part of it. Problem. It say she may prepare her potions after 6 hours of rest. Emphesis mine. That means that if she prepares potions on the last day of a quest, then never gets to use them for some reason and then goes on to take a rest for a year, a year later they'll still be ok and usable. Whereas if she prepares a new batch the day after the quest they become useless. I'm guessing you meant them to decay every time she gets the opportunity to prepare them, rather than every time she actually does so, But as written it's totally arbitrary.

    2.It says nothing of the sort.

    Instead she may brew potions and make other conconctions such as oils and powers with them. This functions as the brew potions feat, except as noted here.
    At each indicated level the witch gains a new spell(s) for this purpose from her chosen list for this circle, up to her maximum spell level (see parenthesis). The save for any of these mixtures is a DC of 10 + 1/2 her witch levels + her wisdom modifier.
    That tells us she brews potions with spells stored in them, (and the subsequent rules go onto describe how they are employed), it also tells us how she gains spells for the purposes of doing so.It does not state anywhere that the normal spell level limits do not apply. It's obviously what was intended, but without a houserule as written spells above 3rd level are unusable.


    3. fair enough.

    4. Invocations are spell like abilities, so i just called them spells as short hand, sorry for confusion. I'd recommend creating your own even if it is just a short list as otherwise someone without the relevant expansion containing the invocations list wouldn't have a clue what could be cast.

    EDIT:

    Just seen the comment about wildshape scaling in morph's thread. The problem there is someone could take 6 levels of this class to get wildshape and natural spell feat, then take the rest in a much better caster class. That's abuse far beyond anything sane or sensible. I'd make it:

    HD equal to the Witch level, plus the level of any other class with the wildshape ability, plus half the combined level of all non-wildshape capble classes

    Stops it becoming totally useless if you do a heavy multi-class, but also stop abuse with squishy full casters picking it up and then packing on much more powerful casting to go with their excellent new melee prowess.
    Last edited by Carl; 2013-08-21 at 04:13 PM.

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    Default Re: The Witch, a tier 3 druid (3.5, Peach)

    This specifically says when they become inert: "As such they have little, if any, sale value and become inert when she next makes new potions," though I added "in this way" for further clarification (so she can make normal potions as well).

    You have actually quoted the statement that supports me. She gains new spells for this purpose up to the maximum level. This purpose is to make potions and therefore this specific rule supercedes the general rule of a maximum of third level.

    Changed Wildshape, so that only half non-Wildshape levels apply.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2013-08-21 at 09:12 PM.

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