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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    Hey lurkers and followers! It's my birthday to day, so maybe y'all can do me a favor...

    Still trying to figure out a bunch of things in this system, and I'm reaching a point where I need creative stimulation to figure things out. Based on what I've said so far, perhaps some of you can help me figure out some of the next steps in the system, from some implemented areas to some wider and more problematic ones. So here's a laundry list...take as much or as little as you'd like.

    Prolonged Casting-

    -How exactly would one make a magical weapon? (Physical magic? Is it actually possible? Or is it needed to cast a spell on it each time?)

    -Caster must rekindle a spell over time. Thoughts? Implications? (Such as recast fly to continue flying after a period of time. Perhaps this will need a little math-a-mancy, such as, how is an individuals ability to maintain a spell quantified?)

    -The alternative to rekindling - Legends. Thoughts? Implications? (very hard to keep to standards, almost too dynamic, would rather shy away from, perhaps once was possible?) Note: There are however two conflicting ideas on this subject...I'll need to figure out which I like more.

    Linked Animals-

    -How does the name "Creatures of the Bond" sound? (Cheesy still? Or good?)

    -Effects of separation from this Bond, or even prolonged distance from a Bonded Animal? (out-caste, unbonded becoming mentors, crazies?)

    -Can this bond be tampered with through mental magic?

    Overloading in Cumulative Casting- (largest hole in system)

    -Complications, Techniques, Penalties and so on? (See my post on Overloading...how does it sound? Questions, concerns, so on)

    More than Magic- (Brand new gaping wide hole of doom)

    -Recent discussion on 3 powers instead of just magic - Luck, Destiny, and Magic. Thoughts? Ideas? (See last couple posts, looking for lots of input and ideas. Should these act similar to magic (faith and superstition) or be completely different, or somewhere in between?)

    Misc-

    -Training for Casters (Who, what, when and how long?)

    -Implications of it being very difficult to cast directly on someone, as in making someone else fly (for at least visual) Thoughts? Suggestions?

    -Looking to make a Mathamatical Formula for Negative Variables in Casting. Any suggestions? (see Post 11 for examples of other Formulas)

    Overall, if you have any questions, compliments, beliefs, critques and so on, I would be greatful to hear them!
    Last edited by TheWombatOfDoom; 2012-08-30 at 08:44 AM.
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

    World Building Projects:
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    : The Stuff of Sentience | Fate: The Fabric of Physics | Luck: The Basis of Biology

    Order of the Stick Projects:
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    Hrm, ok then...

    Magic weapons.
    Physical magic is the obvious choice for these, but I'd actually be far more tempted personally to make the creation of 'magic' weapons far more complex, allow me to elaborate.

    You have 3 powers in the world; magic, luck and destiny. These should ALL be required to create an enchanted weapon imo, making them both very expensive and immensely rare. Firstly, you'd need an appropriate material (I always felt that magical kit should be made out of specific substances anyhow) which is capable of 'mystic resonance'. Then you'd need a magically powered 'Runeforge' or the like, which you use ritually (see my ideas on luck below) to create the weapon itself. Lastly, you'd inscribe the weapon with passages from ancient texts (the particular passage would depend on what enchantment you want) which binds the weapon to a specific destiny. Voila! An enchanted weapon!


    Magic, Luck & Destiny.

    Magic (as far as I'm understanding it) is something which exists between things. It's all about the movement of energies which exist passively in all things. This makes magic more of a by-product than an actual force in some respects, a transitional phase which is part of a reaction. As such, magic is all about interaction.

    Luck, in my mind, should be all about appeasement. Luck is an actual, near-tangible force in the world, and those who manipulate it do so through rituals and methodical behaviour. We can see this in many areas of superstition where you can negate bad luck, or create good luck by, for instance, avoiding walking under things, throwing salt over your shoulder, turning 3 times widdershins, etc. Someone who uses luck to do things would be full of these little rituals and odd behaviours, would almost certainly have taboos which they would need to maintain, etc. As far as mechanics are concerned, luck-users would have a pool of luck points which need constant replenishing, and may be expended to increase or decrease luck in themselves and the immediate world and people around them (so the fact that someone will be struck by an arrow is pre-destined, but a luck user could decide whether that arrow inflicts a mortal wound, or merely a scratch). This would make luck an external-only force, akin to early understandings of divine influence, appease luck and you will lead a charmed life.

    Destiny is about the inevitable. The course you are put upon from the moment you enter the world. Destiny users should be able to glimpse the flow of fate around them, inside themselves, and even in other things, and can therefore manipulate those flows to avoid/promote certain outcomes. There would be 'forks' in destiny, points in time where this flow could go in more than one direction, and this would be where much of the power lies. To be able to manipulate these flows to force them down one path or another would allow the influence of other's decisions, and even give or take power and influence itself. Mechanically speaking, this is the hardest concept to implement. You'd have to identify moments where two or three different outcomes are possible, and allow the destiny user to choose which of these outcomes they wish to try and force into being. It would also allow destiny users to glimpse the near-future, and see the shape of it to some extent or another, making them rather oracular in nature. A lot of the power of destiny would be in the ability to prepare for things before they happened, and change outcomes before the cause occurred. As such, destiny would be an internal force, powered by knowledge.

    Destiny and Luck therefore, will compete constantly. Destiny dictates eventual outcomes, but luck allows you to dodge/intersect/lessen/worsen those outcomes to some extent, making them opposing forces. Magic is left basically in the middle, the result of the interactions between luck and destiny creates excess energies which linger all around, and may be manipulated by those with the understanding to achieve incredible things.
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    Hrm, ok then...

    Magic weapons.
    I love this! That's a wonderful solution. It's interesting because most items are attributed to one of these 3: Lucky Rabbit's Foot, Pick of Destiny, Magic Carpet. But they all actually are encompassed by all 3. This...a cookie for you sir! That clears that up very neatly.


    Magic, Luck & Destiny.
    ...I believe I'm going to have to make a new thread in the future.

    I agree with this. And it makes a lot of sense on a primal level when you think about it toward races. (First thing I thought was - luck...dragon...falcor!) Dragons evolutionarily are extreamely lucky. It's quite astounding that they exist at all! It makes me chuckle to think of dragons as superstitious, but it leaves me with an excellent start to a more interesting culture. It also puts them at odds with the elves, which is fine by me. The elves, being in touch with the forces of the elements translate fairly well to them also being in touch with destiny. It makes the elves a bit more powerful than I anticipated, but maybe I'll be able to merge the two ideas of elemental use and destiny use...not exactly sure how. Ancients fit in well as the middle ground.

    So these races are the chosen arbiters of each force in the world. What happens when one of these races dies out?

    Last, the systems of luck and destiny have to have an active and dormant make up, just like magic does. That way the balance trade off can exist that we spoke of earlier. The way you described luck reminds me of some of the mechanics for magic. I might be able to salvage a similar system in some ways. As for destiny, perhaps dormant is being able to see it, and active is being able to manipulate it?
    Last edited by TheWombatOfDoom; 2012-07-25 at 10:16 AM.
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

    World Building Projects:
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    : The Stuff of Sentience | Fate: The Fabric of Physics | Luck: The Basis of Biology

    Order of the Stick Projects:
    Annotation of the Comic | Magic Compendium of the Comic | Transcription of the Comic
    Dad-a-chum? Dum-a-chum? Ded-a-chek? Did-a-chick?
    Extended Signature | My DeviantArt | Majora's Mask Point Race
    (you can't take the sky from me)

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    So these races are the chosen arbiters of each force in the world. What happens when one of these races dies out?
    Good question...you have a lot of those, I've noticed!

    If luck or destiny were to lose their arbiters, then the other force would become far more powerful, so if Dragons disappeared, the world would become more and more pre-ordained, making it virtually impossible for anyone to avoid the path laid ahead of them. Eventually this would lead to complete stagnation, whereby all things would be predicted before they happened, and the mortal races would go insane with despair over time.
    If Elves disappeared then the world would slowly become truly erratic and random, pure chance would become commonplace, and predicting ANYTHING would become more and more unlikely. Eventually this would lead to the complete destruction of order in all it's forms, and the world as anyone knows it would cease to be.
    If Ancients disappeared (ahhah! the crux of the matter!) then the latent energies created by the conflict between luck and destiny would build up, since there's nothing to expend it any more. The world, and the creatures in it, would become heavily polarised in one direction or the other, massive wars would ensue eventually as cultures clashed with each other more and more, luck and destiny would both become enhanced to the point where weather patterns became extreme and the seasons got muddled over which one came next, and eventually the very fabric of the world would be ripped in two.

    The common thread is cataclysm (I love that word!).

    It occurs to me, after writing this, that alignment comes into this rather heavily. Luck = chaos, Destiny = law, Magic = neutrality. This does not, by any means, dictate the alignment of any individual Elf, Dragon or Ancient, but it certainly provides a baseline for their internal thought processes and fundamental behaviours and reactions. The possibilities I've outlined above are extreme examples, and it stands to reason that some other race or group would probably be 'drafted in' to take one of these race's place if such an event occurred. The likelihood of their success would be variable of course, and they would probably never hold the same dominion/responsibility as the elder race they replaced, but I like the idea of 'cosmic balance' trying to fix any screw-up like this, no matter how badly the fix might hold.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheWombatOfDoom View Post
    Last, the systems of luck and destiny have to have an active and dormant make up, just like magic does. That way the balance trade off can exist that we spoke of earlier. The way you described luck reminds me of some of the mechanics for magic. I might be able to salvage a similar system in some ways. As for destiny, perhaps dormant is being able to see it, and active is being able to manipulate it?
    Yes indeed...destiny lends itself nicely to active/dormant doesn't it?! As far as luck is concerned, perhaps dormant would indicate someone who lives a 'charmed life', whereas active would mean conscious control over luck in themselves, others and their immediate surroundings.

    Also, would this mean that Elves cannot discern the threads of fate which permeate Dragons, and Dragons cannot affect the luck of Elves? If so, would it also be reasonable to assume that magic would have a lesser effect on either of these two races, since part of the power came from the force that race controls..? This could lead to some very interesting encounters and occurrences indeed!
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    Oh, btw...

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
    Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
    World Warper
    Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    -How does the name "Creatures of the Bond" sound? (Cheesy still? Or good?)
    How about 'Nexus Creatures'? Means the same thing, but sounds much funkier!

    -Effects of separation from this Bond, or even prolonged distance from a Bonded Animal? (out-caste, unbonded becoming mentors, crazies?)
    Distance from the bond would indicate a certain ostracising I'd say, whereas a full separation would likely send them mad. Mentors would make sense for those who somehow survived the mental anguish and confusion resulting from the loss of a bond, explaining why they are capable of mentoring in the first place, and also why they're pretty rare.

    -Can this bond be tampered with through mental magic?
    I reckon you could disrupt a bond for a short period of time, yes. This would result in one of the two above effects for the duration of the tampering. I'd definitely stand against the idea of being able to break it entirely with magic though, it would only take one malicious caster to undo a lot of bonds otherwise, and that's just not balanced imo!
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

    My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
    Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
    World Warper
    Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    Good question...you have a lot of those, I've noticed!
    Well, it looks like you've managed to get some valuable plot drops from me! - The ultimate plot of the story is the debate as to whether magic should be in the world at all, since it can be so devastating when used maliciously, and even with the best intent, could be equally so. Some ancients believe the race no longer deserves to exist, and are working to kill off the last of the race, and then themselves. They see those that remain as evil (whether those people know it or not). So! It would be interesting if that were punctuated by the point that if the ancients die, it meant the beginning of the end. No one really knows what will happen...what would happen to the creatures made by magic? They'd probably slowly (or not so slowly!) die off. Hmmm....also since there's a lower number, wouldn't it be interesting if they're more potent casters? As for luck and destiny......

    ...I'm sure of this - If any of these eventualities happen, I'm sure that it would be an...unpleasent time period. However, indeed I think either a new race would take it up. In fact, what if a race ended up with both? Would that not cause magic to...end? I think I'll do some private deliberations. I don't want to give away what I have planned. I love Cataclysm too!

    It occurs to me, after writing this, that alignment comes into this rather heavily. Luck = chaos, Destiny = law, Magic = neutrality. This does not, by any means, dictate the alignment of any individual Elf, Dragon or Ancient, but it certainly provides a baseline for their internal thought processes and fundamental behaviours and reactions.
    Very good point.

    Alright, so here's what I have for passive vs. active:

    Magic: Full Magic > Limited Magic (Based on belief)
    Destiny: Manipulation > Observation (Based on faith)
    Luck: Manifestation > Detection (Based on superstition)

    I hadn't thought of each being limited to each's race. I'd be inclined to say at least magic is not limited as such. Which makes sense, in a way. Especially since Magic is the Peanut butter that fits between the two slices of bread. Hmmm....that analogy may have just inspired something VERY interesting......hmmmmmm.... But yes, Destiny and Luck? I don't see thjem as able to affect each other. But they perhaps could affect magic?

    How about 'Nexus Creatures'? Means the same thing, but sounds much funkier!
    Eh, I prefer CotB to that. Nexus is too funky!

    And on the animal bonds, I agree. I just wanted to confirm that made sense.

    (and thank you for the birthday wishes!)
    Last edited by TheWombatOfDoom; 2012-07-26 at 11:37 AM.
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

    World Building Projects:
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    : The Stuff of Sentience | Fate: The Fabric of Physics | Luck: The Basis of Biology

    Order of the Stick Projects:
    Annotation of the Comic | Magic Compendium of the Comic | Transcription of the Comic
    Dad-a-chum? Dum-a-chum? Ded-a-chek? Did-a-chick?
    Extended Signature | My DeviantArt | Majora's Mask Point Race
    (you can't take the sky from me)

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    Still got somethings I need help gathering my thought on which are listed on Post 31. Anyone interested in helping me brainstorm, or adding their two sense about what I have so far?
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

    World Building Projects:
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    : The Stuff of Sentience | Fate: The Fabric of Physics | Luck: The Basis of Biology

    Order of the Stick Projects:
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    Dad-a-chum? Dum-a-chum? Ded-a-chek? Did-a-chick?
    Extended Signature | My DeviantArt | Majora's Mask Point Race
    (you can't take the sky from me)

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    UPDATE! Rewrote some sections on the "OP" on post 11, but instead of updating it there, I've moved the whole Wall of Text to the first post, for ease and to encourage more to PEACH the project. Anyways, here are the additions.

    Ancients have “the spark”, which gives them the ability to affect reality through magic. In other words, everyone has the power of belief, but only the Ancients can affect reality with that belief. That power to affect reality is what we call ‘Magic’.

    Ancient Characteristics:

    The Ancient race is one of the three founding races in Aldain. They are often referred to by the Elves as "True Men", as they are the ancestors (at least partially) of the "Hewn men", the race that was born through the coupling of Ancients and Elves. The Ancients used to be one of the leading populous until civil wars and crossbreeding with other races nearly wiped out the race completely. There are currently only a known handful of them left (between one and two hundred). Ancients do not have a written or spoken language. They communicate by memories. This means when communicating a recount of what happened an Ancient need only transfer the memory to do so. Other more complex things can be communicated through senses, feelings, memories of object and even emotions. The Ancients with this ability can sense other Ancient’s minds in a close proximity, and custom dictates permission must be asked before one talks to (or rather enters the mind of) another Ancient. A connection can be blocked off at either end in a communication at any time. Connections can be maintained once started over a long distance, but the farther from someone is the more energy it takes to send information. It takes minimal amounts of energy to communicate to someone you are in contact with or in the close vicinity of. Additionally, sleep or unconsciousness ends the link. The only exception to this rule is in the connections that the Ancients have with their animal companions called “Creatures of the Bond”. These connections are a sacred bond that each Ancient shares with their respective animal, and they can communicate through a much longer distance than ancient to ancient. The connection between an ancient and their creature is very similar to the normal connection between two ancients, save that it is more powerful. Female Ancients have cats of prey like lions, panthers, cougars, jaguars, tigers, and more while male Ancients have birds of prey, such as eagles, hawks, owls, falcons, and so on. These creatures are sentient companions to each. Mental bonds in general can be disrupted by an external party, and can even be magically blocked if one is committed to the task, but these bonds cannot be broken by anything but death.

    The Broken Bond – An Ancient that has lost its Creature of the Bond, or a Creature that has lost its Ancient, will never be able to repeat this connection in another. This separation if left to its own devises can cause the respective half to go mad. To counteract this, most Ancients that have a broken bond are tasked with becoming teachers to train other Ancients in casting, or other tasks in which they are often in contact with other minds, to prevent madness.


    I also covered some more details about magic, and added a magical instruction section:

    Magic is unlimited to draw from. However as earlier stated, it is limited by what the caster believes they are capable of and what their ability allows them to accomplish. Therefore, Magic is partially inherent (in terms of how creative and imaginative one can be) and partially through scientific study (in terms of studying a wide variety of objects that may be used for a spell). The greater one understands an object, the more accurate the object will become in illusion, or manipulated within physical magic. So, the less you know about casting, the less confidence you have in casting. This causes you to be limited in what you are able to cast. Also, not studying objects or practicing spells often diminishes the quality and effect of a spell. In essence, power is derived (as the equations say above) from interior and exterior of belief. A caster’s interior belief regulates their capacity for magic. The less capacity a caster has the more energy it takes to create spells. Further, in visual and mental magic, it also causes maintained spells to have shorter life spans before the caster would need to rekindle it. At lower power, a fly spell could be something akin to a large hop, as it consumes energy at a rapid rate. As a caster gains power, the flights would grow longer and longer in distance, however power will never make a spell unlimited.

    A caster that has exhausted them self casting can recover by means people commonly use to recover from normal exhaustion. Casting is like any other activity a body performs and so recovers similarly from it. Over exhaustion could cause hospitalization or even in some cases - death. The body often attempts to stop a caster before they reach the point of exhaustion, and will begin shutting down to avoid mortal exhaustion. Still, a so willed caster can force their body to beyond this point. Since the ability to cast derives fundamentally in the belief that you can cast, it is common for a caster who has experienced a traumatizing situation or loss by magical or non-magical means to find them self unable to cast for a period of time.

    Magical Instruction: Training begins as soon as possible for an Ancient. At first, the parents are responsible in magical instruction. A child when they are in this stage could exhibit some affinity for a particular form of magic. Once a child shows signs for a particular school of magic, they begin to be schooled in that path. As stated earlier, many instructors for magic are Ancients who have had their bonds broken. They take on pupils and work with them at a young age to overcome the five barriers to casting. Each person varies on how quickly or slowly they grasp and understand these principles, and so the time it takes for each caster to be trained varies greatly. The instructors also hone the caster’s talents that would aid them in casting, such as public speaking or persuasive writing, acting, music, or visual art. To become familiar with the material components of a spell, Ancients study natural and physical sciences, history and culture. These seemingly rudimentary tasks will greatly aide casters not only with their interactions with people, but in reality in general. The use of magic is considered by the Ancients to be an art form. Each uses their talents in different ways, and so the results of a spell often are dependent on a caster. Think of casting like a fingerprint. Each result of a spell is similar, but they don’t happen quite the same way. While it is possible for an Ancient to start training after childhood, results vary as to its effectiveness, as it is harder to grasp ways around some of the harder barriers, as age exhibits a more formed belief system than a youth.


    Thoughts?

    Also! I still need help figuring out overloading.
    Last edited by TheWombatOfDoom; 2012-08-30 at 09:07 AM.
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

    World Building Projects:
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    : The Stuff of Sentience | Fate: The Fabric of Physics | Luck: The Basis of Biology

    Order of the Stick Projects:
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    Extended Signature | My DeviantArt | Majora's Mask Point Race
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    Working on some of the features, and figuring out what to do about certain aspects. In the mean time, anyone got some PEACH, suggestions or feedback?
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    I get by with a little help from my friends!

    Thinking that this thread might be more applicable in the world building area since this is more of a setting thing than a game mechanic. Should I ask to have this thread moved, or just start a new thread and add other parts of the setting into it by reserve posting?
    Last edited by TheWombatOfDoom; 2012-10-25 at 07:56 AM.
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

    World Building Projects:
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    : The Stuff of Sentience | Fate: The Fabric of Physics | Luck: The Basis of Biology

    Order of the Stick Projects:
    Annotation of the Comic | Magic Compendium of the Comic | Transcription of the Comic
    Dad-a-chum? Dum-a-chum? Ded-a-chek? Did-a-chick?
    Extended Signature | My DeviantArt | Majora's Mask Point Race
    (you can't take the sky from me)

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    Default Re: Custom Magic Mechanics - WIP

    New thread found - Here.

    This will include ideas on fate, luck, and other world details.
    Scientific Name: Wombous apocolypticus | Diet: Apocolypse Pie | Cuddly: Yes

    World Building Projects:
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    Order of the Stick Projects:
    Annotation of the Comic | Magic Compendium of the Comic | Transcription of the Comic
    Dad-a-chum? Dum-a-chum? Ded-a-chek? Did-a-chick?
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