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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Nothing is happening? Are you kidding? There has been a lot of stuff going on with Annie recently, and the robots slowly forming a religion around Kat, and Zimmy who might be getting better, and whatever the deal's with Anthony, and...
    Well, of course, those things don't affect the plot at large (yet?). But as memnarch said, there aren't that many comics where you can expect world-changing events to happen. Maybe it's just not your kind of comic. As for me, I LOVE the world-building, and the characters reacting in their own way to what's going on around them.
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  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    I have noticed that......Nothings happening! This whole comic is a giant world-building arc, with occasional flashes of minor occurrences.
    Uh, yeah. That's what Gunnerkrigg is mostly about. Interesting interactions between characters and the world. Having a singular major plot that is the central focus of the comic such as OotS are not what GC does. It's a different sort of story.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Everything feels so cutesy, like everybody is having a giant feelings jam, or is pouty, and requires a feeling jam to make it right.
    That's Gunnerkrigg right from the start. Remember Basil?


    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Sure there are a few ongoing story elements (Dad issues, Robots, and ghost lady and nature/ non-nature relationships) , but they don't feel important. Sure they TALK about importance of these things but its just TREATED in a "Meh- when the worldbuilding gets there" type way. Nothing is critical or vital, and im not very interested in the world anymore.
    Sounds like GC isn't a story you enjoy. It's actually fairly episodic, stuff happens and gets (mostly) solved in each chapter, a few threads of the larger plot are added or removed, and the next episode repeats over again.
    Truth resists simplicity.

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    The big mystery of Gunnerkrigg Court is not so much "what's going to happen" as "what's going on?" It is a load of world building, and character development and feelings. It's the mystery of the court that keeps me reading. Perhaps you're concerned about the lack of payoff in each chapter? That annoys me too sometimes, but I settle for every little clue to one of the many little plots going on.
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  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    It is an episodic supernatural mystery with a focus on character and world building.

    No, you're not getting any huge payoff until the end. Maybe.
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  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mauve Shirt View Post
    what's going on?
    Outside of generally not receiving anything that really satisfies these questions for me, the question I ask is "Why does it matter?". And 99% of the time? It doesn't. It won't matter, and if it does, not for very long.

    Who cares that Coyote is made from human belief? Will it change anything? Will it matter?

    The answer to these questions will at best be: It will cause a feelings jam. And at worst: No.

    And the world HAS been defanged. When it began, the court looked all dark and crumbling, with monsters hiding in nature, and mysteries in the civilization.

    It lost all that edge. Case and point: Reynard. When he began, he was a morally dubious and questionable, with a demonic looking body (as demonic as possible for a toy). Now hes cuddly all the time, and with a level of cute that makes me vomit.

    Worldbuilding is like the scenery for a play.

    To describe the comic for me:

    When you first come into the theatre and look at the stage, I see the amazing set. Filled with dark corners and mysteries. They go through detailed explanations of the set, and the scenery. I want interesting things to happen on that scenery but it doesn't. All they offer are ocasional skits that utilize about 10% of the scenery in between of long bouts of explanation about the scenery. Not only that, but they continuously shine huge spotlights at the dark corners and mysteries revealing smiley faces and cute animal greeting cards.

    And what bugs me most is the nature aspect. Its the most babified Hippie way of nature ever.

    Annie spends two months in the wild in "Jungle Queen!" wear and at worst comes back smelling iffy.

    Are you kidding me? If you read "The Hatchet" which describes in great detail the starvation, the survival, the danger and the brutality of nature it just sounds pathetic.

    And annie starts babbling about "One with nature" about meditation. Are you kidding Annie?

    How about bashing animals in the head with a rock, nude, covered in grime, halfway starved, whilst drinking water filled with Parasites! Hows that for one with nature!

    But if its later revealed that Coyote was doing this intentionally (Giving her a false sense of the wild so she trusts him more) then I will eat my words and give a loud applause to the comic.

    But for now im not reading. If the above happens PM me.
    Last edited by Scowling Dragon; 2012-08-16 at 11:43 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    And what bugs me most is the nature aspect. Its the most babified Hippie way of nature ever.

    Annie spends two months in the wild in "Jungle Queen!" wear and at worst comes back smelling iffy.

    Are you kidding me? If you read "The Hatchet" which describes in great detail the starvation, the survival, the danger and the brutality of nature it just sounds pathetic.

    And annie starts babbling about "One with nature" about meditation. Are you kidding Annie?

    How about bashing animals in the head with a rock, nude, covered in grime, halfway starved, whilst drinking water filled with Parasites! Hows that for one with nature!
    Annie wasn't stranded alone in the wilderness. She was living with the Anwye, the green elf-people, with Jones showing up every week or so to check on her.
    Think less "was dropped in the middle of the Rockies with nothing but a knife" and more "Lived in an off-the-grid hippie commune for a few months". She's not saying she's communing with the spirit of the earth mother or whatever, she's just saying listen to the wind rustling the trees.

    Here is the meditation scene you appear to be describing. It seems like some pretty standard visualization stuff, with the twist that Annie actually has some magic.
    Last edited by BRC; 2012-08-16 at 11:57 AM.

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  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Then thats not realy nature. Thats fey. Those that twist nature to their whims. Their ANYTHING but natural.

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    Then thats not realy nature. Thats fey. Those that twist nature to their whims. Their ANYTHING but natural.
    It's a magical forest with talking animals. What did you expect.
    It's more Transcendentalism vs Enlightenment than anything approaching reality. Symbolism rather than Substance.

    The Forest = Nature = Magic = Instinct = Superstition
    The Court = Civilization = Science = Reason = Logic

    if you're looking for real nature, watch Planet Earth.

    Or actually, watch Planet Earth anyway, it's very well done.

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  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    I don't remember anyone in the comic speaking about nature. They talk of the Forest, which is opposed to the Court. And it's never about nature vs. technology, since Coyote, Ysengrin, the fairies, elves, shadow men, and other denizens of the Forest are anything but natural; they're all supernatural. And of course, there's more to nature than just the forest biome.

    Likewise, the Court isn't really about technology. They seem more about alchemy. A quest to turn the supernatural into the mundane.
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  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    I don't remember anyone in the comic speaking about nature. They talk of the Forest, which is opposed to the Court. And it's never about nature vs. technology, since Coyote, Ysengrin, the fairies, elves, shadow men, and other denizens of the Forest are anything but natural; they're all supernatural. And of course, there's more to nature than just the forest biome.

    Likewise, the Court isn't really about technology. They seem more about alchemy. A quest to turn the supernatural into the mundane.
    Here I thought Alchemy was the quest to turn the mundane into the supernatural...
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  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    If it can work one way, it can work the other way!
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    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Yeah, if you thought summer in the forest would be about "nature" and "survival" then you must have not read the same comic. I immediately knew it would be about magic and the people of the forest.

    This comic is all about grumpy treewolves.
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  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    The comic is a story about teenage girls growing up, basically.

    If you were ever expecting anything other then cute, amusing character scenes in a fantasy setting you were reading the wrong comic.

    You ask 'why does it matter' when nothing seems to have an effect on the political background of the setting. Annie spends chapters just talking with her friends or dealing with a phonecall from her neglectful father and by and large the court and the forest are exactly how they were when she started.

    Well the reason why it matters is that it matters to the characters and we're supposed to care about the characters. That's it. It's a comic which is mroe interested in the characters relationship with each other than the plot, mroe interested in conversation than fight scenes and more interested in interpersonal friction then personal peril.

    The comic you thought it was isn't the comic it is. Basil and Mort should have clued you into that long before Renard and Ysengrin. Annie doesn't fight strange entities she befriends them, that's the concept. Of course the initially intimidating and creepy have become cute and welcoming as she's got to know them better, thats the point. Going right back to shadow 2 in the first chapter.
    Last edited by Cestrian; 2012-08-17 at 06:49 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Heh. Looked back at the beginning of the comic. Wonder how informative this lesson was.
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  15. - Top - End - #285
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mauve Shirt View Post
    Heh. Looked back at the beginning of the comic. Wonder how informative this lesson was.
    Looks like Annie was the only one who remained conscious and she already knew most/all of that stuff. So I'd say not very informative.
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  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Since you brought up the story line. doesn't this disprove Coyote's theory? If what Coyote says is true, then shouldn't the true story of the minotaur be the one that people actually tell?
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2012-08-18 at 02:32 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #287
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    Since you brought up the story line. doesn't this disprove Coyote's theory? If what Coyote says is true. then shouldn't the true story of the minotaur be the one that people actually tell?
    Well, that assumes the Minotaur is a direct result of people generating him from belief as Coyote claims to be, which seems unlikely. More probably, I'd say, is that he's more like Ysengrin or the Glass-Eyed Men- created by a mythic power (or by SCIENCE!) but living his own life (well, susceptible to manipulating, but not inherently more so than humans) after that.

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    That's what I figure too. There are beings that are pure biology, beings that are pure ether and beings that are hybrids of the two. Only the pure ether variety are ruled by belief. I also suspect that having magical talent means that you have an ethereal ancestor in your family tree somewhere.

    The Glass Eyed Men screw with this hypothesis a bit but we don't really know what they are yet.
    Last edited by Spamotron; 2012-08-18 at 04:17 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #289
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    The GEM's are creations of Coyote, they are probably extensions of him.

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  20. - Top - End - #290
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Poor Ysengrin.

    But his comment about Annie's ancestors raises a subject I hadn't considered. Namely, what would Fire Elementals make of Annie? Would they see her as a long lost relative, or a blasphemy?

    Hopefully she gets some idea before she attends any family reunions.

  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    NOw I'm thinking the theory was a plot to put distance between Ysengrin and Annie. Can't have them being friends.
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  22. - Top - End - #292
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mauve Shirt View Post
    Now I'm thinking the theory was a plot to put distance between Ysengrin and Annie. Can't have them being friends.
    You're suggesting that Coyote never actually believed his theory at all, and he just said it to break up their friendship? I can get behind that theory, it fits pretty well with him being a trickster and a huge jerk.

    The question is, what if anything does he get from that? Maybe he is just threatened by the fact that Ysengrin has a friend at all. Many abusive spouses hate that because it feels like a loss of control(or something?).
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  23. - Top - End - #293
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mauve Shirt View Post
    NOw I'm thinking the theory was a plot to put distance between Ysengrin and Annie. Can't have them being friends.
    Coyote is no liar. Therein lies the danger.
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  24. - Top - End - #294
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    He is a Trickster. Words are but one thing they twist.
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  25. - Top - End - #295
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glass Mouse View Post
    Yes. This. I suspect Coyote always tells the truth. Maybe not the whole truth, and maybe he tells it in a way that leads people to get the wrong idea; but for a trickster, to lie using nothing BUT truth would be a badge of honor. If Coyote says he believes he does not exist and is the product of the mind of man, then that is what he believes. Although it may not be ALL he believes...

    And I don't understand this idea some have that Coyote is trying to break up Annie and Ysengrin's friendship. If you consider carefully, it's clear Coyote is WHY they're friends. Who showed Annie Ysengrin as he sees himself, as others see him, and as he really is? Who revealed Annie's nature to Ysengrin? Who kept putting the two of them together in circumstances where the distraught, frightened cub would need reassurance and spine stiffening, and where the grouchy, bitter old wolf would benefit from respect, companionship, and even affection from the not-completely-human? If Coyote wanted them as enemies, he could have just exacerbated their initial feelings towards each other; instead, he's gone the other way. For purposes of his own. Which may be about to bear fruit; Annie's questioning of why Ysengrin insists on being in a humanoid shape, and her efforts to reassure him in turn, might be about to bring the cause of Ysengrin's hate and rage to the surface...

  26. - Top - End - #296
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    I think he's trying more to break her ties to the Court.
    Breaking Ysengrin and Antimony's bond may be just collateral damage.
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  27. - Top - End - #297
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    How is making her (more) angry at Coyote going to break her ties to the court?
    Also, yep, rage is at the surface.
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  28. - Top - End - #298
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Now might be a good time for Annie to learn how to use her Ether abilities to fly. Or at least levitate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mauve Shirt View Post
    How is making her (more) angry at Coyote going to break her ties to the court?
    Also, yep, rage is at the surface.
    Yeah, but I was kind of hoping we've find out WHY he's so angry.

    Maybe that's coming.

  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    As much as Ysengrin worships Coyote, he learned to tolerate his man-made theory. After all, it does not become to accuse your god of being in error; so he suppresses his reaction. That Annie might believe so gives him outlet to express his suppressed rage at the concept. As such, his reaction is not to Annie, but to Coyote; it is just that he can't bring it to express such reaction to Coyote.

    You would normally think that Annie standing up to Coyote over the way Coyote treats Ysengrin would endear her to Ysengrin. And it probably did; just that his anger took over.

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Perfect example of what too much and too little respect looks like. Coyote is a cosmic force, and Annie takes him very lightly. However Ysengrin allows his respect to be an excuse for Coyote to treat him poorly.

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