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  1. - Top - End - #901
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Are you people forgetting that she was drawn to humanity once they showed up? I think "lonelieness" or "sense of belonging" to some extend can be attributed to her, at least. (And disappointment, for that matter.)
    Last edited by Domochevsky; 2012-11-15 at 03:58 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #902
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Domochevsky View Post
    Are you people forgetting that she was drawn to humanity once they showed up? I think "lonelieness" or "sense of belonging" to some extend can be attributed to her, at least. (And disappointment, for that matter.)
    Precisely.
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  3. - Top - End - #903
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    More interesting, sure, but also much more difficult to see turn out satisfactorily without retconning.
    Yeah. Probably.

    I just want more creepiness from GG.

    I guess Im a bit of a Hypocrite when I want this comic to be more (I spit the word and proceed to clean my mouth afterwards with soap): "Dark".

    I have been recently provided some of that with Coyote so Im sated for now, but i just want more conflict.

    More important and slightly bigger conflict (Again. I am sated for now).

    I was on the edge of quitting when I felt like the whole comic felt like a giant hug-fest and they where on the verge of holding hands and singing kumbayah.

    I wish Jones would be this completely alien thingy (Again I am a Hypocrite. Something I hate in Hometuck). Maybe possessing no emotion other then boredom to be placated or curiosity to explore.

    It just is then interesting that the people around her PROJECT what kind of person she is. Sort of like a human Companion cube.

  4. - Top - End - #904
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    I like that this is establishing Jones as a foil to Coyote.

    Jones cannot manipulate her body in any particular way, cannot even pluck a hair from her head. Coyote can split his body parts and give them properties and so on.

    Jones cannot feel emotion, or imagine things; Coyote is almost entirely about emotion.

    Jones is utterly and completely independent of humanity, despite her similar appearance and demeanour; Coyote claims that he is entirely the result of humanity's imagination and is incredibly alien in both appearance and personality.

    The thing I find most interesting, though, is that the Forest has Coyote as the leader, where Jones is solely and entirely in a subservient or advisory role.

    Also, I feel sorry for Dr whatshisface. Jones can never love him back. =C
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  5. - Top - End - #905
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Yeah, Coyote is kind of a prancing egotist, as well as immensely powerful, so it probably just seems natural to him that he be a leader wherever he goes. Kind of like Susanna Clarke's gentleman-with-the-thistle-down-hair, just as alien and powerful, and just as self absorbed.

    Contrast Jones. When Coyote talks about himself, he's weaving stories and spinning tales, accentuating his own grandeur (which is pretty big to begin with). When Jones speaks about herself, it's all simple statement of fact. It's an interesting reflection on their nature - as an etheric being and god, Coyote is myth and stories, embodied, while Jones, as whatever she is, just is.

  6. - Top - End - #906
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    So then only 1 question remains:

    Why is she bothering? We know she only mimics love and interest, but why is she bothering?

  7. - Top - End - #907
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    I suppose the only answer possible is, 'why not'? Absent purpose, an intelligent creature will furnish itself purpose.

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    So then only 1 question remains:

    Why is she bothering? We know she only mimics love and interest, but why is she bothering?
    I wondered that myself, and I would put forward that Jones is simply hiding in plain sight.

    Consider the implications of a being like Jones in our own world. She has not only seen the entirety of human history but the very beginnings of the Earth itself, and she remembers every single instant of her existence. Consider the impact a being like her would have on religion, science, philosophy, etc.

    She might simply want to exist unnoticed. Appearing as a young woman working at the Court helps facilitate that disguise.
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmarvho View Post
    I suppose the only answer possible is, 'why not'? Absent purpose, an intelligent creature will furnish itself purpose.
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    I spent my time arguing that just yesterday!

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    I spent my time arguing that just yesterday!
    But wanting to have a purpose is an emotional response in itself though since there is no logical reason to have one. So that idea doesn't mean she's emotionless.

    The only 'emotionless' beings I have seen working in fiction are certain AI's and robots that have a programmed purpose.
    Last edited by Shadowcaller; 2012-11-16 at 05:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Note that she says she can't form emotional connections - that isn't quite the same as not having emotions. So an emotional desire to find beings like herself is still feasible.

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Or, you know, people who suffer from APD. Or suffer brain injuries such that they're no longer able to cognitively respond with emotion.

    I think what it boils down to is how we define emotion. There are several models of emotion that psychologists debate over, but at the very least it seems they agree on a few key components of what an emotion involves. Reading from my dusty ol' general psych textbook, it uses the working definition of emotion being composed of "(1) a subjective conscious experience (the cognitive component) accompanied by (2) bodily arousal (The physiological component) and (3) characteristic overt expressions (The behavioral component)"

    So, let's break this down and see if Jones has all of these bits that make up emotion.

    Based on what Jones has told us, the subjective cognitive experience, the feelings, that humans have in them are missing in her experience. Much like some head trauma victims, she lacks the cognitive ability to interpret things in that manner.

    Likewise, any physiological response that indicates emotion is also missing. We've not seen her dilated pupils or sweat. We've never looked at her anatomy, but I imagine if we did we'd not see glands pumping out chemical signals, not see the heart rate increase or slow in beat, not see blood flush from organs to muscle. Indeed, given that she tells us she is not alive, I find it unlikely any of these reactions are happening.

    And as for behavioral response... Jones is well known for her lack of expression or display of any emotion whatsoever. Not even the involuntary ones.

    In effect, I believe Jones is telling the truth when she says she is without emotion. She doesn't seem to have anything that resembles what human psychologists would identify as emotion. What motivates her is beyond me, but lack of emotion or physical stimulus would suggest that it would be entirely different from what our animal brains interpret as emotion.

    Finally, her description of an inability to make emotional connections and that her responses were learned through mimicry and social observation fit the symptoms of a traditional sociopath.
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  13. - Top - End - #913
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    As for why she's doing things when she could just stand entirely still- even without emotion, I think that one would still have a sense of boredom.

    She's doing stuff because, well, there's stuff to do.
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  14. - Top - End - #914
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    Finally, her description of an inability to make emotional connections and that her responses were learned through mimicry and social observation fit the symptoms of a traditional sociopath.
    So Jones is a magical Dexter: Awesome.

    I am really satisfied she isn't another Data (Not that I dislike Data).

  15. - Top - End - #915
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Like I said earlier, she may claim to be this, but if she had no emotional connection at all, she wouldn't have been drawn to humans in the first place. She had to actively seek us out.
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  16. - Top - End - #916
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    So Jones is a magical Dexter: Awesome.

    I am really satisfied she isn't another Data (Not that I dislike Data).
    If we compare her to Dexter she is still wrong about not having emotions. There is a difference between having dulled emotions like Dexter and having no emotions like Jones is claiming.
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2012-11-16 at 07:36 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #917
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Looking at the comments on the main page, it seems I'm not the first to wonder how Jones would fare versus the Coyote tooth.

    However, I'm more curious what sort of industrial purposes she could be used for. That super-pinching alone must have some sort of potential application.
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  18. - Top - End - #918
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pheehelm View Post
    Looking at the comments on the main page, it seems I'm not the first to wonder how Jones would fare versus the Coyote tooth.

    However, I'm more curious what sort of industrial purposes she could be used for. That super-pinching alone must have some sort of potential application.
    I wonder if she could make metallic hydrogen.
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  19. - Top - End - #919
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcaller View Post
    The only 'emotionless' beings I have seen working in fiction are certain AI's and robots that have a programmed purpose.
    I still think Jones is a kind of observation-device, placed by some alien civilisation, i.e. Monolith 2.0
    It was stated that she is no robot, but maybe our robots are just too primitive and limited to match her.

    Regarding emotions: why would she need those ?
    There is no need for hunger, fear, love etc.

    I could see curiosity, so she goes to see interesting things and events.
    Same for her interest in humans, i.e. as supporting her "mission".

    Also, without spacetravel, she will not meet others of her kind.
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  20. - Top - End - #920
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by hajo View Post
    I still think Jones is a kind of observation-device, placed by some alien civilisation, i.e. Monolith 2.0
    It was stated that she is no robot, but maybe our robots are just too primitive and limited to match her.
    While I don't agree with your theory, that is a good point. She only knows robots as the sort she's seen on Earth, and she isn't much like them, so she says she isn't one.
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  21. - Top - End - #921
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmarvho View Post
    I suppose the only answer possible is, 'why not'? Absent purpose, an intelligent creature will furnish itself purpose.
    Why yes? What logical reason would an immortal, indestructible creature with no physical needs whatsoever, and claiming to have no psychological ones, seek out and aid short lived plains apes she happens to resemble very superficially?
    Making up a reason, if there is none, is itself an act of emotion.
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pheehelm View Post
    Looking at the comments on the main page, it seems I'm not the first to wonder how Jones would fare versus the Coyote tooth.
    Seeing as it could cut the very Earth, I wouldn't be surprised if it could injure Jones. Heck, it's starting to sound like Coyote's directly referring to Jones there (she's been around as long as the Earth has, after all, and I doubt he's talking literally about the tooth's ability to chop through dirt).
    Last edited by Mewtarthio; 2012-11-17 at 12:07 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #923
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    I hope she never has to use it. I like Jones. She is a chill wind that blows from the depths of time, haunting yet arresting.
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    I hope she never has to use it because Coyote is beginning to seem more evil than tricky. He has something planned, and nothing good can come with possessing his artifact.

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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mewtarthio View Post
    Seeing as it could cut the very Earth, I wouldn't be surprised if it could injure Jones. Heck, it's starting to sound like Coyote's directly referring to Jones there (she's been around as long as the Earth has, after all, and I doubt he's talking literally about the tooth's ability to chop through dirt).
    The one issue with that is Jones was not afraid of Coyote. At all. If she didn't fear his power, then it doesn't stand to reason that his tooth could harm her.
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  26. - Top - End - #926
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Unless she doesn't experience the sensation of fear. Which, given what she's told us, is very well possible.
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Luzahn View Post
    I hope she never has to use it because Coyote is beginning to seem more evil than tricky. He has something planned, and nothing good can come with possessing his artifact.
    Of course, both the court and the forest appear to be largely morally neutral-ish but have both been portrayed as ultimately headed by beings of repugnant moral character.
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  28. - Top - End - #928
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    I dunno if we've seen enough of the Headmaster to tell if he's personally repugnant moral character. Certain the Court's system is a bit disasteful and their previous leaders were of dubious moral quality, though.
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Candle Jack View Post
    The one issue with that is Jones was not afraid of Coyote. At all. If she didn't fear his power, then it doesn't stand to reason that his tooth could harm her.
    Annie didn't fear the Forest until...just now, probably. But she certainly knew the forest before hand. Or, parts of it. Ignorance is a dangerous thing.
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  30. - Top - End - #930
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    Default Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!

    Quote Originally Posted by Candle Jack View Post
    The one issue with that is Jones was not afraid of Coyote. At all. If she didn't fear his power, then it doesn't stand to reason that his tooth could harm her.
    Or maybe she just doesn't have a sense of self preservation. Just because nothing she knows about can harm her that doesn't mean she cares one way or the other about her continued existence. How could she, it's an emotional response.
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