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2012-07-20, 07:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
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2012-07-20, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Passholdt is indeed (as Brother Oni pointed out) the town where the spark that created the spark bug was experimenting with the bug, and eventually made a mistake and turned the entire population (possibly including himself - we have certainly yet to see him) into weird revenants. It has been mentioned off-hand by members of the order of the knights of jove as "bad business, that" several times, becoming a bit of a running joke by now.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2012-07-20, 09:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Yes more of the stuff I like! Even if I think the romance is forced (Aquilion you SO get me), I still enjoy the everything else.
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2012-07-20, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
I know exactly what you mean (but then, I have already expressed my issues with Tarvek's characterisation - this is just another part of it). However, in defence of the Foglios, for the time being I can accept that things are progressing quickly because of the high-stress environment they are immersed in. We shall see how the issue is handled when and if the siege ends.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2012-07-20, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Was the spy character in the room when the weasel went off for gil?
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2012-07-20, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2012-07-20, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- Somewhere...
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Yes, as far as we know Wooster wasn't there. But Wooster is a VERY good spy and Castle Wulfenbach may have those ventilation shafts that are big enough to crawl through which SO MANY secret bases seem to have, and without any barriers inside to keep them from being used by crawlers. IF Wooster were there, I don't expect Gil will stay imprisoned long.
Heck, with Boris on the job, I don't expect Gil to stay imprisoned long either.
(I have to admit, I am considerably relieved to see Boris being suspicious. His expression when Klaus said Gil had been Wasped didn't look very convinced. It's not entirely clear which way his suspicions lie, but this being Boris I think things will work out.)
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2012-07-20, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-07-20 at 08:07 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2012-07-20, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- On Paper
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Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Well Klaus's verison of events STILL involves the Sparkwasp.
So now we know that Gil left Paris less than a year ago, since that was apparently "Enough Time" for Klaus's timeline to work.
And I just realized the source of Boris's Question. This exchange, right here.
Agatha is the other, or close enough as far as the Wasps are concerned. We have Boris present (He is clearly visible a few panels later, so he witnessed the exchange). Gil is in a Spark-State trying to decipher the Very Expensive Paperweight Klaus had them build.
Agatha gives an order. She does so meekly, "Why don't you have a cup of tea while I fish out the notes", but it's still an order. Gil Disobeys.
According to the Baron's timeline, Gil is already wasped at this point, and should therefore be unable to refuse the command. It's not certain, Gil was in the Madness Place at the time, and Agatha wasn't being very commanding, but it's still there.
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2012-07-20, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Very interesting callback. Since Selnikov believes a spark in spark mode cannot resist a command, this provides evidence that Gil has not been wasped. However, Boris needs something better than a guess to prove his suspicions.
Edit: Also, I think Boris had received orders to transfer power to Gil in times of emergency, hence his declaration that Gil was a prince. I think the Baron may have sent a subliminal message to him at some point which indicates that now is the time to put Gil in charge. He may be see Klaus's sudden desire to lock Gil up as suspicious activity. In fact, the timeline he gave might be the subliminal message. He probably counted on Boris being able to put two and two together and find out that something was wrong.Last edited by random_guy; 2012-07-20 at 01:05 PM.
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2012-07-20, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
I agree. The relationship between Gil and Agatha grew organically on-screen. The one between Tarvek and Agatha was more complicated, because at first she was pretending to be someone else, and later because she was a prisoner and Tarvek was walking a line with Lucrezia. They never had a chance to be at ease and get to know each other. We saw Gil's fondness for Agatha grow, Tarvek apparently fell for her basically at first sight, which feels a bit more false and shallow by comparison.
It didn't help that the arc where we met him, Tavek seemed to switch between good guy and bad guy every few pages. Tarvek's destruction of Agatha's clanks might have been done for her own good, but at the time it seemed like a betrayal because he didn't even bother to explain why he had to do it. And he still helped Lucrezia with things he didn't have to, like giving her the Spark Wasp and putting the clank head onto Anveka's body. That arc could have done a better job if it wanted to show Tarvek as a viable love interest.
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2012-07-20, 10:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
I think that may actually have been the point. Tarvek has a longer path to travel, and more to fight through to win Agatha. For all the scary reputation as the Barons son, Gil is an almost paladin-level good guy. He didn't even build a decent death-ray until he REALLY needed one. The story doesn't need another straight up hero. It needs a conniving bastard struggling with the fact that his heart is in the right place. And both heroes fighting with the sickening suspicion that the other one really is worthy, and in ways he is not.
They really are a delightfully complimentary pair, and the lady would be well served to keep both. (hope, hope, hope)
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2012-07-21, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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2012-07-21, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Actually, it is so deferential that I wouldn't consider it an order at all. We know a big part of the Voice is its intensity. But thankfully, in the very next page, Gil goes to open the door and then Agatha gives a clear counter-order in her most imposing tone (a big no). A wasped creature in her thrall would have freezed at her words.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2012-07-21, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Last edited by slayerx; 2012-07-21 at 10:12 PM.
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2012-07-21, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Singapore
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
I'd almost managed to forgot that, yeah... but ultimately I still haven't totally gotten over it, because there's ultimately no avoiding the fact that many of Tarvek's actions there seem to have been based primarily around undermining Wulfenbach's empire without any regard for consequences.
But his destroying Agatha's clanks is the worst thing. The problem is this: Even if he did it to protect Agatha from Wulfenbach, she knew what she was getting into. She was choosing, deliberately, to sacrifice herself for the greater good -- and that choice was 100% valid and totally reasonable; if Tarvek hadn't stopped her, many people who are now dead would still be alive.
It's possible he did it out of love for her (though it's equally possible -- and I don't think the comic has ever made it clear -- that he did it out of personal ideological hatred for Wulfenbach's empire, which does include his own ambitions and pride.) But regardless of the reasons why he did it, he had absolutely no right to make that choice for her.
And nothing since then has ever presented it in a different light -- he didn't have some secret knowledge she didn't; both of them knew exactly what the implications were. She was making one of the most important decisions of her life, and he disagreed with her choice, so he bashed her upside the head and dragged her off to do things his way instead.
Unforgivable -- and I mean that quite literally -- it both breaks my suspension of disbelief and lowers my opinion of all the characters involved to see that Agatha has apparently either forgiven him (without ever talking to him about it! Without him even, you know, expressing contrition for it!) -- or just forgotten it because the writers changed their mind about what they wanted to do with his character -- or whatever.
But it just doesn't work. A lot of the rest of what he did I can understand, but deliberately taking away one of the most important decisions of Agatha's life? In a way that endangers the entire world? Disgusting.Last edited by Aquillion; 2012-07-21 at 10:52 PM.
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2012-07-22, 01:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Hungary
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Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
I can understand that he modified that message, as he did it to save Agatha's life. For good or bad intentions, but it ultimately resulted in a hope to save everything that the Heterodyne boys achieved.
The thing I can't forgive him is downloading the Other into Anevka. That's the thing that he really didn't have to do, and he clearly didn't do it for Agatha. He did it for his own scheming. He was switching between good and bad based on who controlled Agatha at the time, but in this case Agatha was not around at all. Nobody forced him to do that. This was a clear indication that he was (at that time at least) actually working for the Other. He may havelovedhad a crush on Agatha, as does he now, but that doesn't change the fact that he is an evil schemer who does everything to further his own plans.
Gil has none of this. He may be rash compared to Tarvek who can't think ahead of a plan and goes after his instinct instead. He is also the son of a ruthless dictator (who, unpopular as he is, saved Europe from the Other), and would probably ruin everything should he get into power because of his rashness (unless he decides to trust some of his wiser advisors). He is still a good guy who genuinely loves Agatha without any sneaky intentions.
It is a reason enough to root for Gil instead of Tarvek. For Agatha getting both of them? No, that won't do. Agatha just doesn't deserve Tarvek, especially if he also has Gil (though, to be fair, Gil does deserve someone wiser beside him).Guess what spell I cast before posting this message.
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2012-07-22, 02:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- The Valley of Salt Lake
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2012-07-22, 06:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
To be fair, a lot of what Tarvek did back then was inspired by his sense of justice, at least as much as any attraction to Agatha. We've seen recently -- and not so recently -- that while Tarvek is a schemer, he has a very strong ethical core. Abandoning Agatha to the fate Lucrezia had in mind for her flew so contrary to what Tarvek has revealed himself to be that he kind of had to throw himself into trying to bail her out.
It didn't help that the arc where we met him, Tavek seemed to switch between good guy and bad guy every few pages. Tarvek's destruction of Agatha's clanks might have been done for her own good, but at the time it seemed like a betrayal because he didn't even bother to explain why he had to do it. And he still helped Lucrezia with things he didn't have to, like giving her the Spark Wasp and putting the clank head onto Anveka's body. That arc could have done a better job if it wanted to show Tarvek as a viable love interest.
To put it succinctly, he did what he did because he didn't have any power to do anything else and make it permanently stick. Don't forget the Geisters. Tarvek had an "enemy" army encamped in his very halls and most of his people were fully subverted to the Other's service. If he tries to declare war on Lucrezia and support Agatha the way, say, Gill would have done, then he, Agatha, or both would have wound up dead. He had no power at all, so he played a submissive, helpful role while he tried to play out the string and gain an angle. It was literally all he could do. If he had a chance to put the other down and keep her down, I think he's proven since then that he would have taken it.
The only other thing he could have done is use the sparkwasp on Lucragatha. That is the move a true snake would have made, since it was the perfect solution to the problem, giving him absolute power over the person with absolute power. That would have allowed him the ability to dominate the other, fulfil the prophecy, and make himself the dominant force in all of Europe.
I think it speaks to Tarvek's character and ethics that this didn't even seem to occur to him.Last edited by Imgran; 2012-07-22 at 06:34 AM.
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2012-07-22, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Tarvek is not the Other. He doesn't have the proper voice. He could have tried with an artificial voice box like Anevka's, but it doesn't work that well on strong-willed people. See how Lady Vrin could resist Agatha's orders, despite Agatha's voice being the perfect command voice, simply because she knew Agatha wasn't the Other. Sure, it staggered her a bit, but it wouldn't be useful for actual control.
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2012-07-22, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- Somewhere...
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
It would be neatly ironic if all those readers who hate Tarvek now - can't stand him, think he's the weak link, want him dead - wind up in love with him and cheering for him to win by the end of the story.
Which is probably what will happen.
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2012-07-22, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
you're forgetting that Clankrezia's voice works perfectly -- as demonstrated by the Baron.
Who do you think built that voicebox? Don't you think he could build another?
The reason Vrin could resist (and that Von Pinn could as well) is that they knew that Agatha was not The Other. This would be Tarvek using his mastery of voice harmonics to FORCE the Other to give orders. If it was just abbout the voice harmonics, then Tarvek wouldn't need to bother with the sparkwasp -- he could have confused matters a great deal just by using a combination of the voicebox technology he devised for Clankrezia, and a technology with some resemblance to the sonovox.
From what we know now, taking over Lucrezia with the sparkwasp could have been very possible. Tarvek could have spring it on Lucragatha by complete ambush. He's not quite at the same level of master sneakster as Lucrezia, but he can win against her when he knows something she doesn't. The only risk is that Lucrezia could be spammed into another young girl via the beacon engine -- and if they did, that Lucrezia wouldn't have the right voice harmonics to do any damage.Last edited by Imgran; 2012-07-22 at 03:59 PM.
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2012-07-22, 05:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Imgran makes a very interesting point... What would happen if a Lucrecia got sparkwasped?
Nothing? Because she's already subject to her own will?
She gains some self-control? Because she hasn't had any up 'til now?
or - Her brain explodes from a cognitive feedback loop, like a speaker blasting straight into it's own microphone!Last edited by GaeasSon; 2012-07-22 at 05:11 PM. Reason: mis-spelling
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2012-07-22, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
She gives herself an order to disobey any orders she gives and has a mental 404: Brain Not Found.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
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2012-07-22, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Tarvek isn't ethical. He is willing to throw a stable empire (That just happens to be unpopular) into war because he wants to rule.
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2012-07-22, 06:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
And she is the Other, something that Tarvek isn't.
How the voicebox is tuned is probably not enough, I expect intonation to be important too. Not just imitating the voice, but also the accent, mannerism, and everything else that constitutes one person's unique way of speaking.Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!
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2012-07-22, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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- Therinos
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Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
That seems like an awful amount of preparation for a Spark (even a crazy-Genre Savvy one like Lucrezia), and besides, Anevka could tell revenants to "Sleep" and they would obey. Before she became Clancrezia.
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2012-07-22, 09:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
To me it didn't look like he had a sudden and shallow crush on Agatha in the Sturmhalten arc. It looked like he already knew her. Not only he sided with her immediately, he didn't bother making her underestimate him, as he apparently did with nearly everyone his whole life. It cant be just because he had a crush on her, he didn't survive this long by trusting every pretty face.
According to Othar's twitter, Tarvek will build the time-window machine, which doesn't allow you to go physically back in time, but to transfer your consciousness to your past body. So my theory is that Tarvek lived trough the whole destruction of Europa by the Other, went back in time and is now trying to prevent this future from happening. He already met Agatha , fell for her and failed to save her. It explains why he is so protective of her and why he is confident he knows her well enough to tell the difference between her and Lucrezia.
It also explains why he changed Agatha's message to claim that the Baron is the other, since the Baron would be controlled by the Other soon after.
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2012-07-22, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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- Chicago, IL
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Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
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2012-07-22, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- Somewhere...
Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"
Ah. But you are looking at it the wrong way. HE would be a better ruler than Klaus is. HE has a right to rule as the Storm King. And he has a DUTY to rule because he IS the Storm King. Every single thing Tarvek knows and believes tells him he HAS to depose Klaus - who as a mere Baron has no right to wield the power he does - and take over, building a BIGGER, BETTER, MORE STABLE AND PROSPEROUS Europa in which science and civilization will shine as it did under the First Storm King.
With that kind of belief system, it would be unethical NOT to try to take over.