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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    Didn't he blame both Tinka's state and the real Anevka's death on his father? I didn't find this part in the archive but I vaguely remember it.
    As I said, I'm at work and can't check, but IIRC he admitted to breaking Tinka in his efforts to build the Anevka clak. He did blame his father for almost killing his sister trying to download Lucrezia into her mind, but I'm unsure how that relates to his abilities as a spark.

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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c
    (and I'm sorry, but we know good enough engineers can follow spark's notes to reconstruct spark inventions - if Tarvek's best claim is that he can copy Van Rijk's designs, that isn't much of a claim).
    Er, it was stated directly in the comic that any Spark that got their hands on a Muse just ended up breaking it and learned jack all. Tarvek is the only Spark we know of who has been able to reverse engineer Van Rijn's designs to any degree. And while Tinka may be damaged, she's still largely functional (or was before the Gesters cut her head off).
    Last edited by Knight13; 2012-06-12 at 01:05 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight13 View Post
    Er, it was stated directly in the comic that any Spark that got their hands on a Muse just ended up breaking it and learned jack all. Tarvek is the only Spark we know of who has been able to reverse engineer Van Rijn's designs to any degree. And while Tinka may be damaged, she's still largely functional (or was before the Gesters cut her head off).
    Fair enough, but that wasn't the claim I was answering to, it was "he was the only one of them that was able to get one of those clanks back to even a partially functional state"

    If he has managed that at all - i.e. restore Tinka - it was only with access to the manual, and only off-page. When he tried to do it without the manual, he produced a better-than-average clank (Anevka) but terminally damaged Tinka in the process. He may be a tad less ham-fisted than the average spark, but he still admits that without help, Tinka will eventually shut down, and that there is nothing he can do to help. IIRC It is only hearing that the manual exists that he gains a measure of hope he'll be able to fix his own mistakes*.

    We also know that "any Spark that got their hands on a Muse just ended up breaking it and learned jack all" must be false, since Lucrezia got her hands on one of the muses and learned a lot, eventually loading the Kastle into the muse head while loading the muse brain into Von Pinn. I don't remember who said that in the comic (Tarvek, maybe?), but the statement is not to be trusted.

    Grey Wolf

    *At this point my memory is so fuzzy I'm not even sure if I'm quoting the comic or the book. So I'll state for the record that I consider the comic superior cannon, if one and the other disagree. Although I suspect that the Foglios think it the other way around, with the book being a revised version of the story - specially where Tarvek is concerned.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    We also know that "any Spark that got their hands on a Muse just ended up breaking it and learned jack all" must be false, since Lucrezia got her hands on one of the muses and learned a lot, eventually loading the Kastle into the muse head while loading the muse brain into Von Pinn. I don't remember who said that in the comic (Tarvek, maybe?), but the statement is not to be trusted.
    Lucrezia wasn't trying to mimic Van Rijin's work, she was trying to transfer minds between organic and clank bodies.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    Lucrezia wasn't trying to mimic Van Rijin's work, she was trying to transfer minds between organic and clank bodies.
    She still learned something, though, which was my point.

    If it was Tarvek that said that every other spark that messed with the muses broke them and learned nothing, he is either wrong or giving a self-serving lie (sure, I broke the muse, but so did every other spark, and at least I learned something!).

    If it was someone else, they were still mistaken about it - clearly a top level spark such as Lucrezia was able to mess around with a muse, learn something from it, and not break it, after a fashion. The muse-von Pinn is still considered the greatest of all their teachers by all the students in Castle Wulfenbach and the closest thing to a mother Tarvek and Gil ever had, so clearly her basic purpose (to be a teacher) was perfectly preserved. The muse-body was still very functional, even after being abandoned for years in the Kestle's secret chamber.

    So, to go back to my original point: we do not have any evidence that Tarvek is anywhere near as powerful a spark as Gil or Agatha (both considered amazing in that they broke through at an early age). Tarvek is not as weak as the sparks in the circus, but he isn't a top level spark, either, from what we have seen. And whatever his strengths, biology doesn't seem to be it, since he hasn't even considered saving Breen's head for future use, possibly because such thoughts are strongly discouraged in noble families.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-06-12 at 02:17 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    *At this point my memory is so fuzzy I'm not even sure if I'm quoting the comic or the book. So I'll state for the record that I consider the comic superior cannon, if one and the other disagree. Although I suspect that the Foglios think it the other way around, with the book being a revised version of the story - specially where Tarvek is concerned.
    I suspect you're right about which version the Fs would favor. The comic is written without the option of ever editing it as a whole. The book is their very first chance to fix things that normal writers would have had the luxury of revising prior to publication, on completing a first draft. Or second draft. Or third draft. I would not blame them at all for feeling this is a chance to actually approach the kind of control other artists take for granted. That said, even within your chosen "what's best canon" limits, in the comic itself Tinka's condition is commented on, and Tarvek states that it was his father who was involved in her current state. It's then *expanded* on in the novelization: his father could not resist taking Tinka apart. Tarvek had to put her back together from what was left after Aaronev Wilhelm got done with her.

    Now, no other known spark has ever managed to take a Van Rijn apart without breaking her, and there's no word of anyone at all managing to then fix one to the point of running at all. I'd say that the fact that Tarvek *without yet having the aid of Van Rijn's notes* had still gotten her up, running, and speaking at all, even badly, and was still working to figure out how to fully repair her, is pretty darned good. Because fixing something that's been broken beyond repair by everyone else's standards takes a pretty high degree of skill and understanding.

    For more points on Tarvek's skill level: he believes he's worked out a way to undo Lu's download into Agatha...and no one who's worked with him questions the plausibility of that. That task alone is likely to be even harder than the download was, and that took Lu years to design. He's worked out a vaccine to protect against the wasps. It may not work, but it's good enough that Gil was impressed, and Gil's not at all inclined to give Tarvek any brownie points he hasn't earned. He was a full contributor to the development of a life-support for Otilia/Von Pinn, and a full contributor to the eventual transfer. He appears to have been a full contributor to the re-transfer of the Kestle identity from the Otilia-head back to the main building. At no time has any spark working with him in any way seemed to see him as sloppy seconds in any sense.

    That doesn't mean he is necessarily the best at revivals. However, the situation with Anevka is complicated enough that straight revival is not likely to have ever been the core problem in any case. She was damaged by the attempt to download Lu into her brain: some form of damage to her brain functions themselves would at least seem to be the foundational problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    If it was Tarvek that said that every other spark that messed with the muses broke them and learned nothing, he is either wrong or giving a self-serving lie (sure, I broke the muse, but so did every other spark, and at least I learned something!).
    (snip)

    So, to go back to my original point: we do not have any evidence that Tarvek is anywhere near as powerful a spark as Gil or Agatha (both considered amazing in that they broke through at an early age). Tarvek is not as weak as the sparks in the circus, but he isn't a top level spark, either, from what we have seen. And whatever his strengths, biology doesn't seem to be it, since he hasn't even considered saving Breen's head for future use, possibly because such thoughts are strongly discouraged in noble families.

    Grey Wolf
    It's not Tarvek who says no one else has been able to do anything but break a Van Rijn. It's either footnote or Secret Blueprints, or similar word of God. No "lies," though possibly authorial evasion.

    As for how good? He's good enough to run with Gil and Agatha and have them treat him as a peer, and accept his expertise in areas he's specialized in and studied as being superior to their own knowledge. If he can impress Gil, then I think it's safe to believe he's impressive. And he *has* impressed Gil. (chuckle) Perhaps not with his ability to encrypt his notes well enough, but enough to make Gil stop and comment on the excellence of the work, and enough that Gil can't simply see through what Tarvek's doing.

    Frankly, I trust Gil and Agatha's apparent estimation of Tarvek as a Sparky Equal far more than I trust your evaluation. They're in-text and their reactions are going to be in keeping with what the Fs are trying to convey.
    Last edited by Stalkingheron; 2012-06-12 at 03:13 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #97
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    This is the source that says trying to study the Muses was mostly futile. It's the circus manager telling Agatha about how they found Moxana.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Now Tarvek knows how Gil feels all the time.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Aww. Those octopod weasels are wonderful.
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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Today's last panel.

    So who was saying the weasels aren't cute?
    Last edited by ShinyCap; 2012-06-13 at 04:22 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    They are cute. And now we know that Tarvek is not wasped. Or something really sinister is going on.
    Guess what spell I cast before posting this message.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Tarvek may not be wasped, but he's certainly now weaseled...

    Maybe if Weazilla had been in a better frame of mind, he'd've had a rather different problem with that one, too?
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  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    Was that reason "castle fatigue" by any chance?
    Yep. That was it.
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  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Hmm... Do you think this is a reaction to the wasp-proof formula (assuming Tarvek has used it on himself yet. If it isn't finished yet, he might not have), or do the weasels just recognize they're among their own kind ?


    (I take no credit for that one. Every other livejournal comment is making that joke.)

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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    By the way, is the site currently down for anyone else.
    It was for me this morning. I had to go to livejournal for my GG fix (thank you, Oracle Hunter, for your excellent first post that told me where to go!).

    Edit: Down for everyone website agrees, it is down:
    http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.c...iusonline.com/

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-06-13 at 08:56 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    I would like the "Weasels Love Tarvek" panel blown up, cleaned up, and turned into a wallpaper.

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  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Am I the only one having trouble getting to the comic site?
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Am I the only one having trouble getting to the comic site?
    Apparently not. It works for me, but very slowly.
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Am I the only one having trouble getting to the comic site?
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  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Remind anyone of the Jagers and Agatha?

    He schmeltz gooott.

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Yes, it is sucking right now but go to The Backup for your fix.
    Thanks!

    (looks)

    Aw, that's so CUTE...

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    ...SO cute.
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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    And that's the thing about Tarvek isn't it? He's really quite a gentle, sensitive soul. He's tough and sneaky because he has to be, but when he gets a chance to really be himself, he's got a real sentimental streak. He does nice things for people without needing to gain something from it. Like getting Violetta out of Sturmhalten for example.

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    As somebody mentioned on the Livejournal comments, the weasels recognise one of their own.

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    As somebody mentioned on the Livejournal comments, the weasels recognise one of their own.
    I was waiting for some to say that.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    I sense tarveks love shifting to a new target. Ahem. "Weasel girl and Tarvek, sitting in a tree! K-I-S-S-I-N-G! First come love, then comes marriage, then comes a baby in a baby carriage!"
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  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I sense tarveks love shifting to a new target. Ahem. "Weasel girl and Tarvek, sitting in a tree! K-I-S-S-I-N-G! First come love, then comes marriage, then comes a weasel in a baby carriage!"
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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I sense tarveks love shifting to a new target. Ahem. "Weasel girlGiant Weasel and Tarvek, sitting in a tree! K-I-S-S-I-N-G! First come love, then comes marriage, then comes a baby in a baby carriage!"
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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    If its fixed they can't have adorable weasel human hybrid children though!

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Girl Genius XIII: "Gott's Leedle Feesh in Trousers!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Othniel Edden View Post
    If its fixed they can't have adorable weasel human hybrid children though!
    They could adopt Ferretina.
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