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2012-12-09, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Because I'm not sure how many of these I'd be accidentally necroing, I decided to put these comments here.
I'd make the failure formula for Flows easier than (100-10*modifier+5*flow spent-5*flowist level)%.
Since flying takes a standard action: I presume can they float in place, just like other creatures with perfect maneuverability?
Gentle Touch:
In addition, she knocks her opponent back 5 feet per 1d6 damage dealt subject to the following constraints: for every size category larger than the flowist, the opponent is knocked back 10 fewer feet, and for every size category smaller than the opponent, the opponent is knocked back an addition 10 feet.
I like that Path of Mastery gives some class skills based on what Path you pick.
All meditations are available, right?
The amount of bonded allies and the changes in saves seem like quite a handful to keep track of, especially when multiclassing. @_@
Actually, the bonded allies plus the summoning prettymuch give it the Truenamer capstone right at level 2. That makes the class an incredible dip, as afterwards they could just take levels in classes with abilities of much higher power and still retain that capstone-like ability. It's pretty huge, so before I go on, I'd like to know if there are much more of such abilities in there? Particularly with huge range.
By definition adding more stuff to the Fighter makes it better than a normal Fighter, but it does not necessarily up its Tier (which I look for in Fixes, or lowering of its Tier if the official class equivalent's Tier is 1 or 2). I like Stand Strong, but Keep Fighting sounds detrimental, since it kicks in while you may not even be dead yet (between -1 and -9) or you might lose a magic item that is more expensive than the cost to resurrect you.
Shield Ally: do you mean no save, rather than no salvation? No salvation is pretty harsh!
Taunt: kind of vague and uses different rules from the normal Intimidate rules.
Hold the Position: is the +5 to AC instead of, or in addition to to the normal bonus from fighting defensively?
Overall, I don't think it goes up a Tier.* The first seven levels have nothing that really improves the Fighter's abilities other than straight numbers (and while Experienced Fighter does help and is good, straight numbers alone don't do it, and it's very dependant on feat choice). The last ten levels give some options that could be nifty, but need some more working out and better wording. Giving some abilities like those at earlier levels (but lesser versions of the same abilities, or move those abilities to earlier levels and give them upgrades you can choose) would certainly help.
*This is presuming the Fighter to be Tier 4-5. A Fighter can be Tier 4 with the right feat choice, but so can your Fighter for the same reasons. If you pick feats that make a Fighter character Tier 5, the same choices won't improve him to Tier 4 with the abilities you give the class. The ideas you have are good, but they need more working out and improvement. Expand on them a little more to be less basic and you're off in a good direction.
Y'know what the weird thing about ToB classes is? I'm always "yeah, ToB! Rock on!" about it, but on the other hand, they usually have so few real class abilities. I like the Kaijin Track and how you can basically go different monstrous ways and I'm hoping you'll expand upon things with more different kinds of Kaijin Abilities to select. That way it'll get fleshed out more like the Sentai, which I like best out of many ToB classes due in large part thanks to it having class abilities aplenty (but not an overwhelming amount, more like there is something at every level).
Inhuman Durability can get ridiculous, like DR 20/- at level 10 easily. Monstrous Roar's Intimidate bonus could easily be doubled with no harm done. Why does Monstrous Grasp require taking twice, while Monstrous Size does not require to be taken multiple times? I'd make Expendable Minions available after level 6, since it's basically like a kind of Leadership.
Have I added a Pathfinder tag? I think I added a Pathfinder tag. Or at least there is one or two Tiered Pathfinder classes. Either way, the HTC is open to Pathfinder classes!
Hmmm, first thing I notice is that a player will have to compromise: either be good at hitting with the repulsors, or have a lot of modifications on their armor. I mainly think this because the only way to have both is to have a high Dex modifier and an armor with a high armor bonus, but those usually have the lowest max Dex bonuses. Granted, those max Dex bonus limits are only for AC, but it'd mean wasting something you have. Unless there's ways to have both through the armor modifications? Through this class you can also get full plate for free at level 1, which is huge, though great if the party needs someone to take the hits. I have a feeling they'd Gestalt great with Crusader.
Wands may also be installed into the armor with special housings, and when installed, the wand no longer relies on its own charges, and instead draws power from the armor's battery supply.
Ahh, Armor Training, now that helps the first problem I saw. Though it doesn't help much at earlier levels, still.
Bonus Combat Feat: what counts as a Bonus Combat Feat?
Construct Armor: huh, I was first going to say making it an intelligent armor might be easier than making it a Construct. Replacing ability scores makes for easy high stats, making the class easily pretty MAD. One problem there might be is it having Int 0. Wouldn't that mean it couldn't move at all, due to being in a coma? Wouldn't it have to be Int -?
"Any suit of armor that is constructed as part of this class has a base hit point total equal to 5 hit points per Iron Man class level plus his Intelligence modifier for each level." --> Better wording might be "base hit point total equal to (5 + the Iron Man's Intelligence modifier) times his level".
...thanks to Construct Armor I think I now also know how I should make this one PrC I've been thinking about that I wanted to create for the PrC Contest a while back.
Modular Armor only ever applies to one armor, I take it? And the choice cannot be changed?
Extremis Armor: "profoundly" should probably be followed by "changed" or "affected". Also, since armors grant temporary hit points (effectively), which cannot be healed back, how does this interact with healing spells? In fact, since temporary hit points don't stack with one another, that's bad for any Iron Man who wants to get temporary hp from other sources. Perhaps make it into a kind of "buffer hp pool" of sorts instead? It would make it more complicated though, I suppose.
I'll do some commenting on Modifications later, if there is anything worth mentioning.
Haruspex:
Share Divination, I guess it allows stuff like sharing the "benefits" of a Detect Magic spell so that you can cover an area twice as big (or [insert number of allies] times as big)?
I knew you were about to do that and You knew he was about to do that are nifty. At first I thought "wait, does this allow basically taking a standard action as an immediate action?" Luckily, that isn't the case, because that would've been way powerful. You can basically ready nearly anything, for as far as I know, so it sounds to me like this is perfect for surprise round stuff or initiating a combat out of an ambush.
Just A Dream. Woah, god, that's the big stuff! I'd argue that this couldn't be used if the Haruspex is dead, but if that would be just a dream, that would be a bad argument. I could say it shouldn't be used then, but a level later and further such big things can become common easily. I'd think that the dream would influence the Haruspex' actions though, or at least his composure and how he speaks. Unless he has perfect emotional control and perfect memory of the dream he would most likely not be able to go through the same day up to a certain point, right? Either way, that's just what I think. It's most likely an ability very much up to DM scrutiny, if they'd even play the game at that level (I mean, below 15 it doesn't come in play, so it should be peachy). Also a good idea to limit it to 1/[period of time greater than a day].
Marked: how does a Haruspex Mark someone? It isn't mentioned if it requires an attack roll, what range it has, whether it requires line of sight or line of effect... As written it seems a Haruspex could go "hm, I want to mark the King of Arushabia" and do it. Only the reference to the Scry spell suggests that it works just like Scrying, but it doesn't outright state that it does.
Perfect Divinations: what divination spells have large XP costs attached to them? Or a casting time greater than 10 minutes? I know there are some that require a casting time of 1 or 10 minutes, which doesn't bother me that much, but I'm curious if there are spells with a far greater casting time. (Epic not included.)
Well of Knowledge seems like it should be (Sp) rather than (Ex), since you say spell resistance applies.
Lastly, and most importantly in fact, you never describe their spellcasting. Are they prepared or spontaneous? I am only presuming they know all spells on their list (if they are spontaneous that is), since there is no "spells known" table, and I know Int is their spellcasting stat since you mention it under "Abilities".
Soul Devourer:
There is a description for Ebon Blade, but no mention of what happens to it at level 20, while it shows on the table at that level.
I like how some invocations have a cooldown. Nitpick: the Dispel Magic Lesser Necromantic Invocation has a [ in front of it. Death's Messenger Least Invocation has a typo (life instead of lift).
I'd bold "Plague Essence Invocations" to stand out more as a header.
Gaze of the Vampire duplicating Charm Monster, isn't that too much at that level? That's the same level as the official Charm Person invocation.
Please bold titles of abilities. Many of them could use more explaining too. The Guard A, B, C, D things in the table suggest to me that you're basically playing a squad of guards, I guess? It's also lacking class skills. Is this meant to be a PC class or an NPC class?
Do you mean the lists of ToB disciplines?Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2012-12-09, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
If you don't mind... any of my good stuff that you can look at would be wonderful...
- The Windrunner-- all about speed and mobility
- The Beastman-- a wildshape barbarian, basically
- Paladin fix
- Godspeaker and Miracle Worker-- Cleric/Favored Soul replacements
- The Barbarian fix from this thread
- My Druid fix
- My wizard and sorcerer fixes from this thread
- The Savage-- sort of a savage monk, gaining powers from nature
- This Fighter fix
- The Legend
- This ranger/scout mashup
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2012-12-09, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Ah, no. The Guard skill does up to four different things, which are represented by A, B, C, D in the table. It's meant to be a PC class, and if you look at what all the abilities to you'll see why. A buff that grants, in total, +200 hitpoints and +20 AC is nasty. Bonus feats like those of the fighter, less so.
I'll bold the ability titles, of course.
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2012-12-09, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Are you going to do the Class Building contests, or should we suggest stuff we made there separately?
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
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2012-12-09, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Yeah... I kinda have stalled because of school picking up/lack of ideas.
That way it'll get fleshed out more like the Sentai, which I like best out of many ToB classes due in large part thanks to it having class abilities aplenty (but not an overwhelming amount, more like there is something at every level).
Inhuman Durability can get ridiculous, like DR 20/- at level 10 easily.
Monstrous Roar's Intimidate bonus could easily be doubled with no harm done. Why does Monstrous Grasp require taking twice, while Monstrous Size does not require to be taken multiple times?
I'd make Expendable Minions available after level 6, since it's basically like a kind of Leadership.
'sides. It's a heavily nerfed Leadership-type thing. I don't think it'll hurt much to have it a level early.Avatar by Ceika.
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2012-12-09, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-12-09, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Thanks for your time and your input. It's greatly appreaciated.
I will think about it and take another look at the homwbrew.
.
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2012-12-09, 09:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
First of all, thanks for the input! Also, the class is undergoing a major overhaul at the moment... kinda. I'll make a comment on this at the end.*
Well, that's just for external fusions (renamed meditations). You're not supposed to be able to do them early on easily. I'd be open to modifying the formula, though.
Right, right. Should I clarify this?
Fixed it, thanks. One instance of opponent should have been flowist. As for the explanation, it was inspired from a dream I had. If you're an anime fan (I'm sure this is in movies too), imagine one dude being so baddonkey he can send someone else flying just by touching them.
This seems to be the feature which needs the most revision.
Thank you, thank you.
At the moment, basically, yeah. They start knowing all internal, then get surface, then get external. However, I limited this in the new version. Speaking of which...
* I'm making several changes. There will be 3 base classes, 4 prestige classes, at least one new monster, 2 new races, a good few more fusions. It's a huge WIP right now... but I'm constantly working on it. I wonder if I should post it as-is to get feedback as I go or do the whole thing (or almost the whole thing) before posting it. Of the above stuff I have the 3 base classes, basically, ideas for all the PrC's (just need to write them up), same for the monster, have one race written up, need to write up the other.
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2012-12-09, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Modified Flowist level check to successfully use an external fusion. Add 1d20 + your Flowist level + twice your ability modifier against a DC of 21 + the amount of Flow used. That gives the same success rate, but is expressed in a simpler manner that is more consistent with the rest of the game.
Last edited by Garryl; 2012-12-09 at 09:29 PM.
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2012-12-10, 04:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Garryl's formula sounds like a good alteration and more naturally fitting into the existing rules.
Right, right. Should I clarify this?
Fixed it, thanks. One instance of opponent should have been flowist. As for the explanation, it was inspired from a dream I had. If you're an anime fan (I'm sure this is in movies too), imagine one dude being so baddonkey he can send someone else flying just by touching them.
This seems to be the feature which needs the most revision.
Otherwise the class could practically insta-kill bosses by standing in a place that puts the boss between them and a wall and punch them into the wall and deal double (triple?) the amount of normal damage. Larger creatures would also be easier to knock into a wall (though if I were to DM that, very large creatures could have a chance of knocking it down).
I'm making several changes. There will be 3 base classes, 4 prestige classes, at least one new monster, 2 new races, a good few more fusions. It's a huge WIP right now... but I'm constantly working on it. I wonder if I should post it as-is to get feedback as I go or do the whole thing (or almost the whole thing) before posting it. Of the above stuff I have the 3 base classes, basically, ideas for all the PrC's (just need to write them up), same for the monster, have one race written up, need to write up the other.Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2012-12-10, 07:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Thanks! The thought to do it that way never passed my mind.
Currently if you max out your Gentle Touch (it works like a fusion) you can do 3/4 your level in d6's and if the baddie is next to a wall and fails its saves an equal amount of d4's. So at level 10 7d6+7d4, an average of 42 damage if they fail their save, 32 if they make it by a bit, 24.5 if they make it by a good bit. Too strong for level 10?
I'll probably... wait until I have 3 more things done then put it up. But yeah, waiting with the tiering is totally fine (thanks for doing this btw). I need to finish up the third base class, add a couple fusions, make a monster and a PrC. That should be enough to work off of.
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2012-12-10, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Any more word on the Honour Guard? How would you suggest I cleared up the Guard skill in the table?
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2012-12-10, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Well, the telepathy and summoned distance are unlimited range, but other than eventually being able to do it multiple times per round, they don't get much else that makes them too deadly or broken. In the Base Class Challenge chat thread, the main concern was with the Vengeance ability which allowed them to basically auto-crit on anything that dropped a bonded ally, and another ability which allows them to be the point of origin for allies' spells, both of which I already nerfed a bit. I'm not opposed to revision and must admit that I didn't look at my creation from a dipping point of view. So would it be tier broken as is, based on how powerful it could make a dipper? I was shooting for maybe 3, but I guess it effectively becomes "tier=tier of most powerful ally."
Last edited by sengmeng; 2012-12-10 at 04:36 PM.
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2012-12-11, 05:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Hiya Morph, if you get the chance I would still be really interested to see what you made of the dimensional double.
OMFGWTF!!
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2012-12-11, 05:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Here's an updated list of tags on the tiered classes.
Horror: 8
Modern: 1
Oriental: 4
Sci-Fi: 1
Silly: 2
Steampunk: 2
Book: 0
Comic: 1
Historical: 1
Japan: 6
Original: 13
Television: 1
Video Game: 19
Arcane: 21
Binding: 2
Divine: 13
Incarnum: 4
Infusions: 1
Invoker: 4
Martial Adept: 18
Psionic: 3
Shadow: 1
Truenames: 1
Unique: 30
-Unique: 8
Vancian: 22
Buffer: 15
Crafter: 8
Debuffer: 10
Face: 41
Healer: 13
Magic: 53
Melee: 59
Moneymaker: 1
Ranged: 18
Sage: 17
Scout: 24
Tank: 10
Trapmonkey: 5
Big Read: 0
Expanded: 14
Fix: 4
Incomplete: 4
Roleplay: 1
Homebrew Fix Classes
Total Amount: 35Last edited by Temotei; 2012-12-11 at 05:48 AM.
Homebrew
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2012-12-11, 08:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Yes and no, obviously those could do with being up at the beginning of the thread, but I was actually referring to the small list of Tierings you did here.
All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.
My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
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2012-12-14, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
I'll submit my homebrew, the Hunter for consideration. It's a ranged ToB-style martial adept patterned somewhat off of the ranger.
If build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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2012-12-15, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
I would suggest at least renaming each of the Guard abilities to something else. One of them you can keep the Guard name for, but the others should have other names to make them more distinctive and thus less confusing for someone new to playing the class.
It's one of the next batch on the list.
Thanks, Temotei!
For as far as I can see, those have all already been added a while ago. Did I miss one?Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2012-12-15, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
I would like to submit my Dragon Ascendant for Tiering. Some believe it too powerful, others lacking. The goal was mid to upper Tier 3.
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2012-12-15, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-12-15, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
As Guarding is still one thing (as in you can't use the attack bonus one on one guy, the AC one on another), called them "Damage Guard," "Armour Guard," "Multi-Guard" and "Inspired Guard." Also, buffed Inspired Guard to give +2 at level 10, +4 at 15 and +6 at 20. Also gave him +1 to all three convos and K (Nobility) every odd level.
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2012-12-15, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.
My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
World Warper
Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC
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2012-12-16, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Haruspex:
First off one of the main reason for Shared Divination is for things like True Strike. It gives the Haruspex some use of a few of divination's self buffs that would really help him otherwise.
Yes I knew you were about to do that is pretty strong. I am actually a bit concerned about it in a gestalt but I don't think its that big of an issue.
Just a Dream. Yaaa that one is really good. I put it in mostly as a 1/week save game trick from Psionics. It personally feels like an ability an incredibly powerful diviner would have. Uncontrollable visions about his own death so he can avoid them.
Marked. Fair point its supposed to be within line of sight and line of effect. I will also note that it has verbal components. The point of the ability isn't so that you can mark a creature on the other side of the planet but if you walk up or see the king you could spend the full round action and scry him easier later that day or week. I also added a way to remove the mark.
Perfect Divinations: Legend Lore, Hindsight, Scrying, Divination, I am sure there are a couple more, most of them are out of combat so I figured this wouldn't overpower anything anyway.
Well of Knowledge should be SP.
Spellcasting. DOH! Okay I should of noticed that... They are spontaneously intelligence based casters I will add that. They cast like beguilers and dread necromancers essentially. I added that clause
Soul Devourer:
Right at level 20 you deal 2 negative levels per hit. Not sure how that wasn't in there.
I thought the charm person invocation duplicated charm monster not person. Thats changed now.
Thank you for the formatting issues.Last edited by Silva Stormrage; 2012-12-16 at 03:19 PM.
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2012-12-17, 05:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Letting you know that I've reposted my Sentai class, Morph. The old OP and reserved posts were getting snug.
So add updating the link to your plans.Avatar by Ceika.
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2012-12-17, 06:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-12-17, 07:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Have you checked the Fix classes?
I shall. Any major changes between this and the old thread? In the class, primarily.
Good to hear you're healing well.
In other news, my two oldest players asked me two days ago if I wanted to restart an old campaign, which was our longest-running and included tons of homebrew. Instead, we started up a new one, because after some thinking they decided they'd rather not revisit the old one and keep the old sheets the way they are for nostalgia value.
Instead, we started up this.
Why am I posting this here? Well, we'll be using tons of homebrew again, including some of the classes here (Destined Hero, Teleporter and Sentai), will be making use of the Xenoalchemist's grafts (which also feature in another campaign of ours) and many other things, so I thought some of you might be interested. If I have the time and will to do it, I may even put up a campaign journal about it... not sure though, last one didn't have that much reaction to it and much of the fun in writing is having it be read, so maybe I'm just trying to poll people's opinions here. :XHomebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2012-12-17, 07:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Avatar by Ceika.
Steam account. Add me to argue aboutphilosophywhatever!
Advertized Homebrew: Fire Emblem 4's Holy Blood as Bloodlines
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Using a different color of text for sarcasm is so original.
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2012-12-17, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
Okies, Honour Guard is finished, I think. With the exception of more Honour Paths, which are hardly going to screw with its tier.
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2012-12-17, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.
My homebrews Moloques! Sagacious Defender of the Forge, The Open Palm, Sacred Scourge, The Bastion
Co-Developer of the Mutant Powers Project:
World Warper
Telekineticist and ACFs, Feats, Shadow Hand PrC
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2012-12-17, 11:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium
My forum avatars appear to have decomposed in my absence. C'est la vie.Homebrewer's Signature
If you use any of my homebrew, or even if you just have a strong opinion on it, please let me know. Feedback is always useful.