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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    I'll toss my extended signature in here. Especially the "Every Archetype in Tier 3" part.

    Also, I'd suggest adding a inspiration=historical tag. I doubt I'm the only one who's tried to stat something from history.
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    Post Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by dspeyer View Post
    Also, I'd suggest adding a inspiration=historical tag. I doubt I'm the only one who's tried to stat something from history.
    Not a bad idea, but if you do decide to do this I'd like to point out that my Spartan base class is not historical whatsoever.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Giegue View Post
    This is awesome. Really awesome. GITPG has produced some wonderful homebrew and this is a nice way to organize them all.
    *snip*
    If you like, I can link it for you to see. It was intended as a Tier 1. Most likely you won't care about it, but I just thought I should mention it.
    Thanks!

    Shoot the link over in the thread, soldier!

    Quote Originally Posted by ideasmith View Post
    Beastmaster
    Berserker
    Crackerjack
    Dweomerpulse
    Hunter
    Moondancer
    Mystic
    Spellbinder
    Spelldancer
    Unfledged
    Weaponmaster

    Do you suggest reducing the number of feats? If so, how much? (Shall I copy this part of the post to the Crackerjack thread?)
    Looks like someone is in need of an Extended Homebrewer's Signature, maybe?

    I'd suggest making the feat progression maybe Fighter-like or less and limit them to feats that grant bonuses to skills (or feats that have such viable feats as prerequisites), with of course the Crackerjack still needing to qualify for the feats as normal. This allows him access to Dragontouched and Aberrant Blood and derivatives, among others, but still mainly focuses on the skills and leaves out all the Fighter feats, Wizard feats, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Because Hazuki is far too humble to ask you for it, may I request that you review The Traveller? It's one of my very favorite homebrew classes and I'd like to know where it stands.
    The class seemed very interesting at first look, but once I actually read over Auspices, it became clear it is a Tier 1 class, plain and simple, as it can get access to one of the three most powerful and versatile spell lists in existence. I'll still read over the rest of the class, see if it offers anything interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by dspeyer View Post
    I'll toss my extended signature in here. Especially the "Every Archetype in Tier 3" part.

    Also, I'd suggest adding a inspiration=historical tag. I doubt I'm the only one who's tried to stat something from history.
    The Tier 3 Archetypes of yours mainly fall below Tier 3, sadly. They offer mostly abilities that are too weak or focused or get a weak feat (such as Point Blank Shot). I like some of your maneuvers and think you've done well one some, but classes go a little harder it seems. The Village Priest turned out rather well though, and it took a little for me to decide which Tier it was, but I am inclined to agree with your assessment that it is Tier 3, largely due to being allowed access to Domains and having Advanced Learning.

    The Historical Tag suggestion is a pretty sound one, I have to admit! I'll add that one. I was thinking of also expanding the Role category of Tags a bit, including things like Utility (mainly out of combat stuff besides social stuff and crafting, though it could be used in combat as well, like teleportation, creation of stone walls, etc, but also mundane stuff, though I dun have examples for that right now), Debuffer (grant enemies penalties or negative conditions), Trapmonkey (has trapfinding or a focus on trapmaking), Scout (obvious role is obvious) and Librarian (at least a light focus on Knowledges). This to remove the Skillful Tag and perhaps change the Support Tag to the Buffer Tag to accompany the new Debuffer Tag. What do you all think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilpich View Post
    Not a bad idea, but if you do decide to do this I'd like to point out that my Spartan base class is not historical whatsoever.
    THAT. WAS. CLEAR!

    *kicks Vilpich into a pit of anti-magic fielded Black Tentacles that are on acid*


    Classes that have now been Tiered include the Exarch of the Emerald Shield and the Village Priest.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Time to get an extended signature, it seems.

    Anything we can do to make your work easier?
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Are you going in order of submission or what?
    Best homebrew:
    Grace-Gift - Truly Defensive base class, Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread livers, skins, etc.
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    For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Are you going in order of submission or what?
    Judging by the fact that I was the first post and yet one of the most recent additions, I seriously doubt it.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarian View Post
    Judging by the fact that I was the first post and yet one of the most recent additions, I seriously doubt it.
    Oh, good. I was a bit worried I had been overlooked.
    Best homebrew:
    Grace-Gift - Truly Defensive base class, Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread livers, skins, etc.
    Filk: 4000 Years(to live)
    Running: Ruceeglaelsktinag: "Justifiable Genocide", Contradiction in terms? IC OOC Active Map: None.
    For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    The class seemed very interesting at first look, but once I actually read over Auspices, it became clear it is a Tier 1 class, plain and simple, as it can get access to one of the three most powerful and versatile spell lists in existence. I'll still read over the rest of the class, see if it offers anything interesting.
    Do note that although they get access to the whole range of spells from a list they number per day they can cast is very limited and also uses the cleric casting mechanic. Not solid tier 1 material, although probably still in that category overall. I'd personally say borderline tier 1 and tier 3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Since I'm betting you didn't notice the Barrier Mage lurking in my extended sig...

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
    Time to get an extended signature, it seems.

    Anything we can do to make your work easier?
    Well, getting an Extended Homebrewer's Signature is a great start, for one, so you're technically helping a tiny bit already.

    Making my work easier... I dunno if that could be done, but pointing out great classes, suggesting Tags for new classes or classes already listed, suggesting Tiers or providing solid arguments for a change of Tiers of an already listed class are things I am very much hoping to see in this thread and I thank the people who have done a bit of that already.

    Other than that, I guess you can try help in making this work stay fun, because as long as it keeps that way, I'll keep doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Are you going in order of submission or what?
    Nope. I've done something similar to this before, where I DID go in order of submission, but it ended up feeling like a drag largely because of that and people complaining when I accidentally skipped someone. I'm still doing this primarily for myself and as a service to my players (both real life and PbP), with a secondary goal of helping provide a quick evaluation for DMs and players here, as well as giving homebrewers a bit of an idea on where their works stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Do note that although they get access to the whole range of spells from a list they number per day they can cast is very limited and also uses the cleric casting mechanic. Not solid tier 1 material, although probably still in that category overall. I'd personally say borderline tier 1 and tier 3.
    It highly depends on what spell list they choose. They have the spellcasting mechanic of a Tier 1 class and can get access to a spell list of their choice, in which case most players would go for the cleric, druid or sorcerer/wizard list, which are all Tier 1 classes (Tier 2 for the Sorcerer, but the spellcasting mechanic is more like the Wizard's, making it Tier 1). It doesn't matter if they get less spells, the point is that they get them, up to level 9.

    The class drops to Tier 3 if the spell list of a different class is chosen (Adept, Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Duskblade, Healer, Hexblade, Magewright, Warmage, etc) or if extensive amounts of cleric/druid/sorcerer/wizard spells are banned or nerfed, but the latter is also needed to bring Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes down to Tier 3, while the former entirely depends on player choice. I'll make note of that though, and put the class under Variable Tier.

    First though, I will review the class more to see how much they contribute to the class' versatility and power, see what Tier they would be if they did not have Auspices at all. What do you say?

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Mage-King View Post
    Since I'm betting you didn't notice the Barrier Mage lurking in my extended sig...

    I have 0 ranks in Search and Spot, obviously I will need a hand! I'll get to it all in due time, but "due time" can be a very long time if relatively unknown classes aren't brought to my attention, either by someone posting a link to them or someone who posts in this thread having the link to such a class in their signature or EHS.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2012-06-17 at 11:36 AM.
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Apparently right now the Tier list refuses to be updated at the moment, so I can't add in some of the requested classes.

    I will be adding more classes later including these, but later this week I will have an important exam, so studying is going to be my priority. In the meantime, keep the comments, suggestions and requests coming! Feel free to discuss Tiers, Tags and classes amongst yourselves as well.

    In the meantime, I'm glad that even people not posting here apparently really appreciate the effort!

    Quote Originally Posted by Demidos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Also, seeing the Grandmaster in your signature, I'd like you to know that I've Tiered it recently. Hope you don't mind too awfully.
    I saw that! My First thoughts: Someone likes my stuff!
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    In case it matters, I updated my submission post with the tags and tiers I would guess would be appropriate for both my submissions.
    Best homebrew:
    Grace-Gift - Truly Defensive base class, Falling Anvil Discipline - Loony Slapstick as Martial Art, Mepholk - Snuggly skunk-people. , Wing Dragon Masters of flight Comment HERE, Organ Undead Mega-Thread livers, skins, etc.
    Filk: 4000 Years(to live)
    Running: Ruceeglaelsktinag: "Justifiable Genocide", Contradiction in terms? IC OOC Active Map: None.
    For everything else see: Full list of Homebrew.
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    In case it matters, I updated my submission post with the tags and tiers I would guess would be appropriate for both my submissions.
    I'll be sure to take a look at the Guardian of Minds later then and review it. I'll wait until you've redone the Grace-Gift all proper.


    And now, answers to all people on the first page that I haven't Tiered yet (or have reviewed earlier in this thread):
    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    As above, so below. All my stuff's free for review/inclusion. I tried to keep my bloodlines tier-3ish. Arcane Engineer is almost certainly Tier 1. Scattered PrCs are scattered.
    Found your Arcane Engineer and my eyes nearly popped out. I think I will reserve it for when I got time and patience for a Big Read!

    Quote Originally Posted by Melayl View Post
    Feel Free to tier my one-and-only base class (in my sig), and any other stuff I happen to come up with in the future.
    I think the Beast Warrior could function much more easily if instead of making a new skill specifically for the class you either use a level check or a different skill (Concentration would seem logical, or maybe Autohypnosis if you want to keep to Wis?).

    Also, 2nd level Beast abilities cost 1-2 points, 4th level ones cost 3-4 and 6th level ones cost 4-5. However, the skills themselves don't mention which it is, so that needs to be clarified (or just simply make each ability have a cost equal to its level.

    Another problem is that they get 2 Beast abilities each level, but there aren't enough Beast abilities for them to take. From levels 7-10, 3rd level abilities are the highest level you have access to, but there are only 4 of them. In general I imagine most players would want to pick the highest level abilities available when leveling up, which would mean the class needs more than 8 different abilities for level 3 and level 4 abilities and more than 6 for the others. Some level 1 abilities might better fit as higher level ones instead, such as Hide From Notice. There are also very few abilities you can take more than once by the looks of it, which is a bit of a shame.

    Overall, the class is pretty solid it seems to me. It goes for the same party spot as a Totemist, but due to being unable to change Beast abilities as a Totemist changes soulmelds, this means they are more stuck in what they build for. Some abilities, such as Beast Form, seem pretty obvious for their versatility, which could boost it up to low- or mid-Tier 3 along with some of the other abilities, but then I saw that Beast Form grants enhancement bonuses rather than size bonuses. Remember that these do not stack with enhancement bonuses of items, even if those items remain while in Beast Form. (You don't actually mention what happens to items in Beast Form, so I figure you meant for the same thing to happen as during Wildshape, which means they meld into your form and become useless unless they are made to work with the ability, for which there are plenty).

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    What's that, another place to selfishly promote my Wizard? Why, I never!
    Considering it looks like it comes with its own new magic system (well, a revamp, but still), this'll be on the Big Read backburner until I got time and patience for it. Thanks for showing it to me though! I know you have some nifty homebrew to your name, but never saw that, nor do I often come across other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by TravelLog View Post
    Mine as well. :)
    DOVAHKIIN, DOVAHKIIN, NAAL OK ZIN LOS VAHRIIN
    WAH DEIN VOKUL MAHFAERAAK AHST VAAL
    AHRK FIN NOROK PAAL GRAAN, FOD NUST HON ZINDRO ZAAN
    DOVAHKIIN, FAH HIN KOGAAN MU DRAAL

    That is to say, much yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    I'll go ahead and throw mine up to (see the sig). Just don't go into the corner (tis scary).
    I've seen the Onmyoji before. Think I'll start on that soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    All my stuff is fair game for you to review... if it is done, at least.

    Just peruse the forums with the nice search function (haven't gotten around to making my sig all link filled, sorry).
    "If it is done" sounds like a given, though wise to mention! I should prod you to finish your Base Class Challenge entries more often.

    Anyways, I'll see if I can find some of yours if you don't list some of your works (either here or in your signature or in the EHS thread). Admittably though, I will have no idea what I am looking for and the times where I've only searched for someone's username or "[username] homebrew", I ended up with little. Google has found me more things, but even Google missed some things for me before, unless I had seen the thread before anyway. No search is full-proof it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    By the by, anything of mine that you can find is free and open.
    ^

    More seriously though, a Tiering/review/whatever is coming up for the Harrowed, I assure you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Othesemo View Post
    Feel free to go over what paltry homebrew I have to my name.
    Yeah, I saw you recently posted this class. The basic concept is relevant to my interests! It also looks like it could use some more PEACHing first.

    EVERYONE, GO PEACH THAT CLASS.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    I will join the agreement that you can tag my stuff... actually curious to see what you think.
    The Shield! I've seen that one before.

    Look at Me! should be specified that it doesn't make the target creature flat-footed against the Shield himself, considering the target is so focused on the Shield. Turtling shouldn't stack with itself if you don't make use of the counter attack (as in, the extra +4 each time and increasing the multiplier each time), just once is plenty enough. Or limit it to one extra time every 10 levels rather than every 5, so that at level 20 you get a +12 bonus and a x4 multiplier rather than +20 and x6.

    Overall, it's pretty good and kicks the Knight in the face as it steps over him to stand atop at a higher Tier level. I'd say it is Tier 4, but likely high up in it. Dunno if it might be enough to really count as a borderliner, but we can always see what others think of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromancer999 View Post
    Free tier evaluation? Sure:

    *snip*
    Pyromancer
    Getting right to the one that matters. I think it's a very solid class, but I'll need to check again what it does with its Ember Points and what it can do against fire resistance/immunity. If both those are in order, I think it can go harass the Botanimorphist in Tier 4.


    And on that note, I think I can now give another answer to Ernir's earlier question:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
    Anything we can do to make your work easier?
    This week I will have an exam, as well as the next week, both just one, but I will want to focus more on that and less on this. There are two things y'all can do for me in the meantime. As such:

    REQUEST

    1. Keep this thread alive.
    2. Go check and PEACH Othesemo's Channeler! It looks like a great class to me with a quick skim, but won't have time to fully review it. It is sorely in need of PEACHing though, so go give it to him!
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2012-06-18 at 04:00 AM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    It highly depends on what spell list they choose. They have the spellcasting mechanic of a Tier 1 class and can get access to a spell list of their choice, in which case most players would go for the cleric, druid or sorcerer/wizard list, which are all Tier 1 classes (Tier 2 for the Sorcerer, but the spellcasting mechanic is more like the Wizard's, making it Tier 1). It doesn't matter if they get less spells, the point is that they get them, up to level 9.

    The class drops to Tier 3 if the spell list of a different class is chosen (Adept, Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Duskblade, Healer, Hexblade, Magewright, Warmage, etc) or if extensive amounts of cleric/druid/sorcerer/wizard spells are banned or nerfed, but the latter is also needed to bring Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes down to Tier 3, while the former entirely depends on player choice. I'll make note of that though, and put the class under Variable Tier.

    First though, I will review the class more to see how much they contribute to the class' versatility and power, see what Tier they would be if they did not have Auspices at all. What do you say?
    But of course, I was simply reminding you not to dismiss the class to tier one offhand. I'd also bet that our personal definitions of tiers vary very slightly. Cool class though.
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    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    I'm gonna back track a bit and give you the classes I'd rather give priority. Though I'd still like all my classes Tier'd up, these are the ones I'd actually really care about:

    Labyrinth Knight v2, Necromancer, Tendersoul AND Pureheart Variant, Stylist, and Eternal Knight.
    Perhaps my new Godsblade as well.

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post

    The Shield! I've seen that one before.

    Look at Me! should be specified that it doesn't make the target creature flat-footed against the Shield himself, considering the target is so focused on the Shield. Turtling shouldn't stack with itself if you don't make use of the counter attack (as in, the extra +4 each time and increasing the multiplier each time), just once is plenty enough. Or limit it to one extra time every 10 levels rather than every 5, so that at level 20 you get a +12 bonus and a x4 multiplier rather than +20 and x6.

    Overall, it's pretty good and kicks the Knight in the face as it steps over him to stand atop at a higher Tier level. I'd say it is Tier 4, but likely high up in it. Dunno if it might be enough to really count as a borderliner, but we can always see what others think of it.
    well on, it is that way as they are focused on hiiting the shield(a rather difficult proposition) but a good idea.
    and the thing for turteling was that it is a melee focused class, with a medium BAB... but a fair point again. It is packed to bursting with random nice things. it could lose some damage potential... but perchance 8th and 16th as damage buffs, so the full damage is seen through levels people will play more? then it could progress in epic at 24th, 32nd and so on...

    but yeah, I wanted a real tank. not a pansy McHero fantasy who is hopelessly idealistic. Though as is, the majority of the class is just giving stuff you could get with items(short of magic immunity and look at me!), I could see it as T4... would adding a small infusion progression bump it a tier? like the artificer with a more constrained list and making con the casting stat?
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

    my home brew. you should PEACH them...
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I'll be sure to take a look at the Guardian of Minds later then and review it. I'll wait until you've redone the Grace-Gift all proper.
    Sounds good. One clarification on the Guardian of Minds that I only noticed recently (long after the thread was locked), was that ALL the fear immunity/bonus stuff is extended to include magical fear when under the effects of Moral Champion.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    I had this wonderful long post detailing all the tags for the wizard, and how they applied. Then the forum ate it. So...

    [Arcane], [Unique], [Books], [Buffer], [Debuffer], [Crafter], [Healer], [Sage], I think.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    I AM aware that the Harrowed still needs major revisions, by the by. Still working on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Alright people, this is going to be my last post here until Thursday night, so any posts I haven't yet replied to or adressed otherwise will wait until then.


    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    well on, it is that way as they are focused on hiiting the shield(a rather difficult proposition) but a good idea.
    and the thing for turteling was that it is a melee focused class, with a medium BAB... but a fair point again. It is packed to bursting with random nice things. it could lose some damage potential... but perchance 8th and 16th as damage buffs, so the full damage is seen through levels people will play more? then it could progress in epic at 24th, 32nd and so on...

    but yeah, I wanted a real tank. not a pansy McHero fantasy who is hopelessly idealistic. Though as is, the majority of the class is just giving stuff you could get with items(short of magic immunity and look at me!), I could see it as T4... would adding a small infusion progression bump it a tier? like the artificer with a more constrained list and making con the casting stat?
    Adding in a lesser Infusion progression would certainly help it, yeah. Perhaps a stunted progression, that starts at level 4, gives you 2nd-level infusions at level 7, 3rd-level ones at 11th and 4th-level ones at 15th, but never grants 5th- or 6th-level infusions? That, coupled with cutting out a few unfitting ones and perhaps creating a handful of your own adds a lot of extra customizability and versatility to the class, which would indeed bump it up to Tier 3.


    So, I Tiered a bunch of other classes earlier, mainly classes I've had brushes with in the past but also a bunch of requested ones (some others will follow at the end of the week), so here is the Tiering I made for them. I'd like some comments and suggestions for them as well, as I may have forgotten some Tags or small abilities that change the Tiering possibly.



    Tier 1:
    Golden Alchemist [Unique, Face, Magic, Moneymaker]

    Tier 2:
    Blue Mage [Video Game, Arcane, Vancian, Magic, Ranged]
    Blue Mage [Video Game, Magic, Melee]
    Soulweaver [Horror, Face, Healer, Magic]

    High Tier 3:
    Planeswalker [Arcane, Vancian, Face, Healer, Magic, Sage, Scout]
    Teleporter [Arcane, Vancian, Face, Magic]

    Tier 3:
    Companion [Arcane, Vancian, Face, Magic, Sage, Scout]
    Gambler [Original, Buffer, Debuffer, Face]
    Librarian [Arcane, Divine, Martial Adept, Sage]
    Lord of the Uttercold [Japan, Arcane, Vancian, Face, Magic, Melee]
    Overdrive Knight [Video Game, Face, Magic, Melee, Expanded]

    Tier 4:
    Shield [Melee, Tank]
    Pyromancer [Face, Healer, Magic, Ranged]

    Tier 5:
    Farmer [Silly, Historical, Melee]

    Variable Tier:
    Traveller [Original, Arcane, Divine, Face, Sage]
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    The Traveller is a Variable Tier class because it’s casting mechanic is effectively like the cleric’s in practice and they can choose what class’ spell list they have access to. Thus, they can choose the Cleric, Druid or Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, which would make them Tier 1. Any other class’ spell list that includes spells up to level 9 will make the class a Tier 3. Choosing a spell list that only goes up to level 4, 5 or 6 makes this class Tier 4.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2012-06-20 at 11:29 AM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Just one Tier request

    The Wordsmith

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Hmm...while a majority of my Pyromancer class is setting things aflame(), I'd personally put it at tier 3, or borderline tier 3-4, because while what it does best involves fire, it can also heal and put itself on the front lines for a little while if need be. So, while its focus is damaging stuff with fire, it can do a few other things as well, albeit not as well as the classes that focus on that stuff. Still, in the end, I trust your judgmentmand just wanted to put out my opinion on the Pyromancer's tier placement.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    If you ever have the time, I'd be interested to see where you think my Mythic Warrior class falls (I was shooting for a T3 Fighter, but I suspect it might fall into T4). Link is in sig.
    Wolfen Houndog - The World in Revolt (4e)
    The Mythic Warrior, a 3.5 base class that severs limbs and sunders armor
    The Nameless One, converted to 3.5

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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    Looks like someone is in need of an Extended Homebrewer's Signature, maybe?
    Thank you for the suggestion. Done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I'd suggest making the feat progression maybe Fighter-like or less and limit
    Done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    them to feats that grant bonuses to skills (or feats that have such viable feats as prerequisites), with of course the Crackerjack still needing to qualify for the feats as normal. This allows him access to Dragontouched and Aberrant Blood and derivatives, among others, but still mainly focuses on the skills and leaves out all the Fighter feats, Wizard feats, etc.
    Limiting the feats to skill-related would either make work for the DM (if I left it to the DM to decide which feats were skill-related) or leave odd gaps (because a source I don’t have which the DM uses has skill-related feats). For example, by the wording you suggest (“feats that grant bonuses to skills (or feats that have such viable feats as prerequisites)”), Track wouldn’t be a Crackerjack bonus feat.
    Last edited by ideasmith; 2012-06-19 at 07:29 AM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    While I currently do not have any posted homebrews myself, I greatly respect and value this idea and will honor it by assisting in not letting it die. Additionally, once I have some well PEACH'd homebrew, I'll be sure to follow those before me and sub(shamelessly plug)mit it.

    Either way, I shall also look for base classes for you, and hope not to get repeats that have already been posted.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    But of course, I was simply reminding you not to dismiss the class to tier one offhand. I'd also bet that our personal definitions of tiers vary very slightly. Cool class though.
    Good thing in the end I didn't, coming back to review the class fully, eh? One should never dismiss something easily like such, though I will if it is plainly badly made or the presentation sucks (for instance, if the whole class is bolded, has no table and is one giant merged block of text, to put it extremely).

    I mainly try to stick to the "official" definition, so to say, hence why I often also compare classes to official ones and where those stand on the Tier list. Incarnum, for instance, is Borderline 3-4 if done well (Incarnate, Totemist), while ToB is generally Tier 3 and most spellcasting and psionics is Tier 3 and up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madara View Post
    Just one Tier request

    The Wordsmith

    Yes, it is based on one of the most fun games ever
    Since it is a very new class, I will wait a while with Tiering it, so that you have time to get it reviewed and get suggestions to change it, update it, add to it, subtract from it and so on. The concept is a very cool one though, just like the game it comes from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromancer999 View Post
    Hmm...while a majority of my Pyromancer class is setting things aflame(), I'd personally put it at tier 3, or borderline tier 3-4, because while what it does best involves fire, it can also heal and put itself on the front lines for a little while if need be. So, while its focus is damaging stuff with fire, it can do a few other things as well, albeit not as well as the classes that focus on that stuff. Still, in the end, I trust your judgmentmand just wanted to put out my opinion on the Pyromancer's tier placement.
    It is a decent healer too, yeah, but healing isn't that big of a deal in 3.5 and damage is easy to do well with nearly all classes of Tier 4 and up. It can go into melee, but the abilities it gets for that seem to be more abilities that are useful to make sure you don't become a target if you accidentally end up in melee, not an incentive to actually go into melee. The feature that adds fire damage to a weapon also seems like it would be much better on a ranged weapon, especially since you're supposed to keep Dex your secondary high stat and Str is dump-worthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ideasmith View Post
    Limiting the feats to skill-related would either make work for the DM (if I left it to the DM to decide which feats were skill-related) or leave odd gaps (because a source I don’t have which the DM uses has skill-related feats). For example, by the wording you suggest (“feats that grant bonuses to skills (or feats that have such viable feats as prerequisites)”), Track wouldn’t be a Crackerjack bonus feat.
    Hmmm, that's a good point. The problem with making all feats accessible though, is that you open up for cheese that will bump it up to Tier 2 in a heartbeat, putting the class all over the place. A different wording than the one I suggested previously might be much better though, so that'd it'd include feats like Track. (Although Track is way too easily reduced to a railroading tool, so that might be a bad example.)

    Quote Originally Posted by thereaper View Post
    If you ever have the time, I'd be interested to see where you think my Mythic Warrior class falls (I was shooting for a T3 Fighter, but I suspect it might fall into T4). Link is in sig.
    It falls in Tier 4 territory pretty clearly. The abilities it gets at low-level are pretty weak, aside from Rage (which it can do more often than a Barbarian right off the bat, which is a good thing, but rather invalidates the entire Barbarian), which made me think it might end up falling into low Tier 4, relying mostly on Rage to pull it up. Dispelling Strike is good though, while Dismember can be overpowered, instantly getting rid of up to three worn magic items (ring, glove, bracer) and a held one, which might even completely invalidate them since two-handed fighting is the most common style in DnD. Furthermore, since "limb" is a loose definition, the ability might even allow the cutting off of heads, which in most cases is an instant kill (though since you have Behead as a capstone, one could infer you at least don't intend for the cutting off of heads with Dismember). The Ignore Force ability is likewise very powerful and might be better to instead be a dispel check like dispelling strike as a free action during movement, with perhaps allowing the expenditure of additional adrenaline to grant a large bonus on the dispel check (+6 or +8 or so). Overall, the class seems to have mainly some low bonuses to things with a few incredibly powerful abilities, making it hard to see the intended balance point had you not stated you mean to go for Tier 3. As a result, you instead end up with a Tier 4 with a few abilities that wouldn't look bad on a Tier 2.


    Other classes to look over are currently on my to-do list, though it will be put on hold tomorrow evening through next Wednesday morning, as I'll be near-completely unavailable during that time.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2012-06-21 at 01:06 PM.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    It is a decent healer too, yeah, but healing isn't that big of a deal in 3.5 and damage is easy to do well with nearly all classes of Tier 4 and up. It can go into melee, but the abilities it gets for that seem to be more abilities that are useful to make sure you don't become a target if you accidentally end up in melee, not an incentive to actually go into melee. The feature that adds fire damage to a weapon also seems like it would be much better on a ranged weapon, especially since you're supposed to keep Dex your secondary high stat and Str is dump-worthy.
    True, it doesn't actually do those things as well as other classes. But here's the difference between tier 3 and tier 4:

    Tier 4: I'm awesome at this one thing!
    Tier 3: I'm awesome at this one thing!....plus I can do a couple other things semi-decently

    Hence why I made the case for it being a tier 3 or tier 3-4 borderline.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromancer999 View Post
    True, it doesn't actually do those things as well as other classes. But here's the difference between tier 3 and tier 4:

    Tier 4: I'm awesome at this one thing!
    Tier 3: I'm awesome at this one thing!....plus I can do a couple other things semi-decently

    Hence why I made the case for it being a tier 3 or tier 3-4 borderline.
    Tier 4 can also be "I'm pretty good at these few things!" hence why I ended up putting it under Tier 4. Of course, you are more versed with the class as it is your own, so you likely know better ways to get the most out of it, which would up the effective Tier for it.

    Admittably, I was comparing it with other Tier 4 classes I've already put up before, amongst which was my Botanimorphist, which I've ended up concluding is actually more fit for Tier 5 as-is, mainly because it sorely needs an update that I neglected to give it right after that contest was over (which would make it a capable healer and add much-needed versatility to the class, so it wouldn't need to rely on just its Bulbling).


    Also, I've looked over some classes, including Jarian's Ascetic and was thinking... originally I hadn't really considered how many "Fix" classes there are (which the Ascetic sorta falls under for the Monk prettymuch). Since I'd actually rather keep Fixes seperate from other classes, what does everyone think of me putting up Tiers for Fix classes seperately from the rest below the other Tiered classes? That way I'd likely end up including more Fix classes than I would under the current idea (which was mainly for original concept classes). Of course, these Fix Class Tiers would be limited to Fixes that actually increase the Tier of the class they aim to fix (or lower it in case of Tier 1-2 classes).

    Thoughts?
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post

    Thoughts?
    That sounds good. It would probably help with the organization, especially once there are more classes in this Compendium. Right now, it isn't too hard to look through them all and figure out which ones are fixes, but it'll be more difficult later.
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    Default Re: Morph Bark's Homebrew Tier Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    +Also, I've looked over some classes, including Jarian's Ascetic and was thinking... originally I hadn't really considered how many "Fix" classes there are (which the Ascetic sorta falls under for the Monk prettymuch). Since I'd actually rather keep Fixes seperate from other classes, what does everyone think of me putting up Tiers for Fix classes seperately from the rest below the other Tiered classes? That way I'd likely end up including more Fix classes than I would under the current idea (which was mainly for original concept classes). Of course, these Fix Class Tiers would be limited to Fixes that actually increase the Tier of the class they aim to fix (or lower it in case of Tier 1-2 classes).

    Thoughts?
    I am in favor of this.
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