Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cipherthe3vil's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ლಠ益
    Gender
    Female

    Default The Relentless Sorceress (Class)


    The following class is
    Tier: Cipher.
    (In other words, to hell with balance as you know it)
    Relentless Sorceress



    You ever feel like sorcerers were gimped? I did...
    Who says a Sorcerer can't be studious, even religious, about her inborn ability to do magic?
    By all accounts they should be the ones who should rule the magical world, not the bloody Wizards, the arcane wannabees. They had to learn their craft, you were born with it.
    But what happens when your born with it... But capitalize on your connection to magic as you learn, and develop, like the impostor "Wizards" do?

    The Relentless Sorceress. Her relentless pursuit of enhancing her magical nature has lead her to new heights, finding and exploiting any trick she can to bring out the true magic inside her.
    Her magic comes from emotion, and personality, So she looked to the bard. Charismatic half-breeds gifted with a small amount of magic. Yet with this small magical connection their able to perform decent magic. So what of the Sorcererss, who's force of personality binds the arcane? What if she were to use the bard's tricks for herself?

    The Relentless Sorceress uses what she can to better herself.


    The Relentless Sorceress.



    {table=head]{colsp=6}Table: The Relentless Sorceress |{colsp=10} Spells per Day(week)
    Level|Base Attack|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features |0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Bonus Feat, Familiar, Implement|4|4||||||||

    2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Carnal Knowledge|5|5||||||||

    3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Bonus Feat|6|6|4|||||||

    4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Carnal Knowledge|7|7|5|||||||

    5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Rapid Metamagic, Implement|8|8|6|4||||||

    6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Bonus Feat, Carnal Knowledge|9|9|7|5||||||

    7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Spellbook|10|10|8|6|4|||||

    8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Carnal Knowledge|11|11|9|7|5|||||

    9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Bonus Feat|12|12|10|8|6|4||||

    10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Carnal Knowledge, Implement|13|13|11|9|7|5||||

    11th|+5|+3|+3|+7||14|14|12|10|8|6|4|||

    12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Bonus Feat, Carnal Knowledge|15|15|13|11|9|7|5|||

    13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8||16|16|14|12|10|8|6|4||

    14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9|Carnal Knowledge|17|17|15|13|11|9|7|5||

    15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9|Bonus Feat, Implement|18|18|16|14|12|10|8|6|4|

    16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Carnal Knowledge|19|19|17|15|13|11|9|7|5|

    17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10||20|20|18|16|14|12|10|8|6|4

    18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Bonus Feat, Carnal Knowledge|20|20|19|17|15|13|11|9|7|5

    19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||20|20|20|18|16|14|12|10|8|7

    20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Carnal Knowledge, Implement, Metamagician|20|20|20|19|17|15|13|11|9|8

    [/table]
    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: 1d4

    Class Skills:
    Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Forgery, Gather Information, Heal, Knowledge, Perform, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, and two chosen interaction skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate.
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Weapons and Armor Proficiency:
    Relentless Sorceresses are not proficient with any armor, shield, or any weapon but simple weapons.

    Spellcasting:
    The Relentless Sorceress casts spells using her Charisma, her force of personality to inflict her will upon the world, she gets a number of spells per week as listed on the table plus additional spells per day for having a high charisma score- that is to say, they add their entire charisma modifier to the spells per week. Unless otherwise listed, a spell's DC is equal to the Sorceress's caster level + 10 + Cha Mod.
    Spells per Day and Spells per Week are used interchangeably for this class, they refer to the same pool of spells slots that as you will read, are recovered in full only once a week but can be recovered partially or individually at any time.

    A Relentless Sorceress at first level must choose a type of Perform skill. The Sorceress must use this perform skill for twenty minutes per spell level she wishes to replenish. There must be at least one sentient creature to witness the performance, it is undetermined why this must be. This creature cannot be the sorceress's familiar.
    This replenishing can only be done once a week.
    To regain spells during the day, the Relentless Sorceress must use her performance for ten minutes per spell, per spell level. Spells gained in this manner are gained one at a time.
    Time is one aspect of it, but every interval, the Sorceress must make a perform check equal to the spell level +10. If she fails, she must repeat the interval and gets a cumulative +2 to her next check.

    {table=head]{colsp=11}Spells Known
    Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|4|3||||||||

    2nd|5|3||||||||

    3rd|5|4|2|||||||

    4th|6|4|3|||||||

    5th|6|5|3|2||||||

    6th|7|5|4|3||||||

    7th|7|6|4|3|2|||||

    8th|8|6|5|4|3|||||

    9th|8|6|5|4|3|2||||

    10th|9|6|6|5|4|3||||

    11th|9|6|6|5|4|3|2|||

    12th|10|6|6|5|5|4|3|||

    13th|10|6|6|5|5|4|3|2||

    14th|10|6|6|5|5|5|4|3||

    15th|10|6|6|5|5|5|4|3|2|

    16th|10|6|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|

    17th|10|6|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|2

    18th|10|6|6|5|5|5|4|4|4|3

    19th|10|6|6|5|5|5|4|4|4|4

    20th|10|6|6|5|5|5|4|4|4|4

    [/table]

    Bonus Feats:
    The Relentless Sorceress gets bonus feats at each given level. These feats can either be Metamagic feats, or feats pertaining to her Performance and/or Perform skill.

    Familiar:
    The sorceress gets a familiar, as the standard sorcerer or wizard does.
    The familiar gives no penalties when it is killed, and you can acquire a new one as normal or resurrect your dead one like you would a normal creature.
    Its your implement that houses your real life force, not some bonded critter...

    Implement:
    The Sorceress at first level chooses a type of implement. She spends a week with a Mentor sorceress to craft her implement.
    Her implement is an item through which she can direct power, she can use her implement as a medium to perform all Somatic spells and use it as a replacement to a Focus, and through it she eschews material components of 10gp or less in cost.

    Spells stored in an Implement count as Prepared spells, you can prepare them at any time you would recover a new spell per day, instead giving it to the implement if it was used in the performance.
    Stored spells cast through the implement do not use one of your spells per day, and can be cast as a swift action.
    You can only store one spell of the highest spell level you can cast, the number you can store within the limits of the implements total storage capacity doubles each spell level lower then your highest.
    At every Implement level, you can store an additional spell in the implement.
    At twentieth level, in addition to gaining a fifth stored spell, you can cast spells stored in your implement spontaneously by using one of your own spells per day even if you've already expended the stored spell.

    Implements as said, count as prepared spells. When she chooses her stored spells, they need not be spells she knows but can be copied from an item, or taken from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

    Implements are limited by the maximum spell level you can cast.

    If your Implement is stolen, you are under the effects of the Insanity spell, no save, until it is returned to you. If you simply set it down somewhere, you have no effect. But if someone actually takes it with the intent of keeping it for themselves or for someone other then you, the effect kicks in.
    Whenever Insanity would have you attack someone, you instead babble incoherently while your senses are dislodged and you Scry on your implement.
    Your implement houses much of your innate arcane power, if it is destroyed you lose all your spellcasting and must find another Relentless Sorceress and team up to craft a new one, and you take damage equal to 4 your HD, which can kill you if you have no or a negative constitution modifier.
    Crafting an implement costs 100gp x Caster Level. Only one implement can exist for one Sorceress.


    The Implement cannot be sundered in combat, *but can be disarmed. *You take a bonus to the disarm check equal to your class levels when trying to avoid being disarmed. * The Orb cannot be disarmed, *but it can be sundered with the same bonus to avoiding the damage.
    The implement has hit points equal to your own, *and a hardness equal to your charisma, *+2 every Implement level shown on the table.

    There are four types of implements.

    • Wand:

    Your implement is a wand. Your wand can be used to store a single spell at first level. It is easily concealable, and easy to use.
    The wand can be used as a basic ranged weapon (Range increment of 40ft) that uses your charisma instead of dexterity. It deals 1d6 damage/2 class levels, of one basic element chosen at its creation (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire). You can chose to forgo elemental damage for the wand at any time to fire a bolt of pure arcane energy that deals only d4 damage instead, but can't be resisted by elemental resistances or immunities. When using a wand, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity for casting spells when threatened.
    • Staff:

    Your implement is a Staff. Your Staff can be used to store a single spell at first level, and in addition adds +1 to the save DCs of your spells cast through it.
    It is hard to hide and almost always needs to be carried out and in hand.
    The Staff can can be used to perform an at-will attack, but is a standard action with a ranged attack (Range increment 60ft) roll using your charisma in stead of dexterity, and It deals 1d10 damage/3 class levels, or in melee to replace strength with charisma. The damage is of one basic element chosen at its creation (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire). You can chose to forgo elemental damage for the staff at any time to fire a bolt of pure arcane energy that deals only d6 damage instead, but can't be resisted by elemental resistances or immunities.
    The staff can also be used as a Quarterstaff to do melee damage, it has twice the hardness and HP of the other implements.
    • Orb:

    Your implement is an Orb. Your orb can shrink its size to suit your will (to the size of a ping-pong ball, or as large as a basketball), and can remain in a fixed position in the air around you, and controlled by your thoughts to move it as a free action in any way you desire (Including telling it to remain in a fixed location, such as always an inch in front of your forehead or something).
    It can be used to store a single spell at first level, it is very easy to conceal when shrunk. It cannot deal damage itself, it remains in place around you but softly so and cannot be used itself to deal damage unless you actually grab it and whack someone with it (as an improvised weapon).
    An orb amplifies the damage of damaging spells, increasing your caster level for them to the next beneficial level between one and five, greater then that and it merely does its best (+5). A Magic Missile spell at level one for example would have a +2 caster level so you get a second missile. If there is no next beneficial level, it has no effect. (Such as if your already level 15 and are casting a Fireball, which only goes up to 15).
    • Tomb (Or scroll):

    A Tomb or Scroll isn't especially hard or easy to conceal, and its quite normal in general. It is a book or scroll personal to the Sorceress, and it can be used to store two spells at first level, and an additional two whenever it would gain one new one. A Tomb can be used to store two spells of your highest level, rather then one, and an additional two on every other spell level.
    Your Tomb and your Spellbook can be the same item.
    • Familiar:

    Your familiar IS you implement. It follows all normal rules for familiar, but gets damage reduction x/- where x is your class levels +5, and has HP equal to your own instead of half.
    You can cast any spell you can use through your familiar at range, capitalizing on your enhanced arcane bond. You can always communicate telepathically with your familiar, see what it sees, hear what it hears, feel what it feels, and so on.
    As a full around action, you can possess your familiar while your familiar enters your body and does its best to protect it while you use its body. You can access its special abilities including supernatural, extraordinary, or spell-like abilities, but you lose your own spell-like, supernatural, or extraordinary abilities. A Drow would lose her Darkvision, and darkness abilities for example, unless the familiar also has them.



    Here are the full list of effects for each new Implement level:
    I (1st):
    Store one spell per day. Ignore 10gp material components. Use to replace any focus. Special: Whatever the implement's type provides.
    II (5nd):
    Store two spells per day. Ignore 20gp material components. Ignore 5% of XP costs.
    III (10rd):
    Store four spells per day. Ignore 40gp material components. Ignore 15% of XP costs.
    IV (15th):
    Store eight spells per day. Ignore 80gp material components. Ignore 25% XP costs.
    V (20th):
    Store sixteen spells per day. Ignore 160gp material components. Ignore 50% XP costs.

    At every Implement level, you can chose to give your Implement a Trait.
    Traits:

    Cloaked: Your implement is transparent, and fairly hard to notice. enemies take a -5 when trying to sunder or disarm it. It takes a Spot Check equal to your caster levels +10 to see the implement unless you are actively wielding it in-hand.
    >> Invisible:
    Your implement can become visible or invisible as a free action. When invisible, and you aren't actively using the implement, others cannot attack it directly if they do not know where it is. If wielding it in-hand, its easy to see where it is though they take a -10 to any sunder or disarm checks. Must have taken Cloaked to get this Trait.
    Recall:
    You can summon your Implement to your hand as a move-action. You can't recall it if it is in someone else's hands, or if it was taken with the intent to steal.
    >> Stored: You can store your Implement in an extradimensional space, you can retrieve it as with Recall by a Move Action to reach into thin air and pull it back to you. Must have taken Recall to get this Trait.
    Enriched:
    You can ignore an extra 10gp of material components, per Implement level(s).
    >> Bountiful: You ignore 50% an items material component's cost. If it is less then or equal to the amount of gold you can ignore after reducing it by 50%, you ignore it as normal.
    Vigorous: You ignore an extra 15% XP.
    >> Boundless: You ignore an extra 50% XP cost. Must have taken Vigorous twice previously.
    Durable:
    Your implement is more durable, gaining +10 Hardness and +10HP.
    >> Invincible: Your implement cannot be damaged. If it is subject to an overwhelming effect, it is teleported out of the way. Such as if it is being crushed between two Iron Walls or some such, it will teleport to the closest safe location. You need to take Durable twice before selecting this trait.
    Spell-Storing: You can cast a spell on the Implement and it will store it for release when desired as a move-action. You can store one spell, +1 more spell every time you reselect this trait.
    Marked: You always know the general direction your Implement is in.
    >> Scrying: You can always scry on your Implement, Seeing as though there was an invisible eye centered on the Implement allowing you to see normally as you would in all directions, looking around, hearing, smelling. The eye can move within 5ft of the Implement, allowing you to move it around and check on the condition of the implement.
    >>>> Vengeful: You can cast spells through your implement even at range, allowing you to reap vengeance on anyone who would steal your implement.
    Seeking: Staff or wand only. The implement's attack has a bonus to its attacks equal to your class levels instead of your normal BaB. a 20th level caster with the Staff would have a +20 to attack, the same as a Fighter would get with it's attack. But the fighter would get three other attacks, the Sorceress does not.
    >>>> Relentless: Staff or wand only. The implement's attack has a bonus equal to that a Fighter of your level would have, and allows you to make consecutive attacks with high enough bonuses just as a fighter. A 20th level Sorceress would make four attacks with a full attack at a +20/15/10/5. This only applies to the implement's basic attacks as shown in its entry, not spells cast through the implement.
    Must have taken Seeking to get this trait. Both these traits' given bonuses are supernatural in nature and do not function in antimagic fields.


    Carnal Knowledge:
    You delve deep into the intrigues of your performance, drawing on raw talent and potential to change your body's physique and alter your personality with newfound knowledge that lights your personality and the impression you give people.
    At every Carnal Knowledge level, you gain +1 bonus to charisma, considered untyped, and can choose one spell you know, that spell is now a spell-like ability usable a number of times per day equal to three + your charisma modifier.
    You remove that spell from your Spells Known and cannot replace it thereafter.
    The spell must have been able to be cast three levels prior before it becomes eligible to become Spell-Like. Thus you cannot select a 9th level spell to be Spell-like until 20th level. A 2nd level character would be able to select a 0 level spell for her Carnal Knowledge.
    Every five class levels, starting at fifth, you can choose one spell like ability to make it an at-will supernatural ability, This supernatural ability cannot be the the same spell you only just made Spell-Like at this level.
    Spell-Like and Supernatural abilities through this always retain their XP costs, but not the material costs. However, they can benefit from being cast through your Implement.

    Spellbook:
    The Soceress gets the ability to use a spellbook. She can use this to craft her own custom spells and save them, and once a week when she does her replenishing performances she can trade one spell from the spell book with one she currently knows.
    She can compare spellbooks with any other spellbook or scroll, and add spells listed on them to the spellbook.
    When a sorceress customizes her own spells, she can choose to spend extra gold in place of XP when crafting them.
    Spellbook benefits from the same Traits added to the Implement. However, it is always considered to have the Stored trait.

    Rapid Metamagic:
    At this level, the Sorceress gets the rapid metamagic feat for free, unless she happens to already have it in which case she instead reduces metamagic cost by 1. Rapid Metamagic can be taken once, at a feat cost as normal, in the future to get the same -1 effect.

    Metamagician:
    The Sorceress can apply one metamagic feat to a spell she casts completely free, no level raising or casting time increase, nothing. Just pure metamagic effect. Other metamagics can be added, but they are not effected by this.



    ACF:
    Dual Wielder:
    You can forgo the Familiar class feature in order to gain a second implement. Your Traits apply to both.
    You chose which implement to channel through when you cast your spell, not both.
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2013-04-29 at 08:28 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Welknair's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Surrounded by Books
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress

    Immediate impressions:

    1. SWEET BOCCOB SPELL SLOTS. That is a LOT of spell slots.

    2. One Simple Weapon? You DO realize that Unarmed is simple, right? So they aren't proficient with their own fists? That isn't even being trained in unarmed combat, it is the simple knowledge of how to quickly extend your curled hand. I don't see any reason they shouldn't be given "All Simple Weapons". Given the spells and poor BAB, they're going to stay away from weapons on their own.

    3. Familiar: I tend to be against resurrecting companions since players tend to use them as cheap trap-finding.

    4. Implements: I'd suggest giving the blurb about how Storing works before listing the options. Additionally, it seems that your Implements fall into the same trap as Core Spellbooks. If you lose yours, you're screwed. No DM will cause a Sorcerer to lose their Impelement unless they are obviously out to get them. Since they are like to never lose them, the bonuses from them can be assumed to be always present. +1 to all spell DCs is veeery nice. Also Orb's CL boost is a bit vague and no matter how you word it, extremely tempting. CL boosts are rare.

    5. Spellbook: What. Whhhaaat. Massively more spells than the Wizard, actual Class Features, AND they now can PREPARE SPELLS? Albeit only once a week, but still. I was going to say that this is still only strong Tier 2 with massive blastability, but this pushes it over.

    6. Spells per week. It wasn't until re-reading stuff for Spellbook that I realized you had a per-week casting system. I don't think that was emphasized enough. Every Spellcasting class I have ever seen uses a per-day system, or the rare encounter system (Spellshaping). A week system.. Actually doing the math, you're going to have a LOT less spells at your disposal than a Wizard. You'll be able to blast a lot, but.. Carnal Knowledge helps a bit, but they're still going to be highly limited in their choices. A per-week system tends to run into problems where either A) There isn't enough to go around, or B) NOVA - Unloading an entire week's worth of spells in one encounter. I feel this could be much better handled, perhaps by having your spell likes, then a few preparable spells per day? It would certainly be a lot simpler.

    7. Carnal Knowledge: +1 to Charisma every other level. ... ... I could see that as problematic.

    In short: Kind of hard to gauge versatility and power at this point with combination of At-Wills, Per-weeks, and Spell-likes. Still, these guys are going to have some wild blasting potential, including massively high DCs.

    Edit: Rapid Metamagic. Be very wary of reductions in Spell Slot adjustments. They get this, and every spell they ever cast will be Enlarged or Widened.
    Last edited by Welknair; 2012-06-11 at 12:16 AM.
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

    Fourthland: A Game of Abstraction
    Quotes
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

    Extended Homebrewer's Signature

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Morph Bark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Freljord

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    I think it is important to note that innate bonuses can never go beyond +5. That means the Cha increase caps at level 10. However, that makes it more balanced at level 20. At level 10 though, that can make a whole lot of difference. Perhaps make the increase happen every 4 levels, starting at 4th and allowing them to choose other stats as well, for those who might be inclined to not focus Cha for some really strange reason yeah I'm not really making a case there since casters always just focus their casting stat primarily first and foremost.
    Strawberries = awesome avatarist.
    Current Projects:
    EMPIRE! -- A Community World-Building Game full of role-playing and strategy
    Analyzing RPG Systems
    Spoiler
    Show
    Campaign setting! Homebrew Tier Compendium! NPCs!
    FanFiction.net | DeviantART | Homebrewer's Signature

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cipherthe3vil's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ლಠ益
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark View Post
    I think it is important to note that innate bonuses can never go beyond +5. That means the Cha increase caps at level 10. However, that makes it more balanced at level 20. At level 10 though, that can make a whole lot of difference. Perhaps make the increase happen every 4 levels, starting at 4th and allowing them to choose other stats as well, for those who might be inclined to not focus Cha for some really strange reason yeah I'm not really making a case there since casters always just focus their casting stat primarily first and foremost.
    Ah... I tried to find something on Innate bonuses, but I couldn't find anything...
    So I went with the obvious answer and just went with Innate is Innate. Just a natural bonus as if you just are.


    I answered Welknair's stuff, If it isn't fixed; I don't want to fix it. Otherwise I fixed, corrected, or what'av ye.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Welknair's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Surrounded by Books
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Nova. No player I have ever encountered would have the foresight and self-control to properly ration their spells. The five-minute adventuring day becomes the five-minute adventuring week. Players will abuse and exploit this to no end. If they ever know a boss fight is coming up, the Sorceress will be sure to refill just before it, then unload an ungodly amount of high-level spells in the first few rounds. This is THE Nova class. Pretty much all the other nitpicks I made are secondary to this. Currently, I'd view the class as unplayable.
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

    Fourthland: A Game of Abstraction
    Quotes
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

    Extended Homebrewer's Signature

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cipherthe3vil's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ლಠ益
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    Nova. No player I have ever encountered would have the foresight and self-control to properly ration their spells. The five-minute adventuring day becomes the five-minute adventuring week. Players will abuse and exploit this to no end. If they ever know a boss fight is coming up, the Sorceress will be sure to refill just before it, then unload an ungodly amount of high-level spells in the first few rounds. This is THE Nova class. Pretty much all the other nitpicks I made are secondary to this. Currently, I'd view the class as unplayable.
    No, it sounds like your players are unplayable.
    I know no one who would do something like that. With Daily spellcasting, maybe, sometimes there's just only one encounter that day. But for a whole week?
    I'd rocks fall their butts so hard.

    They don't have much more high level spells then a sorcerer does.
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2012-06-11 at 04:50 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Welknair's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Surrounded by Books
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    No, it sounds like your players are unplayable.
    I know no one who would do something like that. With Daily spellcasting, maybe, sometimes there's just only one encounter that day. But for a whole week?
    I'd rocks fall their butts so hard.

    They don't have much more high level spells then a sorcerer does.
    I'm not trying to insult you, I'm trying to give my honest opinion on this project. I fully agree that anyone attempting anything close to the five-minute adventuring week ought to be slapped soundly upside the head.

    Okay, let's look at this from another direction.

    Level six Sorcerer, versus level six Relentless Sorceress. Looking at only spell-slot, per week (Multiplying Sorcerer's by 7):

    Sorcerer: 42/42/35/21
    Sorceress: 9/9/7/5

    Assuming an ideal player, capable of perfectly rationing spells, they have nowhere near enough spells to go around for a week of continuous adventuring. The Sorceress has three Spell-likes to draw upon, as well as an at-will from their Implement. This means that they have something to do, but still can't rely upon their Slots for most of the obstacles they encounter.

    For spell-slots in a per-week system, either there won't be enough to keep the user covered the whole week, or there will be so many that in any circumstance that the user may actual lose, they'll call upon their massive resevoir. I fail to see what is gained through this system.

    I'm not trying to act high-and-mighty, I'm trying to help you improve your class. If you don't want my advice, simply say so and I'll stop posting on your threads.
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

    Fourthland: A Game of Abstraction
    Quotes
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

    Extended Homebrewer's Signature

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cipherthe3vil's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ლಠ益
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    I'm not trying to insult you, I'm trying to give my honest opinion on this project. I fully agree that anyone attempting anything close to the five-minute adventuring week ought to be slapped soundly upside the head.
    I didn't feel insulted :/ ?
    I'm told its hard to tell at times...
    Okay, let's look at this from another direction.

    Level six Sorcerer, versus level six Relentless Sorceress. Looking at only spell-slot, per week (Multiplying Sorcerer's by 7):

    Sorcerer: 42/42/35/21
    Sorceress: 9/9/7/5

    Assuming an ideal player, capable of perfectly rationing spells, they have nowhere near enough spells to go around for a week of continuous adventuring. The Sorceress has three Spell-likes to draw upon, as well as an at-will from their Implement. This means that they have something to do, but still can't rely upon their Slots for most of the obstacles they encounter.

    For spell-slots in a per-week system, either there won't be enough to keep the user covered the whole week, or there will be so many that in any circumstance that the user may actual lose, they'll call upon their massive resevoir. I fail to see what is gained through this system.
    The Sorceress also has spells from the implement. More still if its the Tome implement.
    They can also regenerate spells at any time. One 1st level spell takes 10 minutes. a 2nd takes 20, 3rd 30, and so on, to recover using a perform skill.
    This part I think could use a touch of polishing, even tweaking, but I'm still thinking on it.
    I'm not trying to act high-and-mighty, I'm trying to help you improve your class. If you don't want my advice, simply say so and I'll stop posting on your threads.
    I wasn't thinking that :/
    I appreciate the stuff.
    (Sometimes more then others, but still)

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Welknair's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Surrounded by Books
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    I didn't feel insulted :/ ?
    I'm told its hard to tell at times...
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    I wasn't thinking that :/
    I appreciate the stuff.
    (Sometimes more then others, but still)
    Sorry, I must have misunderstood your tone. The internet tends to do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    The Sorceress also has spells from the implement. More still if its the Tome implement.
    They can also regenerate spells at any time. One 1st level spell takes 10 minutes. a 2nd takes 20, 3rd 30, and so on, to recover using a perform skill.
    This part I think could use a touch of polishing, even tweaking, but I'm still thinking on it.
    Ah, totally missed that bit. I assume each "Interval" is ten minutes? That certainly helps the deficiency while not boosting the nova-potential to ridiculous levels. /approve
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

    Fourthland: A Game of Abstraction
    Quotes
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

    Extended Homebrewer's Signature

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cipherthe3vil's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ლಠ益
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    Sorry, I must have misunderstood your tone. The internet tends to do that.

    Ah, totally missed that bit. I assume each "Interval" is ten minutes? That certainly helps the deficiency while not boosting the nova-potential to ridiculous levels. /approve
    I tend to sound negative fairly often.
    But for me to truly be negative is far less common.


    Yay ^_^

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Welknair's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Surrounded by Books
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    It's worth noting that I do still believe that this class has some over-powered-problems. For this to be on par with the majority of classes, you'd want to tone things down a fair deal.
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

    Fourthland: A Game of Abstraction
    Quotes
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

    Extended Homebrewer's Signature

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Roc Ness's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    I would have to agree that the spells per week basis would be a problem, not just because players will abuse it, but also because DMs general are highly watchful of anything that could be a problem in the player's hands.

    For example, the Candle of Invocation. As a player, I can vow never to abuse it, but that isn't going to convince any DM to let me have one. I really enjoy homebrew, and I wanted to give this class a spin, however, right now at its current level of potential player mayhem, I don't think any DM is going to blink twice before outright disallowing.

    May I suggest either implementing a cooldown period between castings of high level spells, or perhaps simply return to the "per-day" basis for spellcasting, albeit at a very low rate of spells per day?
    HOHO! GUESS WHO JUST FINISHED HIGHSCHOOL!


    Pokedex #999: Roc Ness
    Avvie by Serpentine.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Welknair's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Surrounded by Books
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roc Ness View Post
    I would have to agree that the spells per week basis would be a problem, not just because players will abuse it, but also because DMs general are highly watchful of anything that could be a problem in the player's hands.

    For example, the Candle of Invocation. As a player, I can vow never to abuse it, but that isn't going to convince any DM to let me have one. I really enjoy homebrew, and I wanted to give this class a spin, however, right now at its current level of potential player mayhem, I don't think any DM is going to blink twice before outright disallowing.

    May I suggest either implementing a cooldown period between castings of high level spells, or perhaps simply return to the "per-day" basis for spellcasting, albeit at a very low rate of spells per day?
    ^^^
    This man, he speaks sense. Heed his words.
    Avatar by Araveugnitsuga

    Fourthland: A Game of Abstraction
    Quotes
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Daverin View Post
    Welknair, you are like... some living avatar of win. Who's made of win. And wields win as if it were but a toy. Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Virdish
    Welknair you are a god among men. Thank you for creating a playground for the completely insane.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morph Bark
    There have also been times where I was jealous of your ingenuity and skills.

    Extended Homebrewer's Signature

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cipherthe3vil's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    ლಠ益
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roc Ness View Post
    I would have to agree that the spells per week basis would be a problem, not just because players will abuse it, but also because DMs general are highly watchful of anything that could be a problem in the player's hands.

    For example, the Candle of Invocation. As a player, I can vow never to abuse it, but that isn't going to convince any DM to let me have one. I really enjoy homebrew, and I wanted to give this class a spin, however, right now at its current level of potential player mayhem, I don't think any DM is going to blink twice before outright disallowing.

    May I suggest either implementing a cooldown period between castings of high level spells, or perhaps simply return to the "per-day" basis for spellcasting, albeit at a very low rate of spells per day?

    I don't get the issue everyone seems to see with high level spells. They only know four, and only have two more spell slots then that of a Sorcerer while the Sorcerer gets that every day.
    To regenerate a 9th level spell slot, they'd have to spend 90minutes performing whatever perform skill they chose to be their source.
    That is 90 minutes someone else has to watch you and/or participate in.
    It is very easy for a DM to control, via interrupting the performance, not having a sufficient NPC available, keeping players busy.
    Lets see. With 9, or 10 total ninth level spells per week assuming she has the Tome implement. We'll assume the Sorceress spent them all already and there's a really mean guy they happen to somehow know is coming. That's 900 minutes, or fifteen hours, of performance to restore them all.
    To regenerate all their spells from square one would take a very long time.

    If the DM is passive and the player a ****, They could regenerate spells all day if they have an NPC that can watch/participate or another PC without anything else to do. But it takes time, time anything could interrupt and time that they may not even have.

    At most/worst, they can cast ten Niners in one day. Four more then a Sorcerer. But then the Sorcerer just sleeps for 8 hours, which with Time Stop is fairly easy, and regenerate them all at once. While the Sorceress with her ten would need to spend a very long time to regenerate hers if she wants to use them again or wait a week before her spells comeback.

    They have two more 9th spells Known then a Sorcerer for use, with one of those being interchangeable. While the Wizard can simply access the entire spellbook for their whole spellcasting.


    I am incapable of seeing the Sorceress as any less or more effective then a Wizard or Sorcerer.
    They're just different.

    In return for their potential to be completely spell-less, they have Carnal Knowledge...
    I think I see the problem. Carnal Knowledge possibly selecting a 9th level spell? I dunno. Thought just crossed my mind, I'll look into it.

    There. That should be fine.

    .... Oh. Never mind. I never really fully grasped the implications of my Carnal Knowledge. They're not that bad. But I dunno... I think she's stronger then a Wizard but not exponentially/blatantly so.
    I guess that's an alright mark. *nods*
    Last edited by Cipherthe3vil; 2012-06-12 at 03:12 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    JeminiZero's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: The Relentless Sorceress (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    In return for their potential to be completely spell-less, they have Carnal Knowledge...
    I think I see the problem. Carnal Knowledge possibly selecting a 9th level spell? I dunno. Thought just crossed my mind, I'll look into it.
    Yeah... One of the thoughts running through a DM's head when going through a player requested homebrew, is usually "how does my player plan to abuse this". If anything potentially broken is spotted, it is usually vetoed. Hence homebrewers usually have to think likewise, and try and fix their classes to to prevent exploits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cipherthe3vil View Post
    There. That should be fine.

    .... Oh. Never mind. I never really fully grasped the implications of my Carnal Knowledge. They're not that bad. But I dunno... I think she's stronger then a Wizard but not exponentially/blatantly so.
    I guess that's an alright mark. *nods*
    Actually, she is STILL currently on the Tier 0 side. Carnal Knowledge has no limitation that SLAs & SUs retain costly XP and material component cost (if any). Which means that if she picked up say... Simulacrum, she could spam it all day with no XP/Material cost.
    Last edited by JeminiZero; 2012-06-12 at 07:41 PM.
    Trissociate: 3.5 Homebrew Base Class. Mix & match abilites & templates to make virtually any sort of character!
    Spoiler
    Show
    Theoretical Optimization Amusements
    Emerald Legion A Mind Flayer's guide to creating near-invincible super soldiers.
    Spellblade Tennis Throw out nigh infinite spells per round.
    Sleeping Raven Infinite Blood Frenzy nigh infinite melee damage exploit.

    Minor Accolades
    Quote Originally Posted by jmbrown View Post
    so deliciously flavorful
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaeron View Post
    Bravo Bravo
    Quote Originally Posted by Kansaschaser View Post
    I think you just saved my city.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •