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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    Next question;

    Q: Is there a mathematical formula to determine the time it takes for any Shadowrun thread to dissolve into discussion about stealing cars vs run pay offs?



    ehh that's not entirely true.

    They will also have any of their legal SIN's tagged with a criminal rap sheet which can make things difficult.

    If they don't have a SIN and are using a fake SIN you have to hope it stands up to scrutinization because if it doesn't they will also be charged with fraud and stuck with with a criminal SIN. (or possible just shot and dumped depending on where their caught because with out a SIN their not "real" citizens anyway.)

    They will also get charged for possession of any illegal equipment they have on them.

    Possibly have any known residences searched and be charged for what ever illegal equipment they find there.

    Depending on the size of the operation there is the possibility of words like "organised crime" springing up which can increase the jail time.

    + if they have been stealing cars for long enough its possible some of the insurance agency corps are going to lean on the legal system to get the jail time increased because these people have been costing them money.
    And yet all of these downsides still aren't as bad as what happens if the Runners get caught on a typical run. I mean, if the GM is handwaving the players getting caught doing actual runs, but employing the full force of the legal system when they go stealing cars, that's sheer GM dickery.

    You are right however that stealing cars makes for a boring game. But there's an easy way to fix that: Pay enough on runs to make them more profitable for the runners to do than petty crime. It really is that simple.

    GMs who insist that the lifestyle of shadowrunners is supposed to be living week to week with low lifestyles and wondering where their next payday is just to keep eating are the equivalent of a DM in D&D who wants to play a low magic game, where low magic is defined as "No magic items for you!". It's one of those things that sounds reasonable on the surface, but ultimately just screws over an entire archtype from functioning and progressing as intended, while minorly inconveniencing the others.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    And yet all of these downsides still aren't as bad as what happens if the Runners get caught on a typical run. I mean, if the GM is handwaving the players getting caught doing actual runs, but employing the full force of the legal system when they go stealing cars, that's sheer GM dickery.
    Hehe i'm not disagreeing with you there it just always amuses me how easy people make it sound when they use the "stealing cars" option.

    i always imagine it like this;

    DM: so what are you guys doing now?
    Player1: ...er... i guess we could steal a car and sell it?!?
    *alarms go off and balloons and confetti fall from the ceiling*
    DM: aww you guy's good work you won the game! Just write down as much money on your chr sheets as you want!
    Players: YAY US! why doesn't it say this in the book?
    DM: It's in the running the game section and it's meant to be a DM secret *wink*.



    But anyway i like to keep my payments decent but not over the top. I also like to ensure there is multiple ways of getting a job done, so when the players complain "man we spent a fortune on ammo that run! we should ask for more money!" i can have the Johnson respond with "who told you to shoot anyone?".

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    Hehe i'm not disagreeing with you there it just always amuses me how easy people make it sound when they use the "stealing cars" option.

    i always imagine it like this;

    DM: so what are you guys doing now?
    Player1: ...er... i guess we could steal a car and sell it?!?
    *alarms go off and balloons and confetti fall from the ceiling*
    DM: aww you guy's good work you won the game! Just write down as much money on your chr sheets as you want!
    Players: YAY US! why doesn't it say this in the book?
    DM: It's in the running the game section and it's meant to be a DM secret *wink*.

    It's more like the players feel they're lagging behind on money, and want some more money, they take a break from running and go steal a few cars to supplement their income. This detracts time from the actual game (because despite being relatively easy, it does still take time to go find a proper mark, actually steal the car, then fence it) while players spend time getting money. Time that wouldn't have been wasted if mission rewards were simply sufficient to make PCs not feel like stealing cars was worthy of their time.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Ah... this argument again. I'd never seen it until recently, actually...

    You know, I always figured the point of Shadowrun was the gameplay. Yeah when nuyen troubles interfere with what your players want on a consistent basis that's detrimental, but like... it's similar to the "bag of rats" argument in D&D, while I understand the issues, I've never personally had to worry about a player who cared more about numbers than suspension of disbelief and immersion in a shared social experience.

    However I'm not denying that such players exist, and in droves. I guess I view it as a player problem rather than a character problem. If the players are desperate enough for money that they'd rather spend a session stealing cars than going on runs, it signifies to me that the runs aren't interesting enough, not that they don't pay enough.

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    In my games, it often happens that the party will get a job where it would be useful to have a cheap, disposable car on hand, and they steal one for the purpose. Or just to get out of dodge when their own cars were just firebombed. A lot of our equipment came from these crimes of opportunity and necessity, come to think of it, and that kind of resourcefulness helps one's rep more than it hurts as long as it gets the job done.

    A lot of Johnsons will also arrange for their runners to get some extra gear conducive to a run before they go, to boost their chance of success. If they can do the job efficiently enough that they don't need to use all five of those rockets, hey, they can keep the change.

    For actual payment, I generally just think of the supply side of the equation for a given run. They're paying you for a job with a certain expected return on investment, which can run independently of actual difficulty.

    Sometimes the party can't say no because they need to make the rent, sometimes Johnson can't say no because he doesn't have time to shop around. Sometimes a heist is so profitable that Johnson will pay handsomely just to make sure the party won't have anything better to do, or so simple that he's clearly only doing it to get a feel for the fresh meat's strengths and weaknesses and tag them for more fitting missions. Other times a shadowy patron will consider the PCs to be particularly valuable pawns in her schemes, and go out of her way to keep them around so she can use and/or kill them later.

    I don't think that game balance is really Shadowrun's thing, but having one person feel useless for under- or over-specializing isn't alien to my games either: my game had the issue where most of our runs spent 4 hours getting planned out, then executed by the mage and the technomancer without ever setting foot in whichever complex the GM had in mind. He adapted by forcing everyone to deal with backlash, ambushes, politics and revenge schemes, introducing rival mages and other semi-logical countermeasures to force the talkers and cybers to save everyone.

    Also, one seemingly useless guy can suddenly steal the spotlight at literally any time because he is the one who brought explosives or medkits or contacts or zip-ties or whatever.
    Last edited by Dr.Gunsforhands; 2012-06-28 at 11:45 PM.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Ok Technomancer threading Question.

    SR4A stipulates that when threading the technomancer can choose to discard some of the hits scored (p240SR4A).

    Q1: Does this allow you to drop all hits? (basically letting you retry with free actions without ever having to make a fade resist.)

    Q2: Glitches and Critical Glitches with threading rolls, do they happen?
    Q2b: If they do happen what suggestions do you have for outcomes?

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    Ok Technomancer threading Question.

    SR4A stipulates that when threading the technomancer can choose to discard some of the hits scored (p240SR4A).

    Q1: Does this allow you to drop all hits? (basically letting you retry with free actions without ever having to make a fade resist.)

    Q2: Glitches and Critical Glitches with threading rolls, do they happen?
    Q2b: If they do happen what suggestions do you have for outcomes?
    1)I suppose, though threading is usually done under duress, and the GM may be well within their rights to apply the -1 penalty for multiple checks in an extended test if you try this.

    2)Glitches, critical or otherwise, can happen with pretty much any roll. For glitches, adding extra fading, or making the complex form have some kind of weirdness is appropriate(the attack program must make a called shot, the stealth program only works for 10 rounds before crapping out, the disarm program looks like a cloud of rainbow butterflies.) Critical Glitches should, at the very least, render the TM unable to thread that form for 24 hours, possibly a lot worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    Hehe i'm not disagreeing with you there it just always amuses me how easy people make it sound when they use the "stealing cars" option.

    i always imagine it like this;

    DM: so what are you guys doing now?
    Player1: ...er... i guess we could steal a car and sell it?!?
    *alarms go off and balloons and confetti fall from the ceiling*
    DM: aww you guy's good work you won the game! Just write down as much money on your chr sheets as you want!
    Players: YAY US! why doesn't it say this in the book?
    DM: It's in the running the game section and it's meant to be a DM secret *wink*.



    But anyway i like to keep my payments decent but not over the top. I also like to ensure there is multiple ways of getting a job done, so when the players complain "man we spent a fortune on ammo that run! we should ask for more money!" i can have the Johnson respond with "who told you to shoot anyone?".
    While it's true that there are risks involved, the risks for stealing a car, or robbing a store, or even being a mob enforcer are much less than being a shadowrunner. Shadowrunners have people shot at them and worse on a consistent basis, and make far more enemies and friends, and most importantly, no one is there to back them up. If a mob goon gets arrested, they can expect the mob to at least provide a lawyer to help get them out, but if a runner gets caught they are left high and dry. It comes with the territory.

    A runner is someone who, despite being very skilled, a)doesn't work for a corp/government, b)doesn't work for mob or a cartel or a merc group, and c) doesn't primarily work as a normal criminal(car thief, fence, ect). If shadowrunner didn't pay well, there wouldn't be many runners, because they would all do one of the above.

    Lets look at this from another direction. You're Mr. Johnson, and you are hiring some runners for a job. You must be willing to pay them well. If you wanted it cheaper, you could do it yourself, hiring some street thugs, cut a deal with a gang or a mob, or even go to a corp or the police. You hired runners, however, because you needed one of more of the following:

    * You needed a group that had a rep for getting the job done with little or no complications
    * You needed a group with no loyalties that may work agienst you
    * You need absolute secrecy, and the promise that if things go south, you won't be fingered.

    Those traits cost a lot. If you want a package delivered, but you are not willing to group 5k on it per runner, hire some street punks. But if you need protection at a gang meet, and you need to be absolutely sure no one has bought them off, you'll be willing to drop 5-10k+ per guard.
    Last edited by TheOOB; 2012-06-29 at 02:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    It generally gets mentioned within five posts of someone asking how much to pay the runners.
    hey how was I supposed to know what would happen?


    new question!

    I have only just now finally managed to make the hacking rules 'click' in my brain.

    ... but it came up.....


    are AR and VR the ONLY ways to interact with the matrix?

    is it no longer possible (however old-fashioned) to simply log onto a computer terminal and do all the same stuff?
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by big teej View Post
    hey how was I supposed to know what would happen?


    new question!

    I have only just now finally managed to make the hacking rules 'click' in my brain.

    ... but it came up.....


    are AR and VR the ONLY ways to interact with the matrix?

    is it no longer possible (however old-fashioned) to simply log onto a computer terminal and do all the same stuff?
    Those interfaces are no longer in common use in 2070, but rules-wise it would pretty much work like AR except on a screen instead of your glasses.

    You should probably make sure to get a good Reality Filter program, though, since most of the modern sites and programs won't be too copacetic with the 2D keyboard-and-mouse interface.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    The good doctor has it right on the nose.
    He understands - more than the others do, at any rate. We don't talk much, and the silence speaks
    volumes. (Thanks to Gnomish Wanderer for the Nosferatu avatar! )

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by big teej View Post
    hey how was I supposed to know what would happen?


    new question!

    I have only just now finally managed to make the hacking rules 'click' in my brain.

    ... but it came up.....


    are AR and VR the ONLY ways to interact with the matrix?

    is it no longer possible (however old-fashioned) to simply log onto a computer terminal and do all the same stuff?
    Its not your fault. On Dumpshock, the official unofficial shadowrun forums the topic has already been discussed to death more or less so it doesn't come up as often.

    Operating at a terminal exists in SR, but most people don't have a terminal at home. They use the Nexus rules in unwired, and can run a ton of personas and programs at a time, so good for corps. The Commlink has largely taking over the home computer though(that will never actually happen, but it did in SR).

    It would work just like AR, and there would be no problems navigating. Remember that a commlink has physical control features(buttons and scroll wheels), and there is defiantly to rule saying you have to have AR gloves or a DNI to operate a computer.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    drat..... I guess that simsense vertigo is going to matter alot more than I thought.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    A runner is someone who, despite being very skilled, a)doesn't work for a corp/government, b)doesn't work for mob or a cartel or a merc group, and c) doesn't primarily work as a normal criminal(car thief, fence, ect). If shadowrunner didn't pay well, there wouldn't be many runners, because they would all do one of the above.

    Lets look at this from another direction. You're Mr. Johnson, and you are hiring some runners for a job. You must be willing to pay them well. If you wanted it cheaper, you could do it yourself, hiring some street thugs, cut a deal with a gang or a mob, or even go to a corp or the police. You hired runners, however, because you needed one of more of the following:
    To step in with one of my pet peeves. It's rare to find a runner without the expected 6/two 5s. Look up the level of expertise that implies. Bottom-feeder "runners" are all well and good if everybody agrees that street scum are fun. Fresh from chargens are more likely to be competent somebodies than not.

    It'd be nice if people were clearer about what power levels they were aiming for (and what the rules allowed) instead of building from theory first.

    Quote Originally Posted by big teej View Post
    are AR and VR the ONLY ways to interact with the matrix?

    is it no longer possible (however old-fashioned) to simply log onto a computer terminal and do all the same stuff?
    A quick look at what comlinks do shows that you can "merely" use them as smartphones on crack. The home PC won't exist in a world where tablets have more computing power than you'll ever need, but you can probably get by without the constant info overlay. You won't be able to get in and do any of the fun hacking stuff, though.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    To step in with one of my pet peeves. It's rare to find a runner without the expected 6/two 5s. Look up the level of expertise that implies. Bottom-feeder "runners" are all well and good if everybody agrees that street scum are fun. Fresh from chargens are more likely to be competent somebodies than not.

    It'd be nice if people were clearer about what power levels they were aiming for (and what the rules allowed) instead of building from theory first.
    You're mostly right, the build point system strongly encourages high powered characters, and it's fair to assume that's a design choice rather than an accident(regardless, they didn't change it with SR4A, so they're happy with it at least).

    It's actually inefficient to start the game with a stat at natural max. Raising an attribute from 1 to 5 costs 40 BP, and 70 karma. Thats a 1.75 karma to BP ratio, averaged out, while raising an attribute from 5 to 6 costs 20 BP or 30 karma, which is a 1.5 karma to BP ratio. Thus it is more BP efficient to raise raise attributes up to 5, but not to 6(assuming human). In fact, it's just as efficient to change a 2 into a 3 as it is to change a 5 into a 6. Just avoid 6's at creation in the BP system, buy them with karma.

    Skills are another matter, you should always have your one at 6 or your two at 5(the one at 6 gives you a better exchange rate), and put the rest of your important skills at 4.

    Honestly, I prefer a heavily modified karma creation system.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by big teej View Post
    hey how was I supposed to know what would happen?
    lol it just one of those questions which will never be answered because truthfully there is no right answer.

    It is about on par with the dnd edition war.

    Its been going as long as i can remember and it will probably be going on for a long time after i stop remembering.

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    Question on Augmentation!

    So, I remember that things like medkits and workshops can boost one's effective medical skills into the stratosphere, to the point where complex trauma surgery and implantation actually seemed to become trivial, even for someone with no skill to speak of. This was kind of weird.

    I remember that earlier someone said that most medical and first aid rolls had penalties. I remember the -2 for dealing with the capricious awakened immune system, but which other ones am I forgetting that would justify getting these +8 bonuses from tools?
    Last edited by Dr.Gunsforhands; 2012-06-29 at 08:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    A quick look at what comlinks do shows that you can "merely" use them as smartphones on crack. The home PC won't exist in a world where tablets have more computing power than you'll ever need, but you can probably get by without the constant info overlay. You won't be able to get in and do any of the fun hacking stuff, though.
    musta missed that.

    but huzzah!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    lol it just one of those questions which will never be answered because truthfully there is no right answer.

    It is about on par with the dnd edition war.

    Its been going as long as i can remember and it will probably be going on for a long time after i stop remembering.
    I know there isn't a 'right' answer (with tabletops in general, in my experience there are few, if any)

    just lookin for some guidelines that make sense to me (such as the aformentioned 2k or 5k per runner)



    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Gunsforhands View Post
    Question on Augmentation!

    So, I remember that things like medkits and workshops can boost one's effective medical skills into the stratosphere, to the point where complex trauma surgery and implantation actually seemed to become trivial, even for someone with no skill to speak of. This was kind of weird.

    I remember that earlier someone said that most medical and first aid rolls had penalties. I remember the -2 for dealing with the capricious awakened immune system, but which other ones am I forgetting that would justify getting these +8 bonuses from tools?
    oooh! I can help with this one!

    IIRC: if you're working on people in a standard indoor environment (your livingroom or kitchen for example) it's a - 1 modifier, which only goes up (combat is -3 I think)

    also, there's a dicepool modifier based on how much essence the patient has lost to bio/cyberware.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Gunsforhands View Post
    Question on Augmentation!

    So, I remember that things like medkits and workshops can boost one's effective medical skills into the stratosphere, to the point where complex trauma surgery and implantation actually seemed to become trivial, even for someone with no skill to speak of. This was kind of weird.

    I remember that earlier someone said that most medical and first aid rolls had penalties. I remember the -2 for dealing with the capricious awakened immune system, but which other ones am I forgetting that would justify getting these +8 bonuses from tools?
    You get a -1 bonus just for not being in a hospital.

    I think the theory is that medical science has come far enough that if something doesn't kill you outright and you get aid soon enough you should be ok.

    It's when you're stuck in an abandoned sewer, by yourself with little to no lighting trying to patch up a sucking gut wound that you can never seem to find enough bonuses to get the job done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big teej
    oooh! I can help with this one!

    IIRC: if you're working on people in a standard indoor environment (your livingroom or kitchen for example) it's a - 1 modifier, which only goes up (combat is -3 I think)

    also, there's a dicepool modifier based on how much essence the patient has lost to bio/cyberware.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun
    You get a -1 bonus just for not being in a hospital.

    I think the theory is that medical science has come far enough that if something doesn't kill you outright and you get aid soon enough you should be ok.

    It's when you're stuck in an abandoned sewer, by yourself with little to no lighting trying to patch up a sucking gut wound that you can never seem to find enough bonuses to get the job done.
    That all makes sense! So, the main advantage to having good skills would be adaptability, and the main advantage of a facility would be that they can get away with hiring less-skilled personnel that they call, "technicians," for legal reasons.

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by big teej
    just lookin for some guidelines that make sense to me (such as the aformentioned 2k or 5k per runner)
    I'd have to recommend just winging it based on what you want the PCs to be able to buy when all is said and done. A few of their contacts might even be willing and able to bribe them directly with some fancy gear in exchange for a favor or two (that also happen to be plot hooks).

    The main limiting factor is that Johnson is unlikely to pay someone the GDP of a small country just for picking up his secret pills from the pharmacy or something. In that case you would have to weigh the benefits of hiring the runners in the first place. For instance, a total of ten thousand for keeping it secret - which works out to about 2500 per player - might be worth it if the aforementioned guy is a rich public figure who doesn't want it getting out that he is taking experimental HMVV medication or whatever. It also scales up if the patron is richer and more public, since they have more to lose and would hire Johnsons specifically to find the people with the best rep.

    If all else fails, just consult your chart.
    Last edited by Dr.Gunsforhands; 2012-06-29 at 09:43 PM. Reason: Tense Agreement, MY ARCH-NEMESIS
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Someone on Dumpshock, a rather business-y type, once posted a really great document outlining not what runners should be paid, but how much various kinds of Johnsons could afford to pay them.

    In addition to a range of Johnsons, it had a range for each of them of how much they could pay the runners from "normal operating expenses" to "calling in every favour and borrowing all the money they can".

    IIRC correctly it was extrapolating from the nuyen prices of things to figure out how much money an organisation (corp, gang, crime family) would have flowing in it, how much various people would be paid, and how much they could spend on shadowrunners.

    I really should have saved it...

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Gunsforhands View Post
    Question on Augmentation!

    So, I remember that things like medkits and workshops can boost one's effective medical skills into the stratosphere, to the point where complex trauma surgery and implantation actually seemed to become trivial, even for someone with no skill to speak of. This was kind of weird.

    I remember that earlier someone said that most medical and first aid rolls had penalties. I remember the -2 for dealing with the capricious awakened immune system, but which other ones am I forgetting that would justify getting these +8 bonuses from tools?
    Honestly, the med kit is usually enough just to overcome the penalty. Also while it's not listed in the rules, is a reasonable assumption that higher rating medkits are larer.

    There is a -2 penalty for awakened/emerged, a variable penalty for conditions(often -2 - -4), and a penalty for essence lost do to 'ware. When you add into the fact that healing is a threshold 2 check, and your net hits are the damage healed, you need those bonuses to even have a chance of healing wounds.

    Augmentation greatly enhanced the medicine rules as well. It added lasting injuries that occure typically on glitches/critical glitches on wound resistance rolls. That said, in SR, virtually any wound that doesn't kill you can be healed quickly and without incident if you have a little money(even clonal limbs are not that expensive).
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Question about mapsofts - how do they work? The basic concept seems pretty clear - you get a program, it's an interactive map of the area.

    But how much area do they cover? Cities? Regions of a city? A state? It's not a physical map, there isn't a tradeoff of information density as you increase the area, just file size, right?

    Also, they have a rating, and their cost scales with the rating, but I don't see anything about what that rating means. Is that how much detail there will be? How effectively they update themselves? How accurate they are?

    Lastly, and somewhat tenuously linked, is there anything like a program or a device that live-maps places you go to? I'm thinking of this primarily as useful on a run, where you build up a map of a building's internals as you go about the run, because that information isn't easily accessible via other means. If not, how hard would it be to make something like it in-game?

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Feriority View Post
    Lastly, and somewhat tenuously linked, is there anything like a program or a device that live-maps places you go to? I'm thinking of this primarily as useful on a run, where you build up a map of a building's internals as you go about the run, because that information isn't easily accessible via other means. If not, how hard would it be to make something like it in-game?
    Ehh sounds like something a tac net could do in theory.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Feriority View Post
    Question about mapsofts - how do they work? The basic concept seems pretty clear - you get a program, it's an interactive map of the area.

    But how much area do they cover? Cities? Regions of a city? A state? It's not a physical map, there isn't a tradeoff of information density as you increase the area, just file size, right?

    Also, they have a rating, and their cost scales with the rating, but I don't see anything about what that rating means. Is that how much detail there will be? How effectively they update themselves? How accurate they are?

    Lastly, and somewhat tenuously linked, is there anything like a program or a device that live-maps places you go to? I'm thinking of this primarily as useful on a run, where you build up a map of a building's internals as you go about the run, because that information isn't easily accessible via other means. If not, how hard would it be to make something like it in-game?
    Actually, I always thought that a mapsoft was the last thing you're describing - a utility where you hit 'record' on your image link and it starts building a mini-map for you based on what it sees. (EDIT: Maybe I should go look it up and make sure...)

    Regardless, you wouldn't really need that extra software for a regular map of a public area - you can just use Future Google Maps and get that for free.
    Last edited by Dr.Gunsforhands; 2012-06-30 at 10:53 PM.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Gunsforhands View Post
    Regardless, you wouldn't really need that extra software for a regular map of a public area - you can just use Future Google Maps and get that for free.
    Being someone who presumably wants to sneak around megacorp holdings often, you probably don't want a live feed of your location going to a megacorp. Yes, you should be able to download the info for free. It's handwavable given how cheap mapsofts are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feriority View Post
    Question about mapsofts - how do they work? The basic concept seems pretty clear - you get a program, it's an interactive map of the area.

    But how much area do they cover? Cities? Regions of a city? A state? It's not a physical map, there isn't a tradeoff of information density as you increase the area, just file size, right?

    Also, they have a rating, and their cost scales with the rating, but I don't see anything about what that rating means. Is that how much detail there will be? How effectively they update themselves? How accurate they are?
    On the very off chance that you need detail on the area, it should work like varying levels of specialization for knowledge skills. The smaller the area, the fewer hits you need to find what you want. Although personally, I'd rather skip the "a roll for everything" philosophy.

    Lastly, and somewhat tenuously linked, is there anything like a program or a device that live-maps places you go to? I'm thinking of this primarily as useful on a run, where you build up a map of a building's internals as you go about the run, because that information isn't easily accessible via other means. If not, how hard would it be to make something like it in-game?
    Depends entirely on how much detail you'd want. The big problem with livemapping a real place is getting the dimensions just right.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Gunsforhands View Post
    Regardless, you wouldn't really need that extra software for a regular map of a public area - you can just use Future Google Maps and get that for free.
    Shadowrun is not the real world in 60 years, it's Shadowrun. Free and Shareware programs don't usually exist, and if they tend to suck. A freeware map program would be rating 1, require matrix access, and likely be slow.

    A mapsoft would apply it's rating as a bonus to navigation tests. I would general say a map would cover either a major metropolitan area, or about the size of a state of wilderness/smaller towns. Around Seattle you'd see a mapsoft for Seattle Metroplex, Seattle area UCAS territory, SSC Territory, Tir Territory, Bellingham Metroplex, and Tacoma Metroplex.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    Shadowrun is not the real world in 60 years, it's Shadowrun.
    If I recall correctly, it actually deviated from our world about twenty years ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    Free and Shareware programs don't usually exist, and if they tend to suck.
    Well, freeware, open source, and shareware programs do exist; the megacorps, of course, don't like the concept one bit, and most of the programs of that sort you do get thus tend to be vastly more limited, not update as often, et cetera, than the pay versions.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    It's also kinda hard to make free/shareware when it's so easy to just slip a thousand nyen to some troll gangers if it looks like what you're doing might reduce profits by more than that.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Poil View Post
    It's also kinda hard to make free/shareware when it's so easy to just slip a thousand nyen to some troll gangers if it looks like what you're doing might reduce profits by more than that.
    ...

    Corps having freelance software writers knocked of by troll gangers?

    Seems an odd and risky way of handling things.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    ...

    Corps having freelance software writers knocked of by troll gangers?

    Seems an odd and risky way of handling things.
    Well given how much Shadowrunners cost you gotta make savings somewhere to keep within budget
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