Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

[big teej]

depending on the specifics obviously...

how bout an intimidation run?


the team simply has to sneak in somewhere, and leave something for somebody who'll know what it is, who it's from, and what it means.


liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike.

let's say The Mob want's to put some pressure (subltly) on a witness in a case. the team could sneak into their house/apartment/whatever.

and leave a bullet on the kitchen counter.

very quiet.
very obvious.

depending on home security.
very challenging.


and it's a perfect way to get people out of the dnd mentality (the entire job must be performed with no corpses, and no heat.)

[The Random NPC]

A BnE in an automated factory or warehouse could do it, just make sure that they know they have to lay low for longer than their payoff covers if they raise too much of an alarm.

[Kaun]

The intimidation mission is an interesting one that I am definitely going to chew on.

The factory one is similar to what i have been thinking of but i just can't seem to flesh it out in a way that interests me for the level of difficulty i want.

I am currently tossing around an idea for a bounty hunter mission.

Basically one of the runners would hear from a police informant of his that a dangerous criminal had managed to escape from a private prison in the area.

The criminal would be a chromed up sam from O/S that was desperately trying to use what ever he could get his hands to get out of the country.

The corp running the prison would be offering a good reward for him being brought in alive (say 25kY) and a smaller reward for dead (10kY), the runners would all so have to get past the idea of taking him off to the underground chop shop to harvest his sweet ware.

+ there would be other bounty hunters to compete with.

anyway... still mulling it over.

[The Random NPC]

One question that comes to mind immediately, how does this convict have any good implants, having just escaped from prison? The best answer I can think of is, that's how he escaped, but you should have an idea of how he got it.

[Poil]

Wouldn't the prison just rip all the ware out and sell it?

[Kaun]

Wouldn't the prison just rip all the ware out and sell it?

Yeah i was thinking about that.

The prison is private Wuxing owned and the prisoner is a Azy Black ops corp spy.

The Wuxing have been holding onto him at first to try and get info out of him but after over a year they have yet to even get a confirmed id. Now they are containing him han solo style as a bargaining chip in case they ever need leverage or a bartering item.

The ware is fairly cutting edge but not revolutionary and their preliminary examinations have show that it has been installed to include removal countermeasures. They estimate the chances of removing the ware in a functioning state and keeping the current owner alive is disappointingly low.

Because he was convicted under state law while he is alive the government pay's the prison to keep him under lock and key(serving out his long sentence) and Wuxing have him up their sleeve just in case.

Well up until he escaped anyway.

[Reluctance]

Meh. I'd just say bioware or similar mods where replacing the material would be more costly than it's worth. (Unless you have a handy replacement available, removing a synthcardium means losing any benefit to keeping the person around. Removing muscle enhancements means that you have to have a full-time nurse. Not all ware need be easily removable combat enhancements. And on a special ops type, you probably don't want combat ware that's easy to spot.)

Still, simply because it's Shadowrun, I'd suggest something a little more traditional. A simple datasteal, where you get paid a bonus for not tipping the target off. (It's the difference between forcing them to adjust their plans because someone else knows what they're planning, and catching them with their pants down because they don't know that their secrets are out there.) You kinda do want it to be slightly dungeon crawl-esque, except with planning and legwork cutting combat down to a minimum. A wilderness adventure bug hunt isn't too far removed from the D&D mentality, aside from telling the PCs that they need to use nonlethal damage.

(Plus, there's just something to the stereotypical run. Sometimes things are cliche because they're such a perfect fit with the setting anyways.)

[comicshorse]

A wilderness adventure bug hunt isn't too far removed from the D&D mentality, aside from telling the PCs that they need to use nonlethal damage.

A nice twist for this is the Simsense shoot where the P.C.s take the film crew to shoot 'Paranatural Killers 4' or some other piece of cinematic art. That way you have the wilderness crawl and the monster fighting with Shadowrun touches such as bodygaurding the spoilt stars of the movie and maybe a bit of intrigue as somebody on the shoot intends to sabotage things so a rival studio's movie makes it to the theatres first

[Reluctance]

A nice twist for this is the Simsense shoot where the P.C.s take the film crew to shoot 'Paranatural Killers 4' or some other piece of cinematic art. That way you have the wilderness crawl and the monster fighting with Shadowrun touches such as bodygaurding the spoilt stars of the movie and maybe a bit of intrigue as somebody on the shoot intends to sabotage things so a rival studio's movie makes it to the theatres first

While this is in fact a really good idea to get the players into the sixth world, it's bringing up a tangental rant.

Spoiler

Show

The degree to which everyone in the SR world seems both aware of and able to tap into the world of secretive career criminals always struck me as off. While I appreciate a good crime story as much as the next guy, the world has too many sly nods on top of questionable legacy systems, the net effect of which is that suspension of disbelief starts to feel stretched.)

[TheOOB]

depending on the specifics obviously...

how bout an intimidation run?


the team simply has to sneak in somewhere, and leave something for somebody who'll know what it is, who it's from, and what it means.


liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike.

let's say The Mob want's to put some pressure (subltly) on a witness in a case. the team could sneak into their house/apartment/whatever.

and leave a bullet on the kitchen counter.

very quiet.
very obvious.

depending on home security.
very challenging.


and it's a perfect way to get people out of the dnd mentality (the entire job must be performed with no corpses, and no heat.)

Interesting idea, but not something a mob would hire a runner for. A mob has plenty of people who can do that kind of crap, the only reason a mob would hire a runner is if it's absolutely critical that no one knows that the mob performed the run, which for intimidation is kind of counter to the point. A mob would hire a runner to say, off a leader to another group without causing a mob war, or to destroy Knight Errants files on one of their made men.

[Daemonhawk]

Is there a weapon similar to a battle rifle? Something that does a lot of damage in one shot, but can also use burst fire. Cheers from Tyler.

[Reluctance]

An assault rifle with an underbarrel grenade launcher is probably your best bet. Don't get caught with it.

[Seerow]

Is there a weapon similar to a battle rifle? Something that does a lot of damage in one shot, but can also use burst fire. Cheers from Tyler.

Most weapons can be used to switch between Semi Auto and Burst Fire, however you're almost always better off using burst fire as long as you have adequate recoil compensation.

[big teej]

Interesting idea, but not something a mob would hire a runner for. A mob has plenty of people who can do that kind of crap, the only reason a mob would hire a runner is if it's absolutely critical that no one knows that the mob performed the run, which for intimidation is kind of counter to the point. A mob would hire a runner to say, off a leader to another group without causing a mob war, or to destroy Knight Errants files on one of their made men.

I disagree, if one of the runners has a contact within the mob (which is certainly plausible, hell one of the examples in the book is such a contact)
it's not a big stretch to assume they would occaisionally ask for favors.

[TheOOB]

I disagree, if one of the runners has a contact within the mob (which is certainly plausible, hell one of the examples in the book is such a contact)
it's not a big stretch to assume they would occaisionally ask for favors.

I agree, runners often have contacts with the mob, but a runners relationship with the mob(hell with most of their contacts) is primarily about money. Shadowrunners are mercenaries, they perform crimes for money, and a mob is a criminal organization with the purpose of earning money, neither side is interested in doing crime for free.

While it is true that sometimes one side may owe the other favors, I don't see many occasions where a mob while use a favor with a runner to do something they can just as easily do themselves, in fact if the mob can't deliver a threat themselves, they obviously can't carry out the threat.

I mob is more likely to hire the runners to do something they can't(or use a favor), such as providing security at a meet with another mob, ensuring the only weapons are carried by a neutral party.

[Andrewmoreton]

Is there a weapon similar to a battle rifle? Something that does a lot of damage in one shot, but can also use burst fire. Cheers from Tyler.

The Supplement War has Battle Rifles which are mechanically speaking larger versions of assault rifles firing a heavier round which does more damage. One of the Gun Haven books also has some battle rifles in it.

Or you could use the modification rules in arsenal to give a sporting or sniper rifle Burst fire and an extended magazine

[Kaun]

Still, simply because it's Shadowrun, I'd suggest something a little more traditional. A simple datasteal, where you get paid a bonus for not tipping the target off. (It's the difference between forcing them to adjust their plans because someone else knows what they're planning, and catching them with their pants down because they don't know that their secrets are out there.) You kinda do want it to be slightly dungeon crawl-esque, except with planning and legwork cutting combat down to a minimum. A wilderness adventure bug hunt isn't too far removed from the D&D mentality, aside from telling the PCs that they need to use nonlethal damage.

(Plus, there's just something to the stereotypical run. Sometimes things are cliche because they're such a perfect fit with the setting anyways.)

Yeah i am back onto this kinda thing now.

At the moment i am thinking about having them steal a pallet sized crate from a secure logistics company warehouse.

They will get about three days for planing and an 8hr period to make the steal as the crate comes in from one truck and is stored over night before being loaded into the next truck in the morning.

It will be a lesson in overcoming a secure installation (security systems etc) hopefully and the Johnson will offer a bonus if it can be done with out anybody noticing for at least a 24hr period.

[Kaun]

So the discussion for today is;

Technomancers, why are they such big jerks?

Sure they can hack stuff with nothing more then the power of their minds but it take so much more rolling.

Then your stuck with the issue that has been there since the dawn of SR, the runners sitting bored watching the matrix specialist do his/her thing.

[LibraryOgre]

I think we've essentially rewritten the Matrix rules to work more like spellcasting... Attribute + Skill, with the maximum hits equalling the Rating of the Program. None of us have really looked at technomancers, however.

[TheOOB]

I think we've essentially rewritten the Matrix rules to work more like spellcasting... Attribute + Skill, with the maximum hits equalling the Rating of the Program. None of us have really looked at technomancers, however.

I've seen that house rule a lot, and honestly, I kind of like how gear dependent the hacker is, I like that they get a lot of karma to spend on other skills and abilities, making them more useful when not hacking.

Technomancers are...problematic. The trouble is that using complex forms sucks, they are way too expensive, and a hacker will be much better than a TM until they have submerged several times(to compare, a hacker can come out the gate with 5 matrix IP, a techno needs to submerge a couple of times).

Sprites on the other hand are way powerful, especially machine sprites. It's kind of the same problem magic has. Sorcery isn't really all that powerful, but conjuring is crazy, both in power and rules baggage.

[Dimestoretiamat]

I am so glad this thread has taken off! I have not had time to go back over everything posted due to work but I will as soon as I can.

Anyway, my current party configuration is as follows: Antispirit wizard with lots of social skills, typical heavy weapons troll, technomancer rigger, superhacker, biowared street samurai.

So far I am confident in the abilities of my party. The rigger might hae gotten a little thinned out, but I will have to wait until I see her in action before I can make any judgements. She's got decent (rank 4) Complex Forms and a Doberman with an AK-97 so she should be able to pull off some mischief outside of the garage as well as a 5 Compile to cover any computer skills she needs in case the hacker is otherwise occupied.

[TheOOB]

I am so glad this thread has taken off! I have not had time to go back over everything posted due to work but I will as soon as I can.

Anyway, my current party configuration is as follows: Antispirit wizard with lots of social skills, typical heavy weapons troll, technomancer rigger, superhacker, biowared street samurai.

So far I am confident in the abilities of my party. The rigger might hae gotten a little thinned out, but I will have to wait until I see her in action before I can make any judgements. She's got decent (rank 4) Complex Forms and a Doberman with an AK-97 so she should be able to pull off some mischief outside of the garage as well as a 5 Compile to cover any computer skills she needs in case the hacker is otherwise occupied.

As someone who plays a fair bit of Shadowrun, how does one make an "anti spirit wizard"?

[big teej]

As someone who plays a fair bit of Shadowrun, how does one make an "anti spirit wizard"?

as someone who's aiming for a similar idea (I think)


I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume it means "one focused on spellcasting and banishing"

[a_humble_lich]

As someone who plays a fair bit of Shadowrun, how does one make an "anti spirit wizard"?

As someone who has made an "anti-spirit" wizard that I really want to play, I went with: high astral combat/ mental attributes, the biggest weapon focus you can find, spells like astral armor (preferably with a sustaining focus), and then some other more standard wizard abilities.

Of course that was just the character I made, I don't know what his player did. High banishing might be useful too.

Edit: Apparently I need more Wired Reflexes to deal with the ninjas here.

[Seerow]

As someone who plays a fair bit of Shadowrun, how does one make an "anti spirit wizard"?

I always assumed that all wizards were heavily anti spirit by default. Stunbolt will drop a spirit as fast as it drops anything else.

[TheOOB]

My point is that stunbolt is far and away the most effective way of taking out a spirit, and a single spell isn't really a specialization. If the character is focusing on banishing or weapon foci someone might want to let them know they might be making a crappy character.

Banishing is, generally speaking, a crappy skill.

[LibraryOgre]

My current wizard specializes in Conjuring... he tends to use spirits like Spell Matricies. "Summon a force 5 spirit. Give it the Specific Spell power. Have it cast that spell on demand. Let it eat the drain."

Sure, you have to eat the drain for the summoning, but if you get 2 services on a Force 5 Heal spirit, you're up 1 set of drain... and a spirit focus helps you resist that drain, no matter what spell you give it.

[Kaun]

Two questions?

Q1: Does anybody else have issues with a group that over complicates everything?

It seems that if my group wanted to cross the street it would firstly require a full matrix data search for any information pertaining to the street both post its construction and during the initial planing and development stage.
They would need to gain access to all street sign's, cameras and traffic droids within a 1k radius of the intended cross zone.
They would need at least 36hrs surveillance hours on the street prior to crossing.
They would need to perform all the same checks on at least 5 other alternative streets.
They would need to debate the necessity of crossing the street as apposed to say tunneling under it for at least 2hrs.
They would need to perform complete background checks on anybody that had been recorded on local cameras with in the last 3 weeks.
and so on and so on.

I am cool with this kind of thing when they are braking into a super secure facility but they seem to want to do it prior to stopping in at a stuffershack for a soyCaff in the morning.

Q2: Certified credsticks where and when they can be used?

Unwired eludes to the fact that they are basically a thing of the past and some banks don't even except them. I have been saying that they still are in common use in the SINless sprawls but basically nonexistant in the world of SINers.

What is the generally concusses? This all sprang up when a runner tried to buy lunch at an upper crust restaurant with one.

[Dimestoretiamat]

The wizard is invested in astral combat and banishing. He also has good spellcasting and a Magic 6. He doesn't have stunbolt but he does have lightning bolt.

[Codemus]

Two questions?

Q1: Does anybody else have issues with a group that over complicates everything?

Well, sounds like they are properly paranoid. If you want to curb their habit though, then just let there be nothing. They may do that day after day, but they should get tired of it eventually. Alternatively, you can throw some false positives their way. As in, have some suspicious activities happen consistently, and when they make a move on it "Ooops, turns out it was just old man Henderson stalking the team. Off his meds again it seems." Throw enough non-encounters their way, and they may take the hint.

Q2: Certified credsticks where and when they can be used?

Just about anywhere, really. Like it says in the rulebook, the higher class will still accept them, they will just wonder why you are paying with nearly untraceable credsticks rather than electronically. A little suspicious, but money is money all the same. Still, a fine enough establishment may raise a stink about it, and try to insist on other forms of payment.


So I have some questions of my own.

Q. Toxic mages. I've wanted to play one since I've first laid eyes upon em, but they kinda don't mesh well with standard runners (the ones who know anything about them, that is). Is there a way around that, to make it more of a team player? Maybe go with the Sterilist or Havoc agenda and twist around its goals?