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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    Cybereyes with vision mods (most notably, but by no means limited to, a smartgun system), and at least three total IPs. (Four is ideal, but incredibly costly.) Then a weapon with whatever gewgaws like smartlinks or RC, ammo, some armor, and you're good to go. (Ignoring items that every character should have, like fake IDs and a comlink. Those are pretty easy to figure out on your own, though.)

    In keeping with the Urban Brawl theme, you can't go wrong with dermal armor, muscle replacement, or a cyberlimb to stuff things into. Implanted weaponry fits the theme, but does make getting into places legit noticeably harder.
    See i'm not sure i agree with the cyber eyes thing, you can get glasses and goggles that do all the things cyber eyes do my theory is why spend the essence there, save it for stuff external tech can't do so easy.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    But cyber eyes has a lot more capacity so you can cram in every vision enhancer there is. Even a rating 2 version offers more space than the highest rating goggles.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Cyber stuff also has the advantage that if you're surprised/asleep, it's ready to work as soon as you are. Being ambushed is very bad in SR, but it can be worse if you have to spend even a simple action getting one more piece of equipment out.

    You can get away with just one extra IP. Two is usually worthwhile though for the cost. Unless you have house rules making melee better make sure you have a concealable ranged weapon, whether you have a heavy duty ranged weapon as well is up to you but at least one concealable.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Hey all, just got a few brief but probably going to be long winded to respond to questions. I have about 2 days to become competent in the system and make a character as I didn't know we were doing this, until about now.

    I played SR4 a few times, about 5 years ago so I basically remember nothing. Does anyone have helpful links for quick lookup charts for various actions? Also any noobie guides to the system.

    Also I am mainly familiar with SR3, what major changes should I be aware of between 3 and 4? I know wireless exists, the silly rule of 100 internet passes to 1 pass in the meatspace is gone. Not that it matters, the GM said we are going to just hire a NPC hacker.

    What are simple yet reasonable ways to ensure protection from various things as I don't feel like being blindsided by something stupid that my character should know but I don't (GM isn't likely to be a jerk, but I'm always paranoid)?

    That said I am so looking forward to this, I haven't gotten to play in my favorite genre in a long time. Sci-fi > fantasy any day.
    Thanks for any and all help :D
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by avr View Post
    Cyber stuff also has the advantage that if you're surprised/asleep, it's ready to work as soon as you are.
    If you are being surprised while your asleep, not having cyber eyes is the least of your problems.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Reluctance View Post
    Cybereyes with vision mods (most notably, but by no means limited to, a smartgun system), and at least three total IPs. (Four is ideal, but incredibly costly.) Then a weapon with whatever gewgaws like smartlinks or RC, ammo, some armor, and you're good to go. (Ignoring items that every character should have, like fake IDs and a comlink. Those are pretty easy to figure out on your own, though.)

    In keeping with the Urban Brawl theme, you can't go wrong with dermal armor, muscle replacement, or a cyberlimb to stuff things into. Implanted weaponry fits the theme, but does make getting into places legit noticeably harder.
    Awsome. I had actualy planned to make this guy something similar to the Bionic Commando. Decided that right off as soon as I laid eyes on the Grapple hand. So yeah, heavy cyber ware.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    See i'm not sure i agree with the cyber eyes thing, you can get glasses and goggles that do all the things cyber eyes do my theory is why spend the essence there, save it for stuff external tech can't do so easy.
    Well, like I wrote above, I'm going to go really heavy on cyberware. Like, verging on cyberpsychosis. Not hard with crappy ware, it looks like, but I'm gonna try to fit as much stuff into this guy as possible.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Poil View Post
    But cyber eyes has a lot more capacity so you can cram in every vision enhancer there is. Even a rating 2 version offers more space than the highest rating goggles.
    If I remember right, the capacity costs for things in cyber eyes is different from the capacity costs for things in goggles/glasses/contacts. If I remember right the cyber eyes actually end up spending more capacity on the same effects, getting the external ware the same or more effective enhancements.


    On a semi-related note: Never leave home without Vision/Hearing Enhancement rating 3. +3 dice on the vast majority of perception checks is amazing, and is absurdly cheap.
    Last edited by Seerow; 2012-07-20 at 10:02 AM.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Codemus View Post
    Awsome. I had actualy planned to make this guy something similar to the Bionic Commando. Decided that right off as soon as I laid eyes on the Grapple hand. So yeah, heavy cyber ware.



    Well, like I wrote above, I'm going to go really heavy on cyberware. Like, verging on cyberpsychosis. Not hard with crappy ware, it looks like, but I'm gonna try to fit as much stuff into this guy as possible.
    Don't forget, when you have bioware and cyberware, the lesser of the two in essence costs are halved.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Random NPC View Post
    Don't forget, when you have bioware and cyberware, the lesser of the two in essence costs are halved.
    So I should mix the two huh? Hmm... yeah that could work nicely, though the cost will go through the roof. But I guess money is no object if you seek perfection, it will just take a little while.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Hey all, just got a few brief but probably going to be long winded to respond to questions. I have about 2 days to become competent in the system and make a character as I didn't know we were doing this, until about now.

    I played SR4 a few times, about 5 years ago so I basically remember nothing. Does anyone have helpful links for quick lookup charts for various actions? Also any noobie guides to the system.

    Also I am mainly familiar with SR3, what major changes should I be aware of between 3 and 4? I know wireless exists, the silly rule of 100 internet passes to 1 pass in the meatspace is gone. Not that it matters, the GM said we are going to just hire a NPC hacker.

    What are simple yet reasonable ways to ensure protection from various things as I don't feel like being blindsided by something stupid that my character should know but I don't (GM isn't likely to be a jerk, but I'm always paranoid)?

    That said I am so looking forward to this, I haven't gotten to play in my favorite genre in a long time. Sci-fi > fantasy any day.
    Thanks for any and all help :D
    http://pavao.org/shadowrun/cheatsheets/ - its what I'd use

    Things you might not have realised but are worth being paranoid over.

    RFID tags - Theoretically over everything in the game, and easily trackable. Buy a tag eraser, that'll sort them.

    Remember you need a commlink to basically do anything. It's not a bad idea to have two, keyed to different fake IDs, in case you need to burn one in a hurry.

    Uhm... think thats it. Depending on character of course. And of course, now I'm paranoid over what am I forgetting...

  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Peat View Post
    And of course, now I'm paranoid over what am I forgetting...
    I think that is normal for a shadowrunner who isn't crazy or high.
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  12. - Top - End - #222
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Codemus View Post
    I think that is normal for a shadowrunner who isn't crazy or high.
    Two questions every shadowrunner must answer:

    1) Given that I am paranoid, am I paranoid enough?
    2) Given that I am paranoid, are they really out to get ME, specifically, or just me, as a class of person?
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Peat View Post
    RFID tags - Theoretically over everything in the game, and easily trackable. Buy a tag eraser, that'll sort them.
    Get two so you can remove the tags on the first one.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Peat View Post
    http://pavao.org/shadowrun/cheatsheets/ - its what I'd use

    Things you might not have realised but are worth being paranoid over.

    RFID tags - Theoretically over everything in the game, and easily trackable. Buy a tag eraser, that'll sort them.

    Remember you need a commlink to basically do anything. It's not a bad idea to have two, keyed to different fake IDs, in case you need to burn one in a hurry.

    Uhm... think thats it. Depending on character of course. And of course, now I'm paranoid over what am I forgetting...
    Amazing link, just what I was looking for. Paranoia is always over whatever you forget :P
    What book is the tag eraser in if you can remember off hand?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Amazing link, just what I was looking for. Paranoia is always over whatever you forget :P
    What book is the tag eraser in if you can remember off hand?
    In core. Most of the good basic stuff is either in Core, or in Arsenal.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Well my party is going to take some lumps due to their lack of IPs but eh, such is life.

    In other news how do you handle grids? How many meters is 1 inch?

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimestoretiamat View Post
    Well my party is going to take some lumps due to their lack of IPs but eh, such is life.

    In other news how do you handle grids? How many meters is 1 inch?
    Well, if I remember right, a meter is 38 inches? Er... Maybe.
    At the very least, you can just draw arbitrarily sized squares and say they are 5 meters each or something.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimestoretiamat View Post
    Well my party is going to take some lumps due to their lack of IPs but eh, such is life.

    In other news how do you handle grids? How many meters is 1 inch?
    You don't need grids for shadowrun, grid based combat is kind of a war game(and by extension D&D) thing. For shadowrun, it's mostly just important to know who has cover, and the rough range that combat is occurring from. Without attacks of opportunity or flanking or anything a grid just over complicates things.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    You don't need grids for shadowrun, grid based combat is kind of a war game(and by extension D&D) thing. For shadowrun, it's mostly just important to know who has cover, and the rough range that combat is occurring from. Without attacks of opportunity or flanking or anything a grid just over complicates things.
    I would agree with you, but I feel a grid is required for battle visualization. I feel it is important to see exactly where you are in relation to everything else. Yeah, you could say I have a baby blanket mentality when it comes to that, but its my preference

    I looked at weapon ranges and all the odd numbers made me cringe. Has anyone ever played on a mat, squared or hexed?

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimestoretiamat View Post
    Well my party is going to take some lumps due to their lack of IPs but eh, such is life.

    In other news how do you handle grids? How many meters is 1 inch?
    0.0254 meters
    Or in other words ~2.5 cm to an inch
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  21. - Top - End - #231
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Codemus View Post
    Well, if I remember right, a meter is 38 inches? Er... Maybe.
    At the very least, you can just draw arbitrarily sized squares and say they are 5 meters each or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    0.0254 meters
    Or in other words ~2.5 cm to an inch
    I'm pretty sure what he wants to know is how many meters does the 1 inch squares on a grid mat represent.
    To answer the question I assume is being asked, I would say that 1 square is 1 meter.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Random NPC View Post
    I'm pretty sure what he wants to know is how many meters does the 1 inch squares on a grid mat represent.
    To answer the question I assume is being asked, I would say that 1 square is 1 meter.
    Well now I'm very glad I didn't do lmgtfy. Ya, I did 1 square per meter, or per 4 meters for extremely long range stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  23. - Top - End - #233
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    Two questions?

    Q1: Does anybody else have issues with a group that over complicates everything?

    It seems that if my group wanted to cross the street it would firstly require a full matrix data search for any information pertaining to the street both post its construction and during the initial planing and development stage.
    They would need to gain access to all street sign's, cameras and traffic droids within a 1k radius of the intended cross zone.
    They would need at least 36hrs surveillance hours on the street prior to crossing.
    They would need to perform all the same checks on at least 5 other alternative streets.
    They would need to debate the necessity of crossing the street as apposed to say tunneling under it for at least 2hrs.
    They would need to perform complete background checks on anybody that had been recorded on local cameras with in the last 3 weeks.
    and so on and so on.

    I am cool with this kind of thing when they are braking into a super secure facility but they seem to want to do it prior to stopping in at a stuffershack for a soyCaff in the morning.

    .
    A good question here is why do the players feel the need for this? Most of the time when I have seen behavior like this it is because the players feel that if they do not show detailed paranoia all the time they will pay for it. If they feel that when they say 'I go to the stuffershack to get lunch' they will be ambushed by corporate ninja death squads and that the GM will assume they just walked into it taking no precautions, left their body armour behind and did not bring a gun.
    Find out why they are doing this and then if they feel that unless the list every single precaution they make you will make them pay for it tell them that it is not true , and from then on assume that the characters take basic precautions all the time even if the player does not list them.
    Or maybe the players are paranoid micromanagers and you are doomed

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewmoreton View Post
    A good question here is why do the players feel the need for this? Most of the time when I have seen behavior like this it is because the players feel that if they do not show detailed paranoia all the time they will pay for it. If they feel that when they say 'I go to the stuffershack to get lunch' they will be ambushed by corporate ninja death squads and that the GM will assume they just walked into it taking no precautions, left their body armour behind and did not bring a gun.
    Find out why they are doing this and then if they feel that unless the list every single precaution they make you will make them pay for it tell them that it is not true , and from then on assume that the characters take basic precautions all the time even if the player does not list them.
    Or maybe the players are paranoid micromanagers and you are doomed
    Every now and then i do use the stupid things they do against them, but its been like 15+ sessions and three different games since i last did it.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    Every now and then i do use the stupid things they do against them, but its been like 15+ sessions and three different games since i last did it.
    Do you have any stories of past GM's they've had?

    I do wonder what happens during these downtime scenes, though. If they're just roleplaying fluff, you might be able to get them to loosen up by only giving them cursory examination, and then promising that downtime fluff scenes are about just that. But if you give the same attention to a jog to Stuffer Shack that you do to a B&E job, your players will understandably think that something is up, and it'll take a long time to get them out of the mindset.

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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    For spacing, I'd say that you did pretty well with 1"=1m, though keep in mind the size of things... a troll will always be a "large creature" template in that, but it's probably better than 1"=2m for standard firefights.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    One thing you may want to be aware of with 1 square=1 m is it can make melee more effective. In general, I've noticed that with that scale, you rarely have fights at ranges larger than about 25 m, because that is how big our map is. At those ranges, rifles loose one of their big advantages, and it is a more effective strategy to run at somebody with a sword. Not that that is necessarily a bad change, but it is something to be aware of.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    I still think using a grid is problematic, there are no squares, no threat ranges in shadowrun. I do occasionally use a battle map in SR, but it's not based on a grid(and often not completely to scale either), it's just a drawing of the battlefield where we can show where everyone is relative to one another, and when exact distance is needed I just figure it out.

    A grid is important when you need to know exact position, in shadowrun you just need relative position. Using a grid just creates more work, and in fact cause problems as movement rates, positioning, range, and cover don't conveniently fall into grid increments in SR.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaun View Post
    See i'm not sure i agree with the cyber eyes thing, you can get glasses and goggles that do all the things cyber eyes do my theory is why spend the essence there, save it for stuff external tech can't do so easy.
    I had a technomancer that used goggles for her smartgun. Mostly to match the steampunk look she loved to wear. But cybereyes do have the one advantage of being more difficult to pull off your opponent in a grapple. In theory.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    I still think using a grid is problematic, there are no squares, no threat ranges in shadowrun. I do occasionally use a battle map in SR, but it's not based on a grid(and often not completely to scale either), it's just a drawing of the battlefield where we can show where everyone is relative to one another, and when exact distance is needed I just figure it out.
    When I ran my SR4 game, I used graph paper and drew the layout of the room for fights. I can pencil in where people are standing and can approximate distances with the grid lines. Simple and disposable. Like Shadowrunners.
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    Default Re: Shadowrun 4th ed. Questions

    Actually my girlfriend figured it out. If 1 square is 5 feet then 5 meters is 3 squares. Granted this makes a few things such as melee a bit more difficult, but it keeps people from sprinting across the map.

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