Batman comics post New 52? take 2

[leafman]

What are Batman comics like now that the New 52 reboot has had time to settle in? I know there are or were 4 Batman titles running (Detective Comics, Batman, Batman and Robin, and Batman: The Dark Knight), are any of them any good?
I'm looking for a current on-going that shows Batman as more of a street level super hero akin to Spider-Man. I'm not really a fan of Batman fighting Superman level threats and winning all the time. Are any of the Batman titles like that?

[ThePhantasm]

I'm not too happy with it so far. This sums up some reasons why pretty well I think.

(EDIT: Erm, I should add: SPOILER ALERT. Not that there's anything spectacular to be spoiled IMHO.)

[Traab]

I have to admit, I agree with that article a lot. I mean, thats always been a big thing in dc comics from what I recall, not just in batman, but most of the dc universe, the bad guys have real stories, and motivations, and there are a number of them that are actually sympathetic to the readers. Now batman has a large supply of mad dog killers with different themes and little else to work with.

[Wolf_Haley]

It's a mixed bag, the comics that are good are really good and the bad ones are really bad. Freeze and Penguin have come out aces in New 52.

THough

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I wish they had let Nora die instead of keeping her forzen, would have given Freeze more reason to go over the deep end

[Traab]

It's a mixed bag, the comics that are good are really good and the bad ones are really bad. Freeze and Penguin have come out aces in New 52.

THough

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I wish they had let Nora die instead of keeping her frozen, would have given Freeze more reason to go over the deep end

I dunno

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keeping her alive but out of his reach might drive him even more insane in a different way.

[industrious]

They removed the more mature, mentor-like members of the Bat-family (Oracle, Grayson!Batman) in favor of younger, "hipper" versions, and took out Stephanie Brown.

I am not happy.

[ThePhantasm]

Anyone else read Batman #10 yet? I hated the "plot twist." Hoping it is a fake out and not a new part of continuity.

[leafman]

Sounds like I should continue to "vote with my wallet" as Mattel (current license holder for DC mass retail toys) says.

[Dienekes]

Anyone else read Batman #10 yet? I hated the "plot twist." Hoping it is a fake out and not a new part of continuity.

You mind posting it in spoilers for me? I'm curious.

Anyway, yeah read the first few and was disappointed enough to drop. It's not like I don't have years worth of good Bat comics I still need to read through.

They took away the Jokers face. How do you do that? Next he won't even laugh.

[ThePhantasm]

You mind posting it in spoilers for me? I'm curious.

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The identity of the Owlman behind the whole Court of Owls thing is Thomas Wayne Jr., Bruce Wayne's brother (!). That's right, somehow Bruce has a brother that his parents never told him about. Apparently some sort of accident maimed him as a child and he was sent to a special children's hospital. The idea that Bruce would have never been taken to visit him, or that Thomas would not have been mentioned in the Wayne family will, or that an accident involving the child of one of the richest families in Gotham would not have been highly publicized, is absurd. This is meant to be a shock to us and to Bruce but really it is nonsensical and stupid, and undermines the fact that the Waynes were loving parents who would never hide a brother from Bruce. I'll just end that rant there though I could probably say more.

[Kyberwulf]

Man this is why I stopped reading comic..er.. Graphic Novels, and went straight to the source material.... Soaps. Same stories and plot twists, none of the pretensticious... lol

[ThePhantasm]

none of the pretensticious... lol

None of the... what? I'm thinking you meant "pretentious," but that's an adjective not a noun. I can't really work out what you mean here.

[Devonix]

As for the development in 52 it's strange yeah but it isn't something new.

They're just bringing back a character that used to exist pre-crisis. An established part of Batman's history that was retconned out, they just retconned back in.

It's the same thing they did with Damien Wayne with making Son of the Demon cannon again.

[Buwh]

What a mess.

[Devonix]

Heh 52 is an utter mess but this isn't why.

Real reason it is a mess is that there is no proper timeline. All of the books seem to be taking place in seperate universes or at least years apart from each other.

[Devonix]

In Green Lantern comics Brightest Day happened. the Sinestro Corps War happened on Earth and lots of other stuff.


No other books acknowledge this.


Same for Barbara getting shot, Damien being born. and everything that happened in old Batman comics that aren't referenced in other books when they should be.

It's a Mess.

[Rake21]

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The identity of the Owlman behind the whole Court of Owls thing is Thomas Wayne Jr., Bruce Wayne's brother (!). That's right, somehow Bruce has a brother that his parents never told him about. Apparently some sort of accident maimed him as a child and he was sent to a special children's hospital. The idea that Bruce would have never been taken to visit him, or that Thomas would not have been mentioned in the Wayne family will, or that an accident involving the child of one of the richest families in Gotham would not have been highly publicized, is absurd. This is meant to be a shock to us and to Bruce but really it is nonsensical and stupid, and undermines the fact that the Waynes were loving parents who would never hide a brother from Bruce. I'll just end that rant there though I could probably say more.

I think Snyder explained it as:

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The "accident was caused by the Court of Owls. The Waynes hid the birth of their other son to protect him from the Talons. They buried the secret under a ton of money and funded the hospital inorder to ensure that Thamas Jr. was taken care of.

Not sure if I like it, but it is a half-way decent explanation and Snyder did hide clues throughout the story.

As for the Bat-books, it's a mixed bag.

Batman: Snyder knows how to write the charecter. I'd say it's my favorite book of the new launch (tied with Animal Man). Though, as this thread has pointed out, some folks aren't too keen on the Court of Owls story.

Batman and Robin: This one has been hit or miss. The first few issues weren't that great, but it picked up at the end of the arc. I'm interested to see where it goes.

Detective Comics: Not really a big fan of it, myself. The first issue was decent, but the later issues fell apart.

Batgirl: I miss Cass and Steph (who is really under rated). However, Gail Simone's Barbra Gordan is a strong charecter, and the stories are good. It's an enjoyable read.

Batwing: Haven't read it, but I've heard good things.

Nightwing: Haven't read or heard anything.

Batman Inc.: Did you like the original? Then I don't see a reason not to pick this one up. Though, I hope we get to see Steph and Cass back in the game.

[Faulty]

If the conversation is at all Bat-family, then Batgirl and Batwoman are my favorite of the 52, so I can suggest those, at least.

[Wolf_Haley]

All this hoohah is worth it though for the new 52 Wonder Woman, so good

[Cen]

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The identity of the Owlman behind the whole Court of Owls thing is Thomas Wayne Jr., Bruce Wayne's brother (!). That's right, somehow Bruce has a brother that his parents never told him about. Apparently some sort of accident maimed him as a child and he was sent to a special children's hospital. The idea that Bruce would have never been taken to visit him, or that Thomas would not have been mentioned in the Wayne family will, or that an accident involving the child of one of the richest families in Gotham would not have been highly publicized, is absurd. This is meant to be a shock to us and to Bruce but really it is nonsensical and stupid, and undermines the fact that the Waynes were loving parents who would never hide a brother from Bruce. I'll just end that rant there though I could probably say more.

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Hmm... is it just me or it kinda resembles this old storyline where Bane was believed to be Bruce's long lost brother?

[JoeMac307]

All this hoohah is worth it though for the new 52 Wonder Woman, so good

It's funny... DCnU Wonder Woman is a very polarizing subject. Some people love how it is referencing the mythology and going to interesting new places with the character, and others are ripping their hair out because not only has Azzarello

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killed off all the Amazons, but he also turned them into an entire race of murdering rapists who sold half their children (i.e. all male babies) into slavery. That has really PO'ed a lot of people.

I edited to add in the spoiler tag.

[JoeMac307]

If the conversation is at all Bat-family, then Batgirl and Batwoman are my favorite of the 52, so I can suggest those, at least.

Batwoman is awesome, awesome, awesome when JH Williams is pencilling. Otherwise, ehhh...

And I prefer me some Stephanie Batgirl with Barbara Oracle to Barbara Batgirl, but at least Gail Simone has a great understanding of the character.

[Wolf_Haley]

Yeah how dare Azzarello actually follow myth

[smuchmuch]

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killed off all the Amazons, but he also turned them into an entire race of murdering rapists who sold half their children (i.e. all male babies) into slavery. That has really PO'ed a lot of people.

(...Er... as someone who is not that familiar with DC universe out of the DCAu but is familiar with greek mythology, I'd like to point out that it is a lot closer to the original definition of 'amazons'.
Just sayin'

None of the... what? I'm thinking you meant "pretentious," but that's an adjective not a noun. I can't really work out what you mean here.

(I think he meant 'pretention' but used the adjective instead of the name, that's all.)

[ThePhantasm]

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Hmm... is it just me or it kinda resembles this old storyline where Bane was believed to be Bruce's long lost brother?

Yeah, it strikes me as highly derivative of that and Batman R.I.P.,

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in which Bruce was revealed to have another psychotic relative ALSO named Thomas Wayne who was ALSO part of a secret society tied closely into the history of Gotham.

So not only is it a gimmicky twist, it isn't even an original gimmicky twist.

[VA_beds]

None of the... what? I'm thinking you meant "pretentious," but that's an adjective not a noun. I can't really work out what you mean here.

(...Er... as someone who is not that familiar with DC universe out of the DCAu but is familiar with greek mythology, I'd like to point out that it is a lot closer to the original definition of 'amazons'.
Just sayin'



(I think he meant 'pretention' but used the adjective instead of the name, that's all.)

i believe he meant Pretentiousness

[TheEmerged]

RE: Wonder Woman \ Myth. Speaking for this WW fan, I like the mythic elements. I dislike the degree to which fanservice (I'm being nice) is being shoehorned into the series right now, but not enough to quit buying.

I *love* this writer's take on Hephaestus, incidentally.

[Devonix]

Yeah, it strikes me as highly derivative of that and Batman R.I.P.,

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in which Bruce was revealed to have another psychotic relative ALSO named Thomas Wayne who was ALSO part of a secret society tied closely into the history of Gotham.

So not only is it a gimmicky twist, it isn't even an original gimmicky twist.

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that

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the character of Thomas Wayne as Bruce's brother who grew up in that exact place already existed. All this story is doing is bringing the character back into continuity with a slight change to the story.

The character predates both of those stories and is a new way to bring in Owlman who is someone I also missed. Lets wait and see what happens though.

And yes in the old story it REALLY WAS his brother, not an imposter and not someone who just thought he was his brother. I for one really do hope that it is the case here as well.

[ThePhantasm]

I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that

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the character of Thomas Wayne as Bruce's brother who grew up in that exact place already existed. All this story is doing is bringing the character back into continuity with a slight change to the story.

The character predates both of those stories and is a new way to bring in Owlman who is someone I also missed. Lets wait and see what happens though.

And yes in the old story it REALLY WAS his brother, not an imposter and not someone who just thought he was his brother. I for one really do hope that it is the case here as well.

I'm aware of that. But comics go through a continual distillation process. Bad story elements get dropped because they are simply not well loved variations on the story. In this case, this character's loose footing in canon hardly made a mark on the Batman mythos... he was never explored again because no one cared. Why modern comics writers feel an impulse to resurrect failed storylines is beyond me. Just because there's precedent doesn't make it a good idea.

[TheEmerged]

Why modern comics writers feel an impulse to resurrect failed storylines is beyond me. Just because there's precedent doesn't make it a good idea.

Four words:

"I can do this right..."

It's a common challenge to inflict on yourself as a writer. I've done the "change one scene in a story/movie that doesn't change the overall plot" variant several times myself.

For some writers, however, it's an ego thing. It's one of the easy traps of a continuity shift/alternate setting and way too many writers fall for it.