Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

[Squark]

Paladins, Bards, Barbarians, Sorcerors, and Monks can't dual class or be dual classed into, since they're not available as multi-class options (Dual class choices have to be valid multi-class options).

As far as the cheesy-ness of Kensai/Mage... Sure, it's powerful, but solo plays with balance enough that it's not that much more powerful than, say, straight sorceror (Keep in mind, Sorcerors, in the hand of a capable player, can solo the game with nothing but their spells and a non-magical quarterstaff)

[Johnny Blade]

Honestly, Berserker/Mages are much more powerful than Kensai/Mages, plus you don't have to suffer through being a Kensai in BG1/early SoA.


As for dual- and multi-classing options, there are mods for that, too. I don't remember the exact ones, but they're there.

Barbarian/Druids are amazing tanks, by the way.

[Jeivar]

On the subject of dual-classing, which stronghold do you get in BG2; The original class or the replacement?

[Kish]

If this is a question about the current game, rather than the "Enhanced Edition"...

If you have an active dual-class, you can claim either stronghold, like a multiclassed character with those two classes. If one of your classes is currently inactive, you can only claim the stronghold for the other class. If you do the thief stronghold quest while a single-classed fighter, then dual-class and do the fighter stronghold class while a thief trailing 13 inactive levels of fighter, you get the stronghold of Nothing.

[Jeivar]

Wait, how long does it take for the original class levels to come back?

[The Glyphstone]

Wait, how long does it take for the original class levels to come back?

Till your new class exceeds your old class, I think. So if you Fighter 13 then Dual Class Thief, you need 14 levels of thief before your fighter levels come back.

[Kish]

You regain access to your first class when your second class is one level higher than it.

In my previous example of a Fighter 13->Thief X, you become a fighter/thief, rather than a fighter or a thief, when you level up to Thief 14.

[Starbuck_II]

Paladins, Bards, Barbarians, Sorcerors, and Monks can't dual class or be dual classed into, since they're not available as multi-class options (Dual class choices have to be valid multi-class options).

Be good if they changed that in the new version/edition.

[Jeivar]

Hm. I can't say I like that a badass warrior forgets how a sword works the moments he starts trying something else. Or the idea of being a second-level mage questing in Amn.
"Suck my single magic missile, vampire!"

[Morty]

You wouldn't be a second level mage long, though. Dual-classed characters level up quite fast in Shadows of Amn. I dual-classed Yoshimo to Fighter in some of my playthroughs. It worked pretty well. When he eventually got his Thief skills back, he was good at backstabs.

[Seharvepernfan]

You can always go with fighter/mage/thief (it's actually thief first). I did the game with an elf f/m/t, and it was very fun.

You get enough thief skills, you get two slots on your weapons (and can use anything a fighter can, though longsword is best because you can backstab with it), and can use basically any item. You get decent spellcasting.

As long as you have okay stats, you should be fine. Protip: You don't need con like you do in 3.5. Seriously. I beat the game with 7 con.

[Winthur]

You can always plan out your quests so that you complete your objectives before the class change, but take rewards from NPCs for those quests after the class change, reaping a few free levels in the process.

After multiclassing to mage, you get a ton of free XP from just memorizing scrolls as well.

Yeah, it's kind of a dumb mechanic nonetheless. It's broken and leads to broken characters.

[Kish]

You can always go with fighter/mage/thief (it's actually thief first). I did the game with an elf f/m/t, and it was very fun.

Note that you cannot dual-class more than once in the BG games.

[Philistine]

Hm. I can't say I like that a badass warrior forgets how a sword works the moments he starts trying something else. Or the idea of being a second-level mage questing in Amn.
"Suck my single magic missile, vampire!"

The fluff justification is that you still know how to do all that, but if you don't focus exclusively on the new skills you're picking up you'll never learn them properly.

And yeah, the geometric level progression means that "good-sized" rewards for a single-class character in SoA propel a dual-class character through the low levels in a big hurry.

Note that you cannot dual-class more than once in the BG games.

You also can't dual-class as an Elf, as he said he did. I think he was talking about MCing rather than DCing, though it does seem a little odd coming after several posts discussing the DCing.

[ThiagoMartell]

The fluff justification is that you still know how to do all that, but if you don't focus exclusively on the new skills you're picking up you'll never learn them properly.

Exactly. In actual AD&D, you could use the old abilities, but doing so would result in a massive XP penalty. So massive that it was not really an option unless you were in a life or death situation.
Of course, this does not translate well into a CRPG, so they dropped it.

[Starbuck_II]

Exactly. In actual AD&D, you could use the old abilities, but doing so would result in a massive XP penalty. So massive that it was not really an option unless you were in a life or death situation.
Of course, this does not translate well into a CRPG, so they dropped it.

I thought it was, "no Exp" this combat if used old abilities.

[Kish]

You also can't dual-class as an Elf, as he said he did.

Not quite. S/he said, "I did the game with an elf f/m/t."

That looks like a reference to a multiclassed character, yes, but if s/he didn't mean to suggest "...and you could do something similar by dual-classing twice," I'm at a loss for what "it's actually thief first" means.

In any case, whether Seharvepernfan intended to suggest dual-classing twice or using a multi-class character instead, it would be a mistake for Jeivar to go in planning to dual-class a character twice.

[mangosta71]

Possibly referencing the fact that the thief levels up so much faster than the other two, and thus pretty much any time after about level 4 your thief level is higher than the others?

[Divayth Fyr]

For those, who haven't seen them (and the first one was easy to miss - since the news about the delay was more important), the team has released two stories, one about Rasaad, and one about Neera. Each also has 3 voice clips.

[Cespenar]

I thought it was, "no Exp" this combat if used old abilities.

That actually makes some sense, as opposed to the "you're born anew" take in Baldur's Gate.

[Morty]

Hmmm. What's everyone's opinion about throwing daggers as a weapon? I thought my possibly-modded fighter that I intend to play once the Enchanced Edition arrives could use them, but I'm not sure how effective it will be. I remember they worked pretty decently for Shar-Teel in vanilla BG1, though.

[mangosta71]

I always just sold any throwing daggers I came by. The stacks are small and you can't put more in your quiver for automatic reloading. Also, since the sell value is per dagger, they're one of the more valuable commodities per inventory slot you can find in the early game (this also makes it expensive to keep a decent supply of them in the early game). I personally don't use thrown weapons unless they return to the thrower's hand.

[Cespenar]

There was a pretty good throwing dagger in SoA, I think, Firetooth or something, but apart from that, nah, I've never used them.

[Morty]

I thought so. The reason I had this idea was that I'd used bows, crossbows and slings before, so I wanted something different for my Fighter. I guess I'll take my chances - maybe the Enchanced Edition will add some nice magical throwing daggers.

[The Glyphstone]

Another random question with BG2 - I've been muddling around and leaving the game on for so long that I'm starting to trip story events for Chapter 3+; the only major quest I've completed is Nalia's story chain, and I'm being courted by Bodhi and Gaelan Bael. How much experience/levels should I be looking to have on my party (currently my Berzerker, Minsc, Anomen, Jaheira, Yoshimo, and Nalia) before I venture to Spellhold?

[Squark]

You have a chance to complete pretty much everything you didn't complete in Acts 2-3 in Act 5. However, the more time you spend before you go to Spellhold, the farther behind Imoen will be when you find her. I don't know of a minimum group level for Spellhold, though.

[mangosta71]

You have a chance to complete pretty much everything you didn't complete in Acts 2-3 in Act 5. However, the more time you spend before you go to Spellhold, the farther behind Imoen will be when you find her. I don't know of a minimum group level for Spellhold, though.

Correction - Chapter 6 is when you have a chance to finish things up.

One thing to you might not be aware of is that clerics receive a special ring of awesomeness when they reach level 25. If you're romancing a cleric, there's an opportunity to receive a second in chapter 6. That may be impossible to pull off with Aerie, but Anomen and Viconia can both benefit. Granted, it should probably be considered a bug or exploit...

[Kish]

Another random question with BG2 - I've been muddling around and leaving the game on for so long that I'm starting to trip story events for Chapter 3+; the only major quest I've completed is Nalia's story chain, and I'm being courted by Bodhi and Gaelan Bael. How much experience/levels should I be looking to have on my party (currently my Berzerker, Minsc, Anomen, Jaheira, Yoshimo, and Nalia) before I venture to Spellhold?

I generally go there pretty early, to get Imoen back.

If you've completed the de'Arnise Keep, I'd go right now, unless there's a specific item you want to have before you go.

(Disclaimer: Will result in chapters 4-5 being harder than they would otherwise be. On the other hand, will also avoid Imoen being behind the rest of your group in levels.)

[The Glyphstone]

You have a chance to complete pretty much everything you didn't complete in Acts 2-3 in Act 5. However, the more time you spend before you go to Spellhold, the farther behind Imoen will be when you find her. I don't know of a minimum group level for Spellhold, though.

Yeah, therein lies the rub. Too much, and Imoen will be too weak to hang out with me; too little, and I'll be trapped in Spellhold too weak to get out or survive the Underdark, and unable to backtrack and grind some more.

If you've completed the de'Arnise Keep, I'd go right now, unless there's a specific item you want to have before you go.

(Disclaimer: Will result in chapters 4-5 being harder than they would otherwise be. On the other hand, will also avoid Imoen being behind the rest of your group in levels.)

I got Celestial Fury, I don't really need much else at the moment with my protagonist dual-wielding CF and FOA+3.

The question is at what point C4+5 become 'impossible' instead of 'harder than that would be'...

[Winthur]

Yeah, therein lies the rub. Too much, and Imoen will be too weak to hang out with me; too little, and I'll be trapped in Spellhold too weak to get out or survive the Underdark, and unable to backtrack and grind some more.

Due to how the game is programmed there is more than one Imoen character file. Like all characters (if you haven't had them in the party and then abandoned them by yourself), she adjusts her levels to your own. I always do everything there is to do in Athkatla with the possible exception of the final boss of the Windspear Hills and then rescue Imoen. Especially since it makes Underdark easier.

And really, I can't say there's a way to screw it up so hard that you end up in an unwinnable situation.