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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Well, if you want a duelist, you can also make a sorcerer focusing on summons, make Deck of Many Things your core item, and at the end of every duel you could just banish the enemy into a realm of emptiness where they'd reside for eternity. Bonus points if with Vecna + Acceleration (or whatever the X-level spell that makes your spells cast superfast) + Amulet of Power you can summon a bunch of monsters in one turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Mordekaiser for president.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    I don't think anyone is stopping you from doing so. You can't stop people from disagreeing with you, though.
    "Disagreeing with you"...what an odd phrase here. He hasn't said anything that is subject to agreement; you "disagree with him" that he wants what he thinks he wants?

    It would be more accurate to say, "You can't stop people from giving you a hard time about it, though."

    At least with the currently-out game, making kits is perhaps the easiest part of modding, so he shouldn't have any trouble making what he wants if WeiDU works with the new edition of the game. Which it very well may not, which would be...unfortunate, to say the least.
    Last edited by Kish; 2012-06-24 at 08:57 PM.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by karpik777 View Post
    It's not just that, it's even worse
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    Advantages:
    -Immune to backstab, +1 to str/dex/con on character creation.
    -Movement speed, armour class and saving throws improvements according to combat experience.*
    -Gains Armor of Light ability according to his/her combat experience.**
    -Gains Heaven's Touch by becoming the LightBringer ***
    -Bonus +1 to hit/damage for every 3 levels.
    -Bonus -1 to speed factor for every 4 levels.
    -Physical, elemental and magic resistance improvements per level.****

    -Apprentice: immune to all diseases,and cannot be slowed or hasted.*****
    -Expert: Immune to charm and poison.
    -Spartian: Immune to fear.
    -Morituri: Permanent protection from evil, +1 str/dex/con bonus, regenerate 1hp/sec.
    -LightBringer: Immune to stun & blindness, +1 bonus attack per round, +1 str/dex/con bonus,regenerate 2hp/sec.

    Disadvantages:
    -May not use missile weapons or bows.
    -May not use any magic items except weapons and boots.
    -May become proficient up to grand mastery only with weapons that comply with the Way of the Sword.
    -Cannot stray away from the teachings of the Order.
    -Must be of good alignment.
    -Humans only.

    *-2AC, -2 movement speed, -2 saving throws every 7 levels (saving throws max out at -8 in the Morituri level).
    ** A combination of Kai and Berserker enrage Armour of Light provides maximum damage for the first 6 seconds plus +2 to hit/damage, -2 to Armour Class, , immunity to death magic,charm,hold,fear,maze,imprisonment,stun,sleep ,level drain,+15 hit points, +4 movement modifier,-2 attack speed for 60 seconds. After that the Morituri becomes fatigued for 30 seconds: -4 to hit/damage, +4 penalty to AC, -15 hit points, -8 movement modifier,+4 attack speed.
    *** Heaven's Touch: a combination of Mass Cure, Sunray, Nature's Beauty, Wing Buffet and Protection from Evil 10' radius spells inspired by Solafein's Moonrays and Moonfruit's Improved House Je'elat battle.
    **** Resistance to missile,crushing,piercing,slashing,fire,cold,acid, electricity 1% per level + resistance to magic 2% per level up to level 39.
    ***** Apprentice: level 7, Expert: level 14, Spartian: level 21, Morituri: level 28, LightBringer: level 35.
    That's pretty grody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    Well, if you want a duelist, you can also make a sorcerer focusing on summons, make Deck of Many Things your core item, and at the end of every duel you could just banish the enemy into a realm of emptiness where they'd reside for eternity. Bonus points if with Vecna + Acceleration (or whatever the X-level spell that makes your spells cast superfast) + Amulet of Power you can summon a bunch of monsters in one turn.
    This.
    Last edited by Scarlet-Devil; 2012-06-24 at 08:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BayardSPSR View Post
    Do you have 'craft: disturbing mental image' as a class skill?
    Attempt at converting the characters of Touhou to the world of D&D 3.5: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181050

    Attempt at converting Berserk characters to 3.5: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186155

    Attempt at converting Geralt of Rivia to 3.5:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208270

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    Bonus points if with Vecna + Acceleration (or whatever the X-level spell that makes your spells cast superfast) + Amulet of Power you can summon a bunch of monsters in one turn.
    The spell is Improved Alacrity. And it doesn't make your spells cast faster - it just allows you to start casting another spell immediately after the first finishes rather than having to wait until the next round. So what you do, is make you're set to auto-pause after every cast, cast Time Stop, then Improved Alacrity, then, with Robe of Vecna + Amulet of Power pretty much every spell you know below level 4 or 5 has a cast time of 0, so you blow through all of them. Your level 10 spells will also be reduced to 0, so cast them, too. When Time Stop wears off, avert your eyes because the whole screen is going to light up. When all the flashing stops, open your eyes and start looting.

    This is one of the times when a mage/cleric is actually kind of cool, just so you can throw a Storm of Vengeance into the mix. Not that you need to, it just looks awesome with the comets falling everywhere, and the magic missiles and flame arrows blazing off in all directions, etc.
    Delightfully abrasive in more ways than one
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    Mango:you sick, twisted bastard <3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryffon View Post
    I think Krade is protesting the use of the word mad in in the phrase mad scientist as it promotes ambiguity. Are they angry? Are they crazy? Some of both? Not to mention, it also often connotates some degree of evilness. In the future we should be more careful to use proper classification.

    Mango is a dastardly irate unhinged scientist, for realz.

    Pirate Mongoose by Kwark_Pudding

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by mangosta71 View Post
    The spell is Improved Alacrity. And it doesn't make your spells cast faster - it just allows you to start casting another spell immediately after the first finishes rather than having to wait until the next round. So what you do, is make you're set to auto-pause after every cast, cast Time Stop, then Improved Alacrity, then, with Robe of Vecna + Amulet of Power pretty much every spell you know below level 4 or 5 has a cast time of 0, so you blow through all of them. Your level 10 spells will also be reduced to 0, so cast them, too. When Time Stop wears off, avert your eyes because the whole screen is going to light up. When all the flashing stops, open your eyes and start looting.
    Yeah, I was aware of all this except for the English name of Improved Alacrity. Dunno how Gorion dies in BG1 when he seems to have access to that spell as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Mordekaiser for president.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    As for my kit... I've been thinking about restricting its access to armor and possibly ranged weapons while giving it access to the Blade's stances. Not sure how balanced it would be - it would require playtesting and tweaking, obviously. I don't like Kensai because he's just too much of a glass cannon.
    I would say go with this. It doesn't seem stronger than a Kensai/Mage or a Berserker/Cleric or heck, a pure Inquisitor.
    Last edited by Cespenar; 2012-06-25 at 01:28 AM.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    "Disagreeing with you"...what an odd phrase here. He hasn't said anything that is subject to agreement; you "disagree with him" that he wants what he thinks he wants?
    I disagree that you need to create a kit to get something you can already do in the game.
    He wants to create a kit because he wants to create a kit, not because you can't build a duelist in the standard game engine.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    You can't get what I want with the current game engine. Kensai is too much of a glass cannon for my purposes - not to mention I want him to wear armour, which Kensai can't - and a Swashbuckler is a beefed-up Thief, but still a Thief. Whether or not you call the end result a duelist is just nitpicking.
    Last edited by Morty; 2012-06-25 at 06:46 AM.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    I disagree that you need to create a kit to get something you can already do in the game.
    Either you haven't taken in anything he's said but the word "duelist," or you're arguing that you can create a lightly-armored, but not-unarmored, nimble fighter who can use all fighter weapons, have fighter hit points, and have fighter THAC0 progression, well before having access to Throne of Bhaal's high level abilities, in the unmodded game. Or, of course, you're just not admitting that there's nothing to "disagree with" because "I disagree with you" sounds better than, "I reserve my right to go right on giving you a hard time about what you want to do."
    Last edited by Kish; 2012-06-25 at 07:06 AM.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Either you haven't taken in anything he's said but the word "duelist," or you're arguing that you can create a lightly-armored, but not-unarmored, nimble fighter who can use all fighter weapons, have fighter hit points, and have fighter THAC0 progression, well before having access to Throne of Bhaal's high level abilities, in the unmodded game. Or, of course, you're just not admitting that there's nothing to "disagree with" because "I disagree with you" sounds better than, "I reserve my right to go right on giving you a hard time about what you want to do."
    Ever heard of the Stalker Ranger kit?

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Well done. You've found another thing that clearly isn't what Morty wants but technically fulfills his currently stated requirements (well, some of them; it's not particularly about being nimble). And so you get to chalk up another point, and he has to revise his description of what he wants to make yet again if he is optimistic enough to try to keep interacting with you. I really can't say I see the point of what you're doing, though.
    Last edited by Kish; 2012-06-25 at 07:56 AM.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Well done. You've found another thing that clearly isn't what Morty wants but technically fulfills his currently stated requirements (well, some of them; it's not particularly about being nimble). And so you get to chalk up another point, and he has to revise his description of what he wants to make yet again if he is optimistic enough to try to keep interacting with you. I really can't say I see the point of what you're doing, though.
    You are completely missing the point.
    If what he wants is to play a duelist under the game's engine, I'm saving him the time he would take to design, implement and playtest a kit by telling him "it can be done this way, or that way".
    If he said "I want to create a kit, because I feel like doing so" that's one thing... and that's not what he did. If what he wants is to create a kit, then I'd be helping him by giving him advice towards doing that. Which is basically what I told him beforehand - he wants people to agree with him that you can't create a duelist in the current engine, but the fact is you can and people have pointed out repeatedly (and politely, I might add). I wasn't even one of the people "giving him a hard time", so I really don't see the point of all your whiteknighting.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Kish explained my point quite well, but I'll reiterate anyway - no, you cannot make what I want with existing game engine. I've explained why. I don't want to make a kit for the sake of making a kit, so it would be nice if you'd stop repeating it. I want to make a kit because the concept behind it cannot be replicated with existing classes - you can come close, but something will always be missing.
    Last edited by Morty; 2012-06-25 at 09:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Kish explained my point quite well, but I'll reiterate anyway - no, you cannot make what I want with existing game engine. I've explained why. I don't want to make a kit for the sake of making a kit, so it would be nice if you'd stop repeating it. I want to make a kit because the concept behind it cannot be replicated with existing classes - you can come close, but something will always be missing.
    Then use one of those options, then use ShadowKeeper and add what's missing. Done. I just saved you a few days worth of work.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    For the record, I never found my kensai character to be a glass cannon, so I'm not sure what that's all about. His AC bonus from kensai may not have been equivalent to the best armor in the game, but I still easily got into negatives.

    But anyway, if I understand correctly you want THAC0, hp, and weapon ability of a fighter. All you want from thief is "nimble" and light armor - I see no mention of any of the thief skills in your list. What's the problem with a straight fighter with high dex who chooses to wear leather instead of something heavier?
    Delightfully abrasive in more ways than one
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    Mango:you sick, twisted bastard <3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryffon View Post
    I think Krade is protesting the use of the word mad in in the phrase mad scientist as it promotes ambiguity. Are they angry? Are they crazy? Some of both? Not to mention, it also often connotates some degree of evilness. In the future we should be more careful to use proper classification.

    Mango is a dastardly irate unhinged scientist, for realz.

    Pirate Mongoose by Kwark_Pudding

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by mangosta71 View Post
    But anyway, if I understand correctly you want THAC0, hp, and weapon ability of a fighter. All you want from thief is "nimble" and light armor - I see no mention of any of the thief skills in your list. What's the problem with a straight fighter with high dex who chooses to wear leather instead of something heavier?
    There's no benefit to not wearing the heaviest armor you can wear, unless they block class abilities, which they don't for a fighter. Is it really so unclear that "nimble and lightly-armored" here means "a character with dexterity-oriented abilities normal Strength-based melee fighters don't get who cannot wear heavy armor," not just, "a fighter with weird stat prioritization who chooses to use suboptimal armor"?
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by mangosta71 View Post

    But anyway, if I understand correctly you want THAC0, hp, and weapon ability of a fighter. All you want from thief is "nimble" and light armor - I see no mention of any of the thief skills in your list. What's the problem with a straight fighter with high dex who chooses to wear leather instead of something heavier?
    Because I don't want to play a suboptimal Fighter? I'm not so dedicated to this concept as to cripple my character.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    There's no benefit to not wearing the heaviest armor you can wear, unless they block class abilities, which they don't for a fighter. Is it really so unclear that "nimble and lightly-armored" here means "a character with dexterity-oriented abilities normal Strength-based melee fighters don't get who cannot wear heavy armor," not just, "a fighter with weird stat prioritization who chooses to use suboptimal armor"?
    Actually, up to now, I've only seen you mention Strenght. If he wants a Fighter type with low Str, yes, he's going to need a new kit. He never said that, though.
    Unless he adds a Str cap to such kit, though, it's going to end up seriously overpowered.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Because I don't want to play a suboptimal Fighter? I'm not so dedicated to this concept as to cripple my character.
    So you're...creating a kit that makes no changes to a straight fighter other than removing the heavy armor proficiency? Simply so that you can play a character that's exactly like what I described, but isn't "suboptimal" because he can't wear anything heavier rather than simply choosing to wear light armor?
    Delightfully abrasive in more ways than one
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    Mango:you sick, twisted bastard <3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryffon View Post
    I think Krade is protesting the use of the word mad in in the phrase mad scientist as it promotes ambiguity. Are they angry? Are they crazy? Some of both? Not to mention, it also often connotates some degree of evilness. In the future we should be more careful to use proper classification.

    Mango is a dastardly irate unhinged scientist, for realz.

    Pirate Mongoose by Kwark_Pudding

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Yes, in the finale, with twinking, the Swashbuckler's AC can get sky-high. But on the lower levels, he's still got a Thief's hit points and doesn't get additional attacks. I would know, I played a Swashbuckler from BG2 to the end.
    As for my kit... I've been thinking about restricting its access to armor and possibly ranged weapons while giving it access to the Blade's stances. Not sure how balanced it would be - it would require playtesting and tweaking, obviously. I don't like Kensai because he's just too much of a glass cannon.
    I said what it does. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that I'm just going to cut its armour proficiency from.
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by mangosta71 View Post
    So you're...creating a kit that makes no changes to a straight fighter other than removing the heavy armor proficiency?
    Is that what he said?
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    As for my kit... I've been thinking about restricting its access to armor and possibly ranged weapons while giving it access to the Blade's stances.
    ...Doesn't look like it.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Well Morty I honestly think the Beastmaster kit is exactly what you are looking for in a Duelist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Mordekaiser for president.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    I dunno, it's kinda overpowered, isn't it?
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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Nah, your duelist should totally be a Priest of Talos.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Nah, your duelist should totally be a Priest of Talos.
    Not even close, baby. Beastmaster is the best right now.
    (I'm sure Kinski invented a way to make him broken good, anyway)
    Last edited by Winthur; 2012-06-25 at 02:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Mordekaiser for president.

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    Not even close, baby. Beastmaster is the best right now.
    (I'm sure Kinski invented a way to make him broken good, anyway)
    Who the hell is Kinski anyway?

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Winthur View Post
    Not even close, baby. Beastmaster is the best right now.
    (I'm sure Kinski invented a way to make him broken good, anyway)
    Not sure how. Beastmaster trades proficiency in worthwhile weapons in exchange for summoning animals that can't threaten anyone past a certain level.
    On the subject of kits, I'm reminded how, in my search for Fighter kits, I ran across another overpowered one. It's called Anti-Paladin and it has all the abilities of an Inquisitor, Fighter's XP progression and weapon proficiency and it casts Dispel Magic on hit.
    My FFRP characters. Avatar by Kid Kris. Sigatars by Gulaghar, Kid Kris, Zefir and billtodamax, respectively.

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Pretty sure Winthur is, as I am, making a joke about people's efforts to get you to do something that isn't what you want.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Morty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Oh, I know. I was making a comment on the possibility, or lack thereof, of making Beastmaster a good kit.
    Last edited by Morty; 2012-06-26 at 08:18 AM.
    My FFRP characters. Avatar by Kid Kris. Sigatars by Gulaghar, Kid Kris, Zefir and billtodamax, respectively.

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Winthur's Avatar

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    Default Re: Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Not sure how. Beastmaster trades proficiency in worthwhile weapons in exchange for summoning animals that can't threaten anyone past a certain level.
    Nice try guy

    Also, maybe Beastmaster is one of those classes that become really strong when mixed with TuTu and played in BG1? Like Totemic Druid?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Mordekaiser for president.

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