Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition

[Squark]

Hm. Does anyone know the easiest way to make Ajantis into an Inquisitor using Shadowkeeper? He's on level 5 right now, and simply giving him the kit in Shadowkeeper doesn't actually give him its abilities.

Levelling him up might do it; If not, you're probably going to have to go in and add the correct abilities.

[Morty]

I remember that I once turned Imoen from a straight-classed Thief to the Thief/Mage dual-class she is at the beginning of SoA. I did it by bringing her to level 1, manually putting her Thaco, saves et cetera to those of a level 1 Thief and then levelling her up. But it was a bit tedious so I'm wondering if it can be made easier.

[Johnny Blade]

There are no easier solutions that I know of. Although Saving Throws are at least adjusted automatically as far as I know.

Oh, and in case of Paladin -> Inquisitor, you also need to adjust whatever you find under the Innates and Affects tabs so Ajantis actually gains and loses the correct things.

Have fun, I guess.

[Morty]

Yep, guess I have my work cut out for me. Maybe the kit-less paladin isn't so bad after all...

[Scarlet-Devil]

Can't link from work, but...

Google Sorcerer's Place.
Select Baldur's Gate 2 from the side menu.
Go to the Editors tab.
ShadowKeeper should be at or near the top of the list. That's the one you want.

Well, I got it and the enhanced edition fix I found, but I'm still having some trouble getting it to work. When I try to save any changes I make, an error message comes up saying "There has been an error recreating the game information from the source buffer. Unable to save the changes."

Anyone know what that means, and how to get around it?

[danzibr]

Well, haven't had time to play it lately due to end-of-semester business. However, that's a good thing!

I plan on waiting until a Shapeshifter mod comes out. Preferably one that makes them a little better each level rather than broken good at level 1.

[Johnny Blade]

Yep, guess I have my work cut out for me. Maybe the kit-less paladin isn't so bad after all...

Well, there are far more skeletons and zombies to fight than mages. Respawning ones, even. So, clearly, giving up the ability to turn low-level undead just for a win button against those few mages is a terrible idea.

Also, True Seeing is nice and all, but think of how often you actually run into enemies that it's useful against. Sure, there are some, but you lose Lay on Hands for it. And how often do you go up against enemies that can damage you? Literally all the time. It's just not worth it.


So, obviously, Inquisitors are garbage. Vanilla Paladin all the way.

[Squark]

Well, I'd say it's more that their preferred prey doesn't start appearing in large enough numbers until BG2. Undead hunters might be the way to go, since lay on hands isn't that spectacular, and scrolls of protect undead are less common, so the Undead Hunter's abilities are more valuable.

[Morty]

Well, there are far more skeletons and zombies to fight than mages. Respawning ones, even. So, clearly, giving up the ability to turn low-level undead just for a win button against those few mages is a terrible idea.

Also, True Seeing is nice and all, but think of how often you actually run into enemies that it's useful against. Sure, there are some, but you lose Lay on Hands for it. And how often do you go up against enemies that can damage you? Literally all the time. It's just not worth it.


So, obviously, Inquisitors are garbage. Vanilla Paladin all the way.

Indeed, and those two level 1 spells can be pretty useful when he hits level 9.

[mangosta71]

Your cleric can turn undead (and does it better than a paladin anyway). Having an inquisitor also means you don't have to tie up a bunch of valuable 3rd-level spell slots with Dispel Magic.

Still, if you want to give Ajantis a kit, his personality seems more like a cavalier than an inquisitor to me. Of course, he would lose ranged weapons if you went that route...

[Johnny Blade]

Guys, that was not a serious post.

Ogre Mages alone are justification enough for playing Inquisitors, but then you also have:

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Those Red Wizards in the woods, the ones in the BG magic shop that don't like sociology, and every single chapter end fight starting with Mulahey. And all those bounty hunter groups. And the cultists in Ulgoth's Beard. And those guys trapped on the ice island. And...

And you think so little of me that you believe I'd really call Inquisitors garbage? You're breaking my heart.



(I will say that you can't really go wrong with any kind of Paladin, though. It's a good class.)

[Squark]

Also, does anyone have a good portrait pack to recommend? I'm having trouble finding portraits for characters with just the stock portrait options.

[ArlEammon]

Also, does anyone have a good portrait pack to recommend? I'm having trouble finding portraits for characters with just the stock portrait options.

I found some, but they had alot of nude portraits.

[Pronounceable]

is the best portrait.

[Morty]

(I will say that you can't really go wrong with any kind of Paladin, though. It's a good class.)

I feel like the kit-less Paladin doesn't bring enough with it to justify the slow XP progression and inability to become a master in weapons. Turn Undead is pretty useful, but it means he's not fighting while he's doing it. Lay on Hands is a weak healing spell they can do once per day. The spells come in so late I don't think I'll even see them in BG1.

[Animastryfe]

Yep, guess I have my work cut out for me. Maybe the kit-less paladin isn't so bad after all...

Why not turn Imoen/Ajantis bad to level 0 or 1, give them their former amount of experience, and manually level them back?

[Morty]

Like we've said, it's not enough. I'll also have to manually cut all the things that Inquisitors aren't supposed to have.

[Johnny Blade]

I feel like the kit-less Paladin doesn't bring enough with it to justify the slow XP progression and inability to become a master in weapons. Turn Undead is pretty useful, but it means he's not fighting while he's doing it. Lay on Hands is a weak healing spell they can do once per day. The spells come in so late I don't think I'll even see them in BG1.

Yeah, Paladin spellcasting is simply not happening in BG1, but neither is Grand Mastery for a Fighter.

So, what Fighters really have over them is that they get bonuses to attack and damage rolls for Mastery and, later, High Mastery, whereas Paladins get all their extra abilities and +2 to all Saving Throws.

I think that's more than enough to justify slower progression, especially since they still end up at the same level as Fighters at max. XP.



Of course, if Ajantis isn't pulling his weight (he really doesn't have the best stats), giving him a kit will probably help.

[Calemyr]

The purpose is to get percentage Strength, I assume?
Speaking of Shadowkeeper editions, I'm contemplating switching Ajantis to Inquisitor. Normal Paladins just don't bring that much to the table. It'll require some work though, since he's already level 5.

I have several reasons to play a Fighter 2/Swashbuckler X. Or, if you want to play "legitimately", Berserker 2/Thief X.

1) The chance for 18/xx strength. Nice, but unimportant for me, as I CTRL+8. Rerolling for halfway decent stats is tedious, and I'm playing a freaking demigod anyway, so why not?

2) More health. May sound like a joke, but two levels of fighter hit die (plus full con bonus) can REALLY up the survivability in BG1.

3) Ability to Grandmaster. Seriously, this is nice. Grandmastery in Longswords, 2 points in Single Weapon Style, and armed with Varscona and Flametongue, and you are a very nasty, very versatile fighter.
3a) Swashbuckler also adds +(Level/5) to hit and damage.
3b) Berserker can't specialize in ranged weapons, but you couldn't in either event. You can throw daggers and axes, though. Grandmastered katana + backstab could be nasty as well.

4) Ability to wear heavy armor. I may prefer to play a thief as a thief, but sometimes the ability to hide isn't as valuable as Ankheg plate. Add in Single Weapon Style, some good dex, and a ring of protection, and you can be darn close to untouchable.
4a) Swashbuckler adds +(level/5 + 1) to AC. Try hitting me now.
4b) You may only be able to berserk once per day, but it's a handy little tide turner, especially against anything inclined to use insta-kill spells...

5) Full thieving options. Swashbuckler takes no penalties to thief skills (other than backstab), so you have all the abilities of a thief, plus reasons 1-4. And the total cost of this? 2000 xp. Whether using a berserker or a swashbuckler, it's a pretty darn good deal.

[Morty]

Yeah, Paladin spellcasting is simply not happening in BG1, but neither is Grand Mastery for a Fighter.

So, what Fighters really have over them is that they get bonuses to attack and damage rolls for Mastery and, later, High Mastery, whereas Paladins get all their extra abilities and +2 to all Saving Throws.

I think that's more than enough to justify slower progression, especially since they still end up at the same level as Fighters at max. XP.



Of course, if Ajantis isn't pulling his weight (he really doesn't have the best stats), giving him a kit will probably help.

Good points. I was too quick to dismiss the Paladin, I guess. Ajantis does deal less damage than my Skirmisher and Kivan due to his lower Strength, and I can't put the gloves that increase Thaco and damage on him, since he's wearing the gloves of dexterity already. He'd make a great caster-killer as an Inquisitor, thus leaving Neera and Branwen/Faldorn to cast other spells, but I'm not sure if it's worth all the fiddling I'd have to do. I'll think about it.

I have several reasons to play a Fighter 2/Swashbuckler X. Or, if you want to play "legitimately", Berserker 2/Thief X.

1) The chance for 18/xx strength. Nice, but unimportant for me, as I CTRL+8. Rerolling for halfway decent stats is tedious, and I'm playing a freaking demigod anyway, so why not?

2) More health. May sound like a joke, but two levels of fighter hit die (plus full con bonus) can REALLY up the survivability in BG1.

3) Ability to Grandmaster. Seriously, this is nice. Grandmastery in Longswords, 2 points in Single Weapon Style, and armed with Varscona and Flametongue, and you are a very nasty, very versatile fighter.
3a) Swashbuckler also adds +(Level/5) to hit and damage.
3b) Berserker can't specialize in ranged weapons, but you couldn't in either event. You can throw daggers and axes, though. Grandmastered katana + backstab could be nasty as well.

4) Ability to wear heavy armor. I may prefer to play a thief as a thief, but sometimes the ability to hide isn't as valuable as Ankheg plate. Add in Single Weapon Style, some good dex, and a ring of protection, and you can be darn close to untouchable.
4a) Swashbuckler adds +(level/5 + 1) to AC. Try hitting me now.
4b) You may only be able to berserk once per day, but it's a handy little tide turner, especially against anything inclined to use insta-kill spells...

5) Full thieving options. Swashbuckler takes no penalties to thief skills (other than backstab), so you have all the abilities of a thief, plus reasons 1-4. And the total cost of this? 2000 xp. Whether using a berserker or a swashbuckler, it's a pretty darn good deal.

Hm. You can become a Grandmaster as a dual-class Fighter? I thought it worked like the multi-class Fighter in that you can only specialize. Either way, clever. I wish I'd known that when I played a Swashbuckler 3 years back, but he was a half-elf and I started from SoA, so it wouldn't have worked anyway.

[VonDoom]

With Dual-Classing, it's actually very easy to benefit from two Kits.

Level your character in their original class with the Kit you want to the level you want to keep. Make a savegame.

Use Shadowkeeper to change the character's kit to the one you want. Do this before actually dual-classing. Yes, that means you'll have a Fighter with the Swashbuckler kit.

Now load the edited savegame. Dual away. You should now have all Affects and Innate Abilities from the old Kit still there lying dormant, but have the full kitted version of the new class.

I haven't tested it yet myself, but this seems to be the generally agreed-upon method noted in the BG:EE boards.

[mangosta71]

Ooo, I hadn't tried that. Kensai/assassin (with katana grandmastery for maximum stabbitiness), here I come.

[Morty]

Come to think of it, I think Swashbuckler would be a good kit for a mutliclass or dualclass Cleric/Thief. As far as I can tell, a Cleric/Thief doesn't have acces to any weapons that can backstab, but Shashbuckler doesn't have to worry about that.

[Johnny Blade]

Thieves can backstab with all melee weapons they can be proficient in, including Clubs and Staves.
Backstabbing with Cleric buffs on (Righteous Magic) can be pretty nice, I guess.

Swashbuckler AC and dual-wielding with Cleric buffs should also be useful, though.




I kind of want to see if the sword a Priest of Helm gets is a backstab weapon. Priest of Helm/Thief with a heavy backstabbing focus is a nice silly concept.

[Starbuck_II]

Thieves can backstab with all melee weapons they can be proficient in, including Clubs and Staves.
Backstabbing with Cleric buffs on (Righteous Magic) can be pretty nice, I guess.

Not in BG 1, I haven't tested it in BG EE.
But I did play Tutu and my Cleric/Thief couldn't backstab with his flail.

[Squark]

Thieves can backstab with all melee weapons they can be proficient in, including Clubs and Staves.
Backstabbing with Cleric buffs on (Righteous Magic) can be pretty nice, I guess.

Swashbuckler AC and dual-wielding with Cleric buffs should also be useful, though.




I kind of want to see if the sword a Priest of Helm gets is a backstab weapon. Priest of Helm/Thief with a heavy backstabbing focus is a nice silly concept.

I believe it's a bastard sword, so I doubt it, but it's worth a try.

[Johnny Blade]

Not in BG 1, I haven't tested it in BG EE.
But I did play Tutu and my Cleric/Thief couldn't backstab with his flail.

Yeah, you're right. I meant to write that Thieves can backstab with all melee weapons a single-classed Thief can be proficient in. My mistake.

I believe it's a bastard sword, so I doubt it, but it's worth a try.

It seems to be a long sword:

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This is interesting, because the one huge problem of Cleric/Thieves is that they can't get extra attacks easily, and the Priest of Helm's sword gives you extra attacks.
Should be useful for use with the Assassination HLA.

Of course, using the Seeking Sword ability disables spellcasting, and it's not a particularly good weapon at that point in the game, so it's probably better to go with a Priest of Lathander from a purely mechanical standpoint, but backstabbing in the name of the God of Guards is a nice gimmick character.


EDIT:
Hmmm...with Use Any Item, a Priest of Lathander dual-classed to Thief can get to 5 attacks per round with the Scarlet Ninja-To and Belm. And dualing into Thief means he can get proficient with these, unlike a multi-classed Cleric/Thief.
At this point, it's probably better to go with the Short Sword of Backstabbing or a more damaging weapon instead of Belm, and at some points you'll be outright forced to equip weapons with a higher enchantment than +3 of course, but it's still a potential 10 attacks with Improved Haste.
If you go all out with Righteous Magic, Assassination and other buffs, all these attacks are backstabs, do maximum damage, and are very likely to hit. The character also has STR 25 whenever he fights, of course.
And even if you dual out of Cleric as late as after reaching level 11 (for an extra Boon of Lathander), you need 440.000 XP to get to Thief 12, which all in all isn't that much.
Not nearly as harrowing as the Berserker 13 -> Mage routine, at least.

[WarriorPoet]

So, similar to Calemyr, how viable would this build be for playing through BG:EE all the way to BG2:EE?

Kensai 4 -> dual -> Swashbuckler X (Cheating involved, obviously)

When do the Kensai bonuses kick in?

Is it:

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L: Level
X: Bonus to hit and damage
Y: Bonus to speed factor
Z: Kai ability

Type A
L X Y Z
1 1 1 1
2 1 1 1
3 2 1 1
4 2 2 2

or

Type B
L X Y Z
1 0 0 1
2 0 0 1
3 1 0 1
4 1 1 2

Regardless, the Swashbuckler's abilities will partially compensate for the Kensai's lack of AC, get GM and 3 slots in dual-wielding, lots of bonuses to hit and damage, and thief abilities (minus backstab, not really my playstyle anways).

[Johnny Blade]

It's generally not worth it to go for Kensai unless you stick with it for a long time.
Berserker is generally better, since the only downside is not being able to specialize in ranged weapons, which the Kensai can't even use. (Both classes get around that just fine with daggers and axes anyway.)
And the Berserker Rage gives most of the things a low- to mid-level Kensai brings to the table as well as a lot of immunities. These immunities are huge, especially for a main character.

Dualing out of Fighter is best done after reaching level 7, because that's when they get an extra half attack per round.


EDIT:

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L: Level
X: Bonus to hit and damage
Y: Bonus to speed factor
Z: Kai ability

Type A
L X Y Z
1 1 1 1
2 1 1 1
3 2 1 1
4 2 2 2

or

Type B
L X Y Z
1 0 0 1
2 0 0 1
3 1 0 1
4 1 1 2

B should be right, except that you'll get extra Kai uses at levels 5, 9, 13 etc.




Also, this isn't meant to discourage you, a Kensai can work even at low levels (although he won't be good), but I'd really only recommend it to someone who knows the game quite well. Most of the options you'll have to make up for the inability to wear armor are rare potions, items with limited charges, or spells with a short duration, so you need to know when to use them and when to hold back.

[Morty]

I think I'll use Shadowkeeper to move Faldorn's club or spear proficiency to Scimitar, so she can use Rashad's Talon +2. I'm also tempted to improve her stats a bit.