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Thread: Guild Wars 2!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hullabaloo View Post
    Realistically though, you character is 2 weeks old. And you thought you could kill something big and strong? No thanks. You are a minor player in this world (see WvWvW). Maybe in the future, when you have shown your power and refined your skills you will be worthy to fight something on your own. Until then, training wheels.
    ...No. Do you really want a server limit of like, thirty people, and to spend five years of time getting to level 80?

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    Ok, so I've watched Angry Joe's review of this game, seeing how it's improved over traditional MMOs (i.e. stuff that really kept from playing games like WoW), and I'd like to ask you guys to hear your peoples' opinion of this game over others.

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    The gameplay is decent, though dungeons and raids are a bit weak currently(no tank classes[there are healer classes though] means it's hard to organize tactics, and some of the higher level ones are a bit grindy, compared to something like WoW[WoW had better questing and dungeons, and currently, more balanced pvp, but guildwars is still fairly fun])
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    The gameplay is decent, though dungeons and raids are a bit weak currently(no tank classes[there are healer classes though] means it's hard to organize tactics
    I think this is a bit of a misrepresentation. There's no holy trinity, so that means no tanks, no taunts, no healers, and no rigid class roles. There are class roles (damage, control, and support), but those three roles can be accomplished by all classes, and each class can switch through roles rather fluidly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dante & Vergil View Post
    Ok, so I've watched Angry Joe's review of this game, seeing how it's improved over traditional MMOs (i.e. stuff that really kept from playing games like WoW), and I'd like to ask you guys to hear your peoples' opinion of this game over others.
    Guild Wars 2 is a cooperative mmo, which means no fighting with other players for mobs, loot drops, resource nodes, etc. There are two forms of pvp, but they're separate from the pve part of the game, and they're really not my forte so I'll let someone else talk about them.

    There aren't traditional quests, though renown hearts come close. Most, if not all, hearts have multiple ways to complete them. In addition to hearts there are dynamic events, which are group quests that occur at intervals and sometimes in chains and often involve conflict between the various groups in an area (i.e. seraph vs. centaurs).

    Exploration is also encouraged. If you travel to a lower level zone, you'll be downscaled to a roughly equivalent level so that the content won't become trivial. You'll actually want to do this from time to time. Not only is it interesting to see areas of the game you haven't been to before, but there are skill challenges, vistas, dynamic events, and the story of the world to see.
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    Togath and I disagree apparently.
    There are no healers as he stated. Nothing has felt grindy to me at all yet. Quite the opposite in fact. There is no bloody way on Earth that WoW's PvP is more balanced. That's just rubbish. I also disagree about WoW's questing being better. The dungeons are debatable as well.
    Gw2 is hands down the most fun I've had playing an MMO in years. Literally.
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    I'm not sure about quests being better in WoW; dynamic events just make the game so much more immersive. A friend of mine reached lvl 80 really quickly. When zie told me that travelling waypoints in the high level zones was heard because there weren't any players to defend them I knew I liked this game. I love how areas of the map can change ownership and how that has actual consequences on what you can access. And the best part is that failure just means you have to deal with the consequences; but there's alsway something you can do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    The gameplay is decent, though dungeons and raids are a bit weak currently(no tank classes[there are healer classes though] means it's hard to organize tactics, and some of the higher level ones are a bit grindy, compared to something like WoW[WoW had better questing and dungeons, and currently, more balanced pvp, but guildwars is still fairly fun])
    This pretty much sums up what WoWers think about the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Togath and I disagree apparently.
    There are no healers as he stated. Nothing has felt grindy to me at all yet. Quite the opposite in fact. There is no bloody way on Earth that WoW's PvP is more balanced. That's just rubbish. I also disagree about WoW's questing being better. The dungeons are debatable as well.
    Gw2 is hands down the most fun I've had playing an MMO in years. Literally.
    This pretty much sums up what most other people think.

    It's nothing groundbreaking, but if you get it with the expectation of finding a merely OK game, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante & Vergil View Post
    Ok, so I've watched Angry Joe's review of this game, seeing how it's improved over traditional MMOs (i.e. stuff that really kept from playing games like WoW), and I'd like to ask you guys to hear your peoples' opinion of this game over others.
    It is a very good game but a 10/10 score is a bit overboard in my opinion, 9/10 maybe.
    The main problem I have is that the traditional questing is still there in the form of hearts, the only difference is that you have multiple ways to do them and that you don´t have to collect the quest or have to deliver it after finishing.
    There are some very fun heart quests and sometimes they do feel more dynamic, especially if an event happens at that time with similar goals but then there are still the collect and or kill xyz hearts which feels very grindy.

    The personal story though is extremely well done and much better then what swtor had imo, kind of sad for swtor when this was one of their main selling points ^^

    Then you have a ton of other stuff to do on top of that, exploring, jumping puzzles (which sometimes are REALLY hard, Asura area first one if you don´t "cheat" with abilities like leap of faith or windform for example^^), events which range from very fun to mediocre, and you even have some puzzles to solve.

    Overall gw2 only rarely feels like a grind, if you take part in the other activities offered, which is a huge improvement over other big mmos before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    The gameplay is decent, though dungeons and raids are a bit weak currently(no tank classes[there are healer classes though] means it's hard to organize tactics, and some of the higher level ones are a bit grindy, compared to something like WoW[WoW had better questing and dungeons, and currently, more balanced pvp, but guildwars is still fairly fun])
    I agree with the dungeons, wow has a ton of fun dungeons with cool mechanics and the first few months atleast a decent difficulty.
    I don´t particularly care about raids so I have no opinion about that.

    As for the quests, you are kidding right? Wow was one of the driving forces behind the collect 100 of x then return quests that all mmo players have to suffer through nowadays, it was and is a huge grind and you felt every second of this soul sucking activity you had to endure to get to the fun parts.

    Pvp balance in wow, well the bgs you either had the equip or you had to endure days if not weeks of being completely useless until you had it, they changed it a bit for the better but it is still very much there.

    As for balance in the arena, you mostly see the exact same setups and some classes you will very very rarely encounter, and if you are new to the arena without equip... grind.
    Then there are the fun pendulum balance swings...
    So no wows pvp balance is and most likely always will be abysmal.

    Also a thing gw2 does very much right, there are no I win items which you have to grind in countless hours of having no fun, most of what you do in lategame is for cosmetic reasons and a very very minor increase in effectivity, which is how it should be, no I win gear that makes you more or less unkillable only because you play a lot.
    Last edited by Emmerask; 2012-09-15 at 11:10 AM.

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    if it helps any, I was counting the hearts, crafting, exploration, ect.(the unique features of guildwars) as separate, and I do enjoy the new features in it, I just sort of wish there were either quests, or more hearts per zone(events are random, I think[I'm beginning to wonder if there are patterns to when they occur, after spending an hour in the crossroads the wayfinder foothills and killing the corrupted wolfmaster about once every ten minutes], though they are fun when I do mange to find one).
    Also with regards to the no healers thing, aren't staff wielding guardians, medipack+elixer gun+healing turret engineers, and water attuned staff using elementalists, healers?(at least in a similar style to the disc priests in wow, in that they both attack and heal) along with a few more traditional mmo things in addition to the unique features(also, what do you mean bout the high level rare stuff being cosmetic?, isn't the point of being high level in most mmos to get rarer and better gear?).
    Last edited by Togath; 2012-09-15 at 11:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Also with regards to the no healers thing, aren't staff wielding guardians, medipack+elixer gun+healing turret engineers, and water attuned staff using elementalists, healers?(at least in a similar style to the disc priests in wow, in that they both attack and heal)
    For the most part, no. The amount of healing those setups that you mentioned have will not keep a team alive in the same way that a dedicated healer from most other mmos will.


    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    also, what do you mean bout the high level rare stuff being cosmetic?, isn't the point of being high level in most mmos to get rarer and better gear?).
    It may be the point of most mmos, but not GW2. There's a power plateau for lvl 80 exotics. Once you reach that, what you can optionally grind for is cosmetic rewards. You don't have to, and I would imagine that the grind isn't nearly as bad as the gear treadmill of other games. But I haven't gotten that far to have firsthand knowledge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    (also, what do you mean bout the high level rare stuff being cosmetic?, isn't the point of being high level in most mmos to get rarer and better gear?).
    Yes it is what most mmos do, the problem is that exactly this item spiral in most mmos renders previous content completely obsolete and makes pvp balance pretty much impossible.
    Also with every new expansion all you have done so far becomes meaningless, you beat the last dungeon of the game and got a nice super rare weapon, too bad the expansion came out next week and the first weapon that drops is better then the sword you spend days to get...

    In short I think that item power spiral is the worst thing that ever happened to mmos, its a carrot on a stick that is used because the game is not fun enough to play without and introduces a billion new problems to the game.

    I get why raiders want it, they want a progression you have to go through and thats perfectly fine but there are a lot of ways to do this that don´t have all these issues attached to it.
    For example one could have a raid only alternative progression wher you get abilities that only work in raids, inventory items dropped that gives you the ability to pass a fire wall to even get to dungeon #2 etcetc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    if it helps any, I was counting the hearts, crafting, exploration, ect.(the unique features of guildwars) as separate, and I do enjoy the new features in it, I just sort of wish there were either quests, or more hearts per zone(events are random, I think[I'm beginning to wonder if there are patterns to when they occur, after spending an hour in the crossroads the wayfinder foothills and killing the corrupted wolfmaster about once every ten minutes], though they are fun when I do mange to find one).
    Most events are not random at all. Many of them are started by speaking to someone that has *no* icon over their heads indicating that they are of any importance at all. The others are usually on a timer. There usually isn't any randomness to them, although it certainly might seem that way until you figure out what it is that triggers them to start.
    The fact that many [or even most] people immediately run off after completing an event only makes this harder to figure out. If you hang around after an event and watch/read/listen to the NPCs, often you'll catch on that the event is about to chain, and you will then have to follow that NPC somewhere else to the next portion. But when everyone runs off after an event, and no one follows the conversation or the NPCs to the next part, if you happen to be at the next point where the event continues all you'll see is a lone NPC walk up and seemingly randomly start an event. But that event came from SOMEWHERE, only no one stuck around after the previous event long enough to see that it was leading somewhere else in a moment.

    As far as wanting more Hearts per zone: Hearts were an afterthought. They never initially existed. Alpha testers were feeling a bit lost and without direction, so Hearts were added [to the map] to existing quests so that people had an idea where to go next. With this in mind, Hearts should not be your focus. Exploration and experiencing the world should be the focus. Also with this in mind, the reason that many events have no obvious trigger point [no neon sign that says "Event starts here!"] should be clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Also with regards to the no healers thing, aren't staff wielding guardians, medipack+elixer gun+healing turret engineers, and water attuned staff using elementalists, healers?(at least in a similar style to the disc priests in wow, in that they both attack and heal) along with a few more traditional mmo things in addition to the unique features(also, what do you mean bout the high level rare stuff being cosmetic?, isn't the point of being high level in most mmos to get rarer and better gear?).
    Having one or possibly two abilities to help toss a little HP at your team =/= Healer. No profession, and no certain builds within any profession, is capable of "healing" the party in any traditional sense that any MMOer is used to.
    I actually spent the entirety of one of the BWEs specifically trying to build a healer type capable of sustaining a party. I was trying to see if the lack of the trinity could be broken by replicating one of the individual roles of the trinity independently. I failed miserably for the entire weekend. The closest thing that I could get was a DPS gimped support focused Guardian, and even then it wasn't nearly enough support to call him a "healer," nor was the pinpoint focus on that aspect worth creating a toon that could barely fight it's way out of a paper bag.
    There are no healers in Gw2.
    Last edited by Shadow; 2012-09-15 at 03:36 PM.
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    hypothetical cross of Lex Luthor and professor Moriarty.
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    So after a few days of owning Guild Wars I've decided to focus on an Engineer, specifically using the grenade kit as opposed to being a turret-y engineer like one of my friends has. I think I've gotten the hang of landing grenades quite happily and switch between weapons and the kit fairly easily.
    Any advice on playing this style of engineer in dungeons an pvp later in the game?

    In more general terms I am enjoying the events and personal story far more than running through any other MMO's with the possible exception of some dungeons on DDO but that was mainly due to playing whilst voice chatting with party members I knew whilst doing ridiculous things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    With this in mind, Hearts should not be your focus. Exploration and experiencing the world should be the focus. Also with this in mind, the reason that many events have no obvious trigger point [no neon sign that says "Event starts here!"] should be clear.
    why do you view it as obvious why there isn't a sign telling you which npcs start events? I personally can't think of any reason not to add them.
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    I think I might just give up on crafting. I try, but I can't level it up quickly enough for it to be useful and I really don't feel like grinding it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I think I might just give up on crafting. I try, but I can't level it up quickly enough for it to be useful and I really don't feel like grinding it.
    Which one are you trying to level?, cooking seems to be the fastest currently(it can also make most dyes, which is fun), followed by tailoring.
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    There are indicators for event starts though. The little orange star can indicate quest points and NPCs call for your attention for escort events and such.
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    ah, so that's what those mean
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Which one are you trying to level?, cooking seems to be the fastest currently(it can also make most dyes, which is fun), followed by tailoring.
    I'm trying to level jeweling and tailoring. I'm level 25 on that character and I have jeweling on level 40 and tailoring slightly above level 25.
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    Which areas are you leveling in?, Areas with a lot of humanoid enemies are best for cloth(you could also buy cloth items from the trading post), and mountainous areas(such as many norn zones) are probably easiest for gem(ores seem to be more common in caves and mountains)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    why do you view it as obvious why there isn't a sign telling you which npcs start events? I personally can't think of any reason not to add them.
    What I'm saying is that originally there weren't *any* indicators for where *anything* started, and that some of these things were added later to some of the people.
    The concept here is exploration and interacting with the world. Leading you around by the nose was never intended, and that's exactly what adding things to the map does.
    It's counter productive to the way the game was designed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astrella View Post
    There are indicators for event starts though. The little orange star can indicate quest points and NPCs call for your attention for escort events and such.
    Not all of them do though.
    And this is exactly my point about icons. Se Tog? They aren't on the map, and so you had no idea what they were because you ignored them. Because they aren't on the map.

    If you want to experience everything, talk to everyone. If an NPC has a name, stop and talk to them. Don't run from Hear5t to Heart and Vista to Vista on your map. Stop and listen/read/watch interactions of NPCs before/during/after events.
    Experience the world. That's the way it was designed to be played, and if you aren't doing that then you are missing a huge portion of the game.
    This is exactly the reason that people are claiming that they aren't leveling enough within a region to stay relevant to the content within that region. They are complaining that they're too low level for xXx, but they are playing the game as if it should be leading them around by the nose, and it isn't going to do that. If you slow don and experience the environment, you'll probably actually level faster than content can keep up with.
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    LLama says: Of course, the game would also have been more balanced if you all would learn not to trust Shadow
    no matter what game he's in or role he has.
    Duos says: I've read the archives... and Shadow frankly scares the bejeesus outta me. It's like playing with a
    hypothetical cross of Lex Luthor and professor Moriarty.
    If he was made of SPIDERS.

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    Do you think AN is likely to change it to make it make more sense?(the npcs starting events thingy), people wont go talk to every npcs because that's not normal.
    Running around talking to random npcs just doesn't work out in mmos as a way of giving thigns to players.
    Last edited by Togath; 2012-09-15 at 08:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Do you think AN is likely to change it to make it make more sense?(the npcs starting events thingy), people wont go talk to every npcs Because We Want To Play An Mmorpg, not go around talking to npcs.
    I doubt it, and I wouldn't want them to. If you don't talk to npcs you're not missing out on anything that you don't miss out on by choosing one dynamic event over another when there's more than one going on.

    It's part of exploring the world. You're going to miss things. I've completed the queensdale zone on three different characters, but I haven't fought the shadow behemoth since one of the beta events.
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    that does reminds me; what is the respawn timer on the shadow behemoth?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Do you think AN is likely to change it to make it make more sense?(the npcs starting events thingy), people wont go talk to every npcs because that's not normal.
    Running around talking to random npcs just doesn't work out in mmos as a way of giving thigns to players.
    It is in pokemon games. :P

    Iunno, I don't really mind it that much. Even just talking to the scouts gives you a ton of hints about possible events and things to do in a zone. Like, Snowden Drifts for example is basically a big trade route; the scouts talk about protecting traders so checking out yaks and such standing next to the road is helpful.

    And active events pop up on your map, so I'm not really seeing the issue? And it's not talking to every random NPC cause not all of them have a speech balloon text option. (You can still talk to them, they just won't have any speech options you can do.) And I don't think it's far of a stretch to talk to the captain of fort when you enter it.
    What are your preferred pronouns?
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  26. - Top - End - #596
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    Morty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Guild Wars 2!

    Quote Originally Posted by Togath View Post
    Which areas are you leveling in?, Areas with a lot of humanoid enemies are best for cloth(you could also buy cloth items from the trading post), and mountainous areas(such as many norn zones) are probably easiest for gem(ores seem to be more common in caves and mountains)
    I'm going through the Asura starting areas. I gather all the ores I run across and salvage things as much as I can. I still don't have enough materials to properly level crafting. And I refuse to grind.
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  27. - Top - End - #597
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    Trade with friends who do other professions?
    What are your preferred pronouns?
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  28. - Top - End - #598
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    The problem is that the claws/scales/poison sacs/blood are used by just about every crafting profession outside of Cooking or Jewelcrafting. It creates a rather annoying chokepoint.

    EDIT: Also, my opinions: It's pretty good but flawed.

    The hearts are a different take on quests however the cynisist in me says that they're not that different. Instead of talking to an npc you walk into an area and then do the same tasks (Just about all the hearts I've seen fall into the following categories: Kill mob X, collect item Y or destroy use object in world Z/pick up kit and use on place X (counting the transformations into this category) or kill enemy Y) for a tiny reward. What they did well was make them fit into the world. The dynamic events are a nice addition but they can sometimes get a bit frustrating when they lock you out of waypoints or merchants and whatnot.

    The dungeon balance needs a lot of tweaking since it appears that their idea of challenge was to have aoes with barely any startup that kill you within 1-2 seconds. This also makes tanks rather pointless as the only way to not die is to not get hit. It is also rather nonsensical when the 2nd dungeon is significantly easier than the first. This is something that is fixeable with some tweaking though.

    The price of the pre-tier 3 faction/race weapons is also rather strange. They are more expensive than what you could have functionally earned by that point and are visually identical to items you can otherwise find (at least the ones I've seen so far). Once again, something that can be fixed with tweaks.

    There are also some various issues I have with bugs or badly worded skill or trait explanations. Things such as "Sword skills" and "Illusion summoning skills" are rather badly defined because the traits actually only affect very specific skills. I don't know about the other professions but this is something that annoys me about the Mesmer traits. There are also some weird visual bugs (Swindler pants are skill gloves, Asura fingers/toes still clip through gloves/shoes). Another tweakable thing.

    The visuals and overall aesthetic are really nice though and while there are a lot of things that could be improved on the game is still a lot of fun. Just about every problem with the game is something that can be ironed out over time. A lot of it feels like the usual rough-around-the-edgeness you have with new MMOs.
    Last edited by Penguinizer; 2012-09-16 at 12:22 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astrella View Post
    Trade with friends who do other professions?
    I've bought some materials from the trading post, but I really don't want to have to sink money into crafting on top of everything else. The only real way for me to level it now would be to go back to the low-level areas and grind for materials that I can actually use.
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  30. - Top - End - #600
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    Proof That Rewards Don't Scale:
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    Morty, you probably collected a lot of materials for other professions that you aren't going to use. For instance, I have no plans to level cooking whatsoever, so you could try trading your cooking materials for whatever profession you are.
    Last edited by Neftren; 2012-09-16 at 01:35 PM.

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