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  1. Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Went 2-1-1 at my prerelease. The annoying thing is that that doesn't get you a better prize than 2-2. Honestly, I should have won the first and maybe second round. The first I was one turn away from winning in the third game, but time ran out. The annoying thing is that if my opponent hadn't spent a few minutes sleeving his cards at the start, we wouldn't have run out. The second round had me decide to sideboard out a card for another in the second game of it...only to have the second card be useless in the game and the original one would've really, really helped me out. Not sure if I would've won it, but I would've had a better chance.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Seeing as I have Rancor on the brain right now, I'm wondering whether it would be worth putting in my Madness deck and if so, what to take out for it.

    Current decklist:
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    Creatures:

    x4 Wild Mongrel
    x4 Basking Rootwala
    x4 Arrogant Wurm
    x4 Anger

    Non-Creature Spells:

    x4 Faithless Looting
    x3 Lightning Axe
    x4 Fiery Temper
    x4 Roar of the Wurm
    x2 Howling Mine
    x3 Green Sun's Zenith
    x2 Burning Wish

    Lands:

    x4 Wooded Foothills
    x4 Stomping Ground
    x4 Rootbound Crag
    x5 Forest
    x5 Mountain
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    I'm not all convinced by Green Sun's Zenith in the deck. You just don't have much use for it. You don't have any utility creatures to search other than Mongrel. I'd recommend adding some sort of utility toolbox.

    Also, Werebear is great in Madness.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinizer View Post
    I'm not all convinced by Green Sun's Zenith in the deck. You just don't have much use for it. You don't have any utility creatures to search other than Mongrel.
    Correct, Zenith is pretty much just there to search for Mongrels (or occassionally Rootwalas). That qualifies as a lot of use for it, though, because Mongrel has a huge target on its back and without one I'm SOL as far as tempo goes.

    Also, Werebear is great in Madness.
    Personally I'd go for Nimble Mongoose first, but as is I'm short on room for either anyways.
    Last edited by Sith_Happens; 2012-07-09 at 03:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Pulled Sands and Jace at the prerelease.

    Shenanigans ensued.
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  6. Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by Elagune View Post
    Oh, you're in the same boat as me! I also went 2-2 in my prerelease, although one of the wins was a bye and I also had a draw as well. I ran a R/G deck though, since I got Rancor a bunch of excellent 4-drops for both Red and Green. We can be 2-2 buddies!

    On another note, thanks for the help, guys. I've looked at the Delver decks, and I like it! The key components of the deck are cheap enough that I could easily justify it to myself. I'm thinking of dropping White in favour of a Mono-Blue deck, though.

    How does something like this sound?

    I've got about half of the cards necessary already from the Event Deck I picked up, and the rest are relatively cheap with the exceptions of Talrand and Jace. I can probably replace Jace with something else, but I kinda just really like the card.
    Elagune! It's awesome to hear that you're playing now. I played MonoBlue Delver when Innistrad first came out and I could recommend some stuff.

    First off, I do not feel like Jace is the right decision for this deck. His abilities aren't exactly synergistic and he's expensive. Second, Talrand is an interesting idea and I think it'll be interesting, but I don't think you want four.
    I'd personally cut down to two or three if you want. Testing will tell if you want him to stick around or drop his numbers, but four strikes me as too many. 24 Islands is a lot and Delver doesn't usually need that many, try 22 and see how it works. If you take those suggestions that leaves 5 or 6 spots open, things I liked in my MonoBlue Delver included Silver-Inlaid Dagger, Invisible Stalker and Psychic Barrier.

    Though of course, it's your deck and you should try out what you think will be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Negate aren't good enough i think.
    I'd run some in the sideboard, but I agree they don't pull their weight in the Main most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    And you need snapcasters, they are expensive but you need them.
    I disagree. Strongly. Snapcaster is in no way a necessity. If you have him, play him, if not don't worry. His utility is not enough to advocate an 80 dollar purchase to a literally brand new player. He's highly overrated anyway. Though Elagune, I definitely recommend you keep an eye out for him and try and pick him up if you can do it easily. If you don't mind paying that much then I recommend him, but you seem to want to keep a lower budget.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    Also i don't think jace will be very good in the deck.
    Agreed.
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  7. Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by Elagune View Post
    Oh, you're in the same boat as me! I also went 2-2 in my prerelease, although one of the wins was a bye and I also had a draw as well. I ran a R/G deck though, since I got Rancor a bunch of excellent 4-drops for both Red and Green. We can be 2-2 buddies!

    On another note, thanks for the help, guys. I've looked at the Delver decks, and I like it! The key components of the deck are cheap enough that I could easily justify it to myself. I'm thinking of dropping White in favour of a Mono-Blue deck, though.

    How does something like this sound?



    I've got about half of the cards necessary already from the Event Deck I picked up, and the rest are relatively cheap with the exceptions of Talrand and Jace. I can probably replace Jace with something else, but I kinda just really like the card.
    Am I correct in assuming you're gearing this up for post rotation?
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    I'm tempted to run the following in post-rotation (pending changes for reprints and new cards) for Bant 'Gro.

    Spoiler
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    Creatures:
    4x Quirion Dryad
    4x Snapcaster Mage
    4x Delver of Secrets
    3x Geist of Saint Traft

    Stuff:
    4x Rancor
    2x Runechanter's Pike

    Instants/Sorceries:
    4x Lingering Souls
    4x Ponder variant (flex slot if one doesn't exist)
    4x Unsummon
    4x Essence Scatter
    2x Negate

    Lands:
    3x Terramorphic/Evolving Wilds
    2x Glacial Fortress
    4x Hinterland Harbor
    3x Sunpetal Grove
    3x Island
    3x Plains
    2x Forest

    Considering:
    Serra Avenger

  9. Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinizer View Post
    I'm tempted to run the following in post-rotation (pending changes for reprints and new cards) for Bant 'Gro.

    Spoiler
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    Creatures:
    4x Quirion Dryad
    4x Snapcaster Mage
    4x Delver of Secrets
    3x Geist of Saint Traft

    Stuff:
    4x Rancor
    2x Runechanter's Pike

    Instants/Sorceries:
    4x Lingering Souls
    4x Ponder variant (flex slot if one doesn't exist)
    4x Unsummon
    4x Essence Scatter
    2x Negate

    Lands:
    3x Terramorphic/Evolving Wilds
    2x Glacial Fortress
    4x Hinterland Harbor
    3x Sunpetal Grove
    3x Island
    3x Plains
    2x Forest

    Considering:
    Serra Avenger
    Without black, Lingering Souls is just worse than Midnight Haunting. I recommend the switch. Looks interesting though.
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  10. Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    You know, if you aren't going to play any way to make Black mana, you could play Midnight Haunting instead of Lingering Souls. Being an Instant seems better than a Flashback cost you will never pay.

    I assume your "Ponder variant" would be Thought Scour.

    Do you really want Pike in a deck with only 18 Instants or Sorceries? I don't think you have space for 6 creature enhancers, you need the Instants and Sorceries to get value out of Delver and Snapcaster.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    You know, if you aren't going to play any way to make Black mana, you could play Midnight Haunting instead of Lingering Souls. Being an Instant seems better than a Flashback cost you will never pay.

    I assume your "Ponder variant" would be Thought Scour.

    Do you really want Pike in a deck with only 18 Instants or Sorceries? I don't think you have space for 6 creature enhancers, you need the Instants and Sorceries to get value out of Delver and Snapcaster.
    I could probably cut out the Rancors to make space. I just couldn't really think of enough good cards post-rotation that are out yet. I assume more stuff will come though.

    -4 Rancor, +4 ???

    I'll try it out on Cockatrice (since I don't feel like getting the cards on anything official yet) and give you my thoughts. I'm running Gut Shot as a temporary card.

    EDIT: Played vs. Vampires, not a massive fan so far. I think I might just go with pure UG. Although I'm not completely sure.
    Last edited by Penguinizer; 2012-07-09 at 06:04 PM.

  12. Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    You could probably keep Lingering Souls and splash black if we are getting shock lands.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinizer View Post
    I'm tempted to run the following in post-rotation (pending changes for reprints and new cards) for Bant 'Gro.

    Spoiler
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    Creatures:
    4x Quirion Dryad
    4x Snapcaster Mage
    4x Delver of Secrets
    3x Geist of Saint Traft

    Stuff:
    4x Rancor
    2x Runechanter's Pike

    Instants/Sorceries:
    4x Lingering Souls
    4x Ponder variant (flex slot if one doesn't exist)
    4x Unsummon
    4x Essence Scatter
    2x Negate

    Lands:
    3x Terramorphic/Evolving Wilds
    2x Glacial Fortress
    4x Hinterland Harbor
    3x Sunpetal Grove
    3x Island
    3x Plains
    2x Forest

    Considering:
    Serra Avenger
    People have already commented on the Lingering Souls, but I do think you should up the Geist count to four. Yeah, he's a legend, but anything with a power of 2 or greater will finish it, so you can go through them surprisingly fast.

    Are six counterspells really necessary?
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Spoiler
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    Creatures:
    4x Auger of Bolos
    4x Vampire nighthawk
    4x Ravonous Rats
    4x Mist Raven or aethersworn adept
    2x Talrand, Sky summoner

    Stuff:
    2x exliir of immortality

    Instants/Sorceries:
    2x ghostly Ficker
    4x Duress
    4x Despise
    4x Unsummon
    3x Essence Scatter
    3x Negate

    Lands:
    3x Evolving Wilds
    8 islands
    7 swamps

    debating cutting flicker and Talrand for some form of removal, thoughts?
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Why Elixir of Immortality? Seems weak and doesn't really do anything related to your strategy. Better to play a removal spell like Victim of Night, Tragic Slip, or Murder since you currently have no way to actually beat any problem creatures.

    Also, only 18 lands is INCREDIBLY sketchy with no cantrips or ways to fix your mana whatsoever. I definitely suggest increasing to 22 at minimum and probably adding some Thought Scours and/or Think Twices to help smooth out your mana draws.

    Unsummon < Vapor Snag. I suggest Vapor Snag instead, it's actually just straight better in 90% of situations. If you're going to bounce your own creatures, I suggest playing Peel from Reality instead. But even then Vapor Snag is probably still going to be better most of the time.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Once again, M13 has an infinite combo in it. Once again, it's horribly impractical.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    Once again, M13 has an infinite combo in it. Once again, it's horribly impractical.
    What is it?

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Is it 3 Oblivion Rings? It's totally 3 Oblivion Rings.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Faith's Reward + Archaeomancer + Bloodthrone Vampire + 2 Torch Fiends + 2 Gilded Lotus? Is that insanely complicated enough to quality? Archaeomancer + Faith's reward can probably enable dozens of infinite combos.

    Explanation
    Spoiler
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    Faith's Reward in hand. Archaeomancer, Vampire, Fiends and Lotuses on the field.

    Sac Archaeomancer to Vampire.
    Tap both lotuses, 1 for 3 white, 1 for 3 red.
    2 red to sac both Torch Fiends, destroying the Lotuses
    4 (3 white, 1 red) to cast Faith's reward.
    Archaeomancer enters the battlefield, returning Faith's reward to hand

    You now have Faith's in hand, Archaeomancer, Vampire, Fiends and Lotuses on the field. Back where you started. Go nuts.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    So did you just use 7 cards in order to... attack someone with an arbitrarily large Bloodthrone Vampire? Sounds super-convoluted to me! (Also requires 2 copies of Gilded Lotus, a rare. Just to make it even harder.)
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    So did you just use 7 cards in order to... attack someone with an arbitrarily large Bloodthrone Vampire? Sounds super-convoluted to me! (Also requires 2 copies of Gilded Lotus, a rare. Just to make it even harder.)
    I still vote that The 4 Horsemen is the most convoluted combo ever. It had to essentially be banned since it could feasibly take more than an hour to play properly even if you're playing at a fast pace.

    I have this spot in my heart for silly things like that.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Care to explain? That sounds awesome.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    The combo used Mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith for infinite self mill and basically relied on milling yourself and shuffling your gave into your deck with Emrakul until you hit the right cards in the correct order to combo off. The problem is that since it's an infinite loop with choices and variable outcomes you can't shortcut it.

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=309361

    Here's a thread that explains it.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinizer View Post
    The combo used Mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith for infinite self mill and basically relied on milling yourself and shuffling your gave into your deck with Emrakul until you hit the right cards in the correct order to combo off. The problem is that since it's an infinite loop with choices and variable outcomes you can't shortcut it.

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=309361

    Here's a thread that explains it.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by Penguinizer View Post
    The combo used Mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith for infinite self mill and basically relied on milling yourself and shuffling your gave into your deck with Emrakul until you hit the right cards in the correct order to combo off. The problem is that since it's an infinite loop with choices and variable outcomes you can't shortcut it.

    http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=309361

    Here's a thread that explains it.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Is this like how if someone generates a million tokens and someone else resolves Scrambleverse, the game basically goes to time because they have to somehow randomly determine who gains control of each token?

    The 4 Horsemen isn't banned, you just can't feasibly win a tournament with it. You will accumulate too many Slow Play warnings to win the tournament.
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by IcemanJRC View Post
    Elagune! It's awesome to hear that you're playing now. I played MonoBlue Delver when Innistrad first came out and I could recommend some stuff.

    First off, I do not feel like Jace is the right decision for this deck. His abilities aren't exactly synergistic and he's expensive. Second, Talrand is an interesting idea and I think it'll be interesting, but I don't think you want four.
    I'd personally cut down to two or three if you want. Testing will tell if you want him to stick around or drop his numbers, but four strikes me as too many. 24 Islands is a lot and Delver doesn't usually need that many, try 22 and see how it works. If you take those suggestions that leaves 5 or 6 spots open, things I liked in my MonoBlue Delver included Silver-Inlaid Dagger, Invisible Stalker and Psychic Barrier.

    Though of course, it's your deck and you should try out what you think will be good.


    I'd run some in the sideboard, but I agree they don't pull their weight in the Main most of the time.



    I disagree. Strongly. Snapcaster is in no way a necessity. If you have him, play him, if not don't worry. His utility is not enough to advocate an 80 dollar purchase to a literally brand new player. He's highly overrated anyway. Though Elagune, I definitely recommend you keep an eye out for him and try and pick him up if you can do it easily. If you don't mind paying that much then I recommend him, but you seem to want to keep a lower budget.



    Agreed.
    Thanks for the suggestions, Iceman. It's always great to see people I know in topics I've never been to before.

    But yeah, it looks like Jace isn't the best choice for the deck, and I guess that's fine. I'll probably still get him anyway, since I love his art and I'm thinking of making a casual mill deck. If Negate isn't good enough for the main deck, should I switch it out for Essence Scatter instead? Or, Psychic Barrier is probably better, but Phyrexia is getting rotated out in three months...

    I guess it makes sense that I should turn down the amount of Talrands. He is kind of a 2/2 with almost nothing else. Still, if I have a Gut Shot or a Gitaxian Probe or something, that's almost two 2/2s for free.

    And yeah, Snapcaster Mage isn't happening. I don't have THAT much money. Maybe if I get lucky in trades or opening a pack or something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Meta View Post
    Am I correct in assuming you're gearing this up for post rotation?
    Kind of! I'll be using some Phyrexian commons until they rotate out, but for the most part I'm just trying to build a deck that wouldn't completely fall apart the moment the rotation happens.

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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Is this like how if someone generates a million tokens and someone else resolves Scrambleverse, the game basically goes to time because they have to somehow randomly determine who gains control of each token?

    The 4 Horsemen isn't banned, you just can't feasibly win a tournament with it. You will accumulate too many Slow Play warnings to win the tournament.
    I would still try it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elagune View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions, Iceman. It's always great to see people I know in topics I've never been to before.

    But yeah, it looks like Jace isn't the best choice for the deck, and I guess that's fine. I'll probably still get him anyway, since I love his art and I'm thinking of making a casual mill deck. If Negate isn't good enough for the main deck, should I switch it out for Essence Scatter instead? Or, Psychic Barrier is probably better, but Phyrexia is getting rotated out in three months...

    I guess it makes sense that I should turn down the amount of Talrands. He is kind of a 2/2 with almost nothing else. Still, if I have a Gut Shot or a Gitaxian Probe or something, that's almost two 2/2s for free.

    And yeah, Snapcaster Mage isn't happening. I don't have THAT much money. Maybe if I get lucky in trades or opening a pack or something...



    Kind of! I'll be using some Phyrexian commons until they rotate out, but for the most part I'm just trying to build a deck that wouldn't completely fall apart the moment the rotation happens.
    Any time man, any time. But yeah, Negate should probably be either Psychic Barrier or Essence Scatter. Creatures are a much bigger problem than spells. And on Talrand, I think he'll manage to be surprising and I definitely want to know how he turns out if you get a chance to play him, but I stand by 4 being too many. Good luck with this Elagune, it's pretty good for what I assume is your first go at deck-building.
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  29. Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Why Elixir of Immortality? Seems weak and doesn't really do anything related to your strategy. Better to play a removal spell like Victim of Night, Tragic Slip, or Murder since you currently have no way to actually beat any problem creatures.

    Also, only 18 lands is INCREDIBLY sketchy with no cantrips or ways to fix your mana whatsoever. I definitely suggest increasing to 22 at minimum and probably adding some Thought Scours and/or Think Twices to help smooth out your mana draws.
    elixir is there because the deck is really reliant at heading off threats with duress, dispise, and my counter spells and I own no snap-casters, so exlir becomes "pay 3, get your spells back." I really wish I had space for ways to just go digging through my graveyard to get spells, but they're pretty much constantly out of my price range. Card draw would be nice, but well, I have really only 6 open slots and your land advice eats 4. would you feel cutting all bounce for removal + murder of crows work?

    Unsummon > Vapor snag because I own unsummon, otherwise I agree.
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  30. Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Is this like how if someone generates a million tokens and someone else resolves Scrambleverse, the game basically goes to time because they have to somehow randomly determine who gains control of each token?

    The 4 Horsemen isn't banned, you just can't feasibly win a tournament with it. You will accumulate too many Slow Play warnings to win the tournament.
    Really? I mean, High Tide has a fairly lengthy turn when it goes off, and that sometimes wins tournaments.
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