Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[Togath]

I was planning to aim for graveyard/regeneration effects, possibly with a few scavenge effects if I have room, since they seemed fun, as well as low cost(aiming for mostly 5 cmc or less for creatures) creatures, to swarm the field with, as well as buffing spells for a swarming/graveyard based deck(Rancor would be good in that case for it’s ability to return after being destroyed, correct?), and possibly a few damage spells, such as Essence Drain or Rakdos's Return if the deck ends up with room for them.

[Lea Plath]

I was planning to aim for graveyard/regeneration effects, possibly with a few scavenge effects if I have room, since they seemed fun, as well as low cost(aiming for mostly 5 cmc or less for creatures) creatures, to swarm the field with, as well as buffing spells for a swarming/graveyard based deck(Rancor would be good in that case for it’s ability to return after being destroyed, correct?), and possibly a few damage spells, such as Essence Drain or Rakdos's Return if the deck ends up with room for them.

Right now, the graveyard is the preserve of zombies, swarming is best done by tokens and the only good regenerate is on loleth troll. Scavange is fun though.

Have you considered Junk tokens, cause it seems to have exactly what you want.

GWB gives tokens of various types (lingering souls, call of conclave, midnight haunting), then you can run rancor and wild beast master for a nice big buff. You get GW and GB charms, soon to be joined by WB, and you can scavange a bigger body onto your 1/1 flyers or 1/1 beastmaster?

The only thing it lacks is the best removal, but you get abrupt decay and charm which deals with most things.

[Lea Plath]

I tossed together a quick junk token list for you to have a look at, tried to include scavenge.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/junk-tokens-08-11-12-1/

Basically make tokens that fly, scavange onto them, swing in for 4-5, or scavenge onto beastmaster and swing for damage.

I, personally, would drop all the scavange for Ajani, Garruk Relentless and Vraska, so your 1-3 mana slots are about tokens and swarming, but once you hit 4-5 you can tutor, buff a token for win or remove anything ever. Or run Garruk Primal hunter for bigger 3/3 wurm tokens over Vraska.

[IthilanorStPete]

I tossed together a quick junk token list for you to have a look at, tried to include scavenge.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/junk-tokens-08-11-12-1/

Basically make tokens that fly, scavange onto them, swing in for 4-5, or scavenge onto beastmaster and swing for damage.

I, personally, would drop all the scavange for Ajani, Garruk Relentless and Vraska, so your 1-3 mana slots are about tokens and swarming, but once you hit 4-5 you can tutor, buff a token for win or remove anything ever. Or run Garruk Primal hunter for bigger 3/3 wurm tokens over Vraska.

-Definitely drop all the scavenge.
-As for planeswalkers, you forgot the premier token 'walker; Sorin, who I'd run over any of the ones you mentioned.
-I'd also include Avacyn's Pilgrims to help out with the mana, as well as being decent with a Rancor, a Sorin buff, or Township counters.
-Speaking of Township, I'm pretty sure you want more than 1. The mana's admittedly iffy, but it's really solid.

[Togath]

Right now, the graveyard is the preserve of zombies, swarming is best done by tokens and the only good regenerate is on loleth troll. Scavange is fun though.

Have you considered Junk tokens, cause it seems to have exactly what you want.

GWB gives tokens of various types (lingering souls, call of conclave, midnight haunting), then you can run rancor and wild beast master for a nice big buff. You get GW and GB charms, soon to be joined by WB, and you can scavange a bigger body onto your 1/1 flyers or 1/1 beastmaster?

The only thing it lacks is the best removal, but you get abrupt decay and charm which deals with most things.

What are good cards for a zombie deck? Is one viable as a multi colour deck?(I was planning on black, with dips into red and green for cards such as Instigator Gang/Wildblood Pack, Bloodfray Giant or Tovolar's Magehunter, and cards with scavange from Black/Green)
Is using high power creatures, with trample added in a viable tactic?

[qwertyu63]

Random rules for solitaire play versus Cthulhu, go:

Spoiler

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To play Magic the Gathering solitaire versus Cthulhu, you will need:
1 Cthulhu die
1 MtG deck
(optional) Some paper, to track monsters and power.

Cthulhu starts with 20 life, and 1 power token. You start with 20 life.

You start by drawing your 7 cards.

Cthulhu goes first.

During Cthulhu's first main phase, he rolls the die once for every power he has (round up). Sadly, as he is not there to do so, you will have to do it for him. The die results are as follows:

Tentacle: Summon a 2/1 Attacker.
Yellow Sign: Summon a 1/2 Defender with Reach.
Cthulhu: Summon a 4/2 Attacker.
Elder Sign: Summon a 2/4 Defender.
Eye: Summon a 1/1 Attacker, and a 1/1 Defender.

In all cases, these are cast as spells, and do go to the stack. The first 4 results are rather clear, but keep track of their type.

For his combat phase, Cthulhu declares an attack with all of his creatures marked Attackers that he can (they are subject to summoning sickness, and can be stopped). Block them as you see fit.

During his second main phase, Cthulhu attempts to wear away at you. (All of these abilities are played as Sorceries, and do go on the stack)
Tentacle: No effect
Yellow Sign: No effect
Cthulhu: Cthulhu makes you discard X cards, where X is half his power.
Elder Sign: Cthulhu deals X damage to you, where X is his power.
Eye: Cthulhu gains 1 power.

When you attack, Cthulhu blocks only with his Defender creatures. He will block your creature with the highest CMC with his biggest (highest Toughness) Defender, your second highest CMC with his second biggest defender, and so on until he has blocked them all, or is out of defenders.

EXCEPTION: If your attacking creatures would kill Cthulhu, and he has untapped attackers, he will block with them in the same fashion (Biggest to highest CMC, net biggest to next highest, and so on...)

You can weaken Cthulhu by destroying his "lands". For every "land" of his you destroy, he loses one power (to a minimum of 1 power).

Reduce Cthulhu to zero life and you have forced him back into his slumber for another 1000 years. If he reduces you to zero life, or reaches 7 power, he devours you and goes on his merry way.

What do you think?

EDIT: It occurs to me that you may not know a Cthulhu dice die.

Spoiler

Show

It is a d12 with the following odds
Tentacle: 4/12
Yellow Sign: 5/12
Cthulhu: 1/12
Elder Sign: 1/12
Eye: 1/12

[IthilanorStPete]

What are good cards for a zombie deck? Is one viable as a multi colour deck?(I was planning on black, with dips into red and green for cards such as Instigator Gang/Wildblood Pack, Bloodfray Giant or Tovolar's Magehunter, and cards with scavange from Black/Green)
Is using high power creatures, with trample added in a viable tactic?

Here's what a good Zombies deck looks like these days. (Scroll down to a bit) In short, yes, multicolor with a black base is viable; adding green, red, or both is possible, though not for the cards you mention. The black core is Diregraf Ghoul, Gravecrawler, Geralf's Messenger, and Blood Artist. Red adds Falkenrath Aristocrat, burn spells, and occasionally Thundermaw Hellkite; green adds Lotleth Troll, Dreg Mangler, and Rancor.

[Togath]

Here's what a good Zombies deck looks like these days. (Scroll down to a bit) In short, yes, multicolor with a black base is viable; adding green, red, or both is possible, though not for the cards you mention. The black core is Diregraf Ghoul, Gravecrawler, Geralf's Messenger, and Blood Artist. Red adds Falkenrath Aristocrat, burn spells, and occasionally Thundermaw Hellkite; green adds Lotleth Troll, Dreg Mangler, and Rancor.

Ah. And aye, part of my reason for wanting to go red was the burn spells(especially Rakdos's Return and Pillar of Flame)

[Bucky]

What do you think?

I think the Yellow Signs should have Reach so that fliers aren't as auto-win. Also, Cthulhu should block with any summoning-sick attackers if there would otherwise be lethal power in unblocked creatures.

It also looks incredibly luck-based - the difficulty depends on how long it takes to hit the first Doom.

[qwertyu63]

I think the Yellow Signs should have Reach so that fliers aren't as auto-win. Also, Cthulhu should block with any summoning-sick attackers if there would otherwise be lethal power in unblocked creatures.

It also looks incredibly luck-based - the difficulty depends on how long it takes to hit the first Doom.

True on reach, added. Also, duh. How did I not think of that, will be added once I type it. And it has been done.

Yeah, it is rather luck based, but that is the nature of dice-based things. Doom is meant to ramp up the speed as the battle goes on. I was thinking of letting land destruction effect reduce power...

EDIT: And I have now done so. Destroy his "lands" to push him back.

EDIT 2: And now I have moved power boosts to a different die roll, to avoid power speeding up itself.

[Lea Plath]

-Definitely drop all the scavenge.
-As for planeswalkers, you forgot the premier token 'walker; Sorin, who I'd run over any of the ones you mentioned.
-I'd also include Avacyn's Pilgrims to help out with the mana, as well as being decent with a Rancor, a Sorin buff, or Township counters.
-Speaking of Township, I'm pretty sure you want more than 1. The mana's admittedly iffy, but it's really solid.

-I was just trying to include it for him.
-I actually rate Garruk way over Sorin for tokens. My reasoning is, that for Sorin, you want stacking his -2. His +1 is weak, as a 1/1 life linker isn't gonna do much. I would personally have Bloodline Keepers 2/2 Flyers. And if you minus -2 him straight away, next turn anything will kill him. If you +1 him, Dreadbore to the face. Garruk at least makes a constant supply of stronger or more useful tokens, he can tutor out your finisher, and can acts as removal in a pinch..
- Pillgrims are good, aye, replace Slitherheads with em.
-And 1-2 is the limit you want on them, I've found. Anymore and they becomes dead on the board.

What are good cards for a zombie deck? Is one viable as a multi colour deck?(I was planning on black, with dips into red and green for cards such as Instigator Gang/Wildblood Pack, Bloodfray Giant or Tovolar's Magehunter, and cards with scavange from Black/Green)
Is using high power creatures, with trample added in a viable tactic?

For zombies, as ISP said, you want Gravecrawler, Blood Artist, Diregraf Ghoul and Geralf's Messanger. However, to get a playset of each it is about 92-95 dollars total, and that is before lands and other creatures.

An example B/G/R zombie list I am running is this: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/blood...-jund-zombies/

But BR zombies, BG zombies, BUG, Grixis and even just BU zombies have been played.

Basically: B is the base zombies colour. Red gives burn spells and aggro for a psudo red deck wins deck and dreadbore. Green gives regenerate, some removal and rancor for pushing damage through. Blue gives counterspells, the zombie lord and lich, as well as the legendary and Grimgrin for a zombie comboish deck (make an infinitely big GrinGrin and swing for win or burn em down with captain).

Right now, in the global meta, BR zombies seem to be the top zombie deck.

[Fable Wright]

-I actually rate Garruk way over Sorin for tokens. My reasoning is, that for Sorin, you want stacking his -2. His +1 is weak, as a 1/1 life linker isn't gonna do much. I would personally have Bloodline Keepers 2/2 Flyers. And if you minus -2 him straight away, next turn anything will kill him. If you +1 him, Dreadbore to the face. Garruk at least makes a constant supply of stronger or more useful tokens, he can tutor out your finisher, and can acts as removal in a pinch..

I've played with and against both, and here's my opinion:
If you're running a lot of token production already, Sorin is the better 'walker. His emblems stick around and make a huge difference on the game, so just playing him and using his -2 will swing the game in your favor. If he sticks around to make more tokens, even more so. The 1/1s seem like they don't do too much, but the repeatable chump blocking and lifegain they provide actually is really powerful.

If you're not really focused on tokens, or if you're trying to Populate rather than spam tokens, Garruk is the better 'walker. He's a one-man army. The 3/3 beasts will swing the game heavily in your favor, Garruk must be dealt with before he ults, and you can occasionally -3 him to get huge numbers of cards if it looks like he isn't going to ult, swinging the game very heavily in your favor. He is certainly the more powerful walker on his own; the difference is that Sorin plays better with other tokens, and Garruk plays better just being added into a random deck.

[Lea Plath]

I was talking about Garruk Relentless. His 3G over 2GGG makes a big difference and he makes tokens and tutors out creatures.

[Togath]

How are gates(from RtR) compaired to other duel lands usable in standard?, They seem a bit weak, since they enter tapped, though there are a few(only two I've found so far; Gatecreeper Vine and Armory Guard) cards that have effects that require gates to be on the field.

[IthilanorStPete]

How are gates(from RtR) compaired to other duel lands usable in standard?, They seem a bit weak, since they enter tapped, though there are a few(only two I've found so far; Gatecreeper Vine and Armory Guard) cards that have effects that require gates to be on the field.

They're a lot worse than the shocklands, especially with Farseek around. If your budget's limited, though, you're going to be limited to them and Evolving Wilds. They are going to slow you down, so I wouldn't try building a multicolor aggro deck with a lot of Gates; slower, midrange/control decks can better tolerate lands that EtB tapped.

[Togath]

Are the land cards that add 1 uncoloured mana any use?, Or would it be better to go with the duel mana ones that don't enter the field tapped, as long as you control a basic land of the right type?

[IthilanorStPete]

Are the land cards that add 1 uncoloured mana any use?, Or would it be better to go with the duel mana ones that don't enter the field tapped, as long as you control a basic land of the right type?

Not sure what you mean by the first lands; the second kind, the M10/Innistrad duals, are quite good. (though *amazing* with shocklands)

[Fable Wright]

Are the land cards that add 1 uncoloured mana any use?, Or would it be better to go with the duel mana ones that don't enter the field tapped, as long as you control a basic land of the right type?

If you have a good manabase, the lands that add one colorless mana and have another cool effect are pretty good; they're basically another spell tied to a land to use lategame. If your manabase is iffy, and/or you want to be aggressive, the M10 lands (the ones you're thinking of; so named because they were introduced in Magic 2010) would be better choices for your deck.

[Togath]

I'll probably aim for the m10 lands first then(and maybe cross-guild promenade as well, for it's +1 any mana), and get the +1 colorless mana ones once I have a better set of lands built up.

How does this look for a list of creatures to aim for, for a W/U deck
Azorius Arrester x4
Lyev Skynight x4
Hussar Patrol x4
Azorius Justiciar x2
Serra Angel x2
Precinct Captain x2
Judge's Familiar x2
Archon of the Triumvirate x2
Angel of Serenity x1(maybe x2)
Battleflight Eagle x1(maybe x2)

A few others I had been pondering;
Azor's Elocutors(if it doesn't take damage, you win the game in 5 turns) x1
Odric, master Tactictian x1
New Prahv Guildmage x2
Knight of Glory x2
Fencing Ace x2
Skymark Roc x2
Isperia, the Supreme Judge x1

[Lea Plath]

I'll probably aim for the m10 lands first then(and maybe cross-guild promenade as well, for it's +1 any mana), and get the +1 colorless mana ones once I have a better set of lands built up.

How does this look for a list of creatures to aim for, for a W/U deck
Azorius Arrester x4
Lyev Skynight x4
Hussar Patrol x4
Azorius Justiciar x2
Serra Angel x2
Precinct Captain x2
Judge's Familiar x2
Archon of the Triumvirate x2
Angel of Serenity x1(maybe x2)
Battleflight Eagle x1(maybe x2)

A few others I had been pondering;
Azor's Elocutors(if it doesn't take damage, you win the game in 5 turns) x1
Odric, master Tactictian x1
New Prahv Guildmage x2
Knight of Glory x2
Fencing Ace x2
Skymark Roc x2
Isperia, the Supreme Judge x1

No Azor's Elocutors. He is a fun card, but not a good one. No Isperia the Supreme Judge. She comes out too late to be good for anything but EDH. Battleflight Eagle isn't great. Knight of Glory is worth main boarding.

So you have a budget for this deck?

[Androgeus]

Azor's Elocutors(if it doesn't take damage, you win the game in 5 turns) x1

If you don't take damage, not the Elocutors

[Togath]

Ah, misread that part of the elocator.
I'll probably aim for knight of glory(as well as removing the elocator, Isperia and the eagles). And the deck was meant more as speculative thing, and I more planned to keep an eye out in case I find good deals on them for the expensive cards.

[Mindfreak]

Hey, weird question here but:
I was playing Three-Headed Giant(like two-headed but with 60 HP and 3 people on a team), and we all count as one player, that I know. But with things that targets a player and mills, do all players on that team mill?

[Narkis]

Generally, things that target a player have to choose a single "Head" to affect. It's the stuff that targets each player that you have to watch out for. (Breath of Malfegor is nasty.)

[Mindfreak]

That would have been good to know...
You see, on my Three-Headed team we were facing the other team, which each "head" had a Codex Shredder out.
...
We all discarded the top card of our libraries. It was so bad that I got milled out of two Avacyn Pilgrims and a Forest that I needed quite badly.

Also, I had the best fun today at my FNM. I got out an Armada Wurm at turn 3.
Next turn it was a Growing Ranks and a Druid's Deliverance.

[Mystic Muse]

I didn't know you played Magic, Mindfreak.

[Mindfreak]

Oh yeah. Been playing since a week before Return to Ravnica launched.
I was suggested to start around that time since a nice chunk of sets were being rotated out.
I'm playing Selysna Populate, currently. It's actually quite a bit of fun to play with. The only thing that keeps shutting me down is first turn Pillar of Flames on my Arbor Elves and Avacyn Pilgrims =/

[Mystic Muse]

Oh yeah. Been playing since a week before Return to Ravnica launched.
I was suggested to start around that time since a nice chunk of sets were being rotated out.
I'm playing Selysna Populate, currently. It's actually quite a bit of fun to play with. The only thing that keeps shutting me down is first turn Pillar of Flames on my Arbor Elves and Avacyn Pilgrims =/

Ah, yeah, that happens to me too.

I'm playing a deck I like to call "Once again, the day is saved by the Powerpuff Girls."

[Fable Wright]

I'm playing Selysna Populate, currently. It's actually quite a bit of fun to play with. The only thing that keeps shutting me down is first turn Pillar of Flames on my Arbor Elves and Avacyn Pilgrims =/

Before the rotation, I loved killing mana dorks turn 1. There were so many good ways for my Zombie deck to do it... Tragic Slip, Fume Spitter, Mortarpod when I was on the play... there's something inordinately satisfying about it.

[Togath]

Just got back from the game shop, only had time to do one match(since it was the first, one of the two people running the shop helped me, and another newbie learn how to play[in this case we each used a 2013 20 card premade deck he lent us for the match]), I ended up losing, but did get my opponent to 1 life.
It was fun, and I'll probably try a few games next week, now that I know how to play.
Also, how are these prices for individual cards?, They seemed pretty good;
10 cents for a basic land.
25 cents for a common
50 cents(or maybe a dollar, can't remember which one it was) for an uncommon
3$ for a rare
and whatever the market price is for a mythic, which went up to sometimes 50+ dollars, which explains why you guys kept asking me about what my budget for this was[it's no where near enough to have 4 of several mythics in a deck](which apparently are not a 1 in 5 chance to get, and apparently I had absurdly good luck with my boosters so far, or at least I managed a mythic creature[angel of serenity] and a mythic spell[Rakdos's return] in the 10 RtR boosters I've gotten so far)