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    Default Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

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    To use this class it is very much recommended that you have Hyperconscious, Heroes Of Horror, and Libris Mortis. If you wish to know the contents of Psianimate Dead, it is a google search away, but Iím pretty sure I cannot post them here.

    The Dread Mind


    There are those who practice the art of bringing back the dead using arcane rituals and negative energy. Then there are those that manipulate the world around them only the power of her mind. These two are quite distinct practices, yet sometimes, they intersect. The result of such an intersect is known as a Dread Mind, a rare practitioner of psionic necromancy.

    Requirements:
    To qualify to become a Dread Mind, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.
    Alignment: Any nongood.
    Skills: 8 ranks in two of the following skills Knowledge (Arcana), (Psionics), (Religion), Spellcraft, Psicraft and 4 ranks in any other two.
    Feats: Corpsecrafter, Psicrystal affinity, and one metamagic or metapsionic feat.
    Spells/Powers: Ability to cast arcane spells or divine spells and manifest psionic powers. (Explicitly multiple) Additionally, the Dread Mind must be able to cast animate dead or manifest psianimate dead.
    Special: Must be able to turn or rebuke undead.

    The Dread Mind
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
    Powers/Spells Known

    1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Dual Turning, Advanced Control, Dual Nature|
    +1 level of existing class

    2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Superior Spawn 1, Psicrystal Affinity|
    +1 level of existing class

    3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Superior Spawn 2, Psicrystal Embedding|
    +1 level of existing class

    4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Superior Spawn 3, Advanced learning, Psicrystal Possession|
    +1 level of existing class

    5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Superior Spawn 4, Undead Gift, Undead Possession, Undead Leader|
    +1 level of existing class
    [/table]

    Hit Die: d4
    Class Skills: The Dread Mind class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (any) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (any) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Search (Int), and Spot (Wis).
    Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Class Features:
    All of the following are class features of the Dread Mind prestige class.
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dread Minds gain no additional proficiency in any weapon or armor.
    Spells Per Day/ Power Points Gained and Spells/Powers Known: For every level you gain in the Dread Mind prestige class, you gain spells or powers known and the respective power points or spell slots gained as if you had advanced in an arcane, divine, or manifester class possessed prior to advancing in Dread Mind. (It is a single path full progression class, akin to Dweomerkeeper)
    Dual Turning (Su): Because a Dread Mind's turning powers stem predominantly from non-divine source, you are not limited by a god's alignment. From 1st level, you have the ability to both Turn Undead and Rebuke Undead despite your alignment and turning does not require a holy symbol. Both turning and rebuking use the same pool of attempts. Additionally, this class stacks with any other classes that grant turning for purposes of determining damage and rebuking cap.
    Advanced Control (Su): The Dread Mindís undead control cap explicitly stacks with any specially gained undead control abilities. However, it still advances by 4 HD per caster or manifester level. (IE, a Dread Necromancer entering the class gets to keep going with a reduced cap.)
    Superior Spawn (Su): At 2nd level a Dread Mind gains Bolster Resistance as a bonus feat and any undead you raise keep all feats possessed in life (except for leadership or any of it's derivatives). At 3rd level you gain the ability to give your undead any elemental subtype. The undead deals an additional 1d6 damage of the selected subtype. At 4th level, you gain Nimble Bones as a bonus feat and all undead created gain a bonus +2 HP/HD as if all creations are constantly affected by the desecrate spell. At 5th level, you are capable of giving any undead you raise the spellstitched template by expending only 200 XP per point of Wisdom the undead possesses. Dread Minds may also give the undead powers of the metacreativity or psychokinesis disciples or any power with the necromancy or evil subtype as part of the spellstitching. Additionally, whenever you raise undead, you can adjust the monster's abilities as if manifesting physic reformation on it free of cost.
    Psicrystal Affinity: At 2nd level a Dread Mind receives a second psicrystal, one that possesses a separate personality, as per the Improved Psicrystal feat. However, this is a separate entity and not simply an additional personality added to the first psicrystal. If for whatever reason you may not gain a Psicrystal, you instead gain a fractured off psicrystal personality within your own mind, to assist you in mentally handling you large undead forces. This is functionally identical to recieving a psicrystal, but it possesses no physical form.
    Psicrystal Embedding (Ex): At 3rd level you can embed your psicrystal into any undead you have animated. The new merged entity can communicate with the creator from any distance telepathically and follows all orders. The merged being has the mental attributes of the psicrystal or base being, whichever are higher, and the physical attributes of the base being. This ability also allows you to embed your familiar if you possess one and so desires. If the undead embedded in is killed, the familiar or psicrystal is released unharmed, but may subsequently be targetted. If you are unable to have a Psicrystal, your extra personality evolves to a more advanced state (treat it as an Implanted Psicrystal).
    Advanced Learning (Ex): At 4th level a Dread Mind gains 2 bonus spells or powers of the necromancy or evil subtype that you can cast.
    Psicrystal Possession (Su): At 4th level you can transfer your conscious into any psicrystal that you have embedded into one of your undead minions. This is a standard action and can be done at will with infinite range although it may not cross planes. This ability functions as Stygian Dominion (Complete Psionic). This ability does not function with embedded familiars. If you cannot have a psicrystal, you instead gain the ability to send your extra personality shard out into any desired undead under your control while maintaining telepathic communication.
    Dead Gift (Ex): At 5th level a Dread Mind takes on some of the traits of the undead you've built yourself around. This ability grants you immunity to poison and immunity to negative mind affecting powers and spells. You do not change in type or gain any other undead traits.
    Undead Possession (Su): At 5th level you can assume direct control of any undead that you have created or rebuked. You gain access to any abilities that said undead possess and use the physical ability scores of the undead. This functions as Stygian Dominion (or Mind Switch if you like) with some differences. If the undead is killed, you switch to any other member of your undead legion within 100 feet or to your own body regardless of distance. Additionally, you keep every physical quality of the host body, not just the ones described by the power. The undead possessed gain control of the manifester's body only if you so desire. Alternatively, you may allow a psicrystal's personality to assume control of your body.
    Undead Leader (Ex): At 5th level a Dread Mindís caster and manifester levels stack for determining the max number of undead you can control. Additionally you can support maintaining an additional 2 HD of undead minions per caster and manifester level. In effect, this allows you to have 6 HD of raised undead per caster and manifester level, retroactively affecting any other class abilities.
    (For example, this allows a Dread Necromancer 8/ Wilder 2/ Dread Mind 5 with 26 charisma to control 154 Hit Dice of Undead using Animate Dead = 14 (6+Charisma modifier)*8 (Dread Necromancer levels) + 6*2 (Wilder levels) + 6*5 (Dread Mind levels))

    As a Dread Mind, you ARE a minion master, the abilities of the class support this life style. However, due to the lack of lost caster levels (although you will likely lose some on the way in) you can easily maintain a role as a near full caster. The most likely candidates for this class are a Dread Necromancer/ Wilder and a Ardent/ Cleric. Do note that the singular advancement means that you will pay a greater price for dipping to qualify then a theurge style class.

    For purposes of this class, corpsecrafter feats explicitly function for psion powers in addition to spells. Psianimate Dead is considered a necromancy power for this purpose.


    Varients!
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    This varient uses the awesome homebrew Ultimate Corpsecrafting: A Treatise On Applied Necromancy
    Superior Spawn (Su): At 2nd level you gain Corpsecrafter as a bonus feat. At 3rd level you gain Specialist Corpsecrafter as a bonus feat. At 4th level you gain Specialist Corpsecraft as a bonus feat again. At 5th level you gain Master Specialist as a bonus feat. Additionally, you may rebuild any undead you animated as if manifesting physic reformation free of charge. If you so desires, you may augment Psianimate Dead to give created undead the corpsecrafter abilities instead of spending gold by spending 2 more power points for each applied basic corpsecrafter trait and 4 more power points for each applied specialist trait, respecting max power points spent per manifester level.
    Last edited by Mithril Leaf; 2013-01-28 at 11:35 PM.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    With this class you'll be losing a few caster levels or manifester levels and that's never a good thing. And the abilities aren't powerful enough to make up for it. I myself love theurges, but I'm not very fond of classes that require you to have two caster levels and then advance only one.

    Also some people try to avoid the Destructive Retribution feat since it basically destroys your good undead, so you can't awaken them. Which sucks a lot if your pet dragon dies.

    All in all the loss of caster/manifester levels is not very good. I can see this being used in an epic build where caster levels aren't that important anymore if the abilities were greater. In my opinion you should provide some bigger bonuses.

    Nice idea though, I love psionics and undead
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    With this class you'll be losing a few caster levels or manifester levels and that's never a good thing. And the abilities aren't powerful enough to make up for it. I myself love theurges, but I'm not very fond of classes that require you to have two caster levels and then advance only one.

    Also some people try to avoid the Destructive Retribution feat since it basically destroys your good undead, so you can't awaken them. Which sucks a lot if your pet dragon dies.

    All in all the loss of caster/manifester levels is not very good. I can see this being used in an epic build where caster levels aren't that important anymore if the abilities were greater. In my opinion you should provide some bigger bonuses.

    Nice idea though, I love psionics and undead
    Doh, knew I forgot something. Now Destructive Retribution is chosen as active or not when you create the undead. I also added a small occasionally useful ability.
    What would you recommend to boost it? Perhaps some more undead immunities as part of the capstone? A free metamagic/power feat? Free fell animate (Converted to a metapsionic feat) would fit the concept well.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    I'll look at the class a bit closer later, the only thing that immediately catches my eye is
    The most likely candidates for this class are a Dread Necromancer/ Wilder and a Psion/ Wizard
    But at the same time one of the requirements is
    Special: Must be able to turn or rebuke undead.
    Barring the use of an obscure feat or PrC, the only base class that can meet the requirements of Arcane casting and Turning/Rebuking is the Dread Necromancer. You may consider dropping the requirement for Turn/Rebuke to allow Sorcerer/Wizards access to the class or replace Arcane casting with casting spells of X level so that Clerics can get in.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    I'll look at the class a bit closer later, the only thing that immediately catches my eye is

    But at the same time one of the requirements is

    Barring the use of an obscure feat or PrC, the only base class that can meet the requirements of Arcane casting and Turning/Rebuking is the Dread Necromancer. You may consider dropping the requirement for Turn/Rebuke to allow Sorcerer/Wizards access to the class or replace Arcane casting with casting spells of X level so that Clerics can get in.
    Right, right. Don't know what I was doing there. Gonna fix the end part. As for cleric, I'll probably allow to be either Arcane or Divine.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Well you could try and give him some really interesting abilities. Something new that doesn't exist yet. Something that combines psionic with undead. Maybe giving him the ability to become sort of a hive mind for his undead. He can possess any one of them at any time and manifest powers through them?

    The main thing here is combining the mind with the mindless undead.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    Well you could try and give him some really interesting abilities. Something new that doesn't exist yet. Something that combines psionic with undead. Maybe giving him the ability to become sort of a hive mind for his undead. He can possess any one of them at any time and manifest powers through them?

    The main thing here is combining the mind with the mindless undead.
    And there we go. Thanks for the idea!
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    Well you could try and give him some really interesting abilities. Something new that doesn't exist yet. Something that combines psionic with undead. Maybe giving him the ability to become sort of a hive mind for his undead. He can possess any one of them at any time and manifest powers through them?

    The main thing here is combining the mind with the mindless undead.
    A fun idea. There is an ability that the Effigy Master has that might be useful to adopt. You can modify one particular effigy and from then on you can sense its state and scry on it once per day. Maybe you could do something similar with your minions, letting you see through the eyes of a favored corpse.
    The idea of soul jarring from one undead to another just popped in my head. A rather silly concept.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Added an ability chain that should both beef it up and add cool flavor.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Well you could make it similar to Magic Jar or Mind Switch except that you can do it to any undead in your control. That would make for a nice epic game where the player is basically just whatever undead he decides to dominate at the time. If you advance it to a 10th level PrC you can even make him lose his physical body at 10th level and he'll basically live on through his undead minions.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    Well you could make it similar to Magic Jar or Mind Switch except that you can do it to any undead in your control. That would make for a nice epic game where the player is basically just whatever undead he decides to dominate at the time. If you advance it to a 10th level PrC you can even make him lose his physical body at 10th level and he'll basically live on through his undead minions.
    And you good sir, just got factotum'd.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    And you good sir, just got factotum'd.
    Indeed I was. I like the abilities, nice job. I'd actually want to play this now.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wavelab View Post
    Indeed I was. I like the abilities, nice job. I'd actually want to play this now.
    Sweet! Is there anything that I should clarify? Note that I'm sure there's a way to cheese your way into solo class entry, but the feat tax would probably suck.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    It's crazy enough to work. I'll have to go over it tomorrow when I'm fully awake though. I'm tired enough right now that I'm having trouble keeping my eyes open, let alone proof reading a class.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    The only thing that needs clarifying is what happens to your body when you possess an undead. It would be cool if it vanishes but it might make more sense for it to become lifeless. But it does use Mind Switch so the mindless undead would then possess your body. Might wanna change that.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Ok, I took a closer look at the class and I'll ask about a few more things.
    Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4/8 ranks or Knowledge (religion) 4/8 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 4/8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks Spellcraft/Psicraft 8 ranks. (The casting class you advance requires 8 ranks in the respective knowledge, the auxiliary requires 4 ranks)
    You might want to clean this part up a bit. It's kinda hard to read right now. Perhaps simplify it to read something more like "8 ranks in one of the following skills Knowledge (Arcana), (Psionics), (Religion), Spellcraft, Psicraft and 4 ranks in any two" or something like that.
    Duel Turning (Su): From 1st level, the Dread Mind has the ability to both Turn Undead and Rebuke Undead despite her alignment. The two abilities use the same pool however. Additionally, this class stacks with any other classes that grant turning for purposes of determining damage and rebuking cap.
    What is the purpose of this ability? It doesn't really make too much sense thematically that a necromancer also can turn undead just because nor does it really give them much of a mechanical advantage, aside from gaining access to a few Turn feats. Could you explain it a bit?
    Varied Nature (Su): The Dread Mind has strong control of negative energy, so is able to suppress it's appearance within himself. She is considered either Neutral or Evil and Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic for effects related to alignment, in whatever way most benefits the Dread Mind.
    Same as above. Why is he in possession of such a varied nature? Perhaps change it to be resistant to certain effects, like a bonus on saves against necromantic effects or a something like can use Wild Empathy type ability against mindless undead.
    Superior Spawn (Su): At 2nd level the Dread Mind gains Bolster Resistance and Hardened Flesh as bonus feats. At 3rd level the Dread Mind gains Deadly Chill and Destructive Retribution (However, you get to choose whether or not to have this feat active when creating undead) as bonus feats. At 4th level, the Dread Mind gains Nimble Bones as a bonus feat and all undead created gain a bonus +2 HP/HD as if constantly affected by the desecrate spell. (This does not stack with desecrate but does stack with corpsecrafter)
    This ability grants way too many feats. 5 feats (6 when you include Psicrystal Affinity) over the course of a few levels is a bit much. Perhaps give the option to choose 1 of 2 feats each level (while still retaining the previous unchosen options) like monks have. Alternatively you might consider giving the class access to a unique ability similiar to one or more of the feats. Instead of Deadly Chill, you might instead get Elemental Undead where you chose what energy type they have. Lastly maybe your Spawn are Superior because you can modify them in ways no one else can. Maybe you can increase certain stats by expending gp/xp or grant them limited access to SLAs/PLAs.
    Last edited by Waker; 2012-07-04 at 11:39 AM.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Ok, I took a closer look at the class and I'll ask about a few more things.

    You might want to clean this part up a bit. It's kinda hard to read right now. Perhaps simplify it to read something more like "8 ranks in one of the following skills Knowledge (Arcana), (Psionics), (Religion), Spellcraft, Psicraft and 4 ranks in any two" or something like that.

    What is the purpose of this ability? It doesn't really make too much sense thematically that a necromancer also can turn undead just because nor does it really give them much of a mechanical advantage, aside from gaining access to a few Turn feats. Could you explain it a bit?

    Same as above. Why is he in possession of such a varied nature? Perhaps change it to be resistant to certain effects, like a bonus on saves against necromantic effects or a something like can use Wild Empathy type ability against mindless undead.

    This ability grants way too many feats. 5 feats (6 when you include Psicrystal Affinity) over the course of a few levels is a bit much. Perhaps give the option to choose 1 of 2 feats each level (while still retaining the previous unchosen options) like monks have. Alternatively you might consider giving the class access to a unique ability similiar to one or more of the feats. Instead of Deadly Chill, you might instead get Elemental Undead where you chose what energy type they have. Lastly maybe your Spawn are Superior because you can modify them in ways no one else can. Maybe you can increase certain stats by expending gp/xp or grant them limited access to SLAs/PLAs.
    Dropped 2 feats from superior spawn, changed the psicrystal thing, fixed the skill system, and made superior spawn a bit more interesting. Plus I explained the reasoning behind duel turning and dropped varied nature. Check it out now.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Superior Spawn (Su): At 2nd level the Dread Mind gains Bolster Resistance as a bonus feat and any undead she raises keep all feats.
    I assume you mean that the undead retain any feats that they possessed in life?
    At 3rd level the Dread Mind gains the ability to give his undead any elemental alignment. Because of this, her undead do an additional 1d6 damage of their selected element. Additionally, it gains immunity to the selected element.
    Did you mean elemental subtype? Immunity might be a bit much, consider lowering it to resistance instead? Perhaps 10 points at the most, since they get so many other nice toys to play with.
    The Dread Mind may also give the undead powers of the metacreativity or psychokinesis disciples or any power with the necromancy subtype.
    You might want to specify that you need to have access to the abilities that you grant your undead as well as specify how many times they can use it in a day. Are the undead using them as spell/powers or are they SLA/PLAs? Are you preventing granting the use of spell/powers with expensive material components/xp or must you pay a high price when you imbue the undead?

    Some of the other stuff I'm still unsure about, as Psionics isn't my strong suit.
    Last edited by Waker; 2012-07-04 at 10:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    I assume you mean that the undead retain any feats that they possessed in life?
    Yes, yes I do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Did you mean elemental subtype? Immunity might be a bit much, consider lowering it to resistance instead? Perhaps 10 points at the most, since they get so many other nice toys to play with.
    Yeah, I'll set it to subtype. Makes more sense anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    You might want to specify that you need to have access to the abilities that you grant your undead as well as specify how many times they can use it in a day. Are the undead using them as spell/powers or are they SLA/PLAs? Are you preventing granting the use of spell/powers with expensive material components/xp or must you pay a high price when you imbue the undead?
    I had intended that as an augmentation of spellstitched. I'll try to make that clearer.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Added support for Ultimate Corpsecrafting, in case anyone uses that system.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Hyperconscious... one of my favorite books for psionics. I also love Dreamscarred Press's books as well-they specialize in psionics.
    Last edited by DarkSunLord1; 2012-08-05 at 05:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    At 2nd level the Dread Mind gains Bolster Resistance as a bonus feat and any undead she raises keep all feats possessed in life.
    I personally suggest to limit the number of feats. Your undead minions may actually become useful after epic. Especially if they don't need to fulfil the prerequisites.

    By the way, the class is already one of my favourites.
    Last edited by Network; 2012-08-05 at 06:18 PM.

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    So uh, I've made some incremental tweaks to this in the past week and figure someone might want to take another look at it.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Etymology inspires me to be annoyed at the concept of "psionic necromancy". Communicating with mental power with the dead via a psychic contact would be thanopathy. Impelling the dead to motion through psychically animating a body would be necrokinesis. A whole suite of psychic powers, some built on existing spells yes, but some wholly new conceptually could be built from this. If you wanted to label it all as one, then I'd likely think that psychomortebolics would work as well.

    That's just me. Anyhow, wordsmithing aside, the class has potential, I think by making it an arcane or divine hybrid you're limiting what this can bring to the table. I do like embedded psicrystal undead, but I'd not give an extra psicrystal, but I'd make slivers of the original one that get implanted into the corpse to animate it. Additionally, powers along the lines of imprisoning or compelling spirits into the psicrystal as a medium for an army of the dead (these spirits could be in the ectoplasmic crystalline slivers from the psicrystal). Ectoplasm use is important with this as well, as providing a physical form for incorporeal undead with shaping is neat too. If nothing else, your class is inspiring me to ideas, and I'd be happy to share them with you further.

    -X
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2013-01-28 at 01:38 AM.
    Chris Bennett
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    I personally suggest to limit the number of feats. Your undead minions may actually become useful after epic. Especially if they don't need to fulfil the prerequisites.
    Still not corrected, and as I'll explain further, the ability of undead minions to retain their feats has some... implications.

    First, the benefits of some feats would be simply nasty for mindless undead (it's not a problem if it has some intellect, but what about Leadership?). It's why I suggest requirements in mental ability scores and character levels should still apply. Maybe spellcasting too, but nine times out of ten, they will either be unable to use the feat or retain their ability anyway.

    I'm totally with the idea of letting your army of the dead retain feats such as Dodge, Weapon Focus and the like. After all, it reinforces the importance of selecting potential minions instead of simply reanimating a random bunch of bodies. But shouldn't a limit be put on it? I mean, yes, even with its 15+ feats, the 16th-level zombie fighter can be destroyed in one hit, but the Dread Mind can compensate for it, and it will still inflict as much (well, a little bit more) damage than before.

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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Still not corrected, and as I'll explain further, the ability of undead minions to retain their feats has some... implications.

    First, the benefits of some feats would be simply nasty for mindless undead (it's not a problem if it has some intellect, but what about Leadership?). It's why I suggest requirements in mental ability scores and character levels should still apply. Maybe spellcasting too, but nine times out of ten, they will either be unable to use the feat or retain their ability anyway.

    I'm totally with the idea of letting your army of the dead retain feats such as Dodge, Weapon Focus and the like. After all, it reinforces the importance of selecting potential minions instead of simply reanimating a random bunch of bodies. But shouldn't a limit be put on it? I mean, yes, even with its 15+ feats, the 16th-level zombie fighter can be destroyed in one hit, but the Dread Mind can compensate for it, and it will still inflict as much (well, a little bit more) damage than before.
    Good idea about having requirements for feats being physical in nature, or some ability retained by the undead. On the other hand, what feats besides Leadership actually break anything? It's pretty much universally agreed that most feats that aren't ubercharger chains or metamagic just aren't that great overall. And if you manage to kill an ubercharger that the DM throws at you, I feel that the corpse should keep the value. Would a limit of simply no leadership make sense? They can't get magic anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Etymology inspires me to be annoyed at the concept of "psionic necromancy". Communicating with mental power with the dead via a psychic contact would be thanopathy. Impelling the dead to motion through psychically animating a body would be necrokinesis. A whole suite of psychic powers, some built on existing spells yes, but some wholly new conceptually could be built from this. If you wanted to label it all as one, then I'd likely think that psychomortebolics would work as well.

    That's just me. Anyhow, wordsmithing aside, the class has potential, I think by making it an arcane or divine hybrid you're limiting what this can bring to the table. I do like embedded psicrystal undead, but I'd not give an extra psicrystal, but I'd make slivers of the original one that get implanted into the corpse to animate it. Additionally, powers along the lines of imprisoning or compelling spirits into the psicrystal as a medium for an army of the dead (these spirits could be in the ectoplasmic crystalline slivers from the psicrystal). Ectoplasm use is important with this as well, as providing a physical form for incorporeal undead with shaping is neat too. If nothing else, your class is inspiring me to ideas, and I'd be happy to share them with you further.

    -X
    So your main issue with the class isn't the balance, but the content. The main issue is that I'm feeling lazy and have no desire to homebrew a large set of new psionic powers based on psychomortebolics. I'd totally work with you if you want to joint homebrew a larger set to fulfill the niche if you're up for it. Maybe leave this one as is and remake a class afterwards into a 10 level long one that starts at 5 and is entirely psionic.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    So your main issue with the class isn't the balance, but the content. The main issue is that I'm feeling lazy and have no desire to homebrew a large set of new psionic powers based on psychomortebolics. I'd totally work with you if you want to joint homebrew a larger set to fulfill the niche if you're up for it. Maybe leave this one as is and remake a class afterwards into a 10 level long one that starts at 5 and is entirely psionic.
    Its nothing personal. The class as is, as I said, has potential (which, in retrospect, is kind of a backhanded way of saying I like it but I would do it differently, mea culpa as that was not intended) and I love how you make the psicrystal interact with the dead. Good stuff there.

    As for psychomortebolics, when I am finished with the current project I'm working on, should be very soon, I'll hit you up with some ideas to talk about!

    Cheers,
    -X
    Chris Bennett
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    The Path of War: An OGL Tome of Battle for the Pathfinder game system, by Dreamscarred Press, available now!!
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  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Default Re: Psionic Necromancy (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Its nothing personal. The class as is, as I said, has potential (which, in retrospect, is kind of a backhanded way of saying I like it but I would do it differently, mea culpa as that was not intended) and I love how you make the psicrystal interact with the dead. Good stuff there.

    As for psychomortebolics, when I am finished with the current project I'm working on, should be very soon, I'll hit you up with some ideas to talk about!

    Cheers,
    -X
    No offense taken, you were pretty much right. I'd do it differently if I were to make powers for it myself instead of just using existing ones.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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