Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVI: "Terminator? I hardly know 'er!"

[Cheesegear]

Space Marines: All-bike army is possibly, but bland. You have Bikes, or Attacks Bikes, and that's it. No Elite Troops (why can't Honour Guard ride bikes, dammit?)

Ravenwing: Same as above - Land Speeders are nice, but I *want* a bodyguard to ride with my Warlord, which these guys also don't have.

I may have done this exercise before...

Dark Angels and 'Marines are Battle Brothers. Sammael can ride with a Command Squad. I mean, a good one. It's not the best idea. But it's the best army you can make by going 'All Bikers'.

Sammael - 205 Points
Ravenwing (x3) - 120 Points

Is your minimum tax. You can then put Sammael in your 'Marine Command Squad.

Otherwise, Orks.
Whilst not perfect, a Blood Angel Biker army is incredibly powerful.

[Wraith]

I may have done this exercise before...

Not recently, and nowhere that I could find easily. If you have any better idea where it is, maybe get it added to the OP?

Sammael - 205 Points
Ravenwing (x3) - 120 Points

Is your minimum tax. You can then put Sammael in your 'Marine Command Squad.

Does it state whether or not Sammaels count as a "Space Marine Captain" in any of the FAQs? It says that he's a Company Master in his fluff, which is essentially the same thing, but he specifically isn't listed as one of the exceptions in Codex: Marines and I can't find it in Dark Angels. As written, your minimum tax might be 100pts bigger than it seems?

425pts just to use a sub-par HQ choice? Yikes, no thanks!

[Timberwolf]

Captain on a bike with a bike command squad might be your best Death Star then, or maybe even Korsarro with one, unless you really want to do Orks. It is pretty Death Starry, Veteren statlines all round, can be made ludicrously expensive, take 4 powerfists if you want along with 4 meltaguns and still have FNP from the Apothecary.

[Cheesegear]

Not recently, and nowhere that I could find easily. If you have any better idea where it is, maybe get it added to the OP?

I mean on my own. For my own use. I posted earlier about updating my Scouts. I've done the same for my Bike army.

[Trixie]

Does it state whether or not Sammaels count as a "Space Marine Captain" in any of the FAQs? It says that he's a Company Master in his fluff, which is essentially the same thing, but he specifically isn't listed as one of the exceptions in Codex: Marines and I can't find it in Dark Angels. As written, your minimum tax might be 100pts bigger than it seems?

"Space Marine Captain" on Bike is SM Capt' Codex entry with Bike wargear added. Korsarro with one wargear option gets a pass due to being mentioned as one.

Sammael is neither, nor is he even Captain. Not to mention "slight" issue of Force Org charts and its modifications being exclusive to one Codex and no mixing of them ever, allies or not.

[Wraith]

"Space Marine Captain" on Bike is SM Capt' Codex entry with Bike wargear added. Korsarro with one wargear option gets a pass due to being mentioned as one.

On the contrary, it's nothing to do with Bikes; all it says it that you must have a Space Marine Captain in order to take a Command Squad, and nothing else. You're quite happily allowed to have a Captain-on-Bike and Squad on foot or in a transport, or vice versa, as the two are not required to play together.

Kor'sarro gets a pass because he is of the rank of Captain, as are Shrike (odd, because Command Squads can't have Jump packs.... ), Sicarius, Lysander and Shadow.

Meanwhile, Sammael is a Company Master, which for all intents and purposes is a fancy worded equivalent to.... Captain.
Hence why I was asking about an FAQ - they have been updated far more recently than Codex: Dark Angels and the 6th Edition rulebook, and I didn't think it implausible that something like it might have been mentioned to separate RaI (he is a Space Marine Captain in every way but name) versus RaW (the name is specifically important).

[CN the Logos]

So, who wants to critique a relative noob's Necron list?

Note in advance: I do not yet have any flyers. I'll probably get a couple for my birthday, but that's another three weeks away, I won't actually get them until Thanksgiving, and it'll take a month after that for the things to be properly assembled and painted.

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HQ: 460 points

Nemesor Zahndrek - 185 points

Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Flare and Gaze of Flame - 65 points

Harbinger of Destruction - 35 points

Necron Lord with Hyperphase Sword and Resurrection Orb - 65 points

Necron Lord with Warscythe and Resurrection Orb - 75 points

Troops: 779 points

9 Necron Warriors with Ghost Ark - 232 points

19 Necron Warriors - 247 points

10 Necron Warriors - 130 points

10 Necron Immortals with Gauss Blasters - 170 points

Elites: 280 points

C'tan Shard with Gaze of Death and Transdimensional Thunderbolt - 280 points

Fast Attack - 390 points

5 Necron Destroyers, two upgraded to Heavy Destroyers - 240 points

10 Canoptek Scarabs - 150 points

Heavy Support - 90 points

Annihilation Barge - 90 points

TOTAL: 1999 points

Zahndrek and the upgraded Harbinger go with the nineteen Warriors. The nekkid Harbinger goes in the Ghost Ark with the nine Warriors and shoots out of it while it takes his precious antitank to wherever it needs to be. The Sword Lord goes with the ten Warriors while the Scythe Lord goes with the Immortals.

[Voidhawk]

First impression is you have either not enough (or too much) mech. With a grand total of 2 vehicles and 1 monsterous creature in a 2000 point list, you can expect all three to die on the first turn pretty much every game.

The incoming pair of flyers will do a decent job of fixing this, but until then I'd suggest playing smaller point games and/or using a completely vehicle-less list. Better no tanks than a couple, as a couple just gives your opponent something to shoot his anti-tank guns at.

[Trixie]

On the contrary, it's nothing to do with Bikes; all it says it that you must have a Space Marine Captain in order to take a Command Squad, and nothing else. You're quite happily allowed to have a Captain-on-Bike and Squad on foot or in a transport, or vice versa, as the two are not required to play together.

Yes, but I thought the issue was about biker troops?

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Kor'sarro gets a pass because he is of the rank of Captain, as are Shrike (odd, because Command Squads can't have Jump packs.... ), Sicarius, Lysander and Shadow.

Technically, they have rank of Captain in the fluff, but there is nothing indicating he is one in his mini entry, thus need for exception.

Look at old 'are named Chaos ICs actually Chaos Lords' drama for example, and Sammael isn't even Captain in his fluff...

Meanwhile, Sammael is a Company Master, which for all intents and purposes is a fancy worded equivalent to.... Captain.
Hence why I was asking about an FAQ - they have been updated far more recently than Codex: Dark Angels and the 6th Edition rulebook, and I didn't think it implausible that something like it might have been mentioned to separate RaI (he is a Space Marine Captain in every way but name) versus RaW (the name is specifically important).

Technically, Grey Knights Grand Masters are fancy Captains, too. Would they count, and why not if Sammael counts?

Or, seeing GK are SM, and can take actual Captains (that are however not equivalent to SM Captains), can they use their own Termie Sergeant "Captains" for this purpose?

[CN the Logos]

First impression is you have either not enough (or too much) mech. With a grand total of 2 vehicles and 1 monsterous creature in a 2000 point list, you can expect all three to die on the first turn pretty much every game.

The incoming pair of flyers will do a decent job of fixing this, but until then I'd suggest playing smaller point games and/or using a completely vehicle-less list. Better no tanks than a couple, as a couple just gives your opponent something to shoot his anti-tank guns at.

You're probably absolutely right. I've been playing 1500, where I've actually had good results with the C'tan in the two games I've used it. In the first game he ate an entire blob of Imperial Guard infantry and spent the rest of the game getting my opponent to throw all manner of missles, etc... at it instead of my troops (and it survived everything). In the second game I used him he tied up a Nemesis Dreadknight for a turn and a half before killing it and murdering the entire five man (plus Thrawn) squad of Terminators sent to save it. So I'll probably end up keeping him. So far I've seen two Ork players, a Tyranid player, an Eldar player and an infantry IG player, so the Gaze of Death is actually worth it some of the time, despite being the second most expensive Manifestation of Power.

Anyone got any suggestions on what to cut for a 1500 point or lower game? I just got a good deal on some old metal models, including the Immortals (I wasn't going to buy Immortals, but these are the original metal Immortals), two Tomb Spyders which I need to Simple Green the paint off of and reassemble (with pinning) before using, and an official C'tan model (I'd been proxying one). The Spyders seem good, but I doubt they'll be ready by this Thursday, and I'm not sure what to take out for them or whether to run them in one unit or separately. I only have fifteen scarab models, so farming the things is probably not an option, sadly.

Any thoughts?

[Renegade Paladin]

Now that I have a Vulture model that will go together correctly (turns out Forge World sent me the cockpit from the old all-resin model the first time, which won't fit the plastic crew), what's the best way to go about arming it? There's a huge list of options. Presently I'm favoring:

Vulture gunship - 145
-Twin-linked autocannon
-Six hunter-killer missiles

Default configuration is 105 points for a heavy bolter, twin-linked multilaser, and two Hellstrike missiles. Another option is to give it four multiple rocket pods just for the sheer hilarity of throwing around four pie plates a turn, but those pie plates are nothing spectacular. It can also take twin-linked lascannons or missile launchers instead of the multilasers, but the Vendetta really does that better. I won't be locked in; I'm magnetizing the model.

[Timberwolf]

I've always liked the rocket option, but yes, Autocannon and missiles looks fun.

[Issabella]

Just got back from watching a very funny game. 1999pts (there a bouts) both Chaos Marine heavy on nurgle, both with Daemon allies, Epidimius(sp). That 20 casualty mark was hit very early, so both sides has +2 poisoned close combat, ignores armour and 3+ FNP on hordes of cultists. The entire fight came down to luck. (more then most games). It was slightly more exciting to watch then a skaven slave tarpit vs skaven slave tarpit fight in Fantasy.

[Trixie]

So, as I was bored, I looked for inspiration:

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Space Mareine Librarian:


Neighguard, 4x CombiMelta:

Also, this. Hmm, kinda want to play it... Suggestions, perhaps, what Codex would have been best? SW and their 'Wolf' list? SM and 'Bike' list? Ravenwing? Other?

The irony being it's cheaper than original minis :E

[Timberwolf]

Sisters of battle, for all the flamers to burn the abomina...

Oh, hold on, you want to build it...

I'm not sure there is one. And are those female space ponies ? It may be worth it for all the rage it might cause...

I think Space Marine Bikes myself.

[Wraith]

Yes, but I thought the issue was about biker troops?

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Oh, right. Sorry. No - I can take Biker Troops anyway with a Captain, the issue is which Captain I'm allowed to use to do so. Something rep'd by the Doomrider model ought to be something a little more fancy than Generic Captain #263

Technically, they have rank of Captain in the fluff, but there is nothing indicating he is one in his mini entry, thus need for exception.

A Captain is the rank given to a guy in charge of a Company of - usually - 100 Marines and answers to the Chapter Master. This is exactly the same role performed by a Company Master like Sammael.

You are right - it's all fluff, but it's plausible fluff, that would take just one line in an FAQ to fix.

Technically, Grey Knights Grand Masters are fancy Captains, too. Would they count, and why not if Sammael counts?

Or, seeing GK are SM, and can take actual Captains (that are however not equivalent to SM Captains), can they use their own Termie Sergeant "Captains" for this purpose?

The 'Sergeant' GK Captains are answered as no, because Codex:SM specifies needing a Captain in a HQ slot.

But the others, however? You're exactly right; If not, why not? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[Tychris1]

Play Chaos, it's the only way to explain all the HERESY!

[Borgh]

Yup, those ponies are obviously hideously mutated.

I mean, I kinda like FiM but it should stay in equestria.

[Trixie]

The 'Sergeant' GK Captains are answered as no, because Codex:SM specifies needing a Captain in a HQ slot.

But the others, however? You're exactly right; If not, why not? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Grey Knight Brother-Captain Arvann Stern is HQ slot model despite being SM Lieutenant/Sergeant Major rank equivalent. Does he count?

Play Chaos, it's the only way to explain all the HERESY!

Chaos doesn't have cavalry/beast/bike/whatever troops

[Forrestfire]

Why not just use a normal bike list like the guy who made them is?

[Trixie]

I'm not sure there is one. And are those female space ponies ? It may be worth it for all the rage it might cause...

I think Space Marine Bikes myself.

Technically, FiM models are both male and felmale. But, yeah.

Why not just use a normal bike list like the guy who made them is?

Because other things might fit better? Like SW list?

Now upon rethinking, maybe drop the whole 'bike' angle or at least use Pegasi models (rearing on two legs) as assault marines? In that case BA would fit well...

Or, since they all have magic, go for broke and use GK. Unicorns being Justicars of the squad, speed of Pegasi representing I6 Halberds, with force weapons being hug of friendship. Or something

Problem with GK being their reliance on Terminators, unless someone was willing to make all-purifier/strike list there would be problems with representing them. Still, Luna would fit excellently as Mordak

[/thinkingoutloud]

[Tychris1]

Well, if your dropping the bike thing you can go for a Khorne Berzerker/Raptor (Or whatever) and attach two chain axes to the side of each of their heads like the eye guards for race horses (But far more destructive).

Or have Vinyl lead a squad of Noise Marines and just wub across the battlefield. Chaos is a one size fits all type of glove, even for hooves.

[Squark]

Technically, FiM models are both male and felmale. But, yeah.



Because other things might fit better? Like SW list?

Now upon rethinking, maybe drop the whole 'bike' angle or at least use Pegasi models (rearing on two legs) as assault marines? In that case BA would fit well...

Or, since they all have magic, go for broke and use GK. Unicorns being Justicars of the squad, speed of Pegasi representing I6 Halberds, with force weapons being hug of friendship. Or something

Problem with GK being their reliance on Terminators, unless someone was willing to make all-purifier/strike list there would be problems with representing them. Still, Luna would fit excellently as Mordak

[/thinkingoutloud]

I don't know, I feel like Ponies would fit better on a terminator base than a normal one.

[Hootman]

The answer, as with everything, is Daemons. I haven't the faintest idea whether those mounted Slaaneshi Rider things are troops or can be made troops, but it doesn't really matter, because if you are going to pony-up for this kind of heretical nonsense, you'd better be whipping up a bucketful of Friendship War Chariots. I assume there's some kind of Friendship Lord On A Chariot that you could give Celestia, make Luna some kind of giant smokey Cuddle-Daemon or Skulltaker, have pegasus Screamers, and so on. Naturally, Doctor Hooves is the Fateweaver. I'm sure you can think of other things.

However, I must agree with Borgh's stunning analysis:

I mean, I kinda like FiM but it should stay in equestria.

[Trixie]

I don't know, I feel like Ponies would fit better on a terminator base than a normal one.

Hmm, upon thinking, maybe? They look halfway-sized, but yes, models standing on all four legs would fit 4 cm base better.

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First picture looks like quite doable conversion, and hopefully wouldn't break the bank

The answer, as with everything, is Daemons. I haven't the faintest idea whether those mounted Slaaneshi Rider things are troops or can be made troops, but it doesn't really matter, because if you are going to pony-up for this kind of heretical nonsense, you'd better be whipping up a bucketful of Friendship War Chariots. I assume there's some kind of Friendship Lord On A Chariot that you could give Celestia, make Luna some kind of giant smokey Cuddle-Daemon or Skulltaker, have pegasus Screamers, and so on. Naturally, Doctor Hooves is the Fateweaver. I'm sure you can think of other things.

Problem with demons is their method of appearance (teleportation for nonmagical kinds? How?) and the fact most HQs are huge models that can't be represented by all-plastic BB figures. Also, majority of models (troops) are far too small/numerous for good conversions. Hmm.

[Tychris1]

How?

You're doing a cross over with home made models and converted names and history. Logic doesn't have to apply anymore. Hell, play necrons if you want. I can create a myriad of excuses for daemons due to the fact that we're just throwing ideas around that we have complete control over due to there being no official fluff for Warhammer PonyK. Teleportation spells can get multiple people, just say that a unicorn teleports the squads from the safety of his ship, or just that they all have teleporter arrays. Make things up. You're allowed to do so.

Again. Chaos. *Waves hands* Join us!

Oh, and just compensate for size by having hills or mountains or such beneath your HQ's. They don't have to be bug, they just have to be reasonable for the base they are on. Also, count the hill/mountain as a part of the model.

[Squark]

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SO. MUCH. YES.

[HalfTangible]

How?

You're doing a cross over with home made models and converted names and history. Logic doesn't have to apply anymore. Hell, play necrons if you want. I can create a myriad of excuses for daemons due to the fact that we're just throwing ideas around that we have complete control over due to there being no official fluff for Warhammer PonyK. Teleportation spells can get multiple people, just say that a unicorn teleports the squads from the safety of his ship, or just that they all have teleporter arrays. Make things up. You're allowed to do so.

Again. Chaos. *Waves hands* Join us!

Oh, and just compensate for size by having hills or mountains or such beneath your HQ's. They don't have to be bug, they just have to be reasonable for the base they are on. Also, count the hill/mountain as a part of the model.

That reminds me, i need to actually DO that Ponyhammer fanfic... sooner or later >.>

[Renegade Paladin]

That reminds me, i need to actually DO that Ponyhammer fanfic... sooner or later >.>

Been done. Also: *BLAM!* HERESY!!!

[HalfTangible]

Been done. Also: *BLAM!* HERESY!!!

No, i don't mean a crossover, i mean like those drawings Trixie linked: stories where the ponies are the Imperium, etc etc