What game do the dragons play?

[GoblinGilmartin]

I was reading through my books, and I found a section in one of the books about dragons who take this oath or something so they can play this game where they use other creatures as pawns in a giant, era spanning game of "who gets the most treasure" When i went back to look for it, i couldn't find it. Can someone tell me where to look? I need the info on it for my campaign...

[Emperor Ing]

I think you're looking for Xorvintaal (*googles* holy crap I actually spelled that right!) from the MM5. It includes a template both for dragons and willing pawns.

[Anderlith]

They play Checkers. Twister on the weekends though, everyone loves twister

[Dr.Epic]

Dragons typically play paint ball with humans and other smaller, weaker creatures. They're quite good at it, except their version of "paint ball" doesn't have the "t".

[Lentrax]

Well, it does, but thats just a nicety to disguise what the paint really is...

[Silma]

I bet they're playing H&H (Houses and Humans)

[Kalmageddon]

I bet they're playing H&H (Houses and Humans)

LOL! Brilliant!

[TheThan]

They play Checkers. Twister on the weekends though, everyone loves twister

So that explains the half dragon template....

[legomaster00156]

They play Houses and Humans. Duh.

Edit: And... beaten to the joke. Dang it.

[Dr.Epic]

I bet they're playing H&H (Houses and Humans)

Are there gazebos?

[ThiagoMartell]

Are there gazebos?

A gazebo?! I attack!

[GoblinGilmartin]

I think you're looking for Xorvintaal (*googles* holy crap I actually spelled that right!) from the MM5. It includes a template both for dragons and willing pawns.

Thanks! I never would have thought to look in the monster manuals. I must have read through the Draconomicon 4 times....

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Keep in mind that Xorvintaal is less of a game and more of a polite code of behavior. It's all fine and dandy when dragons burn the countryside and steal virgins and treasure. It's something completely different when dragons try to kill each other, it often leaves their battleground completely desolate. Dragons play these kinds of games with mortals because they know that if they fight at full strength they'll usually destroy most of what they're fighting over.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Finally got a look at this and the associated exarch templates.

I could do so many horrible wonderful things with this.

Not that I need it, but I'd still like to get a look at the accompanying default fluff though.

The alternate form ability can lead to so much subterfuge, that I'm practically drooling over it. Gods I need to find a new group.

[Silma]

They play Houses and Humans. Duh.

Edit: And... beaten to the joke. Dang it.

I only have one thing to say

MEHEHEHEHEEEEEEEEEEEE

[nedz]

I've been thinking about this for some time.
You can look at Xorvintaal as The Great Game, i.e. Diplomacy.
You can implement Clauswitz's paradime: War is the Continuation of Diplomacy by another means.
Endless possibilities for a campaign.

I'm not sure about the Xorvintaal template though, it does weaken Dragons by removing spellcasting. Maybe you could mix Xorvintaal and non-Xorvintaal Dragons who 'play' within some sort of cabal; kind of like a crime family ? The 'Godfather' Dragons take the ritual and use the template, their followers do not.

[JBento]

Xorvintaal players aren't supposed to be as powerful in a fight as your regular dragons.

They're tacticians and manipulators. If your gaming group is trying to kill a Xorvintaaler, the dragon has already lost the game (unless a different Xorvintaaler set them down that path, in which case THAT dragon is probably about to score some major points).

[Dr.Epic]

A gazebo?! I attack!

Roll initiative!

[Ashtagon]

Xorvintaal players aren't supposed to be as powerful in a fight as your regular dragons.

They're tacticians and manipulators. If your gaming group is trying to kill a Xorvintaaler, the dragon has already lost the game (unless a different Xorvintaaler set them down that path, in which case THAT dragon is probably about to score some major points).

Pretty much this.

A conventional 3e dragon ends up being a wizard first, dragon second. The xorvintaal templates were designed to make D&D dragons emulate the way dragons actually work in the established body of traditional fiction (ie. pretty much every dragon in fiction that is not influenced by the D&D rules).

[CN the Logos]

Pretty much this.

A conventional 3e dragon ends up being a wizard first, dragon second. The xorvintaal templates were designed to make D&D dragons emulate the way dragons actually work in the established body of traditional fiction (ie. pretty much every dragon in fiction that is not influenced by the D&D rules).

Yeah, it's great if you're playing in a setting where spellcasters are limited and don't win at everything. If you're using a higher-magic setting though, you can always just keep spellcasting and use the xorvintaal fluff though.

One thought I had regarding traditional dragon behavior that I just realized could make a great xorvintaal rule/plot hook. The reason dragons demand riches and virgins from places that aren't able to part with either is often because...

Spoiler

Show

They're trying to commit suicide by dragonslayer.

Dragons don't really have society the same way that lesser mortals do; every dragon is an apex predator that requires massive amounts of resources, for which they are competing with every other dragon (this holds true whether or not your game uses The Great Game, but if it does, perhaps this constant state of near-war is how it came about). Viewing every other dragon as competition or potential competition, dragons have a strongly ingrained taboo against showing weakness. For a dragon that has for some reason decided that another thousand years of life is too long to deal with, the rationale behind this taboo doesn't really apply, but old habits die hard and by now it's become as much a cultural thing as a defense against rival predators.

The dragon goes to an area judged capable of finding a suitably skilled dragonslayer, delivers a ritual challenge calculated to be as horrific as possible while still retaining some level of class, and waits for someone with shining armor and a sharp sword to come along and provide him with the sweet release of death. If xorvintaal is being played, this allows the dragon in question to bow out without losing points, and may even add bonus points depending on how legendary the fight looked to outsiders. Observers with a decent number of ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) may wonder why the dragon in question isn't casting any save-or-lose spells that could end the fight in its favor, but the battle isn't likely to be witnessed by many people who study dragons for a living, and if the would-be-hero figures it out it's better to be known as a hero than as someone who helped someone commit suicide so he could take their stuff.

This could work fantastically well as a plot-hook for a good-aligned party that likes to use Sense Motive and doesn't always favor a kick-in-the-door approach, I think. Just be careful how you play it or it'll turn into overwrought parody.

[Slipperychicken]

They play "Will it breed?", in which Dragons go out and try to copulate with every living corporeal creature imaginable and see what kind of bizarre progeny result.


They play Jenga. With real buildings. And breath weapons. This is why they allow human settlements to exist.


They play "Capture the Princess". The Dragon with the most living princesses in his lair at the end of 10 months wins (temporary willing visitors do not count and are frowned upon). Ties are broken by comparing the number of rescue parties killed, each one killed by a trap counts double. Sometimes, dragons invite humanoids (usually barons and wizards) to participate.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Spoiler

Show

They're trying to commit suicide by dragonslayer.

Dragons don't really have society the same way that lesser mortals do; every dragon is an apex predator that requires massive amounts of resources, for which they are competing with every other dragon (this holds true whether or not your game uses The Great Game, but if it does, perhaps this constant state of near-war is how it came about). Viewing every other dragon as competition or potential competition, dragons have a strongly ingrained taboo against showing weakness. For a dragon that has for some reason decided that another thousand years of life is too long to deal with, the rationale behind this taboo doesn't really apply, but old habits die hard and by now it's become as much a cultural thing as a defense against rival predators.

The dragon goes to an area judged capable of finding a suitably skilled dragonslayer, delivers a ritual challenge calculated to be as horrific as possible while still retaining some level of class, and waits for someone with shining armor and a sharp sword to come along and provide him with the sweet release of death. If xorvintaal is being played, this allows the dragon in question to bow out without losing points, and may even add bonus points depending on how legendary the fight looked to outsiders. Observers with a decent number of ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) may wonder why the dragon in question isn't casting any save-or-lose spells that could end the fight in its favor, but the battle isn't likely to be witnessed by many people who study dragons for a living, and if the would-be-hero figures it out it's better to be known as a hero than as someone who helped someone commit suicide so he could take their stuff.

This could work fantastically well as a plot-hook for a good-aligned party that likes to use Sense Motive and doesn't always favor a kick-in-the-door approach, I think. Just be careful how you play it or it'll turn into overwrought parody.

I love this. You could also make the distribution of the dragon's wealth a major aspect of the game. The dragon may coordinate with his allies so that his hoard falls into the economy owned by his allies, or have his allies approach the slayer as buyers so that they can get key pieces of the hoard they previously agreed upon (this may be helped along by certain enchantment spells on certain objects, to disguise the treasure's true nature or to encourage the slayer to get rid of it for a cheap price).

They play "Will it breed?", in which Dragons go out and try to copulate with every living corporeal creature imaginable and see what kind of bizarre progeny result.

One idea I came up with was that gods allow their clerics and paladins to use divine magic because it makes the gods stronger. The ritual that allows a mortal to use divine magic plants a shard of the god's power into them, and this shard gains more and more power from the mortal's soul until he dies, returning the shard to the god so that he becomes more powerful.

Something similar could happen for dragons, where their magic becomes more powerful the more they spread their bloodline, as they draw power from the souls of half-dragons and sorcerers. Obviously there's a careful balance here, because half-dragons happen to be very good at dragon-slaying due to their energy resistance, and mortals with sorcerous talent have near-unlimited potential.

[nedz]

I love this. You could also make the distribution of the dragon's wealth a major aspect of the game. The dragon may coordinate with his allies so that his hoard falls into the economy owned by his allies, or have his allies approach the slayer as buyers so that they can get key pieces of the hoard they previously agreed upon (this may be helped along by certain enchantment spells on certain objects, to disguise the treasure's true nature or to encourage the slayer to get rid of it for a cheap price).

Do Dragons have Wills ?

[Anderlith]

Do Dragons have Wills ?

Dunkelzahn sure did.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Do Dragons have Wills ?

Probably not. They just use various gambits and manipulations to ensure that certain objects end up where they're supposed to, as I described. It's more fun that way, and you get to get all sorts of incidental benefits. For example, a kobold thief steals an item from the hoard, and then that magic item ends up in the hands of an enemy's kobold tribe and they use it to cause trouble for humans, then adventurers come and kill all the kobolds and sell the magic item to the intended owner. Another way would be to give a magic weapon to an adventuring party and tell them to go slay the intended recipient. Those are probably just simple examples.