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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    yuk Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    So, I had the idea to have a sort of vote for the absolute worst of the worst in 3.x: stuff that makes you really blanch on sight. I'm keeping track of the top ten by vote in a short table, and all the other suggestions in a much longer one.

    Everyone gets up to ten votes, and you can put up to three of them on the same suggestion (yours, or someone else's), or put up to one negative vote per suggestion you disagree with, which counts as one of your ten total; you can redistribute votes at will. Also, try to keep suggestions as tight and self-contained as possible: rather than saying "Sarrukh", try "Manipulate Form"; rather than "Wizard", try "Shapechange". Finally, please try to make all votes clear, to reduce the possibility of misinterpretation.

    The Top Ten
    # Name Type Votes
    1 Truenamer Base Class 31
    2 PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange Spell 26
    3 Iron Heart Surge Maneuver 25
    4 dust of sneezing and choking Item 21
    5 epic spellcasting Rule 16
    6 alignments Rule 15
    7 Cancer Mage Prestige Class 13
    8 drowning Rule 13
    9 Sarrukh's Manipulate Form Ability 13
    10 candle of invocation Item 12


    13 dishonorable mentions (at least 5 votes):
    Spoiler
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    # Name Type Votes
    11 Diplomacy Skill 12
    12 Paladin code Class Feature 10
    13 Monk Base Class 9
    14 Manyfang Dagger Item 9
    15 Shivering Touch Spell 7
    16 Void Disciple Prestige Class 7
    17 Tainted Scholar Prestige Class 6
    18 Monstrous Crab Monster 5
    19 Hulking Hurler mountain-tossing Class Feature 5
    20 Precocious Apprentice Feat 5
    21 Leadership Feat 5
    22 flat-footed Combat 5
    23 Adamantine Horror Monster 5


    96 additional suggestions:
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    # Name Type Votes
    24 CW Samurai Base Class 4
    25 Invisible Blade prereqs Class Feature 4
    26 Thought Bottle Item 4
    27 Balor sword Ability 4
    28 Trap Sense Class Feature 4
    29 bloodlines Variant Rule 4
    30 Challenge Rating Combat 4
    31 PrC prereq Rule 4
    32 Opalescent Glare Spell 4
    33 Abrupt Jaunt Alternate Class Feature 4
    34 Vow of Poverty Feat 4
    35 Ex/Su/SLA/Na Rule 4
    36 Feinting Combat 3
    37 Dread Necromancer's fear aura Class Feature 3
    38 Persistent Spell Feat 3
    39 Genies Monster 3
    40 Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil Prestige Class 3
    41 Gate Spell 3
    42 Mercurial Strike Feat 3
    43 Mountebank Prestige Class 3
    44 Lucid Dreaming Skill 3
    45 Dragonwrought Feat 3
    46 Dragonblood subtype Rule 3
    47 Incorporeal subtype Rule 3
    48 Forsaker Prestige Class 3
    49 Prone Shooter Feat 2
    50 Ride-By Attack Feat 2
    51 dead Combat 2
    52 grapple Combat 2
    53 Level Adjustment Rule 2
    54 soulmelds Rule 2
    55 Practiced Manifester Feat 2
    56 LA/RHD Rule 2
    57 multiclass XP penalties Rule 2
    58 Ur-Priest Prestige Class 2
    59 Jump Skill 2
    60 Planar Bubble Class Feature 2
    61 Sublime Chord Prestige Class 2
    62 Fiery Fist Feat 2
    63 Favored Soul Base Class 2
    64 Synthesist Summoner Base Class 2
    65 traps Rule 2
    66 spell component pouch Item 2
    67 Contact Other Plane Spell 2
    68 Elemental Weird Monster 2
    69 Pazuzu Monster 2
    70 Monkey Lunge Feat 1
    71 Naztharune Rakshasa sneak attack Ability 1
    72 Antagonize Feat 1
    73 Fighter Base Class 1
    74 Divine Metamagic Feat 1
    75 Vorpal Item 1
    76 Legion of Sentinels Spell 1
    77 Incantatrix Prestige Class 1
    78 magic device traps Rule 1
    79 SLAs ignoring components Combat 1
    80 Planar Ally/Planar Binding Spell 1
    81 Heroes of Horror Book 1
    82 Healer Base Class 1
    83 Dvati Race 1
    84 Jack of All Trades Feat 1
    85 Forced Dream Power 1
    86 Haunt Shift Spell 1
    87 Freedom of Movement Spell 1
    88 swift/immediate action movement Class Feature/Item 1
    89 Clever Wrestling Feat 1
    90 Versatile Spellcaster Feat 1
    91 Choker extra standard action Ability 1
    92 Festering Hate Disease 1
    93 Arrow Demon Monster 1
    94 Damage Reduction stacking Rule 1
    95 Wish Spell 1
    96 Feral Template 1
    97 Diehard Feat 1
    98 free actions Combat 1
    99 Beholder Mage Prestige Class 1
    100 Planar Shepherd Prestige Class 1
    101 Apocalypse from the Sky Spell 1
    102 Dirge Singer Prestige Class 1
    103 Tracking Rule 1
    104 White Raven Tactics on initiator Maneuver 1
    105 Complete Psionic Book 1
    106 Mindsight Feat 1
    107 Monk proficiencies Class Feature 1
    108 Shaedling's Shadow Gossamer Ability 1
    109 Ebon Eyes Spell 1
    110 Guidance of the Avatar Spell 1
    111 Greater Mirror Image Spell 1
    112 nightsticks Item 1
    113 Exemplar Prestige Class 1
    114 Ice Assassin Spell 1
    115 Illumian power words Ability 1
    116 Erudite Base Class 1
    117 CPsi Mind Blade Feat 1
    118 Reincarnate Spell 1
    119 Flaws Variant Rule 1
    120 Locate City Spell 1


    6 proudly negated suggestions:
    Spoiler
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    # Name Type Votes
    121 chicken-infested Flaw 0
    122 Malconvoker Prestige Class 0
    123 Factotum Base Class 0
    124 ML limit on augmentation Rule 0
    125 Love's Pain Spell 0
    126 Wizard Base Class -1


    Votelog:
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    Poster Votes Total
    Acanous candle of invocation (1) 1
    allenw Monkey Lunge (1), Prone Shooter (1) 2
    Amoren Naztharune Rakshasa sneak attack (1), CW Samurai (1), Truenamer (1), Invisible Blade prereqs (1), Monstrous Crab (1) 5
    Amphetryon Shivering Touch (1) 1
    Answerer Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (1), Truenamer (1) 2
    Antonok Paladin code (3), dust of sneezing and choking (3), alignments (1), Feinting (3) 10
    Aricandor Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (1), Truenamer (1), candle of invocation (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Cancer Mage (1), Tainted Scholar (1), drowning (1), epic spellcasting (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) 10
    Arutema Antagonize (1) 1
    Ashtagon Fighter (1), Wizard (1), Divine Metamagic (1) 3
    avr Ride-By Attack (1), Iron Heart Surge (3), alignments (3), epic spellcasting (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (2) 10
    Azernak0 Truenamer (1) 1
    Batou1976 Truenamer (1), candle of invocation (1), Vorpal (1), alignments (-1), drowning (1) 5
    BCBrammer Void Disciple (1) 1
    ben-zayb Hulking Hurler mountain-tossing (3), Precocious Apprentice (2), Thought Bottle (2), Cancer Mage (3) 10
    bobthe6th Balor sword (3), Dread Necromancer's fear aura (3) 6
    BRC Legion of Sentinels (1) 1
    Cruiser1 Persistent Spell (3), Iron Heart Surge (1), Genies (3), Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (3) 10
    Curmudgeon Monk (2), Leadership (1), Manyfang Dagger (3), Incantatrix (1), epic spellcasting (1), Diplomacy (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) 10
    Devmaar Trap Sense (2), dust of sneezing and choking (2), Iron Heart Surge (2), dead (1), drowning (2), Shivering Touch (1) 10
    Doorhandle chicken-infested (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Monstrous Crab (1), Cancer Mage (1) 4
    Doug Lampert candle of invocation (-1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), drowning (1), grapple (1), magic device traps (1), SLAs ignoring components (1), Diplomacy (1), Gate (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), Planar Ally/Planar Binding (1) 10
    Doxkid Heroes of Horror (1) 1
    Dragonborn Healer (1), alignments (3), epic spellcasting (2), flat-footed (1), Level Adjustment (1), soulmelds (1), Shivering Touch (1) 10
    Draz74 Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (1), Monk (1), Adamantine Horror (1), epic spellcasting (1), Diplomacy (2), Gate (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), bloodlines (1), Dvati (1) 10
    dspeyer Practiced Manifester (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) 3
    EatAtEmrakuls Truenamer (3), Iron Heart Surge (3), Cancer Mage (3), drowning (1) 10
    eggs Jack of All Trades (1), Practiced Manifester (1), Forced Dream (1), Malconvoker (-1), Challenge Rating (3), Haunt Shift (1), bloodlines (2) 10
    Ernir Factotum (1), Truenamer (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), drowning (1), Freedom of Movement (1) 5
    Eugenides Diplomacy (3), Monk (3), Iron Heart Surge (2), Manyfang Dagger (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1) 10
    Featherman swift/immediate action movement (1), LA/RHD (1), multiclass XP penalties (2), PrC prereq (3), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (3) 10
    Gavinfoxx Clever Wrestling (1) 1
    GnomeGninjas Mercurial Strike (3) 3
    Grim Reader Versatile Spellcaster (1), Ur-Priest (1) 2
    Grytorm Tainted Scholar (1) 1
    HeadlessMermaid Invisible Blade prereqs (1), Trap Sense (-1), Iron Heart Surge (2), alignments (3), flat-footed (1), Diplomacy (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) 10
    Jade Dragon Mountebank (3), candle of invocation (3), Diplomacy (2), Jump (1), alignments (1) 10
    JaronK Opalescent Glare (1) 1
    jaybird Iron Heart Surge (1) 1
    karpik777 Iron Heart Surge (2), Adamantine Horror (1), Tainted Scholar (1) 4
    Kazyan Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (3), Truenamer (3), Tainted Scholar (1), epic spellcasting (3) 10
    Khosan drowning (1) 1
    killianh Planar Bubble (1) 1
    Kira_the_5th Choker extra standard action (1), Abrupt Jaunt (1), Festering Hate (1), Antagonize (-1), Cancer Mage (1), Malconvoker (1), Sublime Chord (2) 8
    Knaight Balor sword (1), Truenamer (3), Paladin code (2), Void Disciple (2), Lucid Dreaming (2) 10
    Ksheep Truenamer (1), Paladin code (1), Ride-By Attack (1), Vow of Poverty (1), Adamantine Horror (1), Arrow Demon (1), Monstrous Crab (1), Cancer Mage (1), alignments (1), drowning (1) 10
    Kurald Galain Monk (3), Precocious Apprentice (3), drowning (-1), Shivering Touch (3), ML limit on augmentation (0) 10
    Kuulvheysoon Truenamer (1), Dragonwrought (1) 2
    LordDrakulzen Paladin code (1), Vow of Poverty (2), dust of sneezing and choking (2), Manyfang Dagger (2), Damage Reduction stacking (1), Wish (1), Feral (1) 10
    lunar2 Wizard (-1), Diehard (1), Fiery Fist (2), alignments (3), Dragonblood subtype (3) 10
    Madara Truenamer (1), Trap Sense (2), dust of sneezing and choking (2), Iron Heart Surge (1), Monstrous Crab (2), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), Shivering Touch (1) 10
    Malimar Truenamer (1), Dragonwrought (1), Leadership (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), drowning (1), epic spellcasting (1), free actions (1), grapple (1), PrC prereq (1), Diplomacy (1) 10
    Mithril Leaf candle of invocation (1), Ex/Su/SLA/Na (1) 2
    molten_dragon Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (1), Truenamer (1), Persistent Spell (1), Thought Bottle (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Beholder Mage (1), Planar Shepherd (1), Tainted Scholar (1), Ur-Priest (1), LA/RHD (1) 10
    mootoall Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (3), Void Disciple (1), Apocalypse from the Sky (1) 5
    Morph Bark Truenamer (1), Hulking Hurler mountain-tossing (-1), Iron Heart Surge (-1), epic spellcasting (3), Ex/Su/SLA/Na (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (3) 10
    NeedsAnswersNao bloodlines (-1), Tainted Scholar (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Truenamer (1) 4
    NikitaDarkstar Favored Soul (1), Dirge Singer (1), Challenge Rating (1), Level Adjustment (1) 4
    Novawurmson Synthesist Summoner (1), Antagonize (1), traps (1) 3
    Palanan Tracking (1) 1
    Phaederkiel Manyfang Dagger (3), Incorporeal subtype (3), Factotum (-1), White Raven Tactics on initiator (1), Abrupt Jaunt (2) 10
    Psyren spell component pouch (1) 1
    QuickLyRaiNbow Truenamer (1), Ex/Su/SLA/Na (2), Diplomacy (1), Lucid Dreaming (1), Contact Other Plane (2), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (3) 10
    randomguy dust of sneezing and choking (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Adamantine Horror (1), Elemental Weird (1) 4
    Rubik Complete Psionic (1) 1
    Salbazier alignments (1), epic spellcasting (1), Paladin code (1) 3
    ShriekingDrake Mindsight (1) 1
    Sith_Happens Opalescent Glare (2) 2
    sonofzeal Truenamer (1), Monk proficiencies (1), candle of invocation (2), Pazuzu (2), Void Disciple (3), alignments (-1) 10
    sreservoir Shaedling's Shadow Gossamer (1) 1
    Stallion Truenamer (1) 1
    suddo bloodlines (1) 1
    Telok Ebon Eyes (1) 1
    Telonius Truenamer (1), Paladin code (2), candle of invocation (2), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), alignments (2), Guidance of the Avatar (1) 10
    The Dark Fiddler Truenamer (2), Invisible Blade prereqs (2), Trap Sense (1), chicken-infested (-1), Cancer Mage (2), drowning (2) 10
    TheGeckoKing Sarrukh's Manipulate Form (3), Truenamer (3), Heroes of Horror (1), candle of invocation (1), drowning (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) 10
    TheOOB Gate (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1) 2
    tiercel Abrupt Jaunt (1), Greater Mirror Image (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (3) 5
    togapika Wizard (-1), Hulking Hurler mountain-tossing (3), dust of sneezing and choking (3), Forsaker (3) 10
    Togo flat-footed (3) 3
    Tr0ll Truenamer (-1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Thought Bottle (1), traps (1), Leadership (3), Persistent Spell (-1) 9
    tuggyne Planar Bubble (1), candle of invocation (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), nightsticks (1), spell component pouch (1), Iron Heart Surge (1), Adamantine Horror (1), Elemental Weird (1), drowning (1), epic spellcasting (1), Love's Pain (0) 10
    Vaz Opalescent Glare (1), dead (1), Exemplar (1), Jump (1), CW Samurai (3) 7
    Vinyadan Ice Assassin (1) 1
    willpell Illumian power words (1), Erudite (1), Favored Soul (1), Heroes of Horror (-1), CPsi Mind Blade (1), Dragon Disciple (1), alignments (-1), soulmelds (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), bloodlines (1) 10
    Wonton Prone Shooter (1) 1
    Zaq Truenamer (1) 1
    Zerter Synthesist Summoner (1), Dragonwrought (1), Vow of Poverty (1), dust of sneezing and choking (1), Cancer Mage (1), epic spellcasting (1), PaO duration/Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange (1), Reincarnate (1), Flaws (1) 9
    Zonasiy Locate City (1) 1


    Statistics:
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    Type Suggestions Votes
    Rule 15 58
    Spell 18 54
    Item 7 50
    Base Class 10 50
    Prestige Class 14 44
    Feat 19 40
    Combat 8 31
    Class Feature 7 29
    Maneuver 2 26
    Ability 6 21
    Monster 6 18
    Skill 3 17
    Variant Rule 2 5
    Book 2 2
    Template 1 1
    Disease 1 1
    Power 1 1
    Class Feature/Item 1 1
    Race 1 1
    Flaw 1 0



    1
    Dust of Sneezing and Choking: A serious status condition inflicted for an absurd duration, no save, no SR, by a cheap cursed item.

    Chicken-Infested: Probably one of the wondrous deeds of writing that earned Dragon Magazine its remarkably dubious reputation for balance. This is a flaw that acts more like a cheesily-written spell, and has about the same level of common sense. (I.e., none.)

    I'm putting one vote for each of these, er, fine vintages.
    Last edited by TuggyNE; 2014-04-01 at 04:50 AM. Reason: Totes fixing tables
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    TheOOB's Avatar

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Wouldn't the whole list just be filled with polymorph and other effects that are based off of poly morph(okay and a slot for gate).
    "Sometimes, we’re heroes. Sometimes, we shoot other people right in the face for money."

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Nope. Needs room for iron heart surge.
    Have a deviantart!

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    And a Pbp: Going to hell and loving it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    "In his free time, he gates in Balors just so he can kill and eat them later!"

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOOB View Post
    Wouldn't the whole list just be filled with polymorph and other effects that are based off of poly morph(okay and a slot for gate).
    Well, I guess we'll see, won't we? Honestly, there's some pretty crazy broken stuff out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doorhandle View Post
    Nope. Needs room for iron heart surge.
    That it does! Added, and one vote counted for you and me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
    Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.

    Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Drowning rules? I feel like drowning rules qualify.
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    If we're allowing Pathfinder material here, how about Antagonize? Mind-control your enemies with a laughably easy skill check as a standard action at-will.

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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Needs moar truenamer.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Any of the feats which don't do anything by RAW; Ride-by attack is the only one I remember.

    Iron Heart Surge deserves first place & the polymorph line second, but those feats should come in down the list.

    I suggest the polymorph line should take up only one place BTW.

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    I second all of truenamer. Then add a vote for the feat entry requirements for Invisible Blade (really?), and then finally add a vote for all of CW Samurai.

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    I'm really wanting to say Candle Of Invocation as the default response, but I think the Ex vs Su vs SLA rules have to take the cake just for how common they are. It says everything is one of those let fails to specify many abilities. Leads to many of the problems with Polymorph in general.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
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    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Divine metamagic in general.

    Either fighter or wizard, depending on where on the tier ranking you like to play.
    Indigo is a much more appropriate colour for sarcasm, don't you think?
    Blue is strictly for emphasis.
    And grey is kind of like an aside to my main point.

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by avr View Post
    Any of the feats which don't do anything by RAW; Ride-by attack is the only one I remember.
    It's not a feat, but you could include Trap Sense, the thing that gives you a dodge bonus to AC versus traps, which are usually hitting you while you're flat-footed and thus don't get a dodge bonus.

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    No one has said the planar bubble from planar shepherd yet? its bad writing is what allowed that whole 10:1 time flow thing to happen
    I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it. - Elwood P Dowd

    Quote Originally Posted by Spuddles View Post
    You're going to want tetrochloroethylene if it's in pencil, acetone if it's permanent marker, or water if it's pen.

    /solvent optimization

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Anything that allows you to become a Genie and grant yourself Wishes probably qualifies too.

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    I don't see what's so bad about Chicken Infested. It's meant to be silly, and it is.

    What's the name again of that third-level spell that drops an enemy's dexterity by 3d6? Surely, one-shotting dragons at level 5 is well written
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    You would be horrified by what can be done by having an nigh-infinite supply of warm, breathing chickens to feed into your spells, particularly as you can take out what amounts to an infinite supply instantly, (free action to draw an item, free actions can be done by RAW an infinite number of times in one turn...)
    Have a deviantart!

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    And a Pbp: Going to hell and loving it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    "In his free time, he gates in Balors just so he can kill and eat them later!"

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    I don't see what's so bad about Chicken Infested. It's meant to be silly, and it is.

    What's the name again of that third-level spell that drops an enemy's dexterity by 3d6? Surely, one-shotting dragons at level 5 is well written
    pssst don't tell my DM.

    I just got this spell at lvl 5 and I'm in search of large beasties.

    He says: You know they are CR:X Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by killem2 View Post
    dascarletm, you are so hot it is crazy.

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Well, there's Precocious Apprentice, which up until now was a topic of debate for early PrC entry. Some say it contradicts itself and is really poorly worded.

    Also, what about the Dead condition as being poorly defined too?

    Another one: damage based on weight(wth) and carrying capacity exppnentially strength-dependent, which leads to hulking hurlers literally throwing the whole ground/mountain/planet.

    Lastly, just ranting on Setting Sun's Hydra Slaying Strike, although it's more of false advertising than borkenness.
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    18 suggestions! It's a deluge!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khosan View Post
    Drowning rules? I feel like drowning rules qualify.
    Right you are, and in they go!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arutema View Post
    If we're allowing Pathfinder material here, how about Antagonize? Mind-control your enemies with a laughably easy skill check as a standard action at-will.
    Ehh, why not. It's in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion View Post
    Needs moar truenamer.
    Fair enough, although I'd prefer a tighter entry (IMO, not all of truenamer is ill-written, just one of the lexicons, one or both of the Laws, the check scaling.... )

    Quote Originally Posted by avr View Post
    Any of the feats which don't do anything by RAW; Ride-by attack is the only one I remember.

    Iron Heart Surge deserves first place & the polymorph line second, but those feats should come in down the list.

    I suggest the polymorph line should take up only one place BTW.
    All of these are in. Note: I interpreted your priorities as indicating max votes (3) for IHS and increased votes (2) for the polymorph line. If that's incorrect, please let me know; I don't want to resort to judgment calls much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amoren View Post
    I second all of truenamer. Then add a vote for the feat entry requirements for Invisible Blade (really?), and then finally add a vote for all of CW Samurai.
    Another "entire class" entry, I see. Any possibility of cutting that down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    I'm really wanting to say Candle Of Invocation as the default response, but I think the Ex vs Su vs SLA rules have to take the cake just for how common they are. It says everything is one of those let fails to specify many abilities. Leads to many of the problems with Polymorph in general.
    Both are added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    Divine metamagic in general.

    Either fighter or wizard, depending on where on the tier ranking you like to play.
    From my perspective, neither Fighter nor Wizard are exactly badly written in isolation; their imbalance comes from the nature of feats vs. spells. But, you know, it's a matter of perspective I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    It's not a feat, but you could include Trap Sense, the thing that gives you a dodge bonus to AC versus traps, which are usually hitting you while you're flat-footed and thus don't get a dodge bonus.
    Ah, I remember that.

    Quote Originally Posted by killianh View Post
    No one has said the planar bubble from planar shepherd yet? its bad writing is what allowed that whole 10:1 time flow thing to happen
    Hey, the thread's only been going for a few hours!

    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Anything that allows you to become a Genie and grant yourself Wishes probably qualifies too.
    Yes, but more specifically?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    What's the name again of that third-level spell that drops an enemy's dexterity by 3d6? Surely, one-shotting dragons at level 5 is well written
    Shivering touch. In it goes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Doorhandle View Post
    You would be horrified by what can be done by having an nigh-infinite supply of warm, breathing chickens to feed into your spells, particularly as you can take out what amounts to an infinite supply instantly, (free action to draw an item, free actions can be done by RAW an infinite number of times in one turn...)
    Is this an official vote for the wretchedness of Chicken-Infested?

    Quote Originally Posted by ben-zayb View Post
    Well, there's Precocious Apprentice, which up until now was a topic of debate for early PrC entry. Some say it contradicts itself and is really poorly worded.

    Also, what about the Dead condition as being poorly defined too?

    Another one: damage based on weight(wth) and carrying capacity exppnentially strength-dependent, which leads to hulking hurlers literally throwing the whole ground/mountain/planet.

    Lastly, just ranting on Setting Sun's Hydra Slaying Strike, although it's more of false advertising than borkenness.
    I don't know about the last personally, but the others are familiar to me.


    I'm amused to see a ton of suggestions but not much agreement yet; no one has even come close to using up their 10 votes, and only one person has felt strongly enough to put 3 on one. Anyway, I've updated the list, so on we go!
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Oh yeah, there's the cancer mage, I think it's called? Normally corruption is a detrimental mechanic, but this guy doesn't really suffer from the side effects, and gets a ludicrous boost to its spell DC.

    There's also beholder mage, which can actually be entered (somehow) via polymorph spells.
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    I'd add another vote for a monster, if that's allowed.

    THE MONSTROUS CRAB!
    Last edited by Amoren; 2012-07-09 at 06:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amoren View Post
    I'd add another vote for a monster, if that's allowed.

    THE MONSTROUS CRAB! https://www.furaffinity.net/full/8347770/
    Are you sure this is the correct link? Furaffinity doesn't have anything to do with DnD, AFAIK, and sometimes is NSFW.
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    No one mentioned Adamantine Horror (this was the one with the absurd at-wills, right?) yet? Also, Tainted Scholar - perhaps not in itself, but combine it with being undead...

    Though IHS still takes the cake.

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    I saw this thread, and the first thing that popped to my mind was Candle of Invocation.

    Unlike other poorly written things that exist in 3.5, Candle of invocation is worded precisely. It explicitly details what it does, although it hides the truly broken part after an end-of-page break.
    Things like Iron Heart Surge or Drowning, there's obviously a hole. Something the DM needs to Rule Zero in. They are BADLY written. One line of text would fix either one.

    Candle of Invocation? Oh no. The writers knew EXACTLY what they were doing. The CoI is a piece of Dev Malice against all DMs, a piece of aged cheddar that doesn't hide what it does, it just puts it after a wall of text to make lazy or inexperienced DMs think it's OK.

    Munchkins cackle out loud at gaming tables when the oft-asked question of "Can I buy this?" is answered by a "Yes" from the DM after cursory examination.

    The Dust of Sneezing and Choking compares, but is not nearly as game-breaking. Sure, your lv 5 party can take out a Great Wyrm Black Dragon with it, but you have to actually find the dragon. CoI? You gate in something with Wish SLI, then wish for some dust of sneezing, then wish to be transported to the nearest safe location within throwing distance of a Great Wyrm black dragon.

    It's not just cheese, it's the entire omelette, besides.

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    One more vote on an existing suggestion and we could ensure that all the top ten have at least two votes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Oh yeah, there's the cancer mage, I think it's called? Normally corruption is a detrimental mechanic, but this guy doesn't really suffer from the side effects, and gets a ludicrous boost to its spell DC.

    There's also beholder mage, which can actually be entered (somehow) via polymorph spells.
    Two more to add!

    I might actually put the ridiculous duration clauses in PaO in separately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amoren View Post
    I'd add another vote for a monster, if that's allowed.

    THE MONSTROUS CRAB! https://www.furaffinity.net/full/8347770/
    Sure, why not? ... although that's not the official link by any means.

    Anything in 3.x that's just stupidly broken is fair game. Make sure to vote for some others, though!

    Quote Originally Posted by karpik777 View Post
    No one mentioned Adamantine Horror (this was the one with the absurd at-wills, right?) yet? Also, Tainted Scholar - perhaps not in itself, but combine it with being undead...

    Though IHS still takes the cake.
    Yeah, adamantine horror is the one with multiple at-will 9ths. At CR 9.

    Is that two votes for IHS, or three, or just one? (I'm assuming two for now.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Acanous View Post
    I saw this thread, and the first thing that popped to my mind was Candle of Invocation.

    Unlike other poorly written things that exist in 3.5, Candle of invocation is worded precisely. It explicitly details what it does, although it hides the truly broken part after an end-of-page break.
    Things like Iron Heart Surge or Drowning, there's obviously a hole. Something the DM needs to Rule Zero in. They are BADLY written. One line of text would fix either one.

    Candle of Invocation? Oh no. The writers knew EXACTLY what they were doing. The CoI is a piece of Dev Malice against all DMs, a piece of aged cheddar that doesn't hide what it does, it just puts it after a wall of text to make lazy or inexperienced DMs think it's OK.

    Munchkins cackle out loud at gaming tables when the oft-asked question of "Can I buy this?" is answered by a "Yes" from the DM after cursory examination.

    The Dust of Sneezing and Choking compares, but is not nearly as game-breaking. Sure, your lv 5 party can take out a Great Wyrm Black Dragon with it, but you have to actually find the dragon. CoI? You gate in something with Wish SLI, then wish for some dust of sneezing, then wish to be transported to the nearest safe location within throwing distance of a Great Wyrm black dragon.

    It's not just cheese, it's the entire omelette, besides.
    An eloquent and well-reasoned condemnation.

    However, it unfortunately lacks a specific vote, so I'll assume one for CoI for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Common sense" and "RAW" are not exactly on speaking terms
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aharon View Post
    Are you sure this is the correct link? Furaffinity doesn't have anything to do with DnD, AFAIK, and sometimes is NSFW.
    That's the second time this computer has bit me in the ass with copy/pasting. ~_~

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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Scratch Cancer Mage, I actually meant Tainted Scholar. Also, scratch Beholder Mage; the problem with that lies in the polymorph line.

    Here are two new ones. Persist Spell, and Nightsticks. I don't think DMM is the problem per se; numerous feats and features simply assume that Turn Undead is a strictly limited resource. And it normally is, except if you buy cheap, cheap nightsticks to blast your limit through the roof. Persist Spell makes spells last way longer than they should, and goes a long way towards wrecking the spell resource system.

    And, if you're going to put entire classes on the list, you should at least put the Druid and Monk there. The Druid is a full caster, and has innate polymorph ability, and comes with a free beatstick that tends to be better than the party fighter, so it is three classes wrapped in one. Broken straight from level one, which wizards markedly are not.
    And the Monk. Need I really say more? We've had so many threads about the class that at some point we were suggesting a subforum to drop the monk threads in. We've had whole guides dedicated to explaining exactly how sucky the monk is. It deserves to be near the top, because it's a class that wildly fails to live up to its promise, and a common trap for newbies.

    Okay, my vote for the Polymorph Line (and just put PAO under there, it's the same thing); Candle of Inv; Tainted Scholar; Shivering Touch; the Su/Ex/SLA rule; Prec Apprentice; Persist Spell; Nightstick; the monk; and the monk again.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2012-07-09 at 06:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Yeah, that earlier post was a vote for chicken infested.
    Also, th' accursed crab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Scratch Cancer Mage, I actually meant Tainted Scholar.
    Nope, cancer-mage +festering anger is still broken. 2+ strength per day = approx. 718 strength after one year.

    Also, could you use a candle of invocation to summon a lawful-good Balor? seems legit.

    I don't think Shivering Touch is broken: Just that it needs to be much higher in level. There are other-ways to oneshot a dragon, (save-or-dies) and it needs to be in line with those.
    Last edited by Doorhandle; 2012-07-09 at 06:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    "In his free time, he gates in Balors just so he can kill and eat them later!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doorhandle View Post
    Yeah, that earlier post was a vote for chicken infested.
    Also, th' accursed crab.



    Nope, cancer-mage +festering anger is still broken. 2+ strength per day = approx. 718 strength after one year.

    Also, could you use a candle of invocation to summon a lawful-good Balor? seems legit.

    I don't think Shivering Touch is broken: Just that it needs to be much higher in level. There are other-ways to oneshot a dragon, (save-or-dies) and it needs to be in line with those.
    Bonus points for cancer mage if you use the human varient with the sigil that gives you strength to determine bonus spells, whose name eludes me at the moment.
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    Default Re: Top Ten Worst-Written Spells, Class Features, Racial Abilities, Feats, Items, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Doorhandle View Post
    I don't think Shivering Touch is broken: Just that it needs to be much higher in level.
    That makes it badly written by default, yes?
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