Wereoctopus

[Madara]

I'm all for rule of fun. I'm completely against claiming something is RAW when it suits you (i.e., "I want to use the abilities on land, RAW is on my side") then handwaving anything else away as Rule of Fun.
It's funny how you mention just having a +6 Dex bonus is boring, because that's all your template stacking gets you. What you end up with by RAW is:
- Str +6, Dex +2, Con +2, 4d6 rolled for Int, Wis and Cha (basically +0, Wis gets +2 from lycanthrope)
- +3 natural armor (plus lycanthrope bonuses)
- you can only be an afflicted lycanthrope, so your (few) humanoid skill points have to be spent on Control Shape
- 8 HD of humanoid
- LA +9
- no natural attacks in humanoid form, 2 claw attacks in hybrid form, tentacles only in octopus form
Probably the weakest ECL 17 character I've ever saw.

Of course, you could just houserule the template into a mindflayer if you really want one. But then you'd have to accept rulings like "jet shouldn't work on land, or at leats it shouldn't work the same way it does in the water".

You didn't mention any of the mindflayer abilities. And the Rule of Cool applies to why I'm using RAW in such a way. No, I wouldn't have to accept rulings that don't follow RAW. In fact, most GMs wouldn't mind having a character like this in a humorous game.

Now if I wanted the Wereoctopus by RAW for optimization, I'd go for Incarnate Construct Warforged WereOctopus. Which would only have 1 LA for contracted Lycanthropy, and 2 animal HD. Sacrificing 3 levels seems fair to gain A cloud of concealment and the ability to jet 200ft. backwards. Its really not broken, or overpowered. Yes, RAI might agree that the abilities shouldn't work on land, but things would be more exciting if you went with RAW on this one. But in this game we have to embrace the RAW mistakes. How bad would it be for an underpowered 3rd level character to be able to Jet 200ft. backwards and use a cloud of concealment?

[ThiagoMartell]

You didn't mention any of the mindflayer abilities.

That's because you lose all of them due to the incarnate construct template.

[2xMachina]

IRL, Jet works in air. See those airplanes? Jet engines, where compressed air is expelled at speed to provide thrust, do not require water to push against.

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.

Concealment... wouldn't work in air IRL without converting to smoke, instead of liquid ink.

[Zale]

Less arguing, more weird Were-Creaturing.

Were-Orca!

Sure you'd have to be an epic level character, but the look on everyone's faces when that Hill Giant turns into an Orca..

[Menteith]

IRL, Jet works in air. See those airplanes? Jet engines, where compressed air is expelled at speed to provide thrust, do not require water to push against.

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.

Concealment... wouldn't work in air IRL without converting to smoke, instead of liquid ink.

Bear in mind neither ability works out of the water on the Antropomorphic (Giant) Octopus. Take from that what you will.

[Eldan]

I just had this awesome idea for Were-octopus pirates.

Just imagine. Ship sailing along. Suddenly, something flies out of the water at incredible speed. One of the sailors somewhere up in the rigging just vanishes with a splash. Three more sailors vanish, the rest rings the alarm.
Then it happens. Jumping out of the sea, fifty feet high, before landing on the upper decks and even the masts, octopus pirates.

[Zale]

Octopus Pirates: Glub Glub Glub!*

*Argh! Hand us your loot!

[eggs]

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.

Good luck backing that up.

[lunar2]

IRL, jet works on land

FTFY. just because something would work IRL, doesn't mean it's RAI. squid have only been documented as flying for a couple of years, while the monster manual came out a decade ago, so they definitely weren't intending for it to work that way.

[Deophaun]

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.

There's the problem of having that liquid in the first place. Once they're out of the water, it's like walking around with your mouth full. They'd be partially contracting their jet muscles the entire time to keep the cavity sealed off, which would get tiring and likely result in numerous small leaks. I'm not sure if they can even close the siphon end. And if they shifted while on land, they won't have any water in the mantle cavity to begin with.

This applies, of course, only if you're trying to take reality into account, which seems a strange things to do with the fantastical lycanthropy. If I was running a wereoctopus against my players, I wouldn't try to justify its abilities with biology or physics, as they literally can't hold water in this case. I'd just say "magic" and be done with it.

Edit: BTW, this has given me an idea for an encounter on a bridge over waters infested by fiendish octopi that have been given fly-by attack as a bonus feat.

[Deepbluediver]

IRL, Jet works in air. See those airplanes? Jet engines, where compressed air is expelled at speed to provide thrust, do not require water to push against.

RAI, jet works on land (probably at higher speeds, since air provides less resistance, providing your feet don't touch the ground). There's the problem of replenishing fluids though, if you stay with ejected liquid.

How fast does a jet airplane go when it's underwater? How fast does a jet speedboat go when it's on land?

The environment that something is intended to function in is critical; the jet-propulsion mechanism for a squid or octopus works by drawing in water, of which there is relatively very little in the atmosphere. That's why giant squid stay in the ocean instead of invading our cities...at least, so far.

I would consider a were-octopus (or squid, or shark, or just about anything else like that) to be perfectly acceptable in an aquatic campaign, but I would have real problems with allowing them to function unhindered on land.

Less arguing, more weird Were-Creaturing.

How about a were-sea anemone?

What I really want though is a were-lobster. Natural armor plating and killer claws will beat your jet-squid any day of the week.

[Zale]

While we're at it, why not a Were-Carp.

Dwarves will die swiftly.

[eggs]

Are "legs" a jargon term, or can we take Tauric's 4+leg specification colloquially enough to throw it on a Squid?

I could see a fun build in something like:
Amphibious Anthropomorphic Octopus 2/Barbarian 1/Champion of the Wild Ranger 4(/LA buyoff)/Warshaper 3/Primeval (Giant Octopus) 10

Pounce with lots of tentacles and high strength. Use Initiate of Horus Ra to hit Warshaper prereqs, but retrain for a Primeval entry feat at ECL11; use Primeval to turn into a bigger octopus with lots of tentacles; use Warshaper to grow even more tentacles. I'd need to dig around in CScoundrel to see which of Primevals requirements can be bought off (because they're awful).

[Afool]

Or perhaps we'll recieve a quest to rescue a little girl from Buttercup, the undead kitten-lich?"

By the gods can I sig this?

[Raimun]

And here I thought weredinosaurs were cool.

If I were to ever play a werecreature, a wereoctopus would be my top choice, starting now. Perhaps with a Hat of Disguise...
Also, I think it's only reasonable that the ink jet would only work in water. I'm pretty sure the real octopi can't use it on land. However, the wereoctopi should be able to function normally on land (sans the jet). At least in hybrid form?

I really need to research the fauna of D&D 3.5 more.

[Madara]

And here I thought weredinosaurs were cool.

If I were to ever play a werecreature, a wereoctopus would be my top choice, starting now. Perhaps with a Hat of Disguise...
Also, I think it's only reasonable that the ink jet would only work in water. I'm pretty sure the real octopi can't use it on land. However, the wereoctopi should be able to function normally on land (sans the jet). At least in hybrid form?

I really need to research the fauna of D&D 3.5 more.

This makes me really happy inside.

[ThiagoMartell]

It's funny how you would not get tentacles in hybrid form

[silverwolfer]

EverBreathing Fishbowl+ being on land

[Menteith]

Just use the Amphibious Template from Stormwrack. You take a -2 to Dex, and gain the Special Quality Amphibious, which persists through Alternate Form, giving you the ability to always breath air or water.

[Necroticplague]

Just use the Amphibious Template from Stormwrack. You take a -2 to Dex, and gain the Special Quality Amphibious, which persists through Alternate Form, giving you the ability to always breath air or water.

But Lycanthrope can only be applied to humanoids or giants and IIRC amphibious makes you a monstrous humanoid.

[lunar2]

so you become a lycanthrope before you become amphibious. when stacking templates, always put them in the order that is most beneficial.

[ThiagoMartell]

Use aquatic elf as the base creature, then.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Here's an interesting thought on the fluff.

The lycanthrope entry in the MM says that a lycanthrope in human form takes on characteristics reminiscent of his animal form. E.g. a wererat having a thin-ish mustache and beady eyes.


What features do you suppose a wereoctopus would have?.........

[Necroticplague]

Here's an interesting thought on the fluff.

The lycanthrope entry in the MM says that a lycanthrope in human form takes on characteristics reminiscent of his animal form. E.g. a wererat having a thin-ish mustache and beady eyes.


What features do you suppose a wereoctopus would have?.........

Unnaturally smooth, hairless skin, maybe high flexibility?

[eggs]

Tentacles. Obviously.

[Deth Muncher]

What features do you suppose a wereoctopus would have?.........

Devious, scheming eyes. Crazy beard braided into dreadlocks, not unlike Blackbeard.

Also, for more octopus goodness, I'd like to point out the Tako, from Oriental Adventures. They're Aberrations, but other than that they're basically octopi (the word tako means octopus in Japanese, fun fact), and they're pretty cool. No listing of the Ink ability though, funny enough. But if you're looking for a good place for ideas, that's a pretty good one, since it's an actual monster race.

Also also, how have I not seen this thread before? Octopi are my jank, yo.

Also also also, Octopus familiar is in fact in Stormwrack.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Tangentially, tako, not from OA, is delicious.

[ThiagoMartell]

Tangentially, tako, not from OA, is delicious.

Takoyaki ftw

[toapat]

a were-octopus would be able to change their skincolor and texture at will in any form.

[Kelb_Panthera]

snrk..... Bwah ha ha ha...... Were-octopus, walks into a japanese place and sees takoyaki, tako nigiri, and any of a half-dozen other octopus based foods, then faints from shock........ ROFLMAO.