Wereoctopus

[hex0]

Serious question: Do you get the arms in hybrid form? Or the grapple bonus in normal form? I'm just wondering if a wereoctupus would be a boon to a grappler build.

[Ammutseba]

Ok, this is how it works

Mindflayer -> Dustform -> Incarnate Construct -> WereOctopus

Abberation -> Construct -> Humanoid -> Humanoid(Shapechanger)


I really need a different template for the Abberation -> Construct part

Does it really need to be this complicated? Couldn't an illithid just take the Human Heritage feat, since they're mostly ceremorphosized from human stock?

[Madara]

Does it really need to be this complicated? Couldn't an illithid just take the Human Heritage feat, since they're mostly ceremorphosized from human stock?

Does that change its subtype? Also, it would restrict us to contracted lycanthropes, but that's doable.

Serious question: Do you get the arms in hybrid form? Or the grapple bonus in normal form? I'm just wondering if a wereoctupus would be a boon to a grappler build.

Yeah....

Same as the base creature or base animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using. A lycanthrope in hybrid form gains two claw attacks and a bite attack as natural weapons.

So here's the deal: You get improved grapple, and if you do giant octopus, I'm pretty sure you get the bonuses(Out of pity for all the spent HD)

Here's the problem:

An opponent can attack a giant octopus’s tentacles with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A giant octopus’s tentacles have 10 hit points each. If a giant octopus is currently grappling a target with the tentacle that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a giant octopus’s tentacles deals 5 points of damage to the creature. A giant octopus usually withdraws from combat if it loses four tentacles. The creature regrows severed limbs in 1d10+10 days.

This isn't listed as a special attack, or special quality. So, despite getting both, you probably don't get this ability.

Also relevent:

A lycanthrope’s hybrid form does not gain any special attacks of the base animal.

So you wouldn't gain constrict, which means you probably don't get the benefits you seek. On the other hand, with only 2HD, the normal Octopus is a great substitute for werebear for the Improved Grapple, and it also seems more flavorful.

[Ammutseba]

Does that change its subtype? Also, it would restrict us to contracted lycanthropes, but that's doable.

Yes, actually. If you are not a humanoid, it changes your type to humanoid with the human subtype and gives you 4 skill points. You also retain any other subtypes you had and all of the traits that are common to creatures of your original type.


So, just to make sure I'm understanding this completely... human heritage means we can have an illithid anthropomorphic octopus wereoctopus, with a total of 2 racial HD and +2 LA, right? And that we're still okay to take the totemist class and the aberrant blood and deepspawn feats?

[Madara]

Yes, actually. If you are not a humanoid, it changes your type to humanoid with the human subtype and gives you 4 skill points. You also retain any other subtypes you had and all of the traits that are common to creatures of your original type.


So, just to make sure I'm understanding this completely... human heritage means we can have an illithid anthropomorphic octopus wereoctopus, with a total of 2 racial HD and +2 LA, right? And that we're still okay to take the totemist class and the aberrant blood and deepspawn feats?

Doesn't the Illithid grant racial HD and LA? Unless you can think of an Illithid with 1HD. Otherwise, I shall build this and submit it as "Cuthulupus" to the Lycanthrope Animals and Builds compendium thing.

[Amidus Drexel]

Doesn't the Illithid grant racial HD and LA? Unless you can think of an Illithid with 1HD. Otherwise, I shall build this and submit it as "Cuthulupus" to the Lycanthrope Animals and Builds compendium thing.

With the proper application of negative levels, anything can have 1HD! Granted, that's pretty cheesy.

[Ammutseba]

Doesn't the Illithid grant racial HD and LA? Unless you can think of an Illithid with 1HD. Otherwise, I shall build this and submit it as "Cuthulupus" to the Lycanthrope Animals and Builds compendium thing.

Well, if it's a human heritage illithid, then it has the humanoid subtype, which qualifies it for anthropomorphic animal, and any anthropomorphic octopus has just 2 HD, regardless of how many hit dice the base creature had. So, I suppose it does still have the LA, whatever that is, but not the racial HDs.

Blar. I don't own a monster manual so I can't actually see what the illithid's stats are. :( Well, poo. After a little poking around, this monstrosity appears to be 2 racial HD with a +10 LA, and I can't figure out any good ways to bring that down.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Well, if it's a human heritage illithid, then it has the humanoid subtype, which qualifies it for anthropomorphic animal, and any anthropomorphic octopus has just 2 HD, regardless of how many hit dice the base creature had. So, I suppose it does still have the LA, whatever that is, but not the racial HDs.

Blar. I don't own a monster manual so I can't actually see what the illithid's stats are. :( Well, poo. After a little poking around, this monstrosity appears to be 2 racial HD with a +10 LA, and I can't figure out any good ways to bring that down.

You've horribly misread anthropomorphic animal.

The template is applied to animals and creates monstrous humanoids. It doesn't apply to humanoid creatures at all, IIRC.

Also, mind-flayers have something like 6-8 racial HD that human heritage does not remove.

What you've described -may- be possible, but it would require more cheese than a good fondue party.

[Ammutseba]

You've horribly misread anthropomorphic animal.

The template is applied to animals and creates monstrous humanoids. It doesn't apply to humanoid creatures at all, IIRC.

Also, mind-flayers have something like 6-8 racial HD that human heritage does not remove.

What you've described -may- be possible, but it would require more cheese than a good fondue party.

Oh, so I see. I probably shouldn't have been trying to read the template for lycanthrope at the same time. Sorry about all that.

But, actually, I didn't think the feat would get rid of racial HD. I was reading how many HD anthropomorphs have, and it said nothing about retaining racial, but instead just how many the template made them have.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Oh, so I see. I probably shouldn't have been trying to read the template for lycanthrope at the same time. Sorry about all that.

But, actually, I didn't think the feat would get rid of racial HD. I was reading how many HD anthropomorphs have, and it said nothing about retaining racial, but instead just how many the template made them have.

No biggy. Everyone makes mistakes. I recently was corrected on a misrepresentation of PA of all things. I really need to go through my PHB again sometime.