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  1. - Top - End - #1201
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Hint: The Gym Leader of the Evil-type Gym is the Big Bad.
    So...



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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    If that's the case I am suprised that there hasn't been a 'light/good' type poke yet. Though the new ability "Justified" kinda implies that dark is indeed evil.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    If that's the case I am suprised that there hasn't been a 'light/good' type poke yet. Though the new ability "Justified" kinda implies that dark is indeed evil.
    As a counterpoint, Absol is a Dark type, can also have the Ability "Justified." But judging from the Pokedex entries, this could be because Absol is really an misunderstood anti-hero than actually being evil.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    As a counterpoint, Absol is a Dark type, can also have the Ability "Justified." But judging from the Pokedex entries, this could be because Absol is really an misunderstood anti-hero than actually being evil.
    Pretty much.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    I also like my setup because each gym has an advantage over the next one. They'd all be super effective, but I couldn't get that particular sequence to work.

    Now if only I could justify Gym I as Ice, so I could bump off Psychic and have Dark as Gym VII...

    Edit:

    Maybe Steel, Ice, Ground, Electric, Flying, Fighting, Dark, Multitype? Not hose Fire Starters for a change?
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2012-10-31 at 11:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Also, aren't the Elite 4 supposed to also be everything the Gym Leaders are? I fail to see how this whole "can be MULTIPLE Elite 4 members but never a Gym Leader" thing works.
    While we're talking about this, let's not forget how the Elite 4 is in the manga...
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    The first Gym type should be neutral to Normal. I have hated how the Gen I, III, and IV Gyms had Rock as the first leader, so the generic Normal-type and the generic Flying-type you get early in the game are COMPLETELY USELESS in this fight. Gen I is worse because after that you get, you guessed it, a bunch of generic Pokemon that only have moves that are NVE against Rock, but Gen III is pretty bad too, since the generic Grass-type you get doesn't even naturally learn any Grass (or Water)-type moves.

    Just give us early Gyms for which we can use the generic Normal-type and generic Flying-type so we can use them and not feel like we're hindering ourselves.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    The first Gym type should be neutral to Normal. I have hated how the Gen I, III, and IV Gyms had Rock as the first leader, so the generic Normal-type and the generic Flying-type you get early in the game are COMPLETELY USELESS in this fight. Gen I is worse because after that you get, you guessed it, a bunch of generic Pokemon that only have moves that are NVE against Rock, but Gen III is pretty bad too, since the generic Grass-type you get doesn't even naturally learn any Grass (or Water)-type moves.

    Just give us early Gyms for which we can use the generic Normal-type and generic Flying-type so we can use them and not feel like we're hindering ourselves.
    I'm going to disagree. Having a gym leader that resists Normal is there precisely to force the player to go look for something that can beat it - so long as there is a something to find. Gen I was terrible about that, I'll admit - but Charmeleon could still Ember everything and have a decent chance of beating the gym, simply because of terrible Special for Geodude and Onix, and them lacking anything super-effective. As for Gen III, I don't know what you're talking about, because they practically force feed you water types in Hoenn. By the time you get to Rustboro, you've got two water types (with water type attacks!) available to you, and if you're not playing Ruby, Lotad learns Absorb at level 7, and Marill, which is available in Emerald earlier, learns Water Gun at 10. And Shroomish, which starts with Absorb. And the Makuhita you can trade for, which leans Arm Thrust at 10. AND Combusken, which learns Double Kick at 16 - you have to be trying not to get a super-effective attack by the Gym.

    I'll admit that I hated the Trio Badge gym, though, because the monkeys are stupid. And Work-Up is hax early on.
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2012-11-01 at 12:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    The monkeys were my least favourite ever. Generally, lame pokemon are just there, but there's no incentive to use them.

    For the monkeys, they earn your trust in one gym so they can fail spectacularly in a route or two when they're needed.

    I actually took an empty slot over the monkey in my 2nd white playthrough.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    I still want to see a HG/SS rom hack that attempts to be FR/LG v2 except call it Lightning Yellow.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Rock-type gyms just annoy me. Since your starter is by default amazing against all the 1st Rock-type Gyms, you don't actually have to go looking for anything, which actually refutes your point (even in Gen I). As a result you catch all these Pokemon that are unusable and you just use your starter to do all the work anyways. "Why am I catching all these Pokemon, they don't do anything!" It'd be more interesting if, like in Gen V, your starter was weak to the first Gym Leader so you had to use something else, like perhaps a Pidove or a Lillipup. And then you learn that wow, maybe these guys are usable! Rewarding you for catching Pokemon at the beginning of the game instead of punishing you for wasting your time/money/effort, what a concept!

    Gen II didn't quite do this well either. Though it did reward you for catching and using Ratatta or Pidgey in part, it punished you hard for using Bug-types, Bellsprout, or Gastly, who I'm pretty sure can't touch Pidgeotto for the majority of its levels. Or Zubat for that matter, but Zubat is pretty painful to use anyways.
    Last edited by tgva8889; 2012-11-01 at 12:50 AM.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Gen II didn't quite do this well either. Though it did reward you for catching and using Ratatta or Pidgey in part...
    Onix and Geodude, too.

    Come to think of it, I guess Onix was the reward for catching bellsprout.
    Last edited by OracleofWuffing; 2012-11-01 at 01:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Still, it's a shame there hasn't been a dark gym yet. Maybe everybody inside always tells lies, so you have to follow the exact opposite of their directions to get through the gym? Or some of the trainers lie, and others truth, but there's always a pattern to tell liars from truthers, and you need to apply it to see who is honest and who isn't. Then the leader apologizes for the trouble once he's beaten, and admits that his gym is his idea of joking around with people.
    Last edited by dgnslyr; 2012-11-01 at 01:50 AM.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Hint: The Gym Leader of the Evil-type Gym is the Big Bad.
    Now that's just lazy writing.

    Also, aren't the Elite 4 supposed to also be everything the Gym Leaders are? I fail to see how this whole "can be MULTIPLE Elite 4 members but never a Gym Leader" thing works.
    Look at it this way: Gym Leaders are the high school coaches, mentoring new trainers directly, while the Elite 4 are the professional athletes that inspired the new trainers to become trainers in the first place. Both serve as role models, but mentor figures are held to a higher standard.

    That's my interpretation of it, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    If that's the case I am suprised that there hasn't been a 'light/good' type poke yet. Though the new ability "Justified" kinda implies that dark is indeed evil.
    I always figured that Fighting was the good/noble to Dark's evil/underhanded. It fits well with Fighting being super-effective against and resistant to Dark.

    The idea of "Light type" Pokemon is a pet peeve of mine. It doesn't really add anything to the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgnslyr View Post
    Still, it's a shame there hasn't been a dark gym yet. Maybe everybody inside always tells lies, so you have to follow the exact opposite of their directions to get through the gym? Or some of the trainers lie, and others truth, but there's always a pattern to tell liars from truthers, and you need to apply it to see who is honest and who isn't. Then the leader apologizes for the trouble once he's beaten, and admits that his gym is his idea of joking around with people.
    That actually sounds like a decent gym gimmick. It's certainly better than "Look at me, I'm a Gym Leader who uses Dark-types! Isn't that so cool and edgy!" Which is what most fan-made Dark Gyms seem to be.

    The only fan-made Dark Gym Leader that I could take seriously was a crotchety old man with a gambling problem. It made sense in context (he ran the Game Corner), and it was a refreshing change of pace from all the cool young rebels.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Dark = Evil kinda flies in the face of the whole "Pokemon aren't inherently Evil" though...

    At least the anime doesn't seem biased in that regard. As Ash appears to to tanking round with a Scraggy nowadays, if that episode I saw the other day was any indication (plus Gary and his Umbreon...)

    On top of that, nobody bats an eyelid at the player (and ten-year old kid) trotting round with a party full of Dark-types (or legendaries for that matter1), so I think the game designers ought be addressing that point before using a "we can't have an Evil Gym" defence...

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    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2012-11-01 at 08:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    Hint: The Gym Leader of the Evil-type Gym is the Big Bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate the Snake View Post
    Now that's just lazy writing.

    The only fan-made Dark Gym Leader that I could take seriously was a crotchety old man with a gambling problem. It made sense in context (he ran the Game Corner), and it was a refreshing change of pace from all the cool young rebels.
    No no no, see the Dark-type Gym Leader is actually a Snape-like character, an anti-hero that is built up to be the evil mastermind since the 2nd or 3rd gym until you beat him at the 8th. The surprise comes in that he's actually trying to figure out who is the leader of Team Bad Guys (and why no one seems to able to raise a hand against them.)

    Then the player goes to the Elite Four, and then discover that the leader of Team Bad Guy was actually the Champion, who was helping you along the way, even help you take down some members of his own Team, all because he saw you as a potential strong ally in trying to take over the world. Before the fight begins, he offers you the position of second in command. The player then can decide to either join him, fight him because he's wrong or... fight him anyway because you want to be the leader.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Then the player goes to the Elite Four, and then discover that the leader of Team Bad Guy was actually the Champion, who was helping you along the way, even help you take down some members of his own Team, all because he saw you as a potential strong ally in trying to take over the world. Before the fight begins, he offers you the position of second in command. The player then can decide to either join him, fight him because he's wrong or... fight him anyway because you want to be the leader.
    That would be pretty cool if you were actually given the option of joining with him. I'm tired of all of these games where the big bad actually gives you a choice, and then you get a cutscene where your hero refuses.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by tgva8889 View Post
    ...As a result you catch all these Pokemon that are unusable and you just use your starter to do all the work anyways. "Why am I catching all these Pokemon, they don't do anything!"...
    This is why I ended up with nothing but a level 80+ Charizard in red version (well, also a tentacool for surf).

    Does anyone know what's up with the "level 9 Zekrom" type requests in the GTS? Are there level 1 event legendaries* or would you have to hack/cheat to get one?

    *Besides Palkia/Giratina/Dialga
    Last edited by Derjuin; 2012-11-01 at 09:25 AM.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate the Snake View Post
    I always figured that Fighting was the good/noble to Dark's evil/underhanded. It fits well with Fighting being super-effective against and resistant to Dark.
    It's not so much that Fighting is inherently good and noble as that they're better equipped to fight the combat pragmatism of the Dark type... by focusing on martial arts, they're just better at fighting and defending against underhanded strikes, and when you're trying something sneaky, one of the fastest ways to put an end to that is to just punch you in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate the Snake View Post
    The idea of "Light type" Pokemon is a pet peeve of mine. It doesn't really add anything to the game.
    Especially considering that we already have Pokémon that can do that, thanks to the Electric and Fire types. That's two types that specialize in a particular form of pure energy, we don't really need a third.
    Quote Originally Posted by Othesemo View Post
    That would be pretty cool if you were actually given the option of joining with him. I'm tired of all of these games where the big bad actually gives you a choice, and then you get a cutscene where your hero refuses.
    That wouldn't really feel like Pokémon, then, IMO...
    Quote Originally Posted by Derjuin View Post
    Does anyone know what's up with the "level 9 Zekrom" type requests in the GTS? Are there level 1 event legendaries* or would you have to hack/cheat to get one?

    *Besides Palkia/Giratina/Dialga
    I think it's to create "impossible" trades so they can store the Pokémon there for something (such as the GTS evolution exploit), more than to try to get impossible Pokémon.

  20. - Top - End - #1220
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    That wouldn't really feel like Pokémon, then, IMO...
    Bit of a catch-22, then. It's difficult to make that sort of thing work out, and I agree that pokemon wouldn't be the ideal medium for it. It's more in the realm of the witcher than anything.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    I want the Champion to be the Mother. We need more badass females.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    I want the Champion to be the Mother. We need more badass females.
    That would be awesome!

    "Now you can finally fight the Champion! Here she comes!" *Mother arrives*

    "MOM?!?"

    *Gets stomped by own mother in battle*
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrian View Post
    That would be awesome!

    "Now you can finally fight the Champion! Here she comes!" *Mother arrives*

    "MOM?!?"

    *Gets stomped by own mother in battle*
    Oh yes,

    I just got a female prankster Murkrow. Any recommendations?
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrian View Post
    That would be awesome!

    "Now you can finally fight the Champion! Here she comes!" *Mother arrives*

    "MOM?!?"

    *Gets stomped by own mother in battle*
    After all, how else did you get to be so good in such a short time? It runs in the family. (Nate/Rosa's mom knew Hilbert/Hilda's mom and Juniper when the latter two were trainers and the former was a Pokémon Center receptionist, Norman is a gym leader, Johanna is part of your competition in Super Contests, and the rest of the player characters' families are unknowns...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Phoenix View Post
    Oh yes,

    I just got a female prankster Murkrow. Any recommendations?
    Breed it like crazy.
    Last edited by Mando Knight; 2012-11-01 at 11:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Another idea for a Dark Gym: each trainer breaks the rules in some way. Two challenge you at a time while you're only allowed one pokemon, one starts with Toxic Spikes on the battlefield, one has seven pokemon with him, one starts with your pokemon confused, one uses pokemon that are anything but Dark types and nicknames them as other mons entirely, the Leader has a Zoroark that has different moves in his Illusion form, which is not a pokemon in his party...

    Stuff like that. You get a riddle before each battle that clues you in on the cheating tactic up next.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Personally, I would want a more open world style game. Where you can start anywhere, go to the gyms in any order, etc. No dancing men railroading and such.

    The gyms could be justified by making gym leader teams based on how many badges you already have. What I'm not sure about is if doing this how you deal with trainers/wild pokemon. I guess you could have most wild pokemon running around at level 5-10, with higher level pokemon being rare. (This then makes repel very useful for training, as you just get to ignore lower level pokemon), but I can't think of any logical way to avoid having trainers that are way higher or way lower than you without the railroad pokemon usually implements.

    Either way, I would also want the Pokemon League/Champion to be like, the real end game. Not "You need to finish this to open up the other half of the map and do stuff". All that other stuff should be available from the get go, beating the Champion should be taking down a team of optimized level 100s, and be a real challenge even to longtime players. It just makes no sense to me that you beat the Elite 4/Champion, then you unlock new areas where the wild pokemon and trainers (including friggin toddlers) are all higher level than the pokemon league.
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Personally, I would want a more open world style game. Where you can start anywhere, go to the gyms in any order, etc. No dancing men railroading and such.

    The gyms could be justified by making gym leader teams based on how many badges you already have. What I'm not sure about is if doing this how you deal with trainers/wild pokemon. I guess you could have most wild pokemon running around at level 5-10, with higher level pokemon being rare. (This then makes repel very useful for training, as you just get to ignore lower level pokemon), but I can't think of any logical way to avoid having trainers that are way higher or way lower than you without the railroad pokemon usually implements.

    Either way, I would also want the Pokemon League/Champion to be like, the real end game. Not "You need to finish this to open up the other half of the map and do stuff". All that other stuff should be available from the get go, beating the Champion should be taking down a team of optimized level 100s, and be a real challenge even to longtime players. It just makes no sense to me that you beat the Elite 4/Champion, then you unlock new areas where the wild pokemon and trainers (including friggin toddlers) are all higher level than the pokemon league.
    I still want one game with all the regions and all the Pokemon. Or at least the next pair to include everything between them both.

    And I know why they don't allow you to breed Legendaries, but I'd like to be able to. Because I love the level grinding of Pokemon, but I hate that these Legendaries, especially the ones I really love, all start level 60+. And I really hate that if you look in the detailed Pokedex, it shows what moves they learn at what level. Now why does it matter if Reshiram learns move X at level 13? I'll NEVER get to see him at that level without cheating.
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    I'm back! Sorta. Not really. Kinda though.

  28. - Top - End - #1228
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Qwertystop's Avatar

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    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrian View Post
    I still want one game with all the regions and all the Pokemon. Or at least the next pair to include everything between them both.
    Problem is, unless they compress things massively, you'll end up somewhere from 40-60 after the first region. Then, either everything in the later regions is scaled up and you end up level 100 before you're halfway through the second, or they're not scaled, it's a cakewalk, and you still probably get to 80-100 by the end of the second region's eighth gym.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

  29. - Top - End - #1229
    Troll in the Playground
     
    OracleofWuffing's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Well, they could always raise the level ca- *EXPLOSION!*
    "Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
    ---
    "Oh, hey, look! Blue Eyes Black Lotus!" "Wait what, do you sacrifice a mana to the... Does it like, summon a... What would that card even do!?" "Oh, it's got a four-energy attack. Completely unviable in actual play, so don't worry about it."

  30. - Top - End - #1230
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    UTC -6

    Default Re: Pokémon Thread XIII: Our Ponies are ON FIRE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Then, either everything in the later regions is scaled up and you end up level 100 before you're halfway through the second, or they're not scaled, it's a cakewalk, and you still probably get to 80-100 by the end of the second region's eighth gym.
    Not true. Going from Johto to Kanto, you've still got a major level grind ahead of you to beat Red. They'll probably lower the gym level scaling from BW2 if they do so, though.

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