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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XXXV. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.
    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. This comes up often enough to bear mention in the rules: Dragon Compendium is allowed.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59PM GMT on Saturday, July 28th, 2012 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Amphetryon. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 11:59PM GMT on Saturday, August 11th, 2012 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.
    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
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    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
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    [b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]Class[/b]|[b]Base Attack Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[b]Skills[/b]|[b]Feats[/b]|[b]Class Features[/b]

    1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
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    Spells per day/Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
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    [b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

    This week's special ingredient is:
    Heroes of Horror's Death Delver
    We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

    Allez optimiser!

    Contestants

    Judges

    The Builds

    Past Competitions

    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
    Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
    Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
    Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
    Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
    Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
    Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
    Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
    Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
    Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
    Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
    Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
    Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
    Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel
    Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara
    Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator
    Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2012-07-14 at 06:14 PM.
    Crucible of the Word and Sword

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    FAQ:
    Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes, but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Similarly, materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

    What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Amphetryon is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is illegal by the RAW, the judge may give a 0 or decline to score a given entry. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.
    Crucible of the Word and Sword

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Madara's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    I like this, its a very open PrC. As always, nice choice, Amphetryon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashmir View Post
    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
    Blood~

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Wow it's not my birthday but it sure feels like it.

    If the chairman is just working through the DD abbreviated Prestige classes I'm glad this one is next.

    Now to be a contestant or a judge...
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    You don't see the gnomes running around fighting wars with each other, do you? No, because they're civilized.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Dumbledore lives's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Well the entry requirements are relatively easy and open, and after reading through the class that is all I have to say right now. Much contemplation is required.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    If you're ever in a situation where you can't survive, go for the broke and fill all of creation with chickens. Just imagine the reaction of people halfway around the world when every square inch of space in their world is suddenly and completely full of chickens.
    Homebrew
    1st in Iron Chef XXXIV with a Warforged bard

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Throwing my hat in as a judge

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    But, I can't work with thi--

    No, wait. Maybe. Yeah, I can create something. Just gotta go book diving.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Thumbs up Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Oh, I am soooo in as a contestant! I've actually been working on a Death Delver build while waiting for the Dragon Disciple comp to wrap up!

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    I might be able to do something with this...

    Fun times are ahead. Lots of them.

    Oh, and I nearly sent this as a report; funny, that.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Oh, I am soooo in as a contestant! I've actually been working on a Death Delver build while waiting for the Dragon Disciple comp to wrap up!
    Well, looks like you've got your wish, then.

    I've got a build idea or two - let's see if I can make anything out of them before the 28th, eh?

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    The Power of the Orient: A Wu Jen Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S. Kemp
    Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn’t a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Away from books right now, which is killing me as I can't actually remember anything about the PrC. Count me in as a contestant!

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    welp, looks like I'm in.

    I hope my guy/gal/thing does better than my rocky/harry potter mashup last time
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Hot dang, looks like I called it!

    I will try my best to get a build in. Last contest had the double whammy of car accident plus major power outage, but I think I should be able to get something in this time around.
    Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus: Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
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    GOLD MEDALS
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    smile Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    I'm in and know the rules this time...

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Hot dang! Death Delver is actually a pretty fun PrC. Still not the one I'm sniping for (actually, not one of the ones I'm sniping for), but it's tempting enough to pinch my desires to compete. It's tough, but manageable, and it can stand on its own pretty well.

    Heck, I already got two ideas. Don't count me in, but I'll see what I can do (if work doesn't interrupt me).
    Retooler of D&D 3.5 content. See here for more.
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    On Lawful Good:
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    My friend is currently playing a paladin. It's way outside his normal zone. I told him to try to channel Santa Claus, Mr. Rogers, and Kermit the Frog. Until someone refuses to try to get off the naughty list. Then become Optimus Prime.
    T.G. Oskar profile by Specter.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Only two? I have like 5.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    For power level I am looking at how it stands up against the other competitors, not at the finish build but throughout the whole build. Does it use any of the SI abilities to boost it up by great amounts.

    For elegance I am looking at how well the classes flow together. If their is more then one person with the same class you will be deducted points, but you may make it up in power by outshining those that made the build as you did. Did you have your feats planned out and they fell into place perfectly, these are some of the things I will be looking for.

    As with elegance points will be taken more so for multiple people making the same build for originality. If it seems like it is to obvious don't do it. or make it your own, after all you do get points if you outshine those that have the same basic build. You will result in an automatic 1 if I can find the build online made by someone else for the fact that you created nothing only copied someone else work, so please try to refrain from it. And please backstorys can never hurt you, trust me I learned it the hard way that with a backstory you score much higher then without.

    And lastly the use of the SI. Saying it is not hard to qualify for if you do not meet all the requirements when you take the first level you shall lose 1 point. Next will be did you take all ten levels and did they benefit the build. If you just took them because you had to and could of made something better by using other Prc points will be taken.

    Well this is what I will be judging by so good luck contestants. And I'm truthfully getting scared with all these submissions I hope we have more then me.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Dantiesilva, can you please elaborate upon why having a build similar to another contestant will result in deductions under both Originality and Elegance?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Oh, man, I would never use this SI in a build, this is going to be tough.
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    Not illegal (and it largely doesn't matter due to Divine Salient Abilities), but Moradin has 14 levels in Expert. WotC decided that the God of all Dwarves took an NPC class.
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    Wow. Next dwarf I meet in-game I'm totally figuring out a way to rag on him about that.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Because i have seen other judges do it. And at the same time they will gain points in power for it if it outshines the rest.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    I'm going to go with the same build everyone else first thought of, and then ditched on the thought that its too obvious. Come on Fake-Out!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by dantiesilva View Post
    Because i have seen other judges do it.
    Which judges, in which contest(s)?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Ooooh. I am in also. Hopefully I can do better than I did last time.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Which judges, in which contest(s)?
    Last round, this guy based just about every score on Originality and whether another contestant used the same class. Is that not how it is supposed to be? If not can we get some guidance on what Originality means?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3ro View Post
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    Originality: 4.0 Another contestant selected Azurin, and another used Incarnum (though not Incarnate). These are small quibbles in an otherwise highly original build (which is impressive this round). An earth themed warrior in a dragon contest, that fights primarily through burrowing? Very cool.

    Originality: 1.5 This is not exactly original. Soul eater/anything with natural weapons is a combo that has been around a long time, and one I fully expected this round.

    Originality: 2.0 There’s nothing particularly noteworthy about this build in this regard. It’s the only one with Abjurant Champion, I suppose, but it uses human sorcerer, hardly original, and doesn’t really do anything with that. Nothing in the power setup or trick department either, and the lack of a backstory really hurts.

    Originality: 3.5 The only wizard to attempt to enter the contest this round, so points for that (I was sure there’d be more; see elegance as to why there weren’t) and the only frost mage as well. You do focus on natural attacks, something others do as well, but many others went the VoP route.

    Originality: 2.0 Stalwart Battle Sorcerer, one of the most popular entrants. You tried to focus more on Tome of Battle, so a little bump there, along with focusing on familiars, something no one else did.

    Originality: 4.0 Surprisingly, the only warmage and talon of tiamat this round (I totally expected more of both). Also get points for being a primary spell caster, something very few others did.

    Originality: 3. Urpriest is original and completely unexpected, but human duskblade are kinda blah and expected, so average.

    Originality: 3.0 The only Kensai, something I honestly thought we’d see more of. The rest of your build is pretty standard, however. Melee, focusing on natural attacks, is pretty much the definition of unoriginal. This would have been lower, but I really liked the story of the dragon mentor and his murder (it would have been higher, too, had the story had a more satisfying ending).

    Originality: 4.0 Marshal was different and unexpected, but dragon samurai was not, in addition to being used by another competitor. I really liked the backstory, which, even if far-fetched, was entertaining to read and really brought the character together. Didn’t see many builds focusing on their breath weapons, so bonus for that.

    Originality: 3.0 Battle sorcerer and Azurin were used by other contestants, but totemist was original. Focusing on natural attacks was done by many other builds, leaving you with only an average score.

    Originality: 3.0 Dread Necromancer was different and unexpected, but fighter was also used, not to mention a build that focuses on natural attacks. Could have potentially been higher if you had a backstory to tie things together.

    Originality: 4.0 Um…wow. Anthropomorphic giant octopus was totally unexpected. Enough that after I deduct for stalwart battle sorcerer and half-dragon paragon, you still end up with a good score. The story was interesting, though with half-black dragon I was hoping Yul’uth-ca would end up being the villain of the story.

    Originality: 2.0 Battle dancer and dragon devotee were both used this round, as was elf. The only original part of the build was sword of righteousness, but that was enough for more than a below average score.

    Originality: 3.0 Plenty of sorcerer to go around this time, though Neanderthal and wonderworker were unique. Builds focusing on the breath weapon were in the minority, so points there. Overall, average.

    Originality: 4.0 The only orc and the only warblade this round. Small penalty for duskblade, but otherwise a fairly original build. Plus anyone who puts down great-spoon for proficiency deserves a bonus in my book.

    Originality: 1.0 You took several classes (fighter, stalwart sorcerer) that many others used, and you copied an existing, popular character.

    Originality: 4.5 Surprised we didn’t see more bard or warforged this time around; maybe everyone else thought it would be too obvious. Their loss is your gain. The only reason this isn’t a 5.0 is that many other builds used VoP.

    Originality: 2.0 Sorcerer got a lot of love this round, and half-dragon paragon saw action too. Generic warrior was not used by anyone else, and for good reason (see elegance). Nothing else original about the build.

    Originality: 4.0 Spirit Shaman and swanmay were unique entries into the competition, but like many others you went with VoP and a natural attack build, so a good, but not great, score.

    Originality: 2.0 I totally wanted to give a better score to the tiger, but I couldn’t. Sorcerer was especially overplayed this round, and dragon samurai was also used.

    Originality: 3.0 Centaur was fun, and one of my favorite races, but both barbarian and dragon devotee saw action elsewhere. Overall just average.

    Originality: 2.0[/b] Battle dancer was different (though used elsewhere), as was thayan gladiator, but every other element of your build, from daelkyr to assassin to soul eater saw action in other builds. Not to mention another build also went to negative energy route, same as you.


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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Proctor View Post
    Last round, this guy based just about every score on Originality and whether another contestant used the same class. Is that not how it is supposed to be? If not can we get some guidance on what Originality means?
    The question is about deducting from both Originality AND Elegance based on being similar to other entries.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    It's usually best if you don't worry too much about Originality and focus on the other three, particularly if you don't have much op-fu.

    However, if you do care: the times I've judged, Originality tends to focus on unusual things done with the build that others don't, and that aren't expected already. For example: entry with a different class as expected (entering Assassin through a Paladin, for example) tends to be original, and so does entering through, say, a dip in Beguiler and then probably one or two more levels in another class. On the other hand, Rogue is essentially the expected entry point, so that deducts some points.

    Another quip that judges evaluate are the stories. I can't say all of them evaluate the stories (whether in-depth or just through a cursory look), but if the story is refreshing and interesting, and explains well why each piece of the build fits where it goes (instead of being forced upon), then it nets points on Originality. This has a load of explanations, but a clever backstory may reveal an otherwise unthought reason why to enter a PrC that might not be suited for X or Y class, one that may actually flow well into an existing story. This, though, overlaps a bit with Elegance, which is essentially the "presentation" of the build (as per the "presentation" of the plate on the actual IC/IC America show).

    Another original point is introducing obscure sources that may not be actually considered. This also conflicts with Elegance (sure, you used an obscure source to get one race/PrC that really fits and can blow one's mind, but how accessible IS that source anyways?), but it depends on how much the judge can be surprised.

    In short: if something surprises the judge in how the build is presented, because it makes it stand out, that adds to Originality. However, if that bit seems tacked on, or just added to make it stand out but adds nothing to the class, then it most definitely worthy of a penalty to Elegance (as it sacrifices power for flavor). The measure of it, though, varies with each Judge.

    Now, based on Elegance and how other builds compare...if a build is Elegant, it will be elegant every iteration. It's not incomprehensible that two, three, or even ALL minds reach the same conclusion, and since this is a blind-judged competition, it's impossible to ensure all entries will differ. Similarity in builds shouldn't punish Elegance, as if the build works magnificently because of it, then it should be praised instead of penalized (specifically if it's simple, which alongside with effective hallmarks Elegance). Two distinct builds that use the same trick isn't a penalty to Elegance; it's showcasing the trick as a worthwhile (or not-worthwhile) one, and one iteration may be better than the other (which is the realm of Power). I don't intend this to influence the standards of any judge, but it's something that merits being pointed out.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    1. Count me in for this one. I have 4 ideas narrowed down to two, and I'll end up submitting my favorite of the two.
    2. Question: There is a column for class abilities. What about listing racial abilities? Should they be listed at level 1? Can I list them separately if I find them important?
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    When I die, I donate my body to the cause of whatever ******* finds it first.
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    Really though, how effin scary would the beach be if an octopus could launch itself outta the water at a 200' move speed every 6 seconds. I'd never go to the beach again... I thought flying sharks were scary...
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    *muffled voice from within pile of books* But, it's right there. I can't with that. Everyone's going to...

    This one's hard.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    Rules question, a loose reading of the Spontaneous cure/inflict ability:
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    Spontaneous Casting: By 2nd level, your familiarity
    with the ebb and flow of death has blossomed to the point
    that, like a cleric, you can lose any prepared spell in order to
    cast any cure spell of the same level or lower. An evil death
    delver can only spontaneously convert prepared spells into
    inflict spells of equal level or lower. Neutral death delvers
    must choose whether they will cast spontaneous cure or inflict
    spells and can never change their selection once the choice
    has been made.

    could be applied to other spellcasting than Death Delver?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XXXV

    @Madara: List everything you think is important to your entry. You'll almost always be better off listing more than you think you need, rather than less.
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