Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    OOC Material
    Spoiler
    Show
    Here is a Paladin Non-Homebrew Homebrew made using only two tweeks, one homebrewed ability, and 3 modifications. The rest is all from printed material. as such, i do not feel that it could justifyably be called a full homebrew, nor am I entirely sure it belongs in Homebrew design instead of Role Playing Games.


    Those who seek to fight tyranny, to heal the sick, Those who fight darkness and help the fearful. They are the Paladins, and they fight for the good of others. They hope for peace, but fight an endless war against evil.


    "Where Tyranny rules, Justice shall revolt
    Who Fear holds, Hope shall free
    Which Cruelty torments, Mercy shall reach
    When Suffering spreads, I bring Release
    Where Darkness Reigns, Light shall Conquer
    Paladin"
    ~ Oath of the True Lightbringer Paladin order.


    Gameplay Information:
    Attributes: A paladin Favors strength, as it allows them better accuracy, spell DCs, and spellcasting. Constitution for health and fortitude saves, and Charisma for saves, smite bonuses, and spells. Dexterity improves the paladin's reflex saves, AC, and Innitive.
    Alignment: Any Good
    Hit Die: 1d10
    Starting Age: Moderate
    Starting Gold: 150gp

    Paladin
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |1st|2nd|3rd|4th

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Detect Evil, Aura of Good, Smite Evil 1/day|ó|ó|ó|ó

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Lay on Hands, Divine Grace|ó|ó|ó|ó

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Divine Health, Aura of Resolve|ó|ó|ó|ó

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Mettle, Battle Blessing, Turn Undead|0|ó|ó|ó

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Special Mount, Smite Evil 2/day|0|ó|ó|ó

    6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5|Haste (Self) 1/day|0|ó|ó|ó

    7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Bonus Feat|0|ó|ó|ó

    8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6|Celestial Mount|0|0|ó|ó

    9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|Spellshatter 1/day|0|0|ó|ó

    10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Bonus Feat, Smite Evil 3/day|0|1|ó|ó

    11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|Divine Persistance|0|1|0|ó

    12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8|Spellshatter 2/day|0|1|1|ó

    13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|Bonus Feat|0|1|1|ó

    14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|Improved Mettle|1|1|1|0

    15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Spellshatter 3/day, Smite Evil 4/day|1|1|1|1

    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|Bonus Feat|1|2|1|1

    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10||2|2|2|1

    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Spellshatter 4/day|2|2|2|1

    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Bonus Feat|2|3|3|2

    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Smite Evil 5/day|2|3|3|3[/table]

    Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis)
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) ◊ 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier

    Class Abilities:
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

    Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladinís aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.

    Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.

    Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, and is not used up for the day.
    At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level.
    In addition to the normal effect, beginning at 5th level, whenever a creature is struck by the paladin's smite evil, that creature finds it difficult to cast spells or use magical items. For one round, any attempt to complete one of these actions requires a sucessful concentration check against a DC of (10+paladin level+charisma modifier); Failure means that the action fails. If a spell was being cast, the spell or spell slot is lost. If a magic item was being activated, the attempt mearly fails. Multiple Smite Evil attempts on the same creature do not have cumulative effect.

    Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

    Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to five times her paladin level ◊ her Charisma bonus. A paladin may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesnít have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action.
    Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesnít provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.

    Aura of Resolve (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to compulsion effects. Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects. This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

    Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.

    Battle Blessing (Ex): A Paladin can cast most of her paladin spells faster than normal. If the spell normally requires a standard action, she can cast it as a swift action. If it normally requires a full round to cast, she can cast it as a standard action. Spells with longer or shorter casting times are not affected.

    Mettle (Su): The Paladin's conviction is so strong, that she is able to shrug off magical effects that would harm her. If a Paladin makes a successful Will or Fortitude saving throw that would normally reduce the spell's effect, she suffers no effect from the spell at all. Only those spells with a Saving Throw entry of "Will partial," "Fortitude half," or similar entries can be negated through this ability.

    Improved Mettle (Su):As with Mettle, but the paladin also receives half damage on a failed Fortitude save, or partial damage on a failed Will save.

    Turn Undead (Su): When a paladin reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of three levels lower would.

    Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list*. A paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
    To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladinís spell is 10 + the spell level + the paladinís Strength modifier.
    Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Strength score.

    A paladin can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time, and a Paladin knows all spells on the Paladin Spell list.

    Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is three less then her paladin level.

    *Add the following spells to the paladin's spell list: 1stóprotection from law; 3rdómagic circle against law; 4thódispel law, freedom of movement.

    Special Mount (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil (see below). This mount is usually a Griffon (for a Medium paladin) or a Medium Griffon (for a Small paladin).

    Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladinís level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin and remains for 2 hours per paladin level; it may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the paladin may release a particular mount from service.

    Each time the mount is called, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect.

    Should the paladinís mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the dead. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a Ė1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.

    Haste (Sp): A paladin may cast Haste targeting herself once per day starting at sixth level.

    Bonus Feat: Beginning at 7th level, and every fourth level, a paladin gains a bonus feat. A paladin is treated as a Fighter of her level for feat Prerequisites.

    Celestial Mount (Ex): The Paladin's mount is a mighty divine being. Beginning at eighth level, the Paladin's Special Mount gains the Half Celestial template.

    Spellshatter (Su): Once per day, beginning at 9th level, a Paladin can choose to deliver a targeted Greater Dispel Magic with a Melee attack. The decision to use this ability must be made before the attack is rolled. If the attack misses, the ability is wasted.
    if the attack hits, treat this as if the paladin had cast Greater Dispel Magic on the creature struck, using her paladin level as her caster level.
    A paladin may use this ability an additional time each day every third level afterwards.

    Divine Persistance (Su): Beginning at level 11, a paladin may weave positive energy into her spellcasting. Whenever a paladin casts a spell with a duration other then instant that targets herself, she may expend two uses of Turn undead for the day. If she does, treat the spell as though it was affected by Metamagic: Persist.

    Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of a good alignment. A paladin should act with honor and respect, help those in need, and to punish those who threaten or harm the innocent. A paladin who is not of good alignment looses all Supernatural abilities until she atones.

    Paladin Afterlife: In death, a Paladin does not travel to the celestial plane of her alignment, but instead arrives at the Demiplane known as the Bastion of Righteous Hope. Here, paladins tend to their mounts, dine in magnificent mead halls, debate the best ways to fight evil, and prepare for raids on the infernal and Abyssal realms.

    Paladin's Mount:


    Spoiler
    Show
    Paladinís Mount Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the mountís kind, but make changes to take into account the attributes and characteristics summarized on the table and described below.

    Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Consitution modifier, as normal. Extra Hit Dice improve the mountís base attack and base save bonuses. A special mountís base attack bonus is equal to that of a cleric of a level equal to the mountís HD. A mount has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animalís HD). The mount gains additional skill points or feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monsterís Hit Dice.

    Natural Armor Adj.: The number on the table is an improvement to the mountís existing natural armor bonus.
    Str Adj.: Add this figure to the mountís Strength score.
    Int: The mountís Intelligence score.

    Empathic Link (Su): The paladin has an empathic link with her mount out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The paladin cannot see through the mountís eyes, but they can communicate empathically.
    Note that even intelligent mounts see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.
    Because of this empathic link, the paladin has the same connection to an item or place that her mount does, just as with a master and his familiar (see Familiars).

    Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a mount takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage if the saving throw fails.

    Share Spells: At the paladinís option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her mount.
    The mount must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the mount if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the mount again even if it returns to the paladin before the duration expires. Additionally, the paladin may cast a spell with a target of ďYouĒ on her mount (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A paladin and her mount can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the mountís type (magical beast).

    Share Saving Throws: For each of its saving throws, the mount uses its own base save bonus or the paladinís, whichever is higher. The mount applies its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesnít share any other bonuses on saves that the master might have.
    Improved Speed (Ex): The mountís speed increases by 10 feet.

    Command (Sp): Once per day per two paladin levels of its master, a mount can use this ability to command other any normal animal of approximately the same kind as itself (for warhorses and warponies, this category includes donkeys, mules, and ponies), as long as the target creature has fewer Hit Dice than the mount. This ability functions like the command spell, but the mount must make a DC 21 Concentration check to succeed if itís being ridden at the time. If the check fails, the ability does not work that time, but it still counts against the mountís daily uses. Each target may attempt a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 paladinís level + paladinís Cha modifier) to negate the effect.

    Spell Resistance (Ex): A mountís spell resistance equals its masterís paladin level + 5. To affect the mount with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the mountís spell resistance.
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-07-26 at 12:02 PM.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Changelog from Vanilla Paladin

    Champions of Valor:
    Smite evil is the Mystic Fire Knight'2 (5th + 6th substitution levels) Smite evil, that is also where Spellshatter comes from.

    Wary Swordknight (6th Substitution level) gives us the ridiculous Haste 1/day.

    Defenders of the Faith allows for a Griffon mount, i took the prerequisit level for it down a bit

    Planar Handbook has Planar Paladin, which at 6th level gives your mount the Celestial template, which is worse then the Half Celestial Template.

    the division of spellcasting between Cha and Str is because its simply too easy to make Charisma too good without doing so.

    Casterlevel boost because it really helps buff duration

    Inherent Battle Blessing: There should be no such thing as feat tax

    Inherent Divine Metamagic: Persist at -4 SLA: DMM: Persist is nice, paladins dont get alot of offensive spells and are rather poor for feats, buff duration, and Turn Undead charges. so i made a version of one of the craziest skills for a weak class.

    Code: A bit too loose, but i feel if you want a Superman or Robinhood paladin, the code shouldnt be super crippling.

    Bonus Feats: Paladins have 3 separate things to split their feats among. 5 more feats isnt alot outside of the Ubercharger, and that is a whole other can of worms.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Please take a look at the 1st level spells per day, it seems, well off to me.
    "I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every moment of it" - Edgar Allen Poe


  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by masterstalker2 View Post
    Please take a look at the 1st level spells per day, it seems, well off to me.
    it isnt. the reason you get haste is you trade out a use of Remove disease and your first 1st level spell slot for it. This class uses minimal homebrew, as i said.

    Removed the wasted Smite clause and the Melee only clause on smite evil, forgot to do so beforehand.
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-07-18 at 09:40 AM.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2008

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Too good? I've got limited experience working with Homebrews, but those extra feats and all those first levels abilities tell me it may be a bit on the overpowered side. I think you should rethink the linearity of this class more carefully and adopt a slightly more aggressive stance at it to shave off the extra goodness. My standpoint is when quickly comparing it to the fighter class, we're not talking about a core class anymore.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame_Excess View Post
    Too good? I've got limited experience working with Homebrews, but those extra feats and all those first levels abilities tell me it may be a bit on the overpowered side. I think you should rethink the linearity of this class more carefully and adopt a slightly more aggressive stance at it to shave off the extra goodness. My standpoint is when quickly comparing it to the fighter class, we're not talking about a core class anymore.
    the Fighter comparison stopped working for me once i understood that a Paladin has 3 separate things to spend their feats on, where as a Fighter only has 1-2. basically, look at it this way: a Fighter gets 18 feats with which to master one type of Physical combat. A Paladin must keep their mount relevant, must keep themselves relevant, and keep their spellcasting relevant. Yes, this is a much better Paladin, This is a Paladin made using a total of one piece of homebrew, a few tweeks, and the rest is all stuff you can get as a paladin. This is not my personal choice of paladin, that is instead found in this Thread of mine. This was closer to a TO excersize


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    A Paladin must keep their mount relevant,
    Yeah, he must invest skill points in ride.

    must keep themselves relevant,
    He just have to take Mounted Combat and all that follow.

    and keep their spellcasting relevant.
    Except for Practiced Spellcaster, I admit I don't understand this one. Maybe with Divine Metamagic and the like, but this is not core. There are a few interesting divine feats, however.

    With seven feats, his selection of feats will probably not vary a lot from one to the other, while the fighter is a more flexible class. Did you intend to make the paladin flexible?
    Last edited by Network; 2012-07-18 at 09:27 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Yeah, he must invest skill points in ride.

    He just have to take Mounted Combat and all that follow.

    Except for Practiced Spellcaster, I admit I don't understand this one. Maybe with Divine Metamagic and the like, but this is not core. There are a few interesting divine feats, however.

    With seven feats, his selection of feats will probably not vary a lot from one to the other, while the fighter is a more flexible class. Did you intend to make the paladin flexible?
    Flexible within limit. As core, Paladins are basically useless off of their mount without going into Mystic Fire Knight, grabbing divine spirit from Dungeonscape, and taking Vow of Poverty. As far as i know, i eliminated all spellcasting requirements of paladin, so i am willing to remove the second and fourth bonus feats

    One of the significant problems with paladin is that the Horse, is a horse, and thus not worth climbing off of in combat because it has nothing to contribute without a warrior on top of it. The Paladin shouldnt HAVE to go Ubercharger to be awesome, but they do.

    A griffon inherently has Pounce and Rake, both powerful features, in addition to the Half celestial template giving Smite evil, numerous resistances, and spell like abilities.
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-07-18 at 10:18 PM.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    But they have a good BAB and the most powerful skill in their list.

    This skill is, of course, the only thing that can beat someone with a 21th level cleric as a cohort, an army of Ice Assassins, or Pun-Pun, so I don't argue against them.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    But they have a good BAB and the most powerful skill in their list.

    This skill is, of course, the only thing that can beat someone with a 21th level cleric as a cohort, an army of Ice Assassins, or Pun-Pun, so I don't argue against them.
    I doubt Spellshatter is that powerful, considering that a Sorcerer can do the same thing 2+ more times per day, and a Mystic Fire Knight can do it one additional time per day

    unless you mean something else. like Persisted Haste on the paladin and mount

    edit: Considering adding the Ruby Rose Knight's Enduring Personality charisma guard in inplace of Divine Health

    Edit Edit: i would add a Blackguard/Negadin blend, but i dont know how to get that one right atm
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-07-20 at 12:08 AM.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Milo v3's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Firstly, Chaotic Good Paladins.
    2. I don't exactly understand the fluff behind the effects of Smite Evil stopping spells. It would really help in combat against squishy wizards though so its fine for my setting.
    3. I think every gish of fighter/spellcaster should get Battle Blessing. It would stop them from lagging behind as much.
    4. Griffin Mounts are awesome, but I don't remember any Medium Griffins.
    5. Haste is a good gift, but wont change the tide in battle, so its rather fair.
    6. I think granting the griffin Half-Celestial one level after gaining it as a mount is a bit soon. I suggest you move it to 8th level, that way players have to earn the Half-Celestial griffin and it fills the Dead Level.
    7. Same Flavour concern as Smite Evil in regards to Spellshattering.
    8. I like the change in the Code of Conduct, it is much less restrictive.
    9. I think its interesting that the Paladins gain a specific Afterlife as a reward for its efforts.
    Currently Holds the Title of "Earl of Innocence"

    My Homebrew (200+) Not up to date

    Previous Avatar
    Spoiler
    Show

    By Aruius.


    The List:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Post Number: 15
    1. Aedilred
    2. Arcanist
    3. Chen
    4. Glass Mouse
    5. rogueboy
    6. Serpentine
    7. Morgarion
    8. JustSomeGuy
    9. AtlanteanTroll
    10. Amidus Drexel
    11. Coidzor


  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    Firstly, Chaotic Good Paladins.
    2. I don't exactly understand the fluff behind the effects of Smite Evil stopping spells. It would really help in combat against squishy wizards though so its fine for my setting.
    3. I think every gish of fighter/spellcaster should get Battle Blessing. It would stop them from lagging behind as much.
    4. Griffin Mounts are awesome, but I don't remember any Medium Griffins.
    5. Haste is a good gift, but wont change the tide in battle, so its rather fair.
    6. I think granting the griffin Half-Celestial one level after gaining it as a mount is a bit soon. I suggest you move it to 8th level, that way players have to earn the Half-Celestial griffin and it fills the Dead Level.
    7. Same Flavour concern as Smite Evil in regards to Spellshattering.
    8. I like the change in the Code of Conduct, it is much less restrictive.
    9. I think its interesting that the Paladins gain a specific Afterlife as a reward for its efforts.
    1: Yep
    2+7: Paladins feel that power corrupts, and so they learn ways to stop it.
    3: it could help a few gish classes, but not ranger.
    4: Just apply the normal change in size -1 effects to the griffon, other then -4 str. A paladin should have an Epic mount, and an Epic mount is a Griffon or Dragon, not a horse. well, besides for this paladin, but he doesnt count.
    5: Well, it isnt 3rd ed haste
    6: i see your point, ill do that. It was originally there because the Planar paladin gets Celestial Mount at that level.
    8: I feel the first rule of being a Paladin should be to Do what is Right, then Do what is Honorable. If you are facing the evil empire, start a rebellion, even if you are LG.
    Warning: This section of the reply contains minor religious references.
    Spoiler
    Show
    9: Paladins get their own afterlife because death isnt a reason to stop fighting evil. I had a few ideas for it, such as there are 3 paladin gods, The Templar, the Austeer, and the Hope.
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-07-27 at 09:46 PM.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Xefas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    So, I wanna do that thread where we haggle peaches, or whatever, and I saw this thread linked, and I like Paladins, so I thought I'd have a go.

    But, I'm finding it hard to think of any meaningful critique to give without knowing your design goals. I mean, I can tell you what I think about the class in relation to what I like in a Paladin, but that doesn't really help you perfect what you like about Paladins.

    For example, for the vast majority of base class concepts, I dislike the special mount/familiar/animal companion/whatever thing. That's the kind of thing I wish was the sole purview of feats (Leadership, Draconic Leadership, Undead Leadership, Wild Cohort, Attain Familiar, etc). Because, honestly? I think smiting evil is something that can reasonably be expected to be a core ability that all Paladins will have some proficiency in. But should all Paladins have a Griffon?

    That's the kind of special niche tweak to a character concept that I think should be the purview of feats (and I think is much better than the "+1 to passive thing!" that most feats are).

    But, I dunno - maybe you want all Paladins to have Griffons. Who am I to disagree with that if it's a specific design goal of yours? So, maybe a few words on what your vision is could help me be more helpful.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    So, I wanna do that thread where we haggle peaches, or whatever, and I saw this thread linked, and I like Paladins, so I thought I'd have a go.

    But, I'm finding it hard to think of any meaningful critique to give without knowing your design goals. I mean, I can tell you what I think about the class in relation to what I like in a Paladin, but that doesn't really help you perfect what you like about Paladins.

    For example, for the vast majority of base class concepts, I dislike the special mount/familiar/animal companion/whatever thing. That's the kind of thing I wish was the sole purview of feats (Leadership, Draconic Leadership, Undead Leadership, Wild Cohort, Attain Familiar, etc). Because, honestly? I think smiting evil is something that can reasonably be expected to be a core ability that all Paladins will have some proficiency in. But should all Paladins have a Griffon?

    That's the kind of special niche tweak to a character concept that I think should be the purview of feats (and I think is much better than the "+1 to passive thing!" that most feats are).

    But, I dunno - maybe you want all Paladins to have Griffons. Who am I to disagree with that if it's a specific design goal of yours? So, maybe a few words on what your vision is could help me be more helpful.
    The design goal was to bring Paladin upto speed (mid T3) with other classes. This thread being linked here has superceeded this one as the primary paladin brew of mine. (there are 5, i dont link to one of them)

    This was moreso a build of paladin to primarily not use Homebrew. For instance, i dont actually add Measure of Conviction in this, while my other 4 brews have it. This is also the last one where i dont include Divine Spirit as a core option. If a paladin wants a mount, they should inherently get a Gryphon as a mount. Because a Gryphon is the paladin mount.

    Typically it is advised to read through the commentary in a topic before hand if it isnt a pages long conversation.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Xefas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    The design goal was to bring Paladin upto speed (mid T3) with other classes. This thread being linked here has superceeded this one as the primary paladin brew of mine. (there are 5, i dont link to one of them)
    Right, I think this is a situation of: someone necro'd the peach trading thread, I saw it, I thought "Damn! That's a good idea. Why've I never seen it before? I should do that!", without actually looking at the posting dates first to see if it had be called back from the grave, and then used an old link to get to this old brew. Sorry about that.

    Typically it is advised to read through the commentary in a topic before hand if it isnt a pages long conversation.
    I did. I was using the Griffin thing as an example, not as an actual critique.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Right, I think this is a situation of: someone necro'd the peach trading thread, I saw it, I thought "Damn! That's a good idea. Why've I never seen it before? I should do that!", without actually looking at the posting dates first to see if it had be called back from the grave, and then used an old link to get to this old brew. Sorry about that.



    I did. I was using the Griffin thing as an example, not as an actual critique.
    1: that thread should never have died.

    2: The griffon is a balance of motivations: Paladins are not Lance/Cavalry-Knights, they are Knights-Errant. They need a reliable mount, not a liability. The level is when Flight becomes important. Classes dont scale 1 HD=1 CR, expecially less well scaling things like Paladin Mount, which badly affect the CR of the creature under normal circumstances. A griffon looks and is more appropriate to a paladin then a horse.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Xefas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by toapat View Post
    1: that thread should never have died.
    Yeah.

    2: The griffon is a balance of motivations: Paladins are not Lance/Cavalry-Knights, they are Knights-Errant. They need a reliable mount, not a liability. The level is when Flight becomes important. Classes dont scale 1 HD=1 CR, expecially less well scaling things like Paladin Mount, which badly affect the CR of the creature under normal circumstances. A griffon looks and is more appropriate to a paladin then a horse.
    I wasn't saying it wasn't appropriate to a Paladin, I was just saying that it would personally make me, and not necessarily anyone else, happier if secondary characters were the purview of feats. I don't care one way or another about Gryphons vs Horses.

    I like Gryphons, I like Horses. Although, in defense of the horse, Exalted manages to have horse-riding god-slaying badasses just fine. I don't see why D&D couldn't, given the right mechanics.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    toapat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: The Paladin [3.5][Peach][semi-brew]

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Exalted manages to have horse-riding god-slaying badasses just fine. I don't see why D&D couldn't, given the right mechanics.
    Thing is, the paladin is a different concept behind the class then what you are talking about here. Part of the paladin class is an inherent concept of being able to help at any time and help any one. Gryphon is chosen because it itself is a more versatile mount then a horse ever would be, as well as the fact that it is more grandiose then a horse would ever be.

    I Need to go build a Knight rebuild to counterbalance this*. probably will throw in some Jedi Soulknife for other things.

    *Well, not this paladin, this is an old outdated one as compared to the one i linked in reply to your first comment
    Last edited by toapat; 2012-11-22 at 02:27 AM.


    My Homebrew: found here.
    When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes

    PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.

    I use Red when I'm angry, I use blue when I'm excited.
    Drow avatar @ myself

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •