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  1. - Top - End - #391
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    ...Would this hypothetical game accept newbies?
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.

  2. - Top - End - #392
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Considering it's blending three homebrew systems, if it didn't accept newbies it wouldn't have any players.

  3. - Top - End - #393
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by SiderealDreams View Post
    Take a family that comes from "Old Money" and now make the Lucifuge as an organization come from "Really Old Money". The Lucifuge herself is ancient. I would suspect that she and other old members of the conspiracy have used their considerable time to finance their group.
    I suppose the idea that one or two Children are billionaires or Lucifuge put a penny in a couple of banks when she turned 100 make sense.
    Honestly the only thing, apart from "They just have it" obviously, I could come up with was a chained up greed demon "Asked" to give them a million bucks once in a while.

  4. - Top - End - #394

    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Opperhapsen View Post
    I suppose the idea that one or two Children are billionaires or Lucifuge put a penny in a couple of banks when she turned 100 make sense.
    Honestly the only thing, apart from "They just have it" obviously, I could come up with was a chained up greed demon "Asked" to give them a million bucks once in a while.
    100? The Lucifuge is possibly thousands of years old. Do you think if she had such a mono-focused obsession with keeping the Conspiracy alive and functional that she would...I don't know, give any thought and effort towards maintaining some sort of material wealth to achieve that end?
    Last edited by SiderealDreams; 2012-11-20 at 02:14 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiryuu View Post
    S'why I wanted to link it to power use. I want people to have to think hrd about the decision "do I take the easy way out and reveal The Hulk or do I clench my teeth and try to be Bruce for a little longer?" That way Disquiet isn't at the whim of fickle dice but is still an inevitability, and you have the potential for that one really mentally resistant human to be sad to watch them go while the piano music plays.

    Maybe you could suffer Disquiet to get back a smidgen of Pyros or stave off the Wasteland. The longer you stay, the more you can choose to either affect the landscape or the people, but at some point, you still have to move on because either one of them has gone crazy.
    I wasn't really criticizing your idea; the reply was to Yuki Akuma and Water Bear. Your idea is similar to what I'd do if I were making changes. One comment I do have is that Disquiet and the Wasteland ultimately have the same source, so the Promethean getting to pick one or the other to cause doesn't really make sense. Maybe tie the use of Pyros to both the rate of Wasteland expansion and increased Disquiet for any witnesses. Disquiet might still build up even when the Promethean isn't actively using Transmutations, but unless the Promethean does something to "justify" the hatred in the minds of the Disquiet victims, it would stay fairly low, probably not progressing past the first or second stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    You don't need to manufacture conflict; the WoD is a ****ty enough place as it is that there really isn't a reason for it. If you want the Prometheans to be outcasts, you've really got to give them traits which give them a logical reason for being cast out.

    Take Frankenstein's Monster in Frankenstein; he was smarter, stronger, and had a force of will much greater than any mortal man, but he also looked like a bunch of dead bodies sown together. He was hated and feared because humans were too small-minded to see past his monstrous appearance to the man beneath. That is literally 1/2 of the entire theme of the book. So why are Prometheans only ugly part of the time? Make them really look like monsters, they won't need Disquiet to be outcasts.
    But Adam didn't have superpowers. He was just big and ugly. That's sort of a key point. Even if you say our attitudes towards obviously deformed or just plain unattractive people haven't changed since the early 1800s, which is a bit of a stretch even in the World of Darkness, people are willing to excuse a lot of ugly if it comes with money or power. You'll probably have some anti-Promethean groups anyway, because there are anti-anything groups. But there will be just as many people who look at the hideous dude shooting lightning out of his ass to fight something that looks like it came out of a Silent Hill game and think "superhero."

    (Of course that means ditching the Galateans, but seriously screw Galateans. Just because it's a "mature" game doesn't mean you need every game-line to have a "sexy" bloodline; vampires and changelings, okay I can see it, but do we really need sexy Frankenstein's Monsters? What does that accomplish?)
    Other people have already addressed this. I personally feel Ulgans are the least necessary X-splat, but Galateids don't really appeal much to me either. Still, having the option for them is nice.

    Another thing they could do is the old standby "Instant Persecution Just Add Military." Have Task Force Valkyrie or the Chiron Corporation or the Seers of the Throne or some new group or all of them put together hunting the Prometheans. In our modern society, an organization with enough money and willpower can eventually find anyone anywhere unless they work to stay off the grid. There's no need for Wasteland when a watchlist does the same thing but less stupidly.
    Ugh. I hate the old "evil military" trope. It was run into the ground a long long time ago. (Also VALKYRIE isn't military last time I checked and Chiron isn't a government group at all, but details.) Just once I'd like to see a shadowy government organization that actually has the best interests of the country's citizens at heart.

    For that matter, if Prometheans aren't causing any problems other than being really ugly, why would Task Force VALKYRIE give a damn about them? The Chiron Group might still go after them, because Chiron is totally, ludicrously evil, but one decently sized group is not going to have eyes everywhere. What's stopping Prometheans in this setting from doing what Frankenstein's monster intended to: just leaving civilization in favor of a shack in the wilderness somewhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Soo....

    Some scientists (Geniuses) poke around an ancient seal on the moon that they really shouldn't have been and inadvertently release the Queens (from Princess). The arcane backlash from the release of the seal awakens the ancient blood in certain humans, who begin to change in dramatic ways (Leviathan).
    Does this hypothetical game end with Sailor Dagon fighting the resurrected Ancient One that cursed humans with mortality and punishing him in the name of Kingu?

    ...I know you guys intend for the crossover to include Leviathans and Princesses as separate characters, but reading this conversation has given me a mental image of the Creature From the Black Lagoon posing in a Japanese schoolgirl uniform. I can't shake it, so I figured I'd do the next best thing and share it with all of you.
    Last edited by CN the Logos; 2012-11-20 at 04:27 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #396
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by SiderealDreams View Post
    100? The Lucifuge is possibly thousands of years old. Do you think if she had such a mono-focused obsession with keeping the Conspiracy alive and functional that she would...I don't know, give any thought and effort towards maintaining some sort of material wealth to achieve that end?
    She's a 1,200 year old lady.
    In my hypothetical scenarios she put "A penny in a couple of banks", accruing interest for 1,100 years. 'tis a joke.

  7. - Top - End - #397

    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Opperhapsen View Post
    She's a 1,200 year old lady.
    In my hypothetical scenarios she put "A penny in a couple of banks", accruing interest for 1,100 years. 'tis a joke.
    It's actually not sure how old she is. The book(I don't remember the name offhand) that extends the life of Lucifuge members speculates that she could be VERY old beyond 1,200 years. I know it was a joke but what I was saying is you have utilize some common sense.
    Last edited by SiderealDreams; 2012-11-20 at 02:36 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiderealDreams View Post
    It's actually not sure how old she is. The book(I don't remember the name offhand) that extends the life of Lucifuge members speculates that she could be VERY old beyond 1,200 years. I know it was a joke but what I was saying is you have utilize some common sense.
    I have to utilize what now? I'm a player, I don't even know what this "Khomorn Seance" is.
    I'm just wondering how the Lucifuge has accrued money to rival an international drug enterprise.
    I guess I'll settle for "They're rich Europeans".

    You're talking of Compacts & Conspiracies, by the way, the silliest nWoD book ever written.

  9. - Top - End - #399

    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Opperhapsen View Post
    I have to utilize what now? I'm a player, I don't even know what this "Khomorn Seance" is.
    I'm just wondering how the Lucifuge has accrued money to rival an international drug enterprise.
    I guess I'll settle for "They're rich Europeans".

    You're talking of Compacts & Conspiracies, by the way, the silliest nWoD book ever written.
    My guess is that it involves investing in Hostess. Also is silly subjective or objective? I always forget that one.

  10. - Top - End - #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiderealDreams View Post
    My guess is that it involves investing in Hostess. Also is silly subjective or objective? I always forget that one.
    I always knew Ding Dongs had some connection to Satan!

    I think we can both agree things become silly when you give amateur photographers nuclear weapons and the smallpox virus.
    Last edited by Opperhapsen; 2012-11-20 at 04:31 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #401
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    I wasn't really criticizing your idea; the reply was to Yuki Akuma and Water Bear. Your idea is similar to what I'd do if I were making changes. One comment I do have is that Disquiet and the Wasteland ultimately have the same source, so the Promethean getting to pick one or the other to cause doesn't really make sense. Maybe tie the use of Pyros to both the rate of Wasteland expansion and increased Disquiet for any witnesses. Disquiet might still build up even when the Promethean isn't actively using Transmutations, but unless the Promethean does something to "justify" the hatred in the minds of the Disquiet victims, it would stay fairly low, probably not progressing past the first or second stage.
    Oh, I know. Sorry if I sounded like I was responding to crits, I just wanted to expanded on the idea a little more and used you as a springboard.

    Anyway, you're right. I just like the idea of "choose between your devils." I also like the expenditure idea because it means the more human they act and the more human ways in which they solve problems, the more human they get to seem, and it fits right into the theme.

  12. - Top - End - #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    Does this hypothetical game end with Sailor Dagon fighting the resurrected Ancient One that cursed humans with mortality and punishing him in the name of Kingu?
    I don't know, but I hope so.

    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    ...I know you guys intend for the crossover to include Leviathans and Princesses as separate characters, but reading this conversation has given me a mental image of the Creature From the Black Lagoon posing in a Japanese schoolgirl uniform. I can't shake it, so I figured I'd do the next best thing and share it with all of you.
    I'm not gonna lie, that actually made me giggle at the absurdity. I'd sketch it, but I'm a terrible artist. Do we have any good artists in the thread who would be willing to draw this thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    They're just there, and horribly fatal when one stumbles across them, like self-aware landmines.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    I could use some advice on a PC for the VtR, Dark Ages game my wife is about to start. We have 50 XP (beyond creation) to start.

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    The character is a Knight Templar, prior to their fall. He's about 80 years old, but looks mid-30s. If my wife will let me fluff it this way, he is part of a sub-order of Knights who are all Kindred. The Bron bloodline is a perfect fit since they are Grail hunters, and the Knights were supposedly either looking for or guardians of the Grail.

    Sir Nicholas de Molay
    Ventrue / Bron bloodline (Bloodlines the Legendary, page 10)
    I have not decided on covenant yet. Lance makes the most sense, but I'm not sure if that's how I want to play him.

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    Str and Dex 3, Stam 1
    Presence 2, Manip 1, Resolve 3

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    Medicine 3
    Occult 3 (Spec: Holy Grail)
    Politics 1

    Athletics 3 (Spec: Archery)
    Brawl 2
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    Intimidation 2
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    Contacts (Templars) 1
    Trained Observer 3
    Well Traveled 1

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    Resilience 3
    Crochan (Bloodline Discipline) 2


    City status and Retainer are barred at creation, though we can pick them up later if we wish. All PCs are assumed to have the "Common Sense" Merit, even if it isn't on the sheet. The city is a Crone city, though there are only 3 Kindred already there when we arrive.

    Is there anything that anyone can think of that would work with this concept? (I only have 1 XP unspent, so adding something new would mean removing something I have.)
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  14. - Top - End - #404
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leliel View Post
    Since no one seems to have answered this:

    From what we know of Mummy: The Curse, you play as either one of the periodically-reviving nobility of the pre-Egyptian Nameless Empire of Irem (Irem was the capital, by the way), or a member of the cults they set up during periods of activity. Uniquely, Mummies start at Power Stat 10, and slowly lose dots as the Sekhem (essentially non-Supernal magic, its older than that) that keeps the Arisen awake runs out until they hit zero and go back to sleep again. There's also a group of hunters who want that Sekhem, mysterious monsters who aren't pleased with the Arisen cheating death over and over again, and the fact that Mummy morality is exactly what you'd expect from entitled noblemen from an age where "death by barbarian" was a quite real possibility.
    That sounds really damn cool actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    (Of course that means ditching the Galateans, but seriously screw Galateans. Just because it's a "mature" game doesn't mean you need every game-line to have a "sexy" bloodline; vampires and changelings, okay I can see it, but do we really need sexy Frankenstein's Monsters? What does that accomplish?)
    Disquieting Japanese sex doll plot lines?

    Quote Originally Posted by SiderealDreams View Post
    100? The Lucifuge is possibly thousands of years old. Do you think if she had such a mono-focused obsession with keeping the Conspiracy alive and functional that she would...I don't know, give any thought and effort towards maintaining some sort of material wealth to achieve that end?
    Think it through; that's the point.
    Luci turns 100, starts a bank account.
    Luci turns 130, invests in some ventures, becomes a backer for Norman royalty.
    Luci eventually also gets into political funding, making bank from Spanish conquest, say, before wisely investing capital in colonies around the world.

    If chica is 1200, it's silly to discount something based around her first century. It establishes a pattern more than it stands as the end-all be-all explanation you're required to extrapolate, although the lines along which to do so are relatively clear-cut.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    That sounds really damn cool actually.



    Disquieting Japanese sex doll plot lines?



    Think it through; that's the point.
    Luci turns 100, starts a bank account.
    Luci turns 130, invests in some ventures, becomes a backer for Norman royalty.
    Luci eventually also gets into political funding, making bank from Spanish conquest, say, before wisely investing capital in colonies around the world.

    If chica is 1200, it's silly to discount something based around her first century. It establishes a pattern more than it stands as the end-all be-all explanation you're required to extrapolate, although the lines along which to do so are relatively clear-cut.
    Now if they'd just release said cool sounding material. I didn't miss the point btw. But you do realize that she was just making that up right? Nobody was discounting a thing. Were having a bit of tongue of cheek moments thinking over how the conspiracy has cash.
    Last edited by SiderealDreams; 2012-11-20 at 04:00 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #406
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Say, does anyone here have experience with using Hunters as antagonists in games of other splats? If so, how did you handle Tactics?
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Tactics used on PCs is rather mean, since many don't allow a defense (controlled immolation is a real killer)

    If I use Hunters I usually avoid Tactics (except Moral Support, which is a great way to level the field against fear effects)

    I have deployed a team of Malleus Malificarum Hunters against two players who thought Dominate 3 was a licence to do whatever they want.

    Otherwise, I avoid using Hunters as antagonists, except when the players forget to stay subtle in the use of their powers...

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Say, does anyone here have experience with using Hunters as antagonists in games of other splats? If so, how did you handle Tactics?
    Assume success on the part of the secondary actors unless it's a contested action?
    Or just don't have them, but keep the tactics themselves.
    A vampire player tries preying on some dumb human suddenly he/she feels woozy, queue half the bar suddenly going silent and turning towards her.
    A werewolf gets shot in the face, and follows the dude who did it into another alley, then as he's halfway down the dude is suddenly gone and headlights turn on right in front of him.
    Then apply the effect of getting hit by a truck/dragged to a dark basement, with none of the extras from tactics.

  19. - Top - End - #409
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrophilios View Post
    Tactics used on PCs is rather mean, since many don't allow a defense (controlled immolation is a real killer)
    They do, however, require a few Hunters to coordinate on a single target. Which isn't easy even if a cell gets a drop on a single supernatural and gets even harder if the coterie/cabal/pack/etc. is together, which is what'll usually happen in play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Opperhapsen View Post
    Assume success on the part of the secondary actors unless it's a contested action?
    Or just don't have them, but keep the tactics themselves.
    A vampire player tries preying on some dumb human suddenly he/she feels woozy, queue half the bar suddenly going silent and turning towards her.
    A werewolf gets shot in the face, and follows the dude who did it into another alley, then as he's halfway down the dude is suddenly gone and headlights turn on right in front of him.
    Then apply the effect of getting hit by a truck/dragged to a dark basement, with none of the extras from tactics.
    This looks like a solid way to handle them.
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    So I made the mistake(?) of mentioning the existence of Princess: The Hopeful to my girlfriend, not thinking about the fact that she still has her complete Sailor Moon manga collection and is incredibly nostalgic about the genre. I have been informed that I will be running a game of Princess even if she is the only player. So, has anyone actually run or played in a game of it? Any tips on running it or advice on things I should avoid and other supplements that go well with it would be appreciated. I never got into magical girl anime, so I can't rely on my own sense of nostalgia to guide me here.
    Last edited by CN the Logos; 2012-11-21 at 09:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    So I made the mistake(?) of mentioning the existence of Princess: The Hopeful to my girlfriend, not thinking about the fact that she still has her complete Sailor Moon manga collection and is incredibly nostalgic about the genre. I have been informed that I will be running a game of Princess even if she is the only player. So, has anyone actually run or played in a game of it? Any tips on running it or advice on things I should avoid and other supplements that go well with it would be appreciated.
    I wouldn't call it a mistake; I've been reading through the wiki (not finished yet), and, while I maintain my previous position that the premise is hilarious, it does appear to be a worthwhile system, as evidenced by the fact that I'm already developing character concepts for the game.

    As for advice, sorry, can't really help you there. Wish I could, but I'm not familiar enough with the game yet to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    So I made the mistake(?) of mentioning the existence of Princess: The Hopeful to my girlfriend, not thinking about the fact that she still has her complete Sailor Moon manga collection and is incredibly nostalgic about the genre. I have been informed that I will be running a game of Princess even if she is the only player. So, has anyone actually run or played in a game of it? Any tips on running it or advice on things I should avoid and other supplements that go well with it would be appreciated. I never got into magical girl anime, so I can't rely on my own sense of nostalgia to guide me here.
    You could always start a watch list.

    (Protip: If you plan on keeping your girlfriend, then this series should not be on the list.)
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    You could always start a watch list.

    (Protip: If you plan on keeping your girlfriend, then this series should not be on the list.)
    I've heard of that series before. My girlfriend would probably enjoy it; she was playing Vampire: The Masquerade before I knew what a White Wolf was and preferred the Sabbat, specifically Lasombra, for the shadow tentacles and monster transformation. Her favorite character (or at least the one she's told me about and tried to bring back in one game using the Vampire Translation Guide that never got off the ground) was a genderqueer Lasombra who'd gotten a Tzimisce to do some work on hir, resulting in something apparently akin to a less attractive Kuja. With Obtenebration.

    I think I can get away with some darkness, is what I'm saying.

    Any other interesting examples of the genre that are relatively short (13 to 26 episodes as opposed to the couple hundred episodes of Sailor Moon) and targeted`to an older audience?

    Also, apparently the PDF version and wiki/EPUB version of Princess have some mechanical differences due to the creators having different ideas about what they wanted to do. Anyone know what those differences are? I like having a PDF, so if that version's good it's probably what I'll go with, but if there's a clear difference in quality I'd like to go with the better version.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    You could always start a watch list.

    (Protip: If you plan on keeping your girlfriend, then this series should not be on the list.)
    Don't mention any of the Magical Girl hentai either.... especially that guro one (forgot the name of it exactly)
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    Also, apparently the PDF version and wiki/EPUB version of Princess have some mechanical differences due to the creators having different ideas about what they wanted to do. Anyone know what those differences are? I like having a PDF, so if that version's good it's probably what I'll go with, but if there's a clear difference in quality I'd like to go with the better version.
    Go with the wiki. It's more complete than the PDF.

    Also, the PDF and wiki/EPUB are the same game, except the PDF's a bit out-of-date and has some formatting issues. The actual different version is somewhere else, I think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Would a vampire Elder generalist be able to effectively compete with peers who are moderately or heavily optimized to one particular theme or another? I don't have any experience w/high XP vampires, but just as a first impression, it seems that the usual low vs. high optimization character problems would be exacerbated in high-level games, virtually to the point of unsurvivability.
    Last edited by Cirrylius; 2012-11-22 at 04:46 PM.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Since you mentioned Elder, that probably means OWoD, where the answer is very much no. Elder Power scale asymptotically in terms of the broken stuff they're capable of.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    OWoD
    Sorry, no, I should have specified NWoD.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    Sorry, no, I should have specified NWoD.
    There's no real distinction for 'Elders' in NWoD, but it's not a whole lot different. Having more XP just means you can afford to specialize in more things at once.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    NWoD elders will be less unassailable. A character with 50xp, and one with 250xp can both be very deadly, and could both kill each other with a good plan. A guy with Str 4, Dex 4, Claws of the Beast, Brawl 5, Kung Fu 4 can be built in 50xp, and will basically one-hit eviscerate even a very defensive build. Adding 200 more Xp doesn't really up the lethality much.
    Last edited by Selrahc; 2012-11-22 at 07:30 PM.
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