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  1. - Top - End - #511
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Is there anyone here who would at least be willing to consider STing a request? This one has gotten a fair number of players interested, but so far no-one has shown any interest in running it...

  2. - Top - End - #512
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by RPGuru1331 View Post
    If it happens in the 'real world' as a repeatable phenomena, it's a natural law.
    Volley ball, video games and differing opinions are natural laws? Science can use these to divine the workings of the universe? Try again.

    Talk to an actual scientist at some point, seriously.
    I do actually. He was last chastising me for mistaking weak nuclear force for being an operable component of Forces 3, when it's not really a factor of inertia as such at all. But sure! I'm always one for a challenge. I'll bring it up when I can.

    Just because WW doesn't know how the premise operates doesn't mean it operates like they think it does. Within the confines of the nWoD, Fae Contracts are as much a part of natural law as gravity.
    "just because they made the system and the world in it doesn't mean their statements hold weight because I have semantic opinions"? Really? Sure.

    Learn how science works. Or just keep declaring points for yourself based on incomplete understanding, it doesn't make a difference to me.
    Science as you know it has no bearing on literary points which aren't rooted in science. And everything you've been declaring science has been pedantry and sophistry. Science is the Intellectual and practical Activity encompassing the systematic Study of the structure and behavior of the practical and natural world through observation and experimentation. It is also the body of knowledge achieved thereby.

    Scientific application within the setting points to Fae contracts not being natural phenomena; despite the mechanics always manifesting in the end in a similar fashion within the confines of dice, each contract is personal, and an explicit exception to the laws of nature. Using the meta level understanding of, say, all two dots contracts of mirror granting the same +3 bonus as justification for contracts being natural laws (which is dumb anyway; they are systemic functions enacted by use of laws, except they are laws which can be, unlike natural laws as science understands and defines them, broken) is functionally the same as saying guns, knives and matches are all the same because they all inflict 1L damage when you're grazed.

    Seriously. The defining points of the universe say "this is supernatural". Decrying them as wrong because that doesn't match reality – along with, according to your own belief, vampires, werewolves, fae and wizards – is hypocritical to the point of absurdity. "I don't consider them supernatural because of questions inherent to te definition of supernatural" is a valid opinion, sure. It's not fact though.

    I'll get right on that, right after you prove there isn't a teapot orbiting the earth that is too small for our current telescopes to pick up.
    False equivalency. I'm not declaring the existence of such a teapot vociferously as though it were fact and you were dumb to doubt me.

    There's no evidence for leprechauns, unicorns, vampires, mages, werewolves, or anything else generally referred to as 'supernatural' RL, so there's no reason to believe they exist.
    *shrug* I don't discuss religion on the forum. But you'll note that unlike all these examples, the flat earth has conclusive proof one way, instead of just an absence of proof for the opposite.
    Last edited by SiuiS; 2012-12-16 at 10:26 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #513
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    FYI: The Kickstarter for the Deluxe Edition of Mummy: The Curse is now live. The game itself is hopefully soon to follow. :)
    Avatar courtesy of Szilard

  4. - Top - End - #514
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Ah, I see. Thanks just the same for the link!
    Asok: Shouldn't we actually be working?
    And then Asok was thrown out of the car.

  5. - Top - End - #515
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by JMobius View Post
    The game itself is hopefully soon to follow. :)
    The Kickstarter says it'll still be a few months after the closing. With the generally portentous events that have followed this project, I expect that the campaign closing will be followed by a single backer-only update reading "IT IS DONE 3-13-13," and then the Onyx Path website will be completely replaced with a countdown timer. We were fools to give them our money, fools to buy into their promises of a game where you become immortal and all-powerful, fools to believe that we would still be of any use to them once their project was complete...
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.

  6. - Top - End - #516
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    It will be a few months for the deluxe copies. PDF and POD versions will be available well before then.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    I have a question World of Darkness related.
    Or, more specifically, vampire related.

    How do you people run your games without making them at worst, incredibly bleak? My problem is that the source material seems to lend itself very well to Bleak: The Angstening, which is difficult to play for long.

    And where could I go or read or scoop around to discover good ideas for plots and tales?

  8. - Top - End - #518
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fibinachi View Post
    I have a question World of Darkness related.
    Or, more specifically, vampire related.

    How do you people run your games without making them at worst, incredibly bleak? My problem is that the source material seems to lend itself very well to Bleak: The Angstening, which is difficult to play for long.

    And where could I go or read or scoop around to discover good ideas for plots and tales?
    Its whats the game is meant to be about. Your a monster, either fighting a slowly losing battle to keep hold of your humanity, or you gave up an embraced the beast long ago.

    If you want to remove that, custom roads help. Allow your players to come up with their own based on their character concept so you don't have to worry too much about degeneration. Apart from that, just change the Camarilla's attitude. Make the infighting less resource consuming, and have vampire elders and princes be genuinely interested in developing their domains social and economically. You can have it as a mark as status, or it could just mean they can better finance your longterm plans. Not sure how much of the angst you want to remove. Is that enough?
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

  9. - Top - End - #519
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fibinachi View Post
    I have a question World of Darkness related.
    Or, more specifically, vampire related.

    How do you people run your games without making them at worst, incredibly bleak? My problem is that the source material seems to lend itself very well to Bleak: The Angstening, which is difficult to play for long.

    And where could I go or read or scoop around to discover good ideas for plots and tales?
    New or Old?

    Old Vamp...the bleak angst is pretty much most of the point in the game's theme and the entire metaplot, so it's more work there.
    New Vamp, being more sandboxy, has a lot more freedom for de-angstification, but can be more work without a setting to build from.

  10. - Top - End - #520
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fibinachi View Post
    How do you people run your games without making them at worst, incredibly bleak?
    First things first... lose the "I am soulless I feel nothing" fluff. Let 'em enjoy themselves when they're not infighting or suffering Humanity Degeneration. Nobody wants to play Louis (forever). Let 'em feel like Lestat.

  11. - Top - End - #521
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    First things first... lose the "I am soulless I feel nothing" fluff. Let 'em enjoy themselves when they're not infighting or suffering Humanity Degeneration. Nobody wants to play Louis (forever). Let 'em feel like Lestat.
    *Raises eyebrow, and cocks head inquisitively*

    Might you elaborate on that, please? I've been considering which book to get next, and that sounds like it could be something that I wouldn't particularly enjoy having to deal with, so it would be good to know more about what you mean.

  12. - Top - End - #522
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fibinachi View Post
    How do you people run your games without making them at worst, incredibly bleak?
    We don't. The World of Darkness is supposed to be bleak.
    My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
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  13. - Top - End - #523
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    We don't. The World of Darkness is supposed to be bleak.
    Good for you. Fortunately gaming groups can think, and therefor alter games to better fit the experience they are after. Its not as if "being bleak" is the only thing WoD has to offer.
    "It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
    You'll never get out of life alive,
    So please kill yourself and save this land,
    And your last mission is to spread my command,"

    Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    *Raises eyebrow, and cocks head inquisitively*

    Might you elaborate on that, please? I've been considering which book to get next, and that sounds like it could be something that I wouldn't particularly enjoy having to deal with, so it would be good to know more about what you mean.
    Vampires, because of the state of their souls (dead), are unable to truly feel emotions. At best, they can feel echoes of the emotions they once felt while alive. A vampire might see a girl he had a crush on, or someone that reminds her of the husband who died decades ago, and feel some pang of "love," but it is only an echo of the love that vampire felt while alive. They are static creatures, unable to experience new emotions, just as they are principally unable to change their bodies. The exceptions are rage and fear, because the Beast gives them these. That is why the Dead Julii made a deal with the Strix to gain the Beast, that all Kindred might have some motivation in their eternal Requiems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    We don't. The World of Darkness is supposed to be bleak.
    Don't tell the Sin-Eaters that.
    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    They're just there, and horribly fatal when one stumbles across them, like self-aware landmines.

  15. - Top - End - #525
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    We don't. The World of Darkness is supposed to be bleak.
    Whatya mean "we"?

    Horror's easier with a patch of light in there, because its easy to get jaded otherwise. Its not even my thing and I know that!
    Asok: Shouldn't we actually be working?
    And then Asok was thrown out of the car.

  16. - Top - End - #526
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Vampires, because of the state of their souls (dead), are unable to truly feel emotions. At best, they can feel echoes of the emotions they once felt while alive. A vampire might see a girl he had a crush on, or someone that reminds her of the husband who died decades ago, and feel some pang of "love," but it is only an echo of the love that vampire felt while alive. They are static creatures, unable to experience new emotions, just as they are principally unable to change their bodies. The exceptions are rage and fear, because the Beast gives them these. That is why the Dead Julii made a deal with the Strix to gain the Beast, that all Kindred might have some motivation in their eternal Requiems.
    Ah. Yeah. Probably not for me, then... Thanks for the information, though. It's nice to know that before I got it, after all.

  17. - Top - End - #527
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    Ah. Yeah. Probably not for me, then... Thanks for the information, though. It's nice to know that before I got it, after all.
    Like I said, though, that stuff is purely fluff. It won't derail the setting to let your characters enjoy sex or the taste of good food (even if they can't swallow it or they'll yak).

  18. - Top - End - #528
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    Like I said, though, that stuff is purely fluff. It won't derail the setting to let your characters enjoy sex or the taste of good food (even if they can't swallow it or they'll yak).
    True, and I have no problem with refluffing things, but it is the established fluff, and I'd be playing, so I'd have to convince the ST to go along with that, which seems like it'll probably be more trouble than it's worth.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    This discussion does raise an issue that I've been wondering about for a while with Vampire. Even if you do without the "woe is me what have I become" angst, you're left with the fact that you're playing a character who is a parasite on human society, everybody in Vampire society is a hateful and backstabbing **** towards each other and are pathologically incapable of being otherwise, and you're an emotionally muted sociopath.

    Where, exactly, does this get fun?

    Mage appeals to me a lot more because mages have positive, grand-scale long term plans (and appropriately grand-scale screw-ups). Geist appeals to me because it's sort of inherently light ("I'm not dead and I have freaky powers? Sweet!"). Not to mention I like their powersets more from a mechanics perspective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tor the Fallen
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcrow
    It'd be like shooting a baby in the head with a .44, would you give experience for that? Theres no threat, theres not even a challenge beyond hitting the baby.
    Roleplaying experience?

  20. - Top - End - #530
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Mage has a lot of dark potential, and Geist far more, but yeah. If you don't like Byzantine politics, or horror, I'm not sure what all is in Vampire for you.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephisto View Post
    ...and you're an emotionally muted sociopath.
    Eh. You start with Humanity 7. Lose the I have no soul and I must scream angle and you're doing okay in that regard, at least.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    So we're getting both DC and Rio for Mummy which is exciting. I am actually really looking forward to Mummy, I think it may turn out to be my favorite splat yet by the way things are sounding.

  23. - Top - End - #533
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    FYI, the Kickstarter for the deluxe version of Mummy: The Curse, the latest and greatest New World of Darkness game, is down to its last 30 hours. If you might be interested in the full color version with all the deluxe features and free bonus material, but not have not ordered yet, now would be the time. :)
    Avatar courtesy of Szilard

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Ok, I have a question for any of you guys who are familiar with high-level Geist powers. I will soon be acquiring Marionette 5, and in particular Stillness Marionette 5. My question is regarding the Skills the zombie has. The book never explicitly says anything about Skills, though at earlier levels it implies that it uses the Sin-Eater's Mental and Social Skills (since the Sin-Eater controls it completely). But it never says anything helpful about Physical Skills, or what skills the semi-sentient super-zombie has.
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  25. - Top - End - #535
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    My assumption would be that it has no Mental or Social skills. It can't make any Mental skill rolls if the Sin-Eater is controlling it (Marionette 1-4), and even at Marionette 5, it's still only quasi-sentient, which presumably isn't good enough to perform Mental tasks. Social skills would seem to fall under the same rule, with the additional note that Intimidation rolls get a bonus equal to the activation successes. It's visibly a rotting corpse - why are you trying to make it do anything social anyway? A Humanity 1 vampire is still more human in appearance than that thing.

    As for Physical skills... That one I'm not so sure about. The text for Marionette 4 says that the zombie has the same Physical traits it had in life, less 1 dot from each for every 6 months of decay to a minimum of 1. Because they specifically used the word "traits," as opposed to Attributes or Skills, I believe they mean that a zombie raised this way has both the Physical attributes and Physical skills it possessed in life, less the penalty for decay. I think there's a sidebar on zombies elsewhere in the book; let me go check that and see what it says.
    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    They're just there, and horribly fatal when one stumbles across them, like self-aware landmines.

  26. - Top - End - #536
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    My assumption would be that it has no Mental or Social skills. It can't make any Mental skill rolls if the Sin-Eater is controlling it (Marionette 1-4), and even at Marionette 5, it's still only quasi-sentient, which presumably isn't good enough to perform Mental tasks. Social skills would seem to fall under the same rule, with the additional note that Intimidation rolls get a bonus equal to the activation successes. It's visibly a rotting corpse - why are you trying to make it do anything social anyway? A Humanity 1 vampire is still more human in appearance than that thing.

    As for Physical skills... That one I'm not so sure about. The text for Marionette 4 says that the zombie has the same Physical traits it had in life, less 1 dot from each for every 6 months of decay to a minimum of 1. Because they specifically used the word "traits," as opposed to Attributes or Skills, I believe they mean that a zombie raised this way has both the Physical attributes and Physical skills it possessed in life, less the penalty for decay. I think there's a sidebar on zombies elsewhere in the book; let me go check that and see what it says.
    Good point, Intimidate is really the only Social or Mental Skill that a zombie could really need. Though it is worth pointing out that while the zombie can't have a Presence or Manipulation higher than 1, there is no such cap on Mental Attributes. So it is possible for it to have, say, 5 Intelligence.

    Which actually brings me to another point: what do you think the cap is on raising your zombie's attributes?
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  27. - Top - End - #537
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    At Marionette 4, it's two higher than the zombie's lowest trait. If you raise a zombie that only has 1 Dex, you can't raise any of its stats higher than 3. As for Marionette 5, I believe the upper limit is 5 dots in each attribute, same as for anyone with a Power Stat of less than 6 or without a Power Stat to begin with.
    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    They're just there, and horribly fatal when one stumbles across them, like self-aware landmines.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    As for Physical skills... That one I'm not so sure about. The text for Marionette 4 says that the zombie has the same Physical traits it had in life, less 1 dot from each for every 6 months of decay to a minimum of 1. Because they specifically used the word "traits," as opposed to Attributes or Skills, I believe they mean that a zombie raised this way has both the Physical attributes and Physical skills it possessed in life, less the penalty for decay. I think there's a sidebar on zombies elsewhere in the book; let me go check that and see what it says.
    It should also keep its Physical Merits, too - those are also Physical traits!

    Which means you can totally raise a kung-fu zombie.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Is it bad that I'm picturing zombie!Michael Jackson and his zombie army recreating the Beat It video now?
    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    They're just there, and horribly fatal when one stumbles across them, like self-aware landmines.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Is it bad that I'm picturing zombie!Michael Jackson and his zombie army recreating the Beat It video now?
    No, that sounds excellent. And it also serves as an example of why you'd want a zombie to have Expression.
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