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  1. - Top - End - #901
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Well, looks like the GMC didn't appear yesterday after all. Oh well. I do hope they hit the metaphorical shelves soon, though.
    Oh! I took that to mean in seven days. Once you're in the weekend, 'this weekend' would be phrased "tomorrow" if that's what they meant.

  2. - Top - End - #902
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    We might not have GMC yet, but we do have a peek at the new Humanity rules that will be included in the Stix Chronicles. Some of the Breaking Points are pretty interesting and markedly different from the old rules - surviving something that would hospitalize a mortal is a Breaking Point for Humanity 6 and above, for instance.
    Last edited by Morty; 2013-04-08 at 02:53 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #903
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    We might not have GMC yet, but we do have a peek at the new Humanity rules that will be included in the Stix Chronicles. Some of the Breaking Points are pretty interesting and markedly different from the old rules - surviving something that would hospitalize a mortal is a Breaking Point for Humanity 6 and above, for instance.
    Strikes me as a lot like Clarity. Especially the Banes section. Speaking of which, this bane is obviously the best thing to ever happen to VtR:

    Counting: Your character must count things that are in disarray, including rice, sticks, and other similar collections. Unless she’s injured, she cannot stop for a number of minutes equal to 10 – Humanity.


    -------------------------

    Also,

    Quote Originally Posted by Breaking Points
    Spending an hour in the sun.
    ...
    Spending most of a day in the sun.
    Shouldn't these be You're-Dead-Now Points?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    Strikes me as a lot like Clarity. Especially the Banes section. Speaking of which, this bane is obviously the best thing to ever happen to VtR:
    Kind of the point. Your inhumanity is something that outside forces can force you to look at. For example...

    Shouldn't these be You're-Dead-Now Points?
    By power and skill, you've managed to survive something that most humans come through with a minor sunburn! Infatuations you inhuman monster, an don't worry. The burns will fade. Te scars, they'll just seep into your soul until one day, the sizzle of Helios on your skin is but a trifle, and not one of the few anchors to your lost soul.

  5. - Top - End - #905
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Damage from sunlight will depend on your Humanity and Blood Potency now. Vampires with high Humanity and low Blood Potency will be able to spend some time in the sun, although it's still painful and restrictive. As Humanity decreases and Blood Potency increases, it'll become more lethal. We don't know the numbers yet.

    As for why it's a Humanity sin to spend time in the sun - the reasoning given by one of the devs is that even if thou can survive it thanks to your high Humanity, it still hurts, burns and hinders you. Walking around in the sun reminds you that you're an outcast who doesn't belong there every moment.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    So hey. Changeling. Lamont harvests. How do you handle them?

    Everything I've seen puts th power in the player's hands, where basically you can make up a scene whole cloth, give it to the storyteller, and he modifies your roll but can't really deny it. But there's this left-over feeling from other systems where engaging NPCs requires being told there's an NPC there to mess with, and who they are, an all that. The story teller system doesn't do that, though. Not really.

    So how do you folks handle it? I suppose it's two things; how much narrative control does a player have, a well as the specifics of glamour and interactions to get it?

  7. - Top - End - #907
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Selrahc View Post
    With the release of Mummy and a large part of its mechanics being based around long periods of inaction, I think the gamelines now lock into the 7 deadly sins quite nicely.
    • Pride-Mage
    • Greed-Geist
    • Envy-Promethean
    • Sloth-Mummy
    • Lust-Changeling
    • Gluttony-Vampire
    • Wrath-Werewolf
    I'd flip Vampire and Geist. Vampire is about a power game where the prize is control over mortal wealth and slaves. Geist is about how every one else is YOLO and you get a do-over, so party party party.
    "Scary magical hoodoo and technology are the same thing; their difference is merely one of cultural context." - Arthur C. Clarke (paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hiryuu View Post
    I'd flip Vampire and Geist. Vampire is about a power game where the prize is control over mortal wealth and slaves. Geist is about how every one else is YOLO and you get a do-over, so party party party.
    But Vampire works too well for Gluttony. Sure, there's a power game in it, but the basic motivation of every vampire, everything a vampire does, comes back down to Gluttony. Some vampires want power, wealth, or slaves, sure, but not all of them. Some of them don't care about any of that (read: most Gangrel), but they all share Gluttony. They are all driven to feed and to consume to excess. It's the thing that drives them from their havens each night, it's the thing that makes them feed, and most of all, it's the thing they fear most. A vampire's Beast compels to engage in ever more gluttonous acts, and as a vampire's power rises, it does so more willingly. Feeding beyond the basic need for survival, killing a vessel, diablerie, all of these things are examples of the gluttony inherent to the vampiric condition.
    Last edited by ToySoldierCPlus; 2013-04-09 at 02:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by CN the Logos View Post
    They're just there, and horribly fatal when one stumbles across them, like self-aware landmines.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    *snip*
    You're right on that Vampires don't have to play the greed game unless they want to. They like to do it. It's the only thing that means anything anymore, clutching onto your power base and playing petty political games. Three out of five vampire clans are all about being greedy jerkwads who put their own desires over others, and their whole society is based around who can backstab who for the most profit.

    On the other hand, there's nothing inherently greedy about Sin-Eater society or Sin-Eaters in general. Only one badly maligned archetype, the Bonepicker.

    Maybe it's just that they don't fit neatly into those categories.
    "Scary magical hoodoo and technology are the same thing; their difference is merely one of cultural context." - Arthur C. Clarke (paraphrased)

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by hiryuu View Post
    Maybe it's just that they don't fit neatly into those categories.
    That's my take, as I would put vampies at lust, personally. It's not just the blood, it's the hunt, the game, the sensation.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Damage from sunlight will depend on your Humanity and Blood Potency now. Vampires with high Humanity and low Blood Potency will be able to spend some time in the sun, although it's still painful and restrictive. As Humanity decreases and Blood Potency increases, it'll become more lethal. We don't know the numbers yet.

    As for why it's a Humanity sin to spend time in the sun - the reasoning given by one of the devs is that even if thou can survive it thanks to your high Humanity, it still hurts, burns and hinders you. Walking around in the sun reminds you that you're an outcast who doesn't belong there every moment.
    As long as they don't sparkle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Again?

    Okay, I've said this before: alien nanites.
    It is inevitable, of course, that persons of epicurean refinement will in the course of eternity engage in dealings with those of... unsavory character. Record well any transactions made, and repay all favors promptly.. (Thanks to Gnomish Wanderer for the Toreador avatar! )

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    As for why it's a Humanity sin to spend time in the sun - the reasoning given by one of the devs is that even if thou can survive it thanks to your high Humanity, it still hurts, burns and hinders you. Walking around in the sun reminds you that you're an outcast who doesn't belong there every moment.
    On the other hand, you're making a sacrifice to be there, seeing as it injure you when you're in it - one that, if things go wrong, could kill you, and of necessity exposes you to just about every other danger of the supernatural world at a time when you're weakened.

    And you're (in general, seeing as most things that a vampire would do in the sun are not things related to the supernatural, so far as I can tell) doing this why? Because you want to live some semblance of a normal life, interact with people, be as close to a mortal instead of a monster as you can. That sounds very human to me.

    Of course, I don't know all that much about the specific incarnation of the system that's in question here, but still. It seems like they're taking a very narrow view of things there.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    On the other hand, you're making a sacrifice to be there, seeing as it injure you when you're in it - one that, if things go wrong, could kill you, and of necessity exposes you to just about every other danger of the supernatural world at a time when you're weakened.

    And you're (in general, seeing as most things that a vampire would do in the sun are not things related to the supernatural, so far as I can tell) doing this why? Because you want to live some semblance of a normal life, interact with people, be as close to a mortal instead of a monster as you can. That sounds very human to me.

    Of course, I don't know all that much about the specific incarnation of the system that's in question here, but still. It seems like they're taking a very narrow view of things there.
    Yes, you try to do all those things. But the sun mercilessly reminds you that you can't do this, not really. And that this is all just a charade.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Yes, you try to do all those things. But the sun mercilessly reminds you that you can't do this, not really. And that this is all just a charade.
    True... But what I'm saying is that, really, that depends on the vampire in question's worldview. Certainly, you can see it that way - but you can also see it as being willing to confront your limitations, and choosing to take direct harm rather than give up on even the smallest aspect of your humanity.

    Also, it says 'Note that breaking points do not occur while a character is in torpor. Upon awakening, discovering missed breaking points could constitute new breaking points at Storyteller discretion. If multiple versions of a breaking point apply, use the worse of the two.'

    Out of curiosity, then, how does the Humanity 4 breaking point of 'Spending a year or more in torpor.' interact with the Humanity 3 breaking point of 'One month without human contact.'? If you discover the former, then, naturally, you automatically qualify for the latter, and thus would use that instead so what's the point of including the first as a separate breaking point?
    Last edited by Lady Serpentine; 2013-04-10 at 06:52 AM.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    God-Machine Chronicle has been submitted to DTRPG for approval... no idea how long that takes.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    Also, it says 'Note that breaking points do not occur while a character is in torpor. Upon awakening, discovering missed breaking points could constitute new breaking points at Storyteller discretion. If multiple versions of a breaking point apply, use the worse of the two.'

    Out of curiosity, then, how does the Humanity 4 breaking point of 'Spending a year or more in torpor.' interact with the Humanity 3 breaking point of 'One month without human contact.'? If you discover the former, then, naturally, you automatically qualify for the latter, and thus would use that instead so what's the point of including the first as a separate breaking point?
    I'm guessing that by "torpor" they mean any sort of fugue state (perhaps the term means something different in B&S, or maybe it's a typo). The intention, I believe, is that you hit a breaking point if you wake up and find out that you've been running around killing people. The "no human contact" breaking points are more along the lines of "You spend X amount of time totally separated from the world of man, treating humans only as prey to be consumed and interacting only with fellow undead." Some sort of activity (even something as simple as brooding silently) is necessary; if you spend the entire period comatose, you probably don't hit a breaking point.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by JMobius View Post
    God-Machine Chronicle has been submitted to DTRPG for approval... no idea how long that takes.
    A few days..... I believe the Mummy preview stuff was out the following weekend?
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    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    True... But what I'm saying is that, really, that depends on the vampire in question's worldview. Certainly, you can see it that way - but you can also see it as being willing to confront your limitations, and choosing to take direct harm rather than give up on even the smallest aspect of your humanity.

    Also, it says 'Note that breaking points do not occur while a character is in torpor. Upon awakening, discovering missed breaking points could constitute new breaking points at Storyteller discretion. If multiple versions of a breaking point apply, use the worse of the two.'

    Out of curiosity, then, how does the Humanity 4 breaking point of 'Spending a year or more in torpor.' interact with the Humanity 3 breaking point of 'One month without human contact.'? If you discover the former, then, naturally, you automatically qualify for the latter, and thus would use that instead so what's the point of including the first as a separate breaking point?
    That seems to have been updated to read "at Storyteller discretion," which makes sense. It's probably meant more for ones like "your mortal spouse died".

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by JMobius View Post
    God-Machine Chronicle has been submitted to DTRPG for approval... no idea how long that takes.
    Huzzah! Should have the free rules download and then, shortly after, the actual book purchase!

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    [QUOTE=Sith_Happens;15056133


    [/QUOTE]

    I'm going to guess that bane is one of the "oppressed minorities" of the Kindred world: "Oh hey Count, could you run this message to Big Bird to me? "

    Also, I love the Web one:

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    Hunters: "Hey look, a spider-infested barn!"

    Elder: "...GODDAMMIT!"
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Has anyone taken OWoD/V20 and mixed in elements from NWoD, for their games?

    I picked up the cheap 3 buck PDF and they really did a great job of covering conversions.

    Been debating adding Blood Potency to a game that will use V20 for it's footing (alternate blood advancement to diablerie/generation stealing afterall); as well as some of the bloodlines/clans (Mehket, etc.).

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    If your power stat is reduced to nothing, can you actually still use abilities?

    Also, what are the effects of having no Willpower dots left?

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    If your power stat is reduced to nothing, can you actually still use abilities?

    Also, what are the effects of having no Willpower dots left?
    Well having Willpower 1 is described as being 'Spineless' so I'd imagine someone with NO Willpower is, at very best, an utter shut in without the Will or motivation to ever leave their own home or do anything constructive. They'd probably waste away and die quickly.

    If you have no Power Stat I'm not sure you're alive let alone able to use abilities
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Well having Willpower 1 is described as being 'Spineless' so I'd imagine someone with NO Willpower is, at very best, an utter shut in without the Will or motivation to ever leave their own home or do anything constructive. They'd probably waste away and die quickly.

    If you have no Power Stat I'm not sure you're alive let alone able to use abilities
    I was more wondering about what the effect of it being reduced to that while out might be, but yes, makes sense.

    Mortals don't, so theoretically, it is possible to survive without a power stat in a general sense. Of course, whether that applies to supernaturals, I don't know...
    Last edited by Lady Serpentine; 2013-04-13 at 07:37 AM.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    I was more wondering about what the effect of it being reduced to that while out might be, but yes, makes sense.

    .
    That's what I'd guessed. It would be a terrible curse/spell, something that not only cripples the person it affects but removes the will to even do anything about the curse until they eventually waste away and die a lonely death in their own refuses
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2013-04-13 at 07:58 AM.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Well having Willpower 1 is described as being 'Spineless' so I'd imagine someone with NO Willpower is, at very best, an utter shut in without the Will or motivation to ever leave their own home or do anything constructive. They'd probably waste away and die quickly.
    Mentally exhausted and unable to take imitative; possibly completely lacking agency; a puppet or dazed/shocked person.

    If you have no Power Stat I'm not sure you're alive let alone able to use abilities
    Mm. I am against being able to reduce a power stat to that degree. Once you have one it is intrinsic to your make up, and the question is akin to asking what a person is without matter, or what an idea is without ontological existence.

    Wyrd is your connection to a force, which is now a fundamental part of you. Primal urge is an actual component of your spirit-flesh. Etc.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by SiuiS View Post
    Mentally exhausted and unable to take imitative; possibly completely lacking agency; a puppet or dazed/shocked person.
    C'Nor specified having no Willpower DOTS not just being out of Willpower points
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  29. - Top - End - #929
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    C'Nor specified having no Willpower DOTS not just being out of Willpower points
    That's why I said puppet. You're not RPing being woozy, you are an NPC for the duration. You have no agency.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by C'nor View Post
    Mortals don't, so theoretically, it is possible to survive without a power stat in a general sense. Of course, whether that applies to supernaturals, I don't know...
    Supernaturals aren't mortals. It's a pretty big theme in the WoD that, as you gain more power, you become less human. A vampire, for instance, is basically a corpse animated by magic. If you take away Blood Potency, you don't get a regular mortal: You get a regular corpse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.

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