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2012-10-15, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Wouldn't that just have the powdered wood lodging in the vampire's stomach? I was under impression that they actually drink blood and vitae in most cases and then mystically add it to their Vitae pools, not inject it intravenously (and with blush of life that surely would work via stomach and as probably a lot of people can attest, eating powdered wood or something similar - e.g. sand or flour or cinnamon - doesn't result in it lodging itself in your heart ;) ), and even then, why would it lodge itself in the heart and not veins? It would be a really generous Storytelling interpretation to let that fly.
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2012-10-15, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
That's an even better point - the circulatory system and the digestive system don't have any connections, so how would the powder in the Lacrima get from one to the other?
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
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2012-10-15, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Humorous note, cinnamon is made by harvesting the bark of a specific tree - if secreting powdered wood into a vampire's meal counts as staking them, then ordinary cinnamon should be able to do the job.
It is inevitable, of course, that persons of epicurean refinement will in the course of eternity engage in dealings with those of... unsavory character. Record well any transactions made, and repay all favors promptly.. (Thanks to Gnomish Wanderer for the Toreador avatar! )
Wanna see what all this Exalted stuff is about? Here's a primer!
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2012-10-15, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Well, nutrients and the like are absorbed through the small intestine, but only digestible(ish) stuff gets absorbed that way. And certain things (alcohol) can be absorbed directly into blood vessels in the mouth and esophagus. Of course, indigestible things, like wood, don't get absorbed. This is a gross oversimplification, but the fact that wood wouldn't enter the circulatory system through any part of the digestive tract remains.
All of that is moot, however, as it's true that vampires don't work that way. They drink blood, and then move it to wherever it needs to be. Considering that they don't bleed when wounded, I'd say it's reasonable to assume that Vitae just sort of sits in their stomachs until they move it elsewhere, though I suppose it is possible that they automatically move it into their heart and circulatory systems once they've consumed it.
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2012-10-15, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
I figure it's just 'there', not in any specific portion of their decayed and withered anatomy even if they are spending Vitae to animate those organs. If you stab a vampire or slash an artery open, they don't lose Vitae in addition to the health levels of damage taken, so while drinking blood increases their Vitae store, the physical medium of the blood itself isn't tied to the Vitae - for cross-reference, Ghouls retain their Vitae even after they've digested the blood they drink, and they're still alive.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-10-15, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Last edited by The Random NPC; 2012-10-15 at 08:54 PM.
See when a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, you can bet we've bought the vinyl.
-Snow White
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2012-10-15, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-10-15 at 08:52 PM.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-10-16, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Yeah. I think Chiron actually knows how to stick a vamp and vacuum blood out while it's still alive, even.
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2012-10-20, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
CAS provides one last spoiler before we inch towards the release of Mummy:the Curse!
http://whitewolfblogs.com/mummy/2012...e-launch-post/
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2012-10-21, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Has anyone read Wraith: The Arising? I'm looking for reviews and opinions on it.
EDIT: Also, does anyone have any devotions that would let an Elder vampire embrace a childe with one or two additional dots of blood potency? Specifically, several devotions with different prerequisites that accomplish the same thing (so that no clan is at a particular experience cost disadvantage), but without the elder having to sacrifice his own BP (since this would allow him to get out of feeding restrictions, and there's already a Cruac ritual for that).Last edited by JAnderson789; 2012-10-21 at 03:06 PM.
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2012-10-27, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Lodged in the walls of text somewhere is a statement saying that XP expenditure on the hollow merit is based on the current number o dots in that category. So if everyone buy 1 dot for, say, size, the first is 3 xp, the second is 6, and the third is 9. Actual dots from character creation don't worry about this, they just add together.
Note that if one puts 2 dots in size, another 2 dots in security as the third 2 dots in amenities, that's only (3+6) 9 dots per changeling. I will find a page number when I can, but I spent today's looking for this before I caught it and ha to backtrack on character generation.
objects, not natural elements. A clockwork mannequin, a war forged and pinocchio are all elementals.
Ogres: They'll grind your bones to make their bread. Or just smash you into pulp. They're big, they're ugly, they're occasionally cannibalistic.
Completely 100%. The difference is ideological; the Hisil is half of reality, vitally important to and the birthright of all uratha. The shadow is a twisted hell scape populated by a mockery of reality where even decent things ate twisted, predatory and insane. The rules don't change. Mages are just do high up the abstraction ladder they tend to miss the point. They can't see the trees for the continental weather patterns that lead to forest growth.
Get ahold of Thanqol, via PM. He's all over F:SN as a Mage analogue. The idea is the players are covert and the guardian things are all mostly vulgar. But I do it a disservice, compared to his expounding.
Or the fact that by the time wood is ground so fine to e absorbed I tote system as a liquid it's not wood anymore? And if it's large enough for the splinters to puncture, they'll never get there because tissue?
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2012-10-27, 05:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Please do find a page number regarding that, because when I was researching the answer to this question, the conclusion at which I arrived (via some snippets from the books and white wolf forums) was that residence merits like Hollow are really a 15 dot merits and to get one with 2 dots in security, 2 dots in amenities and 2 in size PCs would have to split spending 42 xp between themselves (and a fully tricked out residence would cost a whopping 360 xp).
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2012-10-27, 07:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
You're thinking of Geist. Pages 95-96 in the core Changeling book say that "The combined pool of points is used to determine the cost in experience points for raising the Hollow Merit during play."
The question was answered a while ago, anyway, but yes, this was basically the explanation offered. the cost to each changeling investing in a shared hollow is based on how many dots he/she has put into the shared merit, not the total for the shared merit.
Okay, the Manikins are objects. So are some of the Fairest. Most elementals are made of natural elements, however.
That's the beauty of the system. But he asked for short, simple descriptions, and when most ogres are big and brutish, the typical ogre, troll, or giant from myth and legend, well...
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2012-10-27, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Bottom of 95, edging into 96;
Originally Posted by Changeling: The Lost
No, I am thinking of changeling and Mage, having never read Geist, seen it in person and usually not remembering it exists. I will also point out this does not contradict me at all, and actually supports my statement.
The question was answered a while ago, anyway, but yes, this was basically the explanation offered. the cost to each changeling investing in a shared hollow is based on how many dots he/she has put into the shared merit, not the total for the shared merit.Incorrect. Combined pool. very clear. The big issue at this point is whether to count Doors, Amenities, Size and Wards as separate merits, or if the perfect hollow will eventually cost 60 points for the final dot.
Aha, okay. I'm sorry, I totally misconstrued what you meant. It could go either wy by literal reading, but yours is more in line with being playable.
Okay, the Manikins are objects. So are some of the Fairest. Most elementals are made of natural elements, however.
That's the beauty of the system. But he asked for short, simple descriptions, and when most ogres are big and brutish, the typical ogre, troll, or giant from myth and legend, well...
Ideological differences I suppose?Last edited by SiuiS; 2012-10-27 at 08:42 PM.
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2012-10-27, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
I think you've got it backwards - it's not that all Ogres are use for manual labor and thus they become big and strong, it's that all Ogres are big and strong and thus usually used for manual labor. Some ogres are laborers, some are gladiators, some are guardians - the only important thing is being big and strong (technically big and tough). If you were used for manual labor and didn't become a huge brute, then you weren't an Ogre.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-10-27, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Six changelings where owned by the same gentry. He set them, and many others, to dig a ditch around his kingdom of rolling sand. They all spent each day in backbreaking labor, never knowing rest or water promised their freedom after the day was done in a land the sun never sets.
The first thought that he must just focus on the task and get though it. He became the task, and a wizened of the drunge seeming. He could dig faster than anyone, but he became easy to forget and sometimes he even forgets himself.
The second sang to pass the time. Though her throat was parched her singing would slow the lash of her cruel master. She became a fairest, gifted in songs sung of desperation.
The third gave up and became the sand. His bones could not abandon the ask though. His flesh eroded away and became dust, but the dust kept moving, always trudging forward unable to stop. He became an elemental.
The fourth had his flesh burned by the harsh unending sun. He always hid in the shadows of his fellow workers, forcing them to bear the brunt of the suns rays. He became the shade that never grants relief, your own shadow, a darkling.
The fifth was tormented most by the hunger. He was a large fellow to start with and his hunger slowed him down and drew the master's whip. Eventually he gave in and ate a bite off a worker who fell behind. It gave him the strength to avoid the lash for a while. Soon he ate all the corpses who gave into the desert. He became an ogre who eats the fallen.
The Sixth dropped his shovel one day and the sand took it. In desperation he began to dig with his hands. The sand burned his fingers back to the bone, leaving large claws in their place. He lost his eyesight to the glare of the sun and his head hunched into his shoulders to block the wind. Before he knew it he was a mole, adapted to dig though the sand, a beast.
It doesn't matter what you do for your master while you are enslaved, what maters is what you do to yourself, and how what you did changed you. What part of you was sacrificed to survive on the other side of the thorns. Was it your sanity like a wizened? Was it your dignity like a fairest? Was it your sense of self like an elemental? Was it the joy of light like a darkling? Was it your morality like an ogre? Was it your humanity like a beast?Last edited by Fouredged Sword; 2012-10-27 at 09:35 PM.
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2012-10-27, 09:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
I disagree. The defining traits of an ogre are A) can magically boost strength, brawl and intimidate, and shaky composure. A redcap is only four feet tall and able to throw trucks, and a wolfhound may be seven feet tall an frightening, but lithe, agile an no stronger than a normal man. Ogres are "always Brutish in some way", and "kidnapped by monsters, they become monsters". Like I said, it's mutable, but I see the ability to frighten, beat and struggle violently, along with an inability to control your outbursts (the ogre blessing and curse, respectively) indicative of the syndrome where someone who is bullied becomes a bully. More than anything an ogre struggles with the fact that if they just do as their keeper did and beat people into obedience, it would be faster and easier.
fouredged sword has the right of it of course, but of there is a causative nature, I feel that Durance leads to seeming more than future seeming leads to durance. Or that your seeming and kith can inform your build but that your build does not inform your kith and seeming.Last edited by SiuiS; 2012-10-27 at 09:47 PM.
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2012-10-28, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Not to break the flow of conversation, but it's worth noting that Drive Through RPG's halloween giveaway this year includes a free PDF copy of the WoD core book. Just a PSA.
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2012-10-28, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Individual Merit, though not shared. Sharing works a bit... differently. Or I should hope it does, at any rate.
Ah, okay. In Geist, as opposed to (as far as I recall) every other NWoD gameline, each trait is considered a separate merit for determining cost. Making a maxed out Haunt cheaper than any other "living space" merit.
There ya go.
Night time is really more in line with a darkling (or a fairest of a certain kith), though. I'm not completely familiar with elementals, however, so if they have a kith that represents night time (or day time, another fairest kith), let me know.
Yes and no. Your examples are valid, but you could be made into something different by your Keeper, without any say in the matter. It varies from changeling to changeling, but generally speaking kith and seeming should reflect durance in some manner. In the case of your durance example, your seemings are all valid. I could also posit that six changelings are taken for the same purpose, and are whipped and beaten if they do not dig fast enough, regardless of anything else. Through the beatings, and the backbreaking manual labor, they all become ogres. This is also a valid option. If the Keeper that took them treated them like beasts, beasts they would become. Seeming and kith reflect many things, the will to survive, the nature of the durance, and the Keeper itself. Any of those can be used to determine what seeming and kith a changeling gets from his/her durance.
I'm inclined to agree, as noted above.
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2012-10-28, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
You are right that the shape a changeling ends up in has many ways it can be determined. I simply wanted to show that the same durance could result in very different changelings. IE, holding all other factors the same can result in varied outcomes due to internal factors. It is rightly complicated though, and is best left that way to allow players to adapt the story to create the character they want rather than the character the rules would force them to make.
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2012-10-28, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Whereas I was pointing out that multiple different durances can result in the same Seeming. It's even illuminated in the book by the different Kiths, and the Durance section. The same reasonings and factors you're talking about, but looked at in reverse, for people who start with mechanics first and work backwards.
Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2012-10-28 at 04:44 PM.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-10-28, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Random questions: are there any powers that can prevent a supernatural from using their supernatural "fuel" (Vitae, Essence, Mana et cetera)? I can't think of any myself.
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
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2012-10-28, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-10-28, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
A spirit/death mage could likely mess up anything that wanted to use essence.
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2012-10-31, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-31, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
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2012-11-04, 06:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
This is both interesting an saddening. If I wanted a game where this stud was required for success, I'd play D&D for it.
Still, it is interesting to see these things in action. Isn't there also a merit in Reloaded that lets you use extra weapons with a combat style. I always figured grabbing that for Garou claws with weapon styles would be boss.
Sounds legit.
remember, one of the best plans to actually take on Dracula was "The Texan distracts him and I will kill him with my kukhri knife". Dracula was a glass cannon, a creature without the human intelligence to really utilize it. Dracula was a manhole predator.
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2012-11-04, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Fouredged: you forgot the magical radiation spear.
Staff 3 / Heavy Sword 3 / Spear 4 was the optimal setup, AFAIK.
Lets you hit an area and ignore defence/armour stacking at the same time, which clears most of the ridiculous things you need to worry about.
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2012-11-04, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
I don't see how this combination ignores defense/armor. From what I can tell Staff 3 lets you hit everyone in 3 yards, Spear 4 lets you add your Strength or Weaponry when you All Out Attack, and Heavy Sword 3 lets you add 2 to the final damage total. So final total with an All Out Attack, (Weapon Rating + Strength + Weaponry + (Weaponry or Strength) - Defense - Other Factors) = Attack Pool for everyone in 3 yards. Damage = Successes from Attack Pool +2.
See when a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, you can bet we've bought the vinyl.
-Snow White
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2012-11-04, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!
Some people seem to think that penalty that is applied to attack when using Staff 3 is the ONLY penalty that's used. Which ignores the fact that the system doesn't work that way; the penalty is additional one, not replacing one. Saying that Staff 3 ignores Defence and Armor isn't exploiting some loophole, it's just cheating.