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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    So, the newest in the series is just about to be released in the US. (And practically everyone else in the world has already had it for a while.)

    I've wanted to ask a few questions about the series, possibly while replaying it and getting other things understood. Lord knows it would take a group of researchers to make sense out of most JRPGS, let alone one as odd and complicated as Kingdom Hearts.

    So I wanna make this thread.

    And I'd like to ask if we can talk without worrying about Spoilers, because there's just oh so uch that doesn't seem to quite make sense, and worrying about who has or hasn't played this or that makes the issues even harder to understand.

    Anyone else here who has an interest in the Kingdom Hearts series?

    If so, let's start with something "simple":

    How many people are part of Sora now? From my count, we've got...
    1. Sora himself
    2. Ventus from -way- back
    3. Vanitas somehow, maybe clinging to Ventus?
    4. Roxas, after he went back into Sora,
    5. Xion, having become part of Roxas,
    6. and, somehow, Namine, being intrinsically linked to both Sora and Kairi.


    Is that about right? Am I forgetting someone else?

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    I believe your count is pretty much correct, through Namine appears to be more connected to Kairi.
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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Not quite. Roxas was basically Ventus with amnesia, so they only count as one.

    Vanitas was just Ventus' darkness, which Xehanort stripped out of him. So if he did merge with Ventus, all it means is that Ventus is a complete being again.

    Xion never existed as a separate being in the first place, due to being made up of memories stolen from Sora. So she's only "part of" Sora in the same sense that any of his own memories are.

    Namine is Kairi's Nobody, not Sora's. She just has certain powers over Sora due to her unique birth.

    So, in the end, I would say it's just Sora and Ventus in there.
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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    No, Roxas wasn't Ventus with amnesia, while his form was that of Ventus, he was his own being, so he counts.

    Now, I'll give you that Vanitas is mostly likely gone back to Ventus, so he wouldn't count.

    As for Xion, she may not have started out as a separate being, but she became one. Sure she was mostly Sora's memories given life by some process of Vexen, but even after almost every last bit of her was gone, there is still something left.

    So that's four people in there, some how. Or least very closely connected.
    Last edited by ThePhantom; 2012-07-23 at 02:58 PM.
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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    No, Roxas wasn't Ventus with amnesia, while his form was that of Ventus, he was his own being, so he counts.

    Now, I'll give you that Vanitas is mostly likely gone back to Ventus, so he wouldn't count.

    As for Xion, she may not have started out as a separate being, but she became one. Sure she was mostly Sora's memories given life by some process of Vexen, but even after almost every last bit of her was gone, there is still something left.

    So that's four people in there, some how. Or least very closely connected.
    That's probably a few more than you want living in any protagonists head.

    Also, good God. I step out for a few games and everything gets weird... er.
    "How're we doing?"
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    "So as bad as usual, huh?"

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    My count is sora has

    1. Sora himself
    2. Ventus
    3. Roxas (sora's nobody)
    4. Xion

    I am pretty sure vanitas was destroyed. and Namine is weird but end of KH2 shows that she is kairi's nobody.

    I count people based on differing life experiences. I would say that roxas and sora is different. So much so that roxas fought sora. and that roxas and ventus are different even if they look the same. plus you gotta keep the trios together.Sora Kairi Riku. Xion Roxas Axel, Ventus aqua terra

    Even though xion is bunch of mermories stuffed into a doll she had sentience so i consider her a person we need to save when KH3 ever comes out.

    though then i feel for namine maybe she can get a replica riku and replica sora.
    waiting on KH 3D. it is a week away i can't wait

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rake21 View Post
    That's probably a few more than you want living in any protagonists head.
    Indeed. All that pressure he and his many conciousnesses are under is why he's so susceptable to Team X's Heart Rape, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rake21 View Post
    Also, good God. I step out for a few games and everything gets weird... er.
    ..... No. The games were normal to a point. By Days and DDD, the games get weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    I believe your count is pretty much correct, through Namine appears to be more connected to Kairi.
    True, though she's part of the cluster **** that is Sora's conciousness, as far as DDD seems concerned... or at least still part of Xion's, who is part of Sora's... this is why i made this thread; I'm still trying to understand what the **** is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight13 View Post
    Not quite. Roxas was basically Ventus with amnesia, so they only count as one.
    Roxas wasn't channeling Ventus at all. Roxas was channeling Xion, and Sora's memories of Riku and Kairi. Ventus is just inside Sora's heart..... ****, does Sora's Heartless also count as being someone else in the aforementioned cluster****?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight13 View Post
    Vanitas was just Ventus' darkness, which Xehanort stripped out of him. So if he did merge with Ventus, all it means is that Ventus is a complete being again.
    Spoiler Alert: Vanitas is definitely awake enough in them to at least verbally insult Sora in the Notredome World. And there's a chance he's responsible for Anti-Form Sora in KHII. So he's definitely not playing nice in Ventus.

    Besides, Ventus as a complete being would have ment a re-appearance of the Xi-Blade much sooner, what with the perfect matches of Pure Light and Pure Darkness merging. And Vanitas was going more for a take over, rather than merging. Plus, Ventus was rendered to be as pure as a Princess of Heart...

    Of course, I'm still scratching my head trying to remember everything...

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight13 View Post
    Xion never existed as a separate being in the first place, due to being made up of memories stolen from Sora. So she's only "part of" Sora in the same sense that any of his own memories are.
    .... I'm the only one on this thread that's been exposesd to half of 3DS' mind ****ing, aren't I? She's still alive in Sora, even if she's the only one in him that still realises it. ... **** got complicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight13 View Post
    Namine is Kairi's Nobody, not Sora's. She just has certain powers over Sora due to her unique birth.
    True. I forgot, that was Xion appearing as Namine... hopefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight13 View Post
    So, in the end, I would say it's just Sora and Ventus in there.
    Nah, it's Sora, Roxas, Ventus, Vanitas, and Xion, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    Now, I'll give you that Vanitas is mostly likely gone back to Ventus, so he wouldn't count.
    See above. He's not done yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    As for Xion, she may not have started out as a separate being, but she became one. Sure she was mostly Sora's memories given life by some process of Vexen, but even after almost every last bit of her was gone, there is still something left.

    So that's four people in there, some how. Or least very closely connected.
    Spoilered because a bit perverted:

    Spoiler
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    Dear God, no wonder there's so much Yaoi about KH, one person is, at minimum, a 4-some!


    Quote Originally Posted by Illieas View Post
    I count people based on differing life experiences. I would say that roxas and sora is different. So much so that roxas fought sora. and that roxas and ventus are different even if they look the same. plus you gotta keep the trios together.Sora Kairi Riku. Xion Roxas Axel, Ventus aqua terra
    You forgot Sora, Donald and Goofy! Yes, in that order.

    Quote Originally Posted by Illieas View Post
    Even though xion is bunch of mermories stuffed into a doll she had sentience so i consider her a person we need to save when KH3 ever comes out.
    Technically, Namine is also included in the list of people Sora's gotta save... at least if the secret videos count, and they usually do. But **** still doesn't make sense...

    Quote Originally Posted by Illieas View Post
    though then i feel for namine maybe she can get a replica riku and replica sora.
    Oh god, don't get started on replicas...

    Quote Originally Posted by Illieas View Post
    waiting on KH 3D. it is a week away i can't wait
    I pissed myself the second the Julius fight was leaked. A Disney Villain as difficult to fight as Sephiroth...

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Damn man, Xehanort has really topped himself this time.

    Xehanort is playing Xanatos Roulette with a rigged wheel...

    Watch it, here be spoilers.
    Spoiler
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    13 Xehanort's...THIRTEEN OF HIM!
    Woe, the true Organization XIII has risen, members include
    1: Master Xehanort
    2: Young Xehanort, pulled from the past of an alternate timeline
    3: Ansem, Seeker Of Darkness
    4: Xemnas
    5: Braig/Xigbar (Possessed)
    6: Isa/Saix (Possessed)
    7-12: Unidentified.
    13: Would have been Sora (Possessed), were it not for the joint efforts and multiple successive Big Damn Heroes of Riku, Mickey, Lea/Axel, Donald and Goofy. For now the seat remains empty...though that likely won't last long.

    And so the stage is set for Kingdom Hearts 3.



    ...Wait a moment *Looks at my user name, notices it's my name in reverse with an X added*
    ...Pffffftttt....
    Last edited by Mixt; 2012-07-24 at 12:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    ...Wait a moment *Looks at my user name, notices it's my name in reverse with an X added*
    ...Pffffftttt....
    Some call you....

    Tim?

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Damn man, Xehanort has really topped himself this time.

    Xehanort is playing Xanatos Roulette with a rigged wheel...

    Watch it, here be spoilers.
    Spoiler
    Show
    13 Xehanort's...THIRTEEN OF HIM!
    Woe, the true Organization XIII has risen, members include
    1: Master Xehanort
    2: Young Xehanort, pulled from the past of an alternate timeline
    3: Ansem, Seeker Of Darkness
    4: Xemnas
    5: Braig/Xigbar (Possessed)
    6: Isa/Saix (Possessed)
    7-12: Unidentified.
    13: Would have been Sora (Possessed), were it not for the joint efforts and multiple successive Big Damn Heroes of Riku, Mickey, Lea/Axel, Donald and Goofy. For now the seat remains empty...though that likely won't last long.

    And so the stage is set for Kingdom Hearts 3.
    I'm still trying to figure stuff out about that...

    Spoiler
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    I thought Young Master Xehanort disappeared, having gone from watching Sora's final battle against Xemnas to start the series by initiating the process that lead to Ansem and Xemnas' births, stoping only to fight against Riku...

    How was Old Master Xehanort reborn from Young Master Xehanort's defeat?

    How does Old Master Xehanort exist at the same time of Ansem and Xemnas?

    What does all of this mean for Terra's body and heart?

    What does all of this mean for Master Eraqus' body, mind and heart?

    Where did the other half of the first Organisation go? And where the heck did all of the new members come from?


    Personally, I wanted to start asking about the simple stuff first, but you had to bring it up....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    ...Wait a moment *Looks at my user name, notices it's my name in reverse with an X added*
    ...Pffffftttt....
    That's funny.... right?

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    I think i may be able to answer one of those questions at least.

    Spoiler
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    My understanding of it goes rougly like this.
    In the primary Timeline, henceforth refered to as Timeline A, shortly after becoming a Heartless "Ansem" gives up his physical form in order to be able to travel through time, so he goes back and arrives in Timeline B, where he recruits Young Master Xehanort and grants him the power of time travel as well, then he travels back to Timeline A and possesses Riku, eventually leading to his defeat at Sora's hands in the first game.
    The events leading up to Xemnas's demise follows.

    When both "Ansem" and Xemnas have been destroyed, thus starting the process of reforming the original Xehanort, Young Xehanort goes to timeline C and recruits that Timelines versions of "Ansem" and Xemnas at some point prior to their defeat.
    Since even small changes in events can cause the timeline to split, this "Ansem" and Xemnas have basically the same memories and experiences as the ones from Timeline A despite actually not being them.

    Result: "Ansem" and Xemnas manages to Co-Exist with the original Master Xehanort. Thanks a lot, Young Xehanort, or should i say...Trollanort?


    Also, now for some Fridge Logic.

    Spoiler
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    Xehanort is a chess master, if his plot to create the X-Blade had succeeded, how exactly would he have controlled Vanitas, seeing as how Vanitas would be the one with the X-Blade. He must have had some way to ensure there wouldn't be any betrayals.

    It turns out that having yellow eyes is not actually a sign or darkness corruption as originally believed, it's actually a sign that you are being influenced by Xehanort. Which explains Xigbar and Saix having yellow eyes when the rest of the Organization didn't, turns out they were already partially possessed.

    Vanitas is a being of pure darkness, and has yellow eyes, even though it turns out that yellow eyes has nothing to do with darkness...

    ...Vanitas shows up briefly alongside Young Xehanort in Notre Dame to taunt Sora

    ...Aww crap!


    That's funny.... right?
    Considering just what the X means, no, not funny.
    Spoiler
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    Xehanort, don't you dare try to turn me into another you! I am not your property!
    Last edited by Mixt; 2012-07-25 at 04:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    So aparently i am waaaaay behind. Could someone catch me up here, the last game i played was For the PSP. When did
    Spoiler
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    Time Travel
    Happen?
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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    So aparently i am waaaaay behind. Could someone catch me up here, the last game i played was For the PSP. When did
    Spoiler
    Show
    Time Travel
    Happen?
    Spoiler
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    It first showed up in Timeless River in Kingdom Hearts 2, though that incident had nothing to do with this other than to establish that it's possible.

    It's next appearance was during the hidden bonus boss battle against the Mysterious Figure (Now known as Young Xehanort) in Birth By Sleep for the PSP where he would sometimes rewind time a few seconds when you hit him, thus undoing the damage, and then use his knowledge of what you are going to do to dodge before the attack can hit him again.

    Basically, he was using time travel to heal himself and dodge your attacks, the cheap bastard.

    This is also the guy who can 1-hit kill you even when you have a full health bar, has ridiculously long combos, a block move that heals a full health bar, can turn invisible so you can't target him, blows your commands out of your menu so you can't use them and uses doom to kill you instantly if you can't escape the bindings in time.

    And now in Dream Drop Distance it shows up again, where it's revealed that jumping back and forth between Timelines and different points in time to recruit 13 different incarnations of himself in order to form a new Organization XIII is a vital part of Xehanort's plans.

    Also, near the end off the game during the boss battle against Young Xehanort, when you defeat him he uses time travel to restart the battle, forcing you to fight him again, and when you defeat him again, he rewinds time AGAIN, and so on ad infinitum, restarting the boss battle every time you beat him unless you use a Reality Shift (AKA Minor Reality Warping, due to dreams being malleable and them currently being in a dreamscape) to stop him from doing so, basically smashing the rewinding clock to pieces so that he can't restart the battle, so the second part of the battle has you on a time limit to break his time travel attempt before he can rewind. If you pull that off you win the battle.
    The guy is called Trollanort by fans for a reason.
    "Think you beat me? Think again!" *Rewinds time to the start of the battle*


    Now, for how time travel works in the Kingdom Hearts universe.
    In order to travel through time you need something to anchor yourself to at your destination point.
    Basically you can only time travel to points in time where you or some version of you exists, making time traveling outside the confines of your own lifespan effectively impossible, though you are free to jump back and forth all over the place as long as some form of you exists at the time you wish to arrive in.
    This is why Xehanort can't simply witness the Keyblade War by going back in time, he didn't exist yet when it happened, so he can't go there.

    The Timeless River is a bit of a special case, since Sora didn't exist yet at that point in time, however he was traveling with Donald and Goofy, who DID exist at that point, so Sora was pulled along, effectively circumventing the rules without anyone even realizing they did it.

    This exception is something that Xehanort can't use however, because the Keyblade War took place thousands of years ago there is literally nothing currently alive that was there when it happened.

    And that ends my explanation of KH Time Travel and the limitations it has
    Last edited by Mixt; 2012-07-25 at 08:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    I think i may be able to answer one of those questions at least.
    Thanks. 'cause I sure as sugar am wracking my brain trying to figure out half of this stuff...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    My understanding of it goes rougly like this.
    In the primary Timeline, henceforth refered to as Timeline A, shortly after becoming a Heartless "Ansem" gives up his physical form in order to be able to travel through time, so he goes back and arrives in Timeline B, where he recruits Young Master Xehanort and grants him the power of time travel as well, then he travels back to Timeline A and possesses Riku, eventually leading to his defeat at Sora's hands in the first game.
    The events leading up to Xemnas's demise follows.
    So, Xehanort's Heartless (and he should be called as such, just because how many people have used Ansem's name now?) showed up as that brown-hooded dude because he had no physical form... and he gave his younger self the ability to time travel, then went back and the rest of the story goes on.

    That's easy enough. ... in theory. Although Timeline A and Timeline B is going to just make my head hurt.... ****, this is just like the Dragon Ball Z time line junk.... It's not Time Travel so much as Dimension Travel, then...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    When both "Ansem" and Xemnas have been destroyed, thus starting the process of reforming the original Xehanort,
    Why did it reform him as his Older self, ala before stealing Terra's body? And what happened to said body then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Young Xehanort goes to timeline C and recruits that Timelines versions of "Ansem" and Xemnas at some point prior to their defeat.
    ... what happens to the entire world of Timeline C without a Xemnas or XH? And why wouldn't that part of the multiverse have a Young Master Xehanort?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Since even small changes in events can cause the timeline to split, this "Ansem" and Xemnas have basically the same memories and experiences as the ones from Timeline A despite actually not being them.
    .... this I have absolutely no idea of what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Result: "Ansem" and Xemnas manages to Co-Exist with the original Master Xehanort. Thanks a lot, Young Xehanort, or should i say...Trollanort?
    Okay... Headcount time.

    From World A,
    XH: Destroyed.
    Xemnas: Destroyed.
    Master Xehanort: Revived due to the destruction of the previous two.
    Young Xehanort: Doesn't exist.

    From World B,
    XH: Doesn't exist.
    Xemnas: Doesn't exist.
    Master Xehanort: Doesn't exist.
    Young Xehanort: Recruited to World A.

    And from World C,
    XH: Recruited to World A.
    Xemnas: Recruited to World A.
    Master Xehanort: Doesn't exist.
    Young Xehanort: Doesn't exist.

    How far off am I?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Also, now for some Fridge Logic.
    The most interesting kind of logic, though mine is more Loo based than Fridge.

    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Xehanort is a chess master, if his plot to create the X-Blade had succeeded, how exactly would he have controlled Vanitas, seeing as how Vanitas would be the one with the X-Blade. He must have had some way to ensure there wouldn't be any betrayals.
    It didn't seem like he was too worried about betrayel, considering how he had manipulated everyone, even those working against him, into doing exactly what he wanted....

    Besides, he did force Terra to extract Princess Aurora's Heart, which demonstrates the easy ability to manipulate someone weaker than him; I bet he's probably stronger than Vanitas is, even with the X-Blade.

    Also, thank -GOD- we aren't doing this verbally. The KeyBlade-ChiBlade nonsense was ridiculous to hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    It turns out that having yellow eyes is not actually a sign or darkness corruption as originally believed, it's actually a sign that you are being influenced by Xehanort. Which explains Xigbar and Saix having yellow eyes when the rest of the Organization didn't, turns out they were already partially possessed.
    I'm not completely sure about that. Terra wasn't ever dirrectly possessed by Xehanort until after the final battle with him at the Keyblade Graveyard, and he was still shown (at least in the super epic cutscene at the end of KHIIFM) with the same Yellow Eyes of Darkness.... and Sora was being actively corrupted by the Second Organisation in Days, yet his eyes never changed colors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Vanitas is a being of pure darkness, and has yellow eyes, even though it turns out that yellow eyes has nothing to do with darkness...
    Assuming you ignore the -stupid- as heck retcon about his existance in the novels... although if you do, your theory is strengthened a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    ...Vanitas shows up briefly alongside Young Xehanort in Notre Dame to taunt Sora

    ...Aww crap!
    Still a pretty good chance Vanitas was enjoying every time Sora went into Anti-Form.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Considering just what the X means, no, not funny.
    Spoiler
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    Xehanort, don't you dare try to turn me into another you! I am not your property!
    Hey, you chose it for yourself. Not to mention for all of those that weren't in line with it, it just seemed to be the monkier for a nobody... Your online profile is your nobody! And you're a heartless!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    So aparently i am waaaaay behind. Could someone catch me up here, the last game i played was For the PSP. When did
    Spoiler
    Show
    Time Travel
    Happen?
    You're probably about on schedule with most of the public. It wasn't until the DS and 3DS titles that **** started getting complicated.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    It first showed up in Timeless River in Kingdom Hearts 2, though that incident had nothing to do with this other than to establish that it's possible.
    Not to mention it wasn't nearly as troublesome to the plot... other than that the Cornerstone of Light was supposed to be able to ward away Maleficent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    It's next appearance was during the hidden bonus boss battle against the Mysterious Figure (Now known as Young Xehanort) in Birth By Sleep for the PSP where he would sometimes rewind time a few seconds when you hit him, thus undoing the damage, and then use his knowledge of what you are going to do to dodge before the attack can hit him again.
    Someone wanted to -swear- it was Luxord (because of the Time Powers) or Saix (because of his in game model). And I swear I saw some (obviously a very poor fanfic writer) claims that it was
    Spoiler
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    Sora and Kairi's child, from the future sent into the past....


    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Basically, he was using time travel to heal himself and dodge your attacks, the cheap bastard.

    This is also the guy who can 1-hit kill you even when you have a full health bar, has ridiculously long combos, a block move that heals a full health bar, can turn invisible so you can't target him, blows your commands out of your menu so you can't use them and uses doom to kill you instantly if you can't escape the bindings in time.
    Don't forget Colission Magnet. Lets him be able to combo-kill you even when you have defenses that specifically prevent combo-killing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    And now in Dream Drop Distance it shows up again, where it's revealed that jumping back and forth between Timelines and different points in time to recruit 13 different incarnations of himself in order to form a new Organization XIII is a vital part of Xehanort's plans.
    I'm still sorta stumped on where he's going to pull the rest of his second Organization out from his butt... maybe the other members of the first that we haven't seen come back yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Also, near the end off the game during the boss battle against Young Xehanort, when you defeat him he uses time travel to restart the battle, forcing you to fight him again, and when you defeat him again, he rewinds time AGAIN, and so on ad infinitum, restarting the boss battle every time you beat him unless you use a Reality Shift (AKA Minor Reality Warping, due to dreams being malleable and them currently being in a dreamscape) to stop him from doing so, basically smashing the rewinding clock to pieces so that he can't restart the battle, so the second part of the battle has you on a time limit to break his time travel attempt before he can rewind. If you pull that off you win the battle.
    The guy is called Trollanort by fans for a reason.
    "Think you beat me? Think again!" *Rewinds time to the start of the battle*
    That reminds me; they don't actually go to any real in game location during their travels, right? They're just in the Realm of Sleep, trying to bring back the worlds that haven't fully awakened when the hearts of the worlds were returned, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Now, for how time travel works in the Kingdom Hearts universe.
    In order to travel through time you need something to anchor yourself to at your destination point.
    Basically you can only time travel to points in time where you or some version of you exists, making time traveling outside the confines of your own lifespan effectively impossible, though you are free to jump back and forth all over the place as long as some form of you exists at the time you wish to arrive in.
    This is why Xehanort can't simply witness the Keyblade War by going back in time, he didn't exist yet when it happened, so he can't go there.
    What's he supposed to gain from the Keyblade War again? Pretty sure he's doing all of this for laughs at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    The Timeless River is a bit of a special case, since Sora didn't exist yet at that point in time, however he was traveling with Donald and Goofy, who DID exist at that point, so Sora was pulled along, effectively circumventing the rules without anyone even realizing they did it.
    I thought it was just because Merlin used his magic to make a portal back to the Timeless River, after Pete somehow summoned one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    This exception is something that Xehanort can't use however, because the Keyblade War took place thousands of years ago there is literally nothing currently alive that was there when it happened.
    Kingdom Hearts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    And that ends my explanation of KH Time Travel and the limitations it has
    Thank you, professor.

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    found this hilarious plot summary of kindom hearts link

    Also KH 3d getting some good reviews. I got 5 days left till i pick my copy up.

    BTW it just hit me if sora save namine and xion. and namine is kairi's nobody and xion is memories of what kairi is like. we have just cloned kairi twice! i wonder how confusing that would be. wonder who sora would choose?
    Last edited by Illieas; 2012-07-26 at 03:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Illieas View Post
    found this hilarious plot summary of kindom hearts link
    That's above hilarious; that's -informative-!

    At least until 3DS, which is when **** gets -beyond- complicated.... to be honest, I understood absolutely everything said in the summary with no questions... it's litterally when 3DS comes in that the plot switches to Cylon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Illieas View Post
    Also KH 3d getting some good reviews. I got 5 days left till i pick my copy up.
    The Wall Jumping alone would probably have me playing for hours.. just jumping of walls like freaking Spiderman....

    Quote Originally Posted by Illieas View Post
    BTW it just hit me if sora save namine and xion. and namine is kairi's nobody and xion is memories of what kairi is like. we have just cloned kairi twice! i wonder how confusing that would be. wonder who sora would choose?
    Xion's probably not coming back. She's a part of Sora that wasn't supposed to have manifested her own being. And Namine and Roxas need to learn to play nice as full beings part of Kairi and Sora respectively.

    Alternatively, Sora gets Kairi, Roxas gets Namine, and Lea gets Xion. And everyone's happy.

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Illieas View Post
    found this hilarious plot summary of kindom hearts link
    Its funny, and it accurately describes the plot. Sure, there's a little less details about the journal (coded), but other than that, not bad.
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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    Its funny, and it accurately describes the plot. Sure, there's a little less details about the journal (coded), but other than that, not bad.
    Exactly how much did Coded really bring to the story? That's the one game I haven't played yet...

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Well, it didn't add too much. But it does show a bit more on data constructs, like just becauses something is made of data doesn't mean it can't be real, to a degree.

    It has confirmation of where Ven is, and that Master Xehanort is returning, the whole destroy heartless and nobody and the orignal is returns. And it explains what Malificent was after during her time in BBS.
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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    Well, it didn't add too much. But it does show a bit more on data constructs, like just becauses something is made of data doesn't mean it can't be real, to a degree.

    It has confirmation of where Ven is, and that Master Xehanort is returning, the whole destroy heartless and nobody and the orignal is returns. And it explains what Malificent was after during her time in BBS.
    Okay, I'll give you Xehanort's return being an important plot point, that's one thing it does teach... but I think that was only really in the secret ending, right?

    Speaking of which, how many Keyblades are we up to now? Sora, Master Riku, King Mickey, Lea, and Kairi... if they recruit Aqua, find Ventus again, and possibly find Terra's body and fix him up.... not to mention Eraqus is in there -somewhere-....

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    I think Yen Sid still has a keyblade, he just has never used it on screen. So, currently they have six, and could get four more, which makes ten.
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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantom View Post
    I think Yen Sid still has a keyblade, he just has never used it on screen. So, currently they have six, and could get four more, which makes ten.
    See, I could -NEVER- imagine Yen Sid fighting. He looks like he's destined to stay behind that chair... even when he was attacked, he was just chillin' on his throne as Sora fought the Heartless...

    I'm still trying to figure out how and why Xehanort came back in his old body, and what that means for Terra and Eraqus...

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    I'm honestly shocked that when you take Disney, with their usually pretty simple stories, and Final Fantasy which can sometimes get a little complex, you get a crazy mess that makes no sense. Halfway into KH2 I decided I didn't need to hear the most convoluted way possible to explain how friendship conquers all.
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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kjata View Post
    I'm honestly shocked that when you take Disney, with their usually pretty simple stories, and Final Fantasy which can sometimes get a little complex, you get a crazy mess that makes no sense. Halfway into KH2 I decided I didn't need to hear the most convoluted way possible to explain how friendship conquers all.
    ..... I should go back and play Final Fantasy games, because I can't remember half of those plots ever making sense to me as a kid.

    As for Disney, I heard it was because of them (and Square, to be fair) that everything's gotten so complicated. The plot wasn't supposed to be this long when first concieved, apparently, but the success of the series had two large companies pressuring for more for the money, and so it had to be continued... but that's just a rumor, as far as I know.

    And the plot of Kingdom Hearts goes -quite- a bit beyond just friendship.... have you kept playing and just skipped the information that wasn't playable, or did you decide to just stop at KH2? 'cause it wasn't ever really that simple and straight forward.

    Really, the series.. while not being -perfectly- straight forward, did make sense, at least within it's own universe. Then 3DS came out, and Time Travel, and I had to be lectured on what the hell was going on with the big bad. And there are -still- things I don't get about it.

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    I just got Dream Drop Distance... and I have to wait to play it because my 3DS's shoulder button isn't working, so I can't really lock on.

    I will say that the jumping off of walls function is, however, awesome as heck...

    Anyone else have this game, and how far have you gotten yet?

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Well, i just cleared the game and it appears i have been operating on false information.
    Kindly disregard what i said earlier.
    You see for yourselves when you get there.

    Also, for some reason i find it kind of funny that one of the bosses near the end is called the "Anti-Black Coat"

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixt View Post
    Well, i just cleared the game and it appears i have been operating on false information.
    Kindly disregard what i said earlier.
    You see for yourselves when you get there.
    ..... so everything I thought I knew is a lie, everything I learned is a lie, and I've still got no idea what the heck is going on, and won't know until I get my 3DS fixed.....

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    quick question is there a special ending if you do proud mode? or can i just do standard and get everything
    for the 3ds version

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    Quote Originally Posted by Illieas View Post
    quick question is there a special ending if you do proud mode? or can i just do standard and get everything
    for the 3ds version
    I'm pretty sure you could do either or, but that it's easier to unlock it in Proud Mode. Though, to be safe, you might want to stick to the higher level difficulty, just to be sure.

    Edit: A little research says there isn't a difference, other than needing 2 less trophies, between unlocking it in Normal or Proud. You have to clear a certain minigame to unlock another minigame, both being at the very end of the game, before you unlock the secret ending.
    Last edited by INoKnowNames; 2012-08-02 at 04:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Kingdom Hearts Thread [Forewarned: Spoilers]

    So guys.

    Wreck-it Ralph as a Kingdom Hearts world. Discuss.
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