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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizard Lord's Avatar

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    Default Will Save World for Gold

    Thread for this comic.
    The old seems to have died. I am making new one, to ask a question due to my lack of 4e knowledge. Spoiled for anyone that hasn't read the current page.
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    Does 4e follow the -10hp=dead and -9 through -1=bleeding to death rules. If so I believe Odivallus is dead.

    There is little ghost effect but the math adds up. He was unconscious and bleeding to death. With the above rules that means he had, at most, -1hp. He was then healed for 10, putting at a max of 9 hp. The dragon fell on him for 22, putting him at a max of -13 hp.

    My next question is then, can a level 2 or 3 character bring someone back from the dead in 4e? I doubt it, but just want to check.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    In 4e, you can go half your max hp into the negatives before you die. He's badly hurt, but not necessarily dead.
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

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    No and no; 4e makes it relatively difficult to kill PCs via HP damage. The 'dying' threshold is from 0 to their negative bloodied value, or half of their maximum HP. Depending on Odivallus's Con score he should be able to go to.. I'd guess probably around -15? 'Bleeding to death' doesn't work the same way, either; instead of losing further HP, you begin making death saves- if you fail 3 of those before succeeding one or receiving treatment, you die. Generally this means character deaths either happen in multiples or they don't happen, because it's pretty easy to save a dying character.. so either monsters are being especially brutal and deliberately executing downed characters with further focus fire, everybody who could heal the downed characters also is down, or the downed people get picked up in routine post-battle care. Odivallus will fall in that third category- he's down, but has not even begun rolling those death saves, and there aren't any other monsters around to prevent the rest of his party from helping him.

    (Exception to above: Characters who go down in the area of a continuing damage effect/monster's aura/other thing that contributes damage without requiring any particular focus or action. Those can eat downed characters quite efficiently.)

    As for raising dead, being able to do it on a combat-relevant timeframe (ie, 1 standard action) is a very high-level thing. But out of combat ressing is fairly available; it's a relatively low-level and inexpensive ritual, IIRC. None of the party probably know how to do it (especially because Odivallus is the one most likely to have the requisite feat to do Rituals in the first place), but they could pretty readily afford to hire somebody else to do it.

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Is anyone else at the point were there so sick of Ardon that not only would they out and out refuse to be playing with someone who was running a character like this, but there preparing to stop reading the comic unless something happens that's really bad for him and either forces him to change as a character or just die?
    "I Burn!"

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    I am not sure I understand. We are suppose to hate Ardon. We are suppose to want something bad to happen to him, especially now that he has crossed the moral event horizon with the last page. That is the point. I personally hope that this causes Ell and Odivallus to feel they no longer owe Ardon anything and quit, taking Peanut with them of course.
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    This is the first time I've felt real hatred for Ardon, but I don't count that as a faux pas to the author. The fact that he can write a character whom I truly hate is something which many writers struggle with.

    I trust whatever resolution we'll see will make sense to the story and the character's reactions will be appropriate.
    Last edited by Sipex; 2012-07-30 at 03:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    I'm now actually hoping that the lawful stupid elf girl leader remains on the protagonist team rather than switching with Ardon again, and that Ardon becomes a recurring villain…...
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    I dunno. Honestly, I'd guess Ardon is bluffing. Yes, he's self-centered, amoral, greedy, obnoxious and an all around terrible person, but twice now he's shown some degree of genuine caring for his team. I find myself unable to hate him over this latest travesty, not that I'm at a lack for other reasons, because if he isn't bluffing than I'd consider it entirely out of character for him.

    And although I fully expect him to get chewed out for this, a large part of the arc has been devoted to showing that he is a very efficient leader despite his glaring faults and in some ways because of them. I don't like him, but I'm not about to stop reading the strip cause of him either.
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    So this is another catch 22, while the terms of the bet have Ardon labelled as the 'better leader', Chandea showed some really solid leadership qualities by assessing the situation, listening to her team and making the right choice based on the risk.

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Yes, Sipex, again another reason why I think Chandea should stay with our protagonist team, rather than Ardon.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    I hope Ardon stays and not Chandea. Ardon is great, and has been a consistent source of amusement. Chandea is honestly pretty bland by comparison.
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Actually, Ardon's at the point were to me he feels like the authors Mary Sue who get's to do every bad thing the author ever had an impulse to do in or out of character in his life, and never, ever, ever get's stuck with meaningful consequences he can't wiggle his way out of, and who is constantly able to twist the wording of everything to his favor even if it was specifically written against him.

    I actually know one two many people like that IRL, and as far as I'm concerned the human race would be that much better off if they should all have a heart attack.
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdEmperor View Post
    And although I fully expect him to get chewed out for this, a large part of the arc has been devoted to showing that he is a very efficient leader despite his glaring faults and in some ways because of them. I don't like him, but I'm not about to stop reading the strip cause of him either.
    Ardon might be a better strategist and a tactician (even that is debatable after today's comic), but he is certainly not a leader.
    He is far more concerned about his own ego, and I just don't see why the other members of the team should follow his lead.

    Forget about Chandra, what can Ardon offer that will be worth staying with him?

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    Ardon might be a better strategist and a tactician (even that is debatable after today's comic), but he is certainly not a leader.
    He is far more concerned about his own ego, and I just don't see why the other members of the team should follow his lead.

    Forget about Chandra, what can Ardon offer that will be worth staying with him?
    I'd say his revenge scheme with the opera chick is good enough reason to keep him around. You never know when you might need a scheming evil bastard to take care of your dirty work.


    Though I will say today's update surprised me. I didn't expect his entire party to be dead. Wonder how this is going to play out.
    Last edited by Seerow; 2012-08-01 at 12:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    ...

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    Welp.
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Yea…..

    …..I wouldn't call a guy who gets his party killed a leader….
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    I actually know one two many people like that IRL, and as far as I'm concerned the human race would be that much better off if they should all have a heart attack.
    Heh. I've had a sneaking suspicion that the creator is a psychopath, or at least is morally blind. There have been a few hints here and there. However, it could be that the writer is intentionally portraying a psychopath, their methods, and their effects on others.

    Either way, I still find the comic engaging and enjoyable. I didn't care for the farm-animals chapter, but it's picked up since then.

    When it comes to Ardon, I hate him, but I love to hate him, which may be the point. If I were a character in the party, I would have killed him a long time ago, but eh. Great comic.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    I think Ardon had the party he was with get into as many fight as possible to get more XP out of the dungeon(grinding) not only for Xp but the other groups surges.
    He did this to stop his rival in Chandra from coming back and ruining there jobs. It also establishes he is far more effective as a leader.

    Also I hate 45... I want him to die he is the one character I hate
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Well, that was unexpected.

    Although it's perfect grounds for Chandea to become a recurring antagonist.

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I'd say his revenge scheme with the opera chick is good enough reason to keep him around. You never know when you might need a scheming evil bastard to take care of your dirty work.
    A scheming bastard might be useful to keep around, but not as the leader of the group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Yea…..

    …..I wouldn't call a guy who gets his party killed a leader….
    That might also be a result of luck since the encounters were random.

    However, consider this:
    Aradon had to physically pull two corpses (one of them was already decapitated) while a dragon was right in the next room, set everything up in, and all that just for a scheme to boost his own ego.
    This is no longer bad luck, that's a "WOW he's not a leader" badge...

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Seharvepernfan View Post
    When it comes to Ardon, I hate him, but I love to hate him, which may be the point.
    Ardon is just so beautifully hateable. An absolutely abhorrent creature, but a highly entertaining one when safely contained within the fictional world. Which is why I prefer him to Chandea. Chandea is annoying, but I don't enjoy being annoyed at her.
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    Aradon had to physically pull two corpses (one of them was already decapitated) while a dragon was right in the next room, set everything up in, and all that just for a scheme to boost his own ego.
    This is no longer bad luck, that's a "WOW he's not a leader" badge...
    Four corpses.

    The whole gang is there. Which makes me think the dragon let Ardon do that because he found it amusing or something.


    On the plus side Odivallus doesn't need to worry about competing with Stuart for Ell's affections.
    Last edited by Lizard Lord; 2012-08-01 at 12:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    A green dragon? Oh yeah, I could totally see it doing that just for the pure entertainment value.

    But how did Ardon get into the treasure chamber? The only thing I can think of is it let Ardon in, possibly under some guise that he'd be it's prisoner.

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    Four corpses.

    The whole gang is there. Which makes me think the dragon let Ardon do that because he found it amusing or something.


    On the plus side Odivallus doesn't need to worry about competing with Stuart for Ell's affections.
    I doubt the dragon just let him in.
    The only reason it was entertaining is because it was a tie, and it was a tie just because the dragon was killed.

    Besides, he killed four only to find it amusing to keep the last one alive?

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    It seems to be the only way to explain how Ardon dragged four humanoid corpses (three medium, one small) into a locked treasure room while in combat with a dragon. The dragon found it amusing to watch him do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    It seems to be the only way to explain how Ardon dragged four humanoid corpses (three medium, one small) into a locked treasure room while in combat with a dragon. The dragon found it amusing to watch him do it.
    It's also possible to simply run and hide, waiting for the dragon to search for him and get in the room.
    Task might be easier since at least in some cases it appears he took only clothes and not corpses.
    Either way, that's a lot of work basically for nothing other than to show he's the best for five seconds.

    I have a sneaky feeling that this entire contest was planned to be a disaster.
    I don't mean that Ardon planned on this exact result, but I suspect he thought this is a win win situation, something along the lines of "either I manage to finish off the other team, or prove that I'm a better leader".

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by random11 View Post
    I have a sneaky feeling that this entire contest was planned to be a disaster.
    I don't mean that Ardon planned on this exact result, but I suspect he thought this is a win win situation, something along the lines of "either I manage to finish off the other team, or prove that I'm a better leader".
    That sounds like Ardon all right.
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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Also sounds like a guy everyone else in that room will likely be better off long term unloading there most damaging encounter power on right that second in a surprise round.

    Also, there is the small matter of the fact that he actually accidentally admitted to killing them all himself in the second to last panel if you look closely at the grammar of the whole strip. That's all Chandea or Ell should need to be justified to waste him.

    And 45 should let him have it at that point cause guess what, it only happened cause everyone was jumping on him to take care of the fact that he murdered innocent people who trusted there lives to him and used there corpses for a bluff to win a contest that at that point he had lost in every meaningful sense of the word, and lost horribly at that, which ultimately only happened because of his own idiocy and Ego-mania. He'd probably throw Peanut at him two and get the hit in just because.
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Well, Ardon is already looking bad. I'm surprised he was so honest about the encounter though.

    Now, the thing is, if Ardon gets out of this (and he's a main character, I imagine he will) it'll be one of two ways:
    - He does something which makes up for his crap
    - He has an ace up his sleeve

    Knowing Ardon? Likely the latter.

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    Default Re: Will Save World for Gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Sipex View Post
    Well, Ardon is already looking bad. I'm surprised he was so honest about the encounter though.
    The thing is, however selfish his advice may have been, he did have a point. He was playing the odds, and doing it in a fairly sensible fashion. He just got unlucky with a surprise random crit from the monster.
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