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    Default Wander in the Lichyards [3.5e Full PrC]{PEACH}

    Undying Sovereign

    Ancient mages with safeguarded souls. Undying Sovereigns are masters of necromancy; commanding legions of the dead, draining strength with but a glance, and survive no matter the cost.

    GAME RULE INFORMATION
    Undying Sovereigns have the following game statistics.
    Abilities: Intelligence is very important to Undying Sovereigns, as it determines the strength of their abilities, and most of its skills are intelligence based. Dexterity is also useful because it will reduce your chance of being hit, which is very hazardous because of your health.
    Hit Die: d12

    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Template:
    Lich

    Class Skills
    The Undying Sovereignís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...
    Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Int) (All taken seperately), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Undying Sovereign
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Binding/Spellcasting

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Corpse's Grip, Grim Ritual|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Ancient Protection, Lich's Companion|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Grip of Terror, Rebuke Undead|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Rotting Legion, Tough Flesh +1|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Bonus Feat, Undying Defense 5/Bludgeon and Magic|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Fearsome Visage, Improved Ancient Protection|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Call of Undeath, Eternal Rest|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Focused Cunning, Tainted Flesh, Tough Flesh +2|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Bonus Feat, Fortified Phylactery|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Undying Defense 10/Bludgeon and Magic, Unnatural Strength|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    11th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Assimilate the Dead, Necromantic Binder|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    12th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Improved Fearsome Visage, Tough Flesh +3|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    13th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Bonus Feat, Soul Perception|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    14th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Improved Call of Undeath, Tethered Soul|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    15th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Undying Defense 15/Bludgeon and Magic|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    16th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Dominating Mind, Tough Flesh +4|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    17th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Anima Drain, Bonus Feat|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    18th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Phylactery Mastery|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    19th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Paragon Phylactery|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    20th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Archlich, Tough Flesh +5|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the Undying Sovereign.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Undying Sovereigns are not proficient with any weapons or armour.

    Binding: At each level is gained, the character gains Effective Binder Level as if he had also gained a level in a geotia spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of binding. If a character had more than one geotia spellcasting class before becoming an Undying Sovereign, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining EBL.

    Spellcasting: At each level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an Undying Sovereign, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

    Corpse's Grip (Su): An Undying Sovereign can spend a standard action to infuse his limbs with necromancy, inflicting paralysis with but a touch. When used, the Sovereign makes a touch attack on an adjacent creature. A creature that is hit by this touch attack is dealt 1d8 negative energy damage.

    In addition, any living creature a Sovereign hits with its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1 minute/Undying Sovereign level (DC 10 + Undying Sovereign Level + Intelligence Modifier). Remove paralysis or any spell that can remove a curse can free the victim (see the bestow curse spell description).

    The effect cannot be dispelled. Anyone paralyzed by a lich seems dead, though a DC 15 Spot check or a DC 10 Heal check reveals that the victim is still alive.

    Grim Ritual: As a master of Necromancy a Undying Sovereign can perform lasting necromantic rituals. An Undying Sovereign starts with knowledge of 3 Grim Rituals of his choice. Once performed, the effects of the ritual lasts for 1 year per Undying Sovereign level, but can be dismissed as an immediate action. Each Grim Ritual has a gp cost which must be paid during the ritual to enact.

    When performing the ritual he must make an Intelligence check (DC Determined by Grim Ritual). On a failed check, the gold and time are still expended despite the ritual failing.

    An Undying Sovereign can only have one Grim Ritual active at any time.

    At every Undying Servant Level divisible by five, he may select another Grim Ritual to learn.

    Ancient Protection (Ex): Upon reaching 2nd level, an Undying Sovereign's resistances grow stronger. His resistances to Cold and Electricity increase to 10. In addition he gains a +5 racial bonus on saves against polymorph affects.

    Upon reaching 6th level, he gains immunity to Cold and Electricity Damage and Polymorph effects, though they can use polymorph effects on themselves. This replaces the previous effects of Ancient Protection.

    Lich's Companion: At 2nd level, an Undying Sovereign gains a familiar as a Wizard. For the purposes of level, he is counted as a wizard of his Undying Sovereign level.

    If the Sovereign possess an Undying Minion, he may instead choose to count his Undying Sovereign levels as Necromaster levels for the purposes of the Undying Minion.

    Grip of Terror (Su): An Undying Sovereign of 3rd level can induce terror with a touch. When using the Corpse's Grip ability, once the touch attack succeeds against a living creature you may choose to forgo the fortitude save and instead subject the target to a will save (DC 10 + Undying Sovereign Level + Intelligence Modifier). Failure on this will save causes the target to become Frightened for 1 round/Undying Sovereign Level. This is a Fear Effect.

    Rebuke Undead (Su): At 3rd level, an Undying Sovereign can rebuke or command undead as a Cleric of his Undying Sovereign level. If the Undying Sovereign can already Rebuke Undead, his Undying Sovereign levels stack for the purposes of Rebuking Undead.

    Rotting Legion (Su): Upon attaining 4th level, an Undying Sovereign no longer counts undead with HD equal to or lower than half his class level towards his limit of controlled undead.

    Tough Flesh (Ex): As magic animates your body, it also strengthens it from attack. At 4th level an Undying Sovereign gains +1 bonus to Natural Armor. At 8th level and every four levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1.

    Bonus Feat: At 5th level and every four levels thereafter, the Undying Sovereign gains a Bonus Feat. The Sovereign must meet all the prerequistes of the feat and it must have one of the following descriptors: Divine, Item Crafting, Metamagic, or Monstrous.

    Undying Defense (Ex): At 5th level, an Undying Sovereign's body becomes strengethed by the negative energy within it. He gains Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeon and Magic.

    At 5th level and every 5 levels therafter, this damage reduction increase by 5 (Maximum 15/Bludgeon and Magic).

    Fearsome Visage (Su): At 6th level, Undying Sovereign's can emanate necromantic power. Creatures of less than 5 HD in a 60-foot radius that look at the Sovereign must succeed on a Will save or be shaken for while within the radius (DC 10 + Undying Sovereign Level + Intelligence Modifier). A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same Sovereignís aura for 24 hours.

    This aura can be dismissed or created as a swift action. This is a Fear Effect.

    At 12th level, this affects creatures of less than 10 HD.

    Call of Undeath (Sp): An Undying Sovereign of 7th level can cast Animate Dead as a Spell-Like Ability. This can be used a number of times per day equal to 5 plus your Intelligence modifier. The caster level of this ability is equal to your Undying Sovereign level.

    At 14th level, he can cast Create Undead as a Spell-Like Ability. This can be used a number of times per day equal to 3 plus your Intelligence modifier. The caster level of this ability is equal to your Undying Sovereign level.


    Eternal Rest (Su): At 7th level, an Undying Sovereign can send a soul to the Anima or deity in return for power. To sacrifice a soul in this way, it must be with a Phylactery and the creature cannot have HD above his Undying Sovereign level - 5.

    This destroys the soul and grants the Undying Sovereign a +2 bonus to Strength or Dexterity for 1 hour per HD of the soul. This effectively destroys the soul, but the Phylactery remains unharmed. If this ability is used again while it is effects are still going, the previous effect is dismissed.

    Focused Cunning (Ex): At 8th level an Undying Sovereign may use Intelligence as the Key Ability for the Concentration skill, instead of constitution.

    Tainted Flesh (Su): An Undying Sovereign of 8th level or higher's gains greater understanding towards the effects of negative energy upon the living. The Undying Sovereign gains Mother's Cyst as a bonus feat, despite physically lacking the cyst.

    Fortified Phylactery (Ex): The Phylactery of the Undying Sovereign slowly becomes fortified as it chambers your soul. At 9th level, your Phylactery gains additional hardness and hit points equal to double your Undying Sovereign level.

    At 19th level, the your Phylactery gains additional hardness and hit points equal to triple your Undying Sovereign level.

    Unnatural Strength (Ex): Upon reaching 10th level, the Undying Sovereign gains unnatural strength, a gift from his undead nature. He gains a slam attack (two if large size or larger), this slam attack's damage is based on his size.


    Assimilate the Dead (Su): Upon reaching 11th level, an Undying Sovereign that is within his phylactery may choose to enter possess a corpse within 60 feet as a full-round action rather than forming a new one. This immediately warps the corpse into the Sovereign's body.

    Necromantic Binder (Su): An Undying Sovereign of 11th level or higher's gains greater understanding towards the effects of negative energy upon souls. The Undying Sovereign gains Necromantic Binder as a bonus feat.

    Soul Perception (Sp): At 13th level and above, an Undying Sovereign can expend a standard action to view souls. This functions as the Deathwatch spell. This ability has a caster level of 12 and can be dismissed as a free action.

    Teathered Soul (Su): As the Undying Sovereign's soul is tied to his Phylactery it swiftly grows attached. At 14th level, the Undying Sovereign gains immunity to soul moving effects.

    Dominating Mind (Sp): An Undying Sovereign's mind is powerful, and can even possess the weak. Upon attaining 16th level, the Undying Sovereign can cast Magic Jar as a Spell-Like Ability. This functions as normal except that the Focus is your Phylactery. The Caster Level of this ability is equal to his class level.

    This can be used a number of times per day equal to 3 + Intelligence Modifier.

    Anima Drain (Su): When an Undying Sovereign of 17th level or above kills a creature with a touch attack (Such as Corpse's Grip), he may choose to try and place the soul within a phylactery. The Creature is granted a Will Save (DC 10 + half Undying Sovereign level) to negate this ability.
    He must have an empty phylactery in his possession and it must be attuned to the targets type, for this ability to be used.

    Phylactery Mastery (Ex): As the years pass, an Undying Sovereign slowly learns how to make phylacteries work more efficently. When an Undying Sovereign would use a Phylactery its effects are more powerful:
    Avatar: An Undying Sovereign with the Animation Receptacle can merge a Phylactery with the resulting construct or undead. This causes the soul to be in full control of the resulting reature body, except it will be loyal to you. This destroys the Phylactery, but the soul remains intact within the creature.
    Crafting: When crafting a magical item or casting a spell with an XP Cost, a Phylactery can be used to reduce the XP cost by 100 per HD of the soul within. This cannot reduce the XP Cost lower than zero.
    Pact: Can make a Binder's Pact with the creature within the Phylactery without requiring a Binding Circle, in addition this reduces the Base DC of the Pact by 5. The soul and phylactery remain undamaged.
    Recharge Arcana: A Binder can use the energy within a soul to recharge a magic item. This grants restores a number of charges to the magical item equal to 50 per Hit Dice. This can only be used on items with a limited number of charges.
    Return Soul: A Binder can return a soul to its body if it is within 1 mile. This destroys the Phylactery, but the soul is undamaged.
    Trade Good: A Phylactery can be sold for currency or an equivent trade. A Phylacteries value is equal to 200 gp per Hit Die of the soul. The Phylactery and Soul are unharmed.

    Archlich (Ex): Upon attaining 20th level, an Undying Sovereign reaches the pinnacle of his power. He may have three Grim Ritual's active at any time, gains a +5 bonus to Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. In addition he gains the following as At-Will Spell Like Abilities: Alter Self, Death Knell, Inflict Serious Wounds, Summon Undying Servant III. The caster level of these effects are 20 and DC is equal to 30 + Intelligence Modifier.

    Grim Rituals
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    Dark Minded
    Casting Time: 1 Hour
    Required Spell: Awaken Undead
    Gold Cost: 100 gp
    Base Power: Any Undead created by the Sovereign which would be mindless have an intelligence score of 2, and are loyal to the Undying Sovereign.

    5th Level Power: Any Undead created by the Undying Sovereign is automatically friendly to the Sovereign.

    10th Level Power: Any mindless Undead created by the Undying Sovereign is affected by Awaken Undead. Caster level 10.

    15th Level Power: Any Undead created by the Undying Sovereign gain a +4 bonus to Intelligence.

    Death's Grip
    Casting Time: 10 Minutes
    Required Spell: -
    Gold Cost: 50 gp
    Base Power: The Undying Sovereign deals an additional 1d8 negative damage with his Corpse's Grip.

    5th Level Power: Regains a point of Hit Points for each point of negative energy damage he deals with his Corpse's Grip.

    10th Level Power: The Undying Sovereign deals an additional 2d8 negative damage with his Corpse's Grip.

    15th Level Power: The Undying Sovereign deals an additional 4d8 negative damage with his Corpse's Grip.

    Feeble Touch
    Casting Time: 3 Hours
    Required Spell: Touch of Fatigue
    Gold Cost: 50 gp
    Base Power: When the Undying Sovereign uses his Corpse's Grip ability, be can choose drain stamina rather than granting paralysis. This functions as normal except the target is Fatigued for 1 minute/Undying Sovereign level rather than paralyzed.

    5th Level Power: Whenever the Undying Sovereign causes a creature to become Fatigued or Exhausted through use of class abilities, magic items, or spells, he gains 1d12 temporary hit points. These hit points last 1 hour.

    10th Level Power: When using Corpse's Grip to drain stamina from a creature, they are Exhausted rather than Fatigued.

    15th Level Power: When the Undying Sovereign uses his Fearsome Visage ability, be can choose drain stamina rather than inspiring fear. This functions as normal except the targets is Exhausted rather than Shaken.

    Pale Imitation
    Casting Time: 10 Minutes
    Required Spell: Gentle Repose
    Gold Cost: 50 gp
    Base Power: The Undying Sovereign does not rot while this ritual is active. In addition it imitates life; blood flows, his heart pumps, he sweats, he salivates, etc.

    5th Level Power: The Undying Sovereign can cast Gentle Repose as a free action. This functions as a Spell-Like ability and has a Caster Level of 10. This can be used at-will.

    10th Level Power: Undead controlled by the Undying Sovereign do not rot.

    15th Level Power: The Undying Sovereign can cast Shatter as a free action. This functions as a Spell-Like ability and has a Caster Level of 10. This can be used at-will. This can only be used on corpses.

    Rotting Aura
    Casting Time: 10 Minutes
    Required Spell: Fear
    Gold Cost: 50 gp
    Base Power: The DC to resist the Fear Effects of the Undying Sovereign are increased by 5.

    5th Level Power: Animals and plants will not willing enter within 30 feet of you. This can be supressed and reactived as a free action.

    10th Level Power: The radius of Fearsome Visage is increased to 120 ft.

    15th Level Power: Fearsome Visage affects creatures with a HD Lower than his Undying Sovereign level.

    True Necromancy
    Casting Time: 3 Hours
    Required Spell: Speak With Dead
    Gold Cost: 50 gp
    Base Power: The Undying Sovereign can cast Speak with Deadas a free action. This functions as a Spell-Like ability and has a Caster Level of 5. This can be used at-will. This functions as the spell, except that it only allows communication with corpses of animals.

    5th Level Power: The Undying Sovereign can cast Speak with Dead as a free action. This functions as a Spell-Like ability and has a Caster Level of 5. This can be used at-will.

    10th Level Power: The Undying Sovereign can cast Communeas a free action. This functions as a Spell-Like ability and has a Caster Level of 10. This can be used at-will. This functions as the spell, except that it only allows communication with the soul of a touched corpse.

    15th Level Power: The Undying Sovereign can cast Augury as a free action. This functions as a Spell-Like ability and has a Caster Level of 15. This can be used at-will. This functions as the spell, except that you must be in contact with a recent corpse to cast it.
    Last edited by Milo v3; 2012-10-16 at 06:46 AM.
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    Default Re: Wander in the Lichyards [3.5e Full PrC]{PEACH}

    Okay this is ready for PEACHing but I still have a few Grim Rituals to add. Also if anyone has ideas for Grim Ritual's please say them.
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    Default Re: Wander in the Lichyards [3.5e Full PrC]{PEACH}

    Well, this is probably the longest prestige class in the game and it's interesting because it's technically an epic class as well. I'm not talking about the +4 LA of lich putting you into ECL 24 by the end. I'm talking about how being a lich requires 11 or 12 levels (I forget which) of being a spellcaster before you get that LA and can START taking levels in this class.

    While that's not necessarily a bad thing, it makes the BAB/Saving Throws look really weird because BAB and Saving Throws scale differently at epic levels. By the time that someone reaches level 20 of this class, it is guaranteed that they will have stopped following the advancement table long ago so even continuing the advancement table that far for BAB/Saving Throws looks weird and kind of pointless. This is why there has only ever been one PrC that needs to climb into epic levels (and even that may have been more of a miscalculation).

    Personally, I would fix this problem by simply letting the Sovereign switch old class levels for more sovereign levels (kind of like the blackguard) and simply giving the Sovereign a choice of spellcasting or binding as actual class features. In that way, experiencing the class becomes more practical.

    Edit: I now see that we refer to different liches.
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2012-07-25 at 02:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Wander in the Lichyards [3.5e Full PrC]{PEACH}

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    This is why there has only ever been one PrC that needs to climb into epic levels (and even that may have been more of a miscalculation).
    I suppose Realms is talking about the True Necromancer, a 14 levels PrC that most people can't take before level 8 (the class needs a 3rd level divine spell and a 2nd level profane spell). However gestalt characters (and those with a certain feat from Complete Arcana) can take the last level of the PrC at level 19 or 20 (respectively).

    Assuming it's the lich template from the SRD, the highest level of this PrC you can take before epic is 9, except if you have 11 racial spellcasting levels (but then, I ask how you become a lich because you are for sure a dragon).

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    Default Re: Wander in the Lichyards [3.5e Full PrC]{PEACH}

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    Well, this is probably the longest prestige class in the game and it's interesting because it's technically an epic class as well. I'm not talking about the +4 LA of lich putting you into ECL 24 by the end. I'm talking about how being a lich requires 11 or 12 levels (I forget which) of being a spellcaster before you get that LA and can START taking levels in this class.
    Yeah. Every PrC I make is 20 levels long, which is why I call them Full PrC's. Also for what levels you can start this PrC, normally you would have to be level 9. If you use scrolls you could enter around level 6. If you use cheese you could get this class at level 3 (4 technically because of LA). If your DM lets you start as an Lich you can get this at level one (2 technically because of LA).

    While that's not necessarily a bad thing, it makes the BAB/Saving Throws look really weird because BAB and Saving Throws scale differently at epic levels. By the time that someone reaches level 20 of this class, it is guaranteed that they will have stopped following the advancement table long ago so even continuing the advancement table that far for BAB/Saving Throws looks weird and kind of pointless.
    I wanted to make sure that each level still had Advancement.

    Some people might be allowed to start as lich, wouldn't do it because of spells
    This is true with normal lichs and mine, but regardless some might start at level 2.

    This is why there has only ever been one PrC that needs to climb into epic levels (and even that may have been more of a miscalculation).
    This is my 4th Full Prestige Class.

    Personally, I would fix this problem by simply letting the Sovereign switch old class levels for more sovereign levels (kind of like the blackguard) and simply giving the Sovereign a choice of spellcasting or binding as actual class features. In that way, experiencing the class becomes more practical.
    Interesting idea for the replacing levels. But I don't think the person should choose between Spellcasting or Binding. Also just for reference, that Binding isn't normal either. Its my Soul Weaver Projects Binding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Assuming it's the lich template from the SRD, the highest level of this PrC you can take before epic is 9, except if you have 11 racial spellcasting levels (but then, I ask how you become a lich because you are for sure a dragon).
    This isn't the normal lich, follow the link.
    Also, for the Homebrew Lich linked, Dragons can become liches.
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    Default Re: Wander in the Lichyards [3.5e Full PrC]{PEACH}

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    Yeah. Every PrC I make is 20 levels long, which is why I call them Full PrC's.
    After looking through the Full PrC's you've made so far, I have only one more question about these classes, something that doesn't seem to have been addressed in the other threads.

    Why aren't these base classes? Looking at them, most of them are already pretty much base classes with prerequisites and most prerequisites can be met (albeit with cheese) within 2 levels of characte creation. As those prerequisites are the only thing separating this from a normal base class and they tend toward the simple, why even have them in the first place?

    If you're concerned about putting a racial prerequisite on base classes, here's another example of one that was done quite recently. If you're concerned about the lich/vampire LA, you can simply rewrite them as normal races similar to the Dragonborn (keeping the size/speed/ability modifiers of the original race but replacing racial traits with brand new ones).

    None of your classes seem too prestigious or narrow to work as normal base classes (I have myself made classes based around regressing one's body and mind towards the primordial state of the ancient multiverse, playing as a disease that controls vectors like living puppets, and playing as a mage who likes explosive runes WAY too much) and ascension to lichdom is already an explored theme in the dread necromancer as well as many homebrew necromancers.

    Furthermore, making them base classes would kind of smooth everything out in several aesthetic senses. You would know exactly when players would be able to start using the class (level 1) instead of coming up with 3 estimates, wouldn't need the frequent progress-halting abilities at level 10, and would have the class completed at a traditionally significant time in a character's development rather than at a random epic level determined by how much cheese a player got away with. Also, as mentioned in my previous post, you'd be eliminating the chunk of the class table that effectively doesn't do anything right now over 90% of the time.

    If these Full PrCs were made because they seemed like a cool idea or appeal to your own design aesthetics, I won't ask any more on this topic (everyone has their own opinions, after all). With that said, I am genuinely interested to hear the philosophy behind the concept if it's the type of thing that can be put into words.
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2012-07-25 at 06:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Wander in the Lichyards [3.5e Full PrC]{PEACH}

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    After looking through the Full PrC's you've made so far, I have only one more question about these classes, something that doesn't seem to have been addressed in the other threads.

    Why aren't these base classes? Looking at them, most of them are already pretty much base classes with prerequisites and most prerequisites can be met (albeit with cheese) within 2 levels of characte creation. As those prerequisites are the only thing separating this from a normal base class and they tend toward the simple, why even have them in the first place?
    After writing a huge chunk of reasons, I accidently clicked the wrong thing and lost it all. I'll just have no give a short summary on my intentions.

    Basically it is that most of the Full PrC's are support based. On there own, its abilities are rather weak and likely tier 4 at the most. The only one which doesn't require support from existing abilities, is the Disciple of the Noble blood, which has higher prerequistes and has good synergy with socerers.

    By making them Prestige classes, it allows the base classes to continue their abilities while being able to gain focus in the PrC. 20 levels grants the character to gain levels in the class whenever required rather than forcing them to stop at 5 or 10 levels. Meaning that they can choose to continue there progression of the PrC regardless of level.

    Also I'm fine with Race Specific Base Classes, an example being my Spider Blood Assassin.
    Last edited by Milo v3; 2012-07-25 at 08:32 PM.
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    Default Re: Wander in the Lichyards [3.5e Full PrC]{PEACH}

    Quote Originally Posted by Milo v3 View Post
    After writing a huge chunk of reasons, I accidently clicked the wrong thing and lost it all. I'll just have no give a short summary on my intentions.

    Basically it is that most of the Full PrC's are support based. On there own, its abilities are rather weak and likely tier 4 at the most. The only one which doesn't require support from existing abilities, is the Disciple of the Noble blood, which has higher prerequistes and has good synergy with socerers.

    By making them Prestige classes, it allows the base classes to continue their abilities while being able to gain focus in the PrC. 20 levels grants the character to gain levels in the class whenever required rather than forcing them to stop at 5 or 10 levels. Meaning that they can choose to continue there progression of the PrC regardless of level.
    Well, I think that you've won me over to the idea. I was going to suggest giving these classes full casting of their own (thus letting them stand on their own) but I realized that would take away the adaptability of the class (basing it on cleric vs. wizard vs. duskblade vs. druid spellcasting, for example). I would suggest that you just let this class choose one form of spellcasting at 1st level and develop as a member of that class at an equal level but I realized that this would kind of cheapen all of those base classes. Hell, I was even going to suggest making these into character archetypes for existing classes (trade all noncasting abilities for special lich abilities) but I realized that archetypes are usually class-specific. Weird though these classes may seem to me, they are the only way to accomplish what you're going for.

    With that said, there is only one real suggestion I'd make to the class as a whole. Namely, I'd give it some meaningful prerequisite, something to firmly cement when the class begins instead of a "see how much cheese you can use" approach. If it's something general like a minimum HD or even a minimum ECL, it would allow builds from any origin to take the class while allowing you to gain a firm grip on what levels fall firmly into epic (even allowing you to make a "practical capstone" for 20th level before the real capstone if you feel like it).

    As things are right now, I don't know if it's possible to call a class balanced when there's a 4 or 5 level disparity between early entry and normal entry. Either the abilities are perfect for normal entry and are a bit too much for early entry or they're for early entry and seem especially weak for those who enter normally. While it seems that you're aiming for early entry, I'd personally recommend setting the pre-reqs of either this class or of the lich template so that someone can only enter this class by the time they'd be able to become a Lich without scrolls or early-entrance shenanigans (whether this means delaying the PrC or making Lichdom easier is up to you, of course). Otherwise, it kind of feels like you're punishing players who want to "play fair" by forcing them to wait longer and likely making them get less of the class experience.
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