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  1. - Top - End - #571
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    So far as the Tyrant's fear based abilities go, I can see him goading/intimidating his allies into taking additional actions, shaking off/disregarding conditions, especially mind-affecting ones, and even staving off the reaper for a turn or until their final orders are complete per the frenzied berserker, fearing the scorn of their master more than death itself.

  2. - Top - End - #572
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Okay, posted in PbP forum. Huzzah!
    Grrr. Arrrgh.
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    Awwwwww, that's just... Well, I did warn you.

  3. - Top - End - #573
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Hey gnorman, there's some of the archetypes that are missing abilities.

    Namely, the crusader white mage, and all of the warrior spellcaster archetypes.

    Do you have a timeframe on when you think those will be up?

  4. - Top - End - #574
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dragon View Post
    Hey gnorman, there's some of the archetypes that are missing abilities.

    Namely, the crusader white mage, and all of the warrior spellcaster archetypes.

    Do you have a timeframe on when you think those will be up?
    This is probably the single most often asked question in this thread... The typical answer is along the lines of "maybe eventually, I'm trying to decide what to do with the system."
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  5. - Top - End - #575
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dragon View Post
    Hey gnorman, there's some of the archetypes that are missing abilities.

    Namely, the crusader white mage, and all of the warrior spellcaster archetypes.

    Do you have a timeframe on when you think those will be up?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    This is probably the single most often asked question in this thread... The typical answer is along the lines of "maybe eventually, I'm trying to decide what to do with the system."
    That's a LITTLE unfair. There is also the "being in graduate school" thing. But I take your point. Too much talk and not enough action. I've got a long weekend. I'll see what I can whip up by Monday.

  6. - Top - End - #576
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    That's a LITTLE unfair. There is also the "being in graduate school" thing. But I take your point. Too much talk and not enough action. I've got a long weekend. I'll see what I can whip up by Monday.
    It wasn't meant to be derogatory... Your usual response usually is along the lines of saying you're trying to decide how to handle different things in the system before approaching those.

    When you approach it, don't forget the comprehensive review I did of the Combat and Skilled classes quite awhile back.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2014-02-14 at 06:49 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #577
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    It wasn't meant to be derogatory... Your usual response usually is along the lines of saying you're trying to decide how to handle different things in the system before approaching those.

    When you approach it, don't forget the comprehensive review I did of the Combat and Skilled classes quite awhile back.
    My apologies then. I thought I detected a note of admonishment in your statement.

    I'll definitely be reviewing your review, as well as a couple of others. I still might be doing an overhaul in the future, but I'll at least COMPLETE the current version before moving forward.

  8. - Top - End - #578
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Something I am not clear on and would like a clarification:

    Deadly Aim: The hunter may add his Dexterity modifier to damage rolls while using ranged weapons. When using thrown weapons, he may substitute his Dexterity modifier for his Strength modifier for the purposes of damage rolls.
    Does that mean that, for ranged weapons in general, the hunter adds his Dex modifier on top of the Strength modifier if it would apply (such as composite bows or a Wood Elf), or does it replace the Strength modifier?

    Secondly, does the second clause supercede the first for thrown weapons? That is, do thrown weapons only get the Dex modifier (instead of the Str modifier), or do they get Dex + Dex?

  9. - Top - End - #579
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Hey folks! My internet was down most of the weekend, so I was unable to get much work done on this. But I'm still committed to plugging the existing holes in the system over the next week or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanix View Post
    Something I am not clear on and would like a clarification:

    Does that mean that, for ranged weapons in general, the hunter adds his Dex modifier on top of the Strength modifier if it would apply (such as composite bows or a Wood Elf), or does it replace the Strength modifier?

    Secondly, does the second clause supercede the first for thrown weapons? That is, do thrown weapons only get the Dex modifier (instead of the Str modifier), or do they get Dex + Dex?
    As written, the Dex bonus is CUMULATIVE with the Str bonus for general ranged weapons, and REPLACES the Str bonus for thrown weapons.

  10. - Top - End - #580
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    As written, the Dex bonus is CUMULATIVE with the Str bonus for general ranged weapons, and REPLACES the Str bonus for thrown weapons.
    Curses, there goes my damage 1d3+10 halfling sling user Thanks for the swift answer.
    Last edited by Mechanix; 2014-02-18 at 05:26 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanix View Post
    Curses, there goes my damage 1d3+10 halfling sling user Thanks for the swift answer.
    Dead Eye from dragon conpendium is your friend here.

    I'm planning to give my current drow hunter that feat, as well as crosbow sniper from PHB II.

    This makes for 2½*dex to damage. That's pretty dadly, although the investment (three feats in addition to standard crossbow archery feats) is pretty high.

  12. - Top - End - #582
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    I'll definitely be reviewing your review, as well as a couple of others. I still might be doing an overhaul in the future, but I'll at least COMPLETE the current version before moving forward.
    Well if you are looking over thoughts from others and completing the current system, please don't forget my ideas for the charlatan and the swashbuckler.
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  13. - Top - End - #583
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzyKP View Post
    Well if you are looking over thoughts from others and completing the current system, please don't forget my ideas for the charlatan and the swashbuckler.
    Both links point to the swashbuckler. But I'll be combing the whole thread(s) and reviewing a plethora of previous suggestions.

  14. - Top - End - #584
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    I just noticed that hunters don't get Track as a bonus feat. This seems strange. Was it intended?

    I can't really ever see myself spending a feat on Track before well into epic levels, as archery already needs a crapton of feats to work.

    But I do feel that it has flavor that the hunter should be able to back up from level one.

  15. - Top - End - #585
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Both links point to the swashbuckler. But I'll be combing the whole thread(s) and reviewing a plethora of previous suggestions.
    Oops, sorry, here is the charlatan:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=357
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  16. - Top - End - #586
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Hey there, people. I may look new, but well, I was a lurker for a good while.

    Well, I knew e6 by a friend's table (I think that's the right term, hihi), because she wanted a low-paced game, without the bizarre stuff that high levels bring. Yet I always ask her to nerf stuff, because even at e6, there is "too much damage" (invisible sneak attack dealing +21 extra damage? Damn it D: )

    As a developer (I fail at being able to mantain a game running, but at least I have Charisma) I make a lot of stuff, specially to decrease damage. I noticed missing classes, and I planned to try some~ As we are using Vancian to Psionics in our campaign, instead of bonus spells, we are using mantles and domains for the archetypes, it's working very nicely~

    But off to the homebrewing!

    First of all... Why is hyperborean an archetype of blue mage? Just because it can cast ice? And Ice = blue... One of our houserules was switching Chaos Child to Blue Mage, and Hyperborean to Red Mage. Talking of Chaos Child, it's the first proposed change. A child guided by their emotions to release their spells.

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    Blue Red Mage (Chaos Child):
    Lesser Archetype Power: The chaos child can let her passion and emotion rise to the surface in a wild surge as a wilder of the same level, except for the following: At 6th level, she can boost her caster level by up to three; The chaos child also suffers a state similar to psychic enervation, being dazed for one round and losing hit points equal to her chaos child level.
    Moderate Archetype Power: a chaos child’s intuition supersedes her intellect, alerting her to danger from touch attacks (including rays). She gains a bonus to Armor Class against all touch attacks equal to her Charisma bonus; however, her touch AC can never exceed her Armor Class against normal attacks.
    Greater Archetype Power: Any time a chaos child is affected by a mind-affecting or fear effect and makes its save, it can choose one of those options:
    Feign Success: it can make the caster believe the chaos child failed on its save.
    Drain Spell: it can force the caster to lose a spell of the same level (if a caster) or power points equivalent to the power level (if a manifester)
    Reflect Effect: it can force the caster to make a save against its own effect.


    Next one, that needed homebrewing, the hunter who swears revenge to races, buildings or religions to realize their deeds, the Vindicator.

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    Gladiator (Vindicator):
    Lesser Archetype Power: A vindicator gains the favored enemy class ability (as a ranger), but he has three options: Either choosing between a favored enemy on the ranger class list, targeting an organization (as urban ranger) or followers of an specific deity.
    Moderate Archetype Power: The vindicator can choose another favored enemy, following the same rules as above. If a target falls in more than one favored enemy category (example: a human from a thieves' guild marked as favored enemy), add half of the lowest bonus to the highest bonus. Also once per day, as a full-round action, the vindicator can switch one of its favored enemies for another one.
    Greater Archetype Power: The vindicator can choose another favored enemy, following the same rules as above. Also once per round, a vindicator can declare a melee counterattack in response of an opponent's melee attack. Both attacks resolve at the same time, and doesn't count as an attack of opportunity.


    Next one, the one able to cheat, deceive and walk around without a trace. The Charlatan.

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    Scoundrel (Charlatan):
    Lesser Archetype Power: A Charlatan can always take 10 in bluff (except for feinting in combat), Diplomacy, Disguise, Forgery and Sleight of Hand checks, even if stressed or endangered. Additionally, a charlatan can try a rushed Diplomacy check with half the penalty (-5).
    Moderate Archetype Power: Once per encounter, you can prevent a failure in a Bluff, Diplomacy or Disguise check by making a new Bluff check at the same DC.
    Greater Archetype Power: A Charlatan never looks suspicious. As long as there is no apparent weapons with them (due to not having weapons, or they being conceaed with Sleight of Hand checks), or not tried any ofensive action in anyone in the area, an opponent must take a Will save (DC 10 + half the charlatan's level + the charlatan's Charisma modifier) or they will favor attacking people who fulfills those conditions.


    Now, onto the White Mages. The Champion hits evil people in the face. The healer... heals. The exorcist gets rid of evil stuff with spells. The oracle looks into the past, present and future. And the executioner... What does he do? As I didn't found any freaking idea, I thought: Why not get rid of it and replace with something nice?

    The Champion was missing one archetype skill. The Executioner has only one. Then... Why not unite them?

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    White Mage (Champion):
    Moderate Archetype Power: A champion may expend a spell slot to channel Inflict Wounds spells (of the same level as the expended slot) as part of a melee attack. If the attack is successful, it deals normal weapon damage and the spell is delivered without offering a save. A champion may channel Cure spells in this way if he chooses, such as when attacking the undead or other creatures harmed by positive energy.


    That means we have one free archetype, right? Then, straight from Book of Erotic Fantasy, the divine caster made simple to look and act pretty (aka the social white mage), the Imagist, renamed as The Muse archetype:

    Spoiler
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    White Mage (Muse):

    Bonus Spells:
    1: Charm Person, Unseen Servant
    2: Calm Emotions, Zone of Truth
    3: Suggestion, Glibness
    Capstone: Geas/Quest

    Lesser Archetype Power: Image and personality is everything for a muse, so it's their spells. Therefore the muse's sole casting stat is Charisma, instead of Wisdom. Also add Perform, Bluff and Speak Language into their class skills.
    Moderate Archetype Power: A muse can use the granted power from its deity to inspire their allies to greater deeds. It can expend an daily use of Turn Undead to generate an sacred bonus to attack and damage rolls, ability checks, skill checks and saving throws to all allies in a 20ft radius equal to the muse's Charisma bonus for one round. This ability can be extended for only one person, as long as they remain in touch range with the muse.
    Greater Archetype Power: A muse's personality is as close as her deity's, to the point people avoid touching her. The muse is permanently affected by Sanctuary (DC = 10 + half the muse's level + the muse's Charisma modifier), as long as she only focuses on helping people. Any attack action used by the muse suppresses the sanctuary for one minute.


    Then we go again to the fighters. I don't understand why the fighter-mage is called "rage" magus. Then I used Calm Emotions. And they are just... The Magus.

    Spoiler
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    Gladiator (Magus):
    Lesser Archetype Power: A magus gains the ability to cast a small number of spells from the red mage's spell list, as outlined in the table below. In all respects, a magus casts spells just as a red mage would, including which kinds of armor and shields he can ignore arcane failure.
    Moderate Archetype Power: A magus can channel spells in their weapon (as a duskblade would do), as long as they have a range of Touch. Channeling a spell is part of a single attack action and can be used only once per round. If the attack hits, the spell is automatically discharged in the same target. If the attack misses, the weapon remais charged for one round per magus level. If the spell discharged requires a Reflex save, the target is disallowed to make a save.
    Greater Archetype Power: The magus can also channel spells with areas of Line, Burst and Cone. Spells channeled this way have a +1 bonus on their DC.


    There are a couple more stuff, but they aren't developed well enough to post.

    Hope you like it~
    Last edited by Aiinsha; 2014-03-14 at 06:44 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #587
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quick question, would anyone recommend this for use in it's current state? Or does it still need much more work? It seems decent enough to me, but I'd like someone else's opinion, I'm not the best judge of class balance, especially in homebrew.

  18. - Top - End - #588
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by MirthTheBard View Post
    Quick question, would anyone recommend this for use in it's current state? Or does it still need much more work? It seems decent enough to me, but I'd like someone else's opinion, I'm not the best judge of class balance, especially in homebrew.
    Mirth,

    In my own admittedly-biased opinion, I'd say that what's done is usable. There are definitely some troubling spots, though - the lack of archetype powers for a few scattered archetypes comes to mind, among other things. I do plan on filling in the gaps soon, once the quarter-from-hell is over (done by June!). I hope to at least update the table code sooner than that. But I am sadly a very busy man right now.

    Balance-wise, I've received positive feedback from most people who've used the system, although I think the casters still tend to dominate (this is a problem inherent in the system). But it's not AS bad.

    In any case, I hope other posters will feel free to chime in with their opinions. They may have some suggestions to help you fill in the gaps for your own group - I know some kind folks have written up some of the missing archetype powers.

  19. - Top - End - #589
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    I've played using this compendium three times. Always a fun game.

  20. - Top - End - #590
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    I think it is generally usable. I will pm you a decent way to change the table code when I am not mildly drunk and very sleepy, Gnorman.
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Hello, all!

    While I haven't had a TON of time to work on this project, I have been kicking around some ideas that I want to run by you - here's a Google doc that contains them. Would love to hear your thoughts on what may end up being version 3.0.

  22. - Top - End - #592
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Hello, all!

    While I haven't had a TON of time to work on this project, I have been kicking around some ideas that I want to run by you - here's a Google doc that contains them. Would love to hear your thoughts on what may end up being version 3.0.
    Mech Knight needs a version that gets a Large-sized suit of mech armor, a version that uses guns and sticky bombs, and a version that is an antimage.
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  23. - Top - End - #593
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    The only oddity would be the noble under divine, I guess. Otherwise looks solid. It'll be a shame watching some of these ideas get flushed, though. There's no spot for a soulknife-esque class, for example.

    Come to think of it that might be a fun set of feats. Something that gives you the ability to materialize a weapon. And now I'm on the idea of feat sets and thinking through some selections of binding, ToB, and incarnum feats and trying to figure out other subsystems to add.
    Last edited by Eldest; 2014-05-12 at 02:00 AM.
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldest View Post
    The only oddity would be the noble under divine, I guess. Otherwise looks solid. It'll be a shame watching some of these ideas get flushed, though. There's no spot for a soulknife-esque class, for example.

    Come to think of it that might be a fun set of feats. Something that gives you the ability to materialize a weapon. And now I'm on the idea of feat sets and thinking through some selections of binding, ToB, and incarnum feats and trying to figure out other subsystems to add.
    I justified the noble under divine as "divine right of nobility," but you're right, it's not a perfect fit. Then, nothing really is.

    Honestly, the version that removes skilled classes entirely works out to have better symmetry, but you end up losing the Spellsword, Blackguard, Noble, Sage, Empath, Operative, and Barbarian. The nice part about leaving them in is that it allows you to add in subsystems pretty easily - they mostly come in neat little groups of three (ToB and MoI, for example). But you could just as easily have one "Initiator" class and make crusader/swordsage/warblade archetypes. It's all malleable - I'm not wedded to groups of three, which don't make much sense for subsystems like binding. Ultimately, I don't want to end up having TOO many classes - ~20-25 is probably the upper limit, and even then I'd prefer less for simplicity's sake. Plus, the distinction between Combat and Skilled classes is pretty thin as it is. But I am also loathe to eliminate classes and concepts I've spent a good deal fleshing out, and on which players have come to rely.

    With the right archetype, the soulknife could easily exist on the monk (which is going to be look more like a psychic warrior anyway).

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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    I would definitely keep the skilled classes.
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Dropping by to say thanks for this project. I've been using these classes in my West Marches inspired E6 game for half a year now. Balance has thus far been pretty good, but there's only one who has managed to ascend to 3rd level and only two casters so much remains to be seen. Most are new to DnD, but even the older gamers have liked the way these work and play out so I'd say you have done excellent work. Even if it's incomplete.
    I really like the current set-up of classes (and it would be a huge load of work to change everything now) so can you give a good heads-up when/if you do a make-over for 3.0? Or are you just making a new thread for that?

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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Belmikor View Post
    Dropping by to say thanks for this project. I've been using these classes in my West Marches inspired E6 game for half a year now. Balance has thus far been pretty good, but there's only one who has managed to ascend to 3rd level and only two casters so much remains to be seen. Most are new to DnD, but even the older gamers have liked the way these work and play out so I'd say you have done excellent work. Even if it's incomplete.
    I really like the current set-up of classes (and it would be a huge load of work to change everything now) so can you give a good heads-up when/if you do a make-over for 3.0? Or are you just making a new thread for that?
    I will be completing version 2.0 before I ever move on to 3.0, which will definitely be its own thread. I wouldn't want to throw over players mid-game; this version of the compendium will be preserved for posterity's sake and for those who prefer it to whatever others may come to exist.

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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Tables have been updated!

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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    So not meaning to rush you, but how's it looking now that we're well into summer?
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    Default Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnorman View Post
    Hello, all!

    While I haven't had a TON of time to work on this project, I have been kicking around some ideas that I want to run by you - here's a Google doc that contains them. Would love to hear your thoughts on what may end up being version 3.0.
    If each class (Ranger for instance) is broken down into 3 sub-casses - you should make sure this doesn't spread them too thin and make their functionality too narrow.
    ... and 63 classes would require a lot of work to balance.


    EDIT: For version 3.0, consider not using the term "Archetype Power" for class abilities - it hides the actual features and denies the option of figuring the class by glancing the table.
    .
    Last edited by nonsi; 2014-08-04 at 04:01 AM.

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