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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Party Issues, Need Advice

    So my thursday game.
    There is myself, there is a DM, there are 4 other players.

    Sadly, I've been missing session due to work, and likely won't be back at the table for the next few weeks. But that isn't the issue.


    The DM openly stated at the beginning of the campaign that he is going to try and challenge us. We all knew that going in, though I don't think anyone paid much attention to this warning.
    The first two sessions went extremely well. I wouldn't call the encounters hard, but apparently the CR was higher than we normally face at level 3. Still, we muddled through.
    Then the next session I was gone. DM took that into account, and claims to have adjusted the encounters.
    First, the party of level 3's fought some kind of Swamp Hag. And it darn near killed them.
    Next, they fought some plants that had con drain. And it darn near killed them. Party got pretty darned mad at that encounter.

    A week later, they arrive at and enter the dungeon. This is where things start getting dicey.
    The DM openly stated that the majority of the dungeon is CR 1 and 2 encounters and creatures. There is a single CR7 creature in the dungeon. Don't face it until you feel you are ready. Don't face it unless you've rested. Feel free to run away if you accidently happen upon it.

    The CR7 creature in question was an Aboleth. Against a party of 4 level 3's, that places it as an Epic encounter (going by the Pathfinder CR table), but not outside their capability. I should also point out that the party has probably about 30%-50% additional Wealth by Level.

    Suffice to say, the moment they encountered it, after a few previous encounters that ate up a bunch of spells, they went right for it. The Aboleth managed to Dominate one party member, and ordered it to run away, somehow the party member chose not to. With only one party member left standing, the Aboleth tried to PAY the party to leave. This would have left the party with 1 member to res, would have paid for most of the res, and kept the party intact.
    They pushed on, regardless. And lost.

    So 2 party members out of the 4 died. I'm not entirely sure how the other two got away.

    Cue the Butthurt.
    The arguements from the party?
    -The CR was too high.
    -We couldn't run away.
    -We should never have to run away.
    -We didn't have a chance to spend our gold.
    -We didn't have a chance to rest first.
    -It used Dominate on us, that wasn't fair.


    This is the sort of thing that happens whenever an encounter beats them. Rather than learn from it or think on what they might have done differently, they complain. Loud and angry.
    They've walked away from some basic encounters and looked quite a mess.


    So I return to the table in a few weeks, but I will see these players several times between now and then. Any advice I should offer the players? Any advice you can offer me going back in?
    Last edited by Karoht; 2012-07-27 at 06:06 PM.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    Any advice I should offer the players?
    I would advise that they quit blaming other people for the choices they make. It sounds like the DM has been a straight shooter and telling them exactly what they are going to face and when they should face it. Funny how when they didn't take his warning seriously all of a sudden it's his fault. No...that sounds like it's on them. Tell them to pick themselves up, dust themselves off, treat it as a lesson learned, quit whining about life being unfair and get back to playing the game and having fun.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by King Atticus View Post
    I would advise that they quit blaming other people for the choices they make. It sounds like the DM has been a straight shooter and telling them exactly what they are going to face and when they should face it. Funny how when they didn't take his warning seriously all of a sudden it's his fault. No...that sounds like it's on them. Tell them to pick themselves up, dust themselves off, treat it as a lesson learned, quit whining about life being unfair and get back to playing the game and having fun.
    Yeah, that point was made several times, with the rebuttal of 'but then if we weren't supposed to fight it, it should not have been there'

    They are doing rather a lot to shift the blame away from themselves.

    Any ideas on how I can get them to see some sense in this?
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    IMO the DM's job is to make the game fun for everyone. If the players asked to be challenged then that's fine but I guess i have some sympathy for them because I've had some VERY bad DM's. The problem with making things harder is you get too much money and things quickly become too easy. I also have had some problems with the DM getting mad because we kill his monster that he liked too much, then he says we are too strong and makes us remake our whole party in the middle of a module but that's not really related to this.

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    Yeah, that point was made several times, with the rebuttal of 'but then if we weren't supposed to fight it, it should not have been there'

    They are doing rather a lot to shift the blame away from themselves.

    Any ideas on how I can get them to see some sense in this?
    What of their quest giver? He is there, but they are not supposed to fight him. Same goes for merchants, or the peasants on the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by JaronK View Post
    Frankly, a Wizard can suck even more than a Fighter could ever dream of sucking. A Fighter can stab himself to death, but only a Wizard could Plane Shift to some horrible far realm to be tortured for an eternity of insanity.


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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    I don't think it's about the DM's big bad monsters. He's extremely pleased if the party kills something. Anything. Even if it is something they shouldn't kill.


    Upfront the DM did say he was going to be challenging. I would suggest that you are correct, the party doesn't want to be challenged. Were I a less mature fellow I would suggest that their ideal encounter is an endless corridor of CR 1/2 orcs.
    I get winning is fun, but winning at something that is actually a challenge is fun too.

    Still, I get the feeling that the party is coming from that exact philosophy. It's the DM's job to make it fun, losing isn't fun, even if it's their fault, ergo the DM is doing it wrong.


    Right, so what do I (and I guess the DM too) do about it?
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    I don't like that solution either. Even if some of the players really would enjoy that kind of campaign (no challenging encounters, no monsters that can't be killed in two rounds or less), I don't see you or the DM enjoying something like that. And if you don't, then that's still a problem. It's the DM's job to make the game fun for everyone (not just 3/4ths of the players), but the party members share some responsibility. The DM is also playing the game in a sense and he shouldn't be bored out of his skull too.

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    I get the feeling that the party is coming from that exact philosophy. It's the DM's job to make it fun, losing isn't fun, even if it's their fault, ergo the DM is doing it wrong.
    Tell them to pick themselves up, dust themselves off, treat it as a lesson learned
    give them a link to this page
    Last edited by ceduct; 2012-07-27 at 11:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Explain to them that not every "monster" is some evil thing deserving of death, and that there's no reason for them to go through a ruin murdering everything that crosses their paths just like they shouldn't walk through a forest murdering every cuddly animal that they find or walk through a city street murdering every peasant that doesn't have the good sense to get out of their way. If a creature is acting threatening and is clearly hostile then there's a fight coming, but if there's a highly intelligent creature that's far more powerful than the rest of the denizens of a given location then it's probably got something to say (other than, "Die!") to a party of adventurers who prove capable of reaching it.
    Last edited by Biffoniacus_Furiou; 2012-07-27 at 11:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Play Chutes and Ladders until they decide they're willing to play something more challenging.
    78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.

    I had my players wake up almost naked in a goblin-crafted dungeon, a voice booming in their ears over a speaker system that they were now a part of a trial experiment for a new piece of magitech.

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ceduct View Post
    give them a link to this page
    Yeah, I somehow doubt that will go over well. Actually, I might link the DM to the conversation, come to think of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyfeld85 View Post
    Play Chutes and Ladders until they decide they're willing to play something more challenging.
    Man, don't tempt me.


    I've told the DM that when the party goes back to fight that Aboleth again (which now has two party members worth of gear and is probably going to change tactics to play even more dirty), if they choose to fight it when they aren't ready for it, he should just end the session right there and then. Pack up his stuff, don't say a word other than maybe facepalm, and go home. Try again the next week.

    I doubt he'll do it. If I were in his shoes I would.
    Last edited by Karoht; 2012-07-28 at 12:18 AM.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    I ran my party through a gauntlet of CON damage/drain enemies at level 1.

    Send them my way.
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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    This is not the DM's fault, based on the information that you've provided. They handled it as well as they could have, given the circumstances. A challenging encounter is always going to run the risk of a TPK, if it's handled poorly by the party. And this party handled it very poorly - they had good reason to suspect that the fight was going to be too much for them in their current state, and refused to alter their playstyle.

    Going back in, I would advise you to learn exactly what each player wants out of the game. Some players honestly do just want to run a low challenge game that allows them to crush opposition, and will get annoyed when they suffer even minor setbacks. There's nothing wrong with that style of play, so long as everyone's clear on what they want from a game, and what the game is offering. If they say that they want a challenging game, and act like this when faced with a challenge, then they'll need to work out their issues themselves. Discuss what everyone wants before the next session, and eitherhave the DM alter the game/not run that adventure if the players refuse to change position, or more hopefully, have the players come to terms with the idea that they're going be faced with actual challenges. Work it out out of game.
    Last edited by Menteith; 2012-07-28 at 12:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    damn, another lost post. This forum does that quite often.

    Ah well.

    That is so pathetic. Good luck.

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    confused Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    Still, I get the feeling that the party is coming from that exact philosophy. It's the DM's job to make it fun, losing isn't fun, even if it's their fault, ergo the DM is doing it wrong.
    One wonders why they think the DM's job is to "make it fun no matter what". It isn't. It sounds like they're meatheads who need to be bookslapped.

    I say that because from what you've said about them so far, they don't sound AT ALL like reasonable, rational people. I really don't think there's any way you and your DM CAN get them to see sense. Sorry, man.
    Last edited by Batou1976; 2012-07-28 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Errahz
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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    A few things I'd like to say for my 2 cents;

    Your party members are just plain stupid. I mean, the thing tried to PAY them to leave. That should have been the clue to get the hell away from there, even if it meant sucking up the fact that they lost an encounter.

    Second of all, this is more of a question; How high powered was this campaign? Under no circumstances does one simply throw an Aboleth at a 4-man normal-powered APL 3 party. The fact that it has a Will save DC 22 dominate monster 3/day means that it could have just spammed that on the Will-save sucky party members and then proceed to chew up the squishies, entirely in character with a +10 to hit and 1d8+5 to each tentacle, which it has four of... The DM did warn them ahead of time, but an Aboleth? A little bit overkill.

    Third of all, I think DM needs to have a chat with the players. They evidently sound like a bunch of meatheads, which, I sort of was when I started out. I would freak out over ability damage, when we were level 3. I soon learned the art of learning to deal with it, or getting creative.


    For a little bit of advice to the DM; look carefully at the monsters you plan to throw at the party. An Elasmosaurus was thrown at my party at 3rd level, also CR 7, even though there were six of us, and we managed to completely destroy it in a single round, thanks to our lucky elven ranger with her freakin' bow crits and my greataxe putting it into the single digits in one hit thanks to another crit, but if we went against an Aboleth, we would have been worse than demolished.


    For instance, encounter VS an Elasmosaurus

    Roll initiative, and the Elasmosaurus gets one or two good hits in before being killed by my party. Note that this thing is an animal.

    VS Aboleth, however...

    Aboleth has 15 INT. It has, entirely in character, a mind similar to that of a wizard's when planning. It could do the following;

    Win initiative thanks to it's +5 compared to the meatshield's likely +1 to 3, and then Dominate him. Proceed to send it after squishiest member of party, and duck under the water.

    If this were my character (AKA, since for our very first characters, we got max hit points + another HD roll + CON,), he had something along the lines of 50-60 HP at level 3, with a +9 to hit thanks to STR and bonuses. He would immediately go after the rogue (She had 13 HP due to bad HP rolls and no CON bonus) and put her into negatives instantly.

    You see where this is going?



    Yeah, the players were complete faces, but the DM could also have taken a closer look at his monsters.







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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    <-Is DM

    The party was actually level 4 when they encountered the Aboleth. Not that it really matters, I expected them to be 5-7. They chased down a fleeing enemy (From the Bathroom encounter, where they walked in and killed 3/4 orcs and a deep orc with Create Pit while one was in the can and the other four were waiting, during the surprise round.) and said enemy ran to the boss. (I did not expect them to *Fly* after the orc, as that would split the party, and yeah.)

    One of the players actually requested that the boss to this dungeon be an Aboleth. I asked if he was sure and gave him a week to think about it while I populated the dungeon.

    Mainly it was because the last time I was DMing (A swamp adventure) there was an Aboleth that wiped a lv 7 party, and after a few years of playing experience, (And another DM not knowing how to use an Aboleth leading to a very easy win for the party in another session) he wanted another crack at it.

    So I put the Aboleth in an underground river, with a secret passage under the water on the north side of the river. He Hallucinatory Terrain'd the river to look like a hallway, Programmed Image a couple of trolls in the hallway, Veil'd himself to look like an ogre, and then Project Image'd himself so he'd be up there with the trols, while his actual body stayed, invisible, in the secret passage (Which was, of course, blocked by an Illusory Wall.)

    The Aboleth just sat down there spamming dominate on anyone who fell into the water (and into his LoS/LoE) until he ran out, then used Hypnotic Pattern and Major Image to seperate and confound the party. Then he went after them one at a time, taking advantage of his reach and illusions to keep them from knowing where, exactly, he was.

    The Aboleth didn't engage the party at first, when I asked them to roll for initiative they had 2-3 rounds in an "empty" hallway with a ranting (And soon dead) orc while the Aboleth prepped all his illusions. It treated them as a serious threat what had trespassed on it's domain.
    (The orc was speaking Undercommon, telling the Aboleth about the party. From what it had seen in half a round, then while being chased.)

    The Petal died and really couldn't have been saved unless the party decided to retreat during one of the first six rounds of "Combat". She got abandoned by the melee, the Aboleth had her pegged as a caster, and she'd shrugged off a dominate. Then she went into the water.
    The cleric who died, he had every opportunity to leave. Seperated from the party, he ended up near an exit, and the Aboleth sort of ignored him for 3 or so rounds. After it had scared off the rest of the party, it went over and offered to pay him to leave. He attacked it instead.

    Just to clarify here, the party's objective in this dungeon was not "Fight an Aboleth", it was "Capture a Troll". They encountered a troll first thing, and chose to continue afterward, killing the troll instead of subduing it. (After reducing it to negatives, they decided to acid splash it and continue on, in the hopes of more, bigger trolls later on.)

    There ere two warnings about the Aboleth in-character, One was that the trolls seemed "Slimy, in poor health, and sallow", and the other was a vial of aboleth mucous as part of a treasure.

    Their quest-giver, by the way, is a lv 20 sorceror who can't leave his city because of a high-level-mage war. (Yeah, he's actually on his own demiplane, astral projecting and plane shifted, and using a simulacrum to talk to the party, but meh, details)
    They have a nigh-unlimited timeframe to collect the creatures the sorceror wants, as it's mostly for an experiment of his in eugenics, not something that can be done when you return mcguffin A to slot B.
    They just... like adventuring every day and resting little. I'm not sure why they don't take advantage of the down time, as in other campaigns we get so precious little of it.

    Anyhow, they went back for the Aboleth and I gave them a hallway with 200 orcs. They've got through 138 orcs, and seem pretty happy about it. I'll see where it goes next week.

    Edit: As for the party, they're running on 37 point buy, and have been given a heck of a lot of treasure. Most are using +2 weapons, except that one guy who has 8 +1 weapons instead. (Note, I did not suggest they blow all this money on ++ weapons, I suggested buying spells, wonderous items, etc. But they like bigger numbers)
    The average party member AC is 24, and +7 is the lowest to-hit in the party.

    At this point, however, there's only one spellcaster, and no full-casters in the group. Because the cleric decided to suicide instead of walking away. He Rerolled Rogue.
    Last edited by Acanous; 2012-07-28 at 01:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Yet another example of carebear players complaining because bad things happened to them.

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Whoah, Acanous sounds like one of the most easy going GMs I've ever heard of.

    I'd love him to GM for me. (My regular GM likes 24 point buy and tries to maintain WBL)
    Last edited by only1doug; 2012-07-28 at 01:45 AM.
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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Preface: my advice is usually more long-winded and tactful than this.

    Tell them to suck it up, and stop whining. If you do stupid things, it's usually going to hurt.
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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by only1doug View Post
    Whoah, Acanous sounds like one of the most easy going GMs I've ever heard of.

    I'd love him to GM for me. (My regular GM likes 24 point buy and tries to maintain WBL)

    Ancanous sounds similar to me, except I do try to stick to WBL. Back in my 2E days I made the mistake of giving a bit too much treasure, so these days I'm careful to not let PCs have too much.
    Last edited by Batou1976; 2012-07-28 at 03:42 AM. Reason: DYAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    What of their quest giver? He is there, but they are not supposed to fight him. Same goes for merchants, or the peasants on the street.
    Hey now, peasants are ALWAYS worth fighting (they drop farmland as tasty loot!)
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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Tell them to suck it up, I'd give anything for another DM like Acanous. My current DM is pretty similar and his game is awesome. If you've got the sense to optimize at all or just acknowledge the optimization-fu of anyone in the party, you shouldn't have trouble taking out monsters a few CRs above you as the regular encounter. This was clearly a high power campaign with every player making some stupid decision. Entirely in character, I probably would have murdered the other survivors and made peace with the Aboleth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    I probably would have murdered the other survivors and made peace with the Aboleth.
    That is an entirely valid option.

    I give more treasure because I expect the players to use more charge items, or single-use items. I try to make my encounters creative. You CAN slog through them, but it's generally not the best idea. I preffer to think of D&D combat like a puzzle. You solve it, gain XP, and move on.

    There's a stigma among players against single-use or non-rechargable items, because they're expensive and you can get that ability in a couple levels, anyhow. I like seeing wands and necklaces of fireballs in play. The latter is bloody useless after level 5 or so.

    I like them having options, and not having to worry about money management too much. (Money management might be fun for some, but noooot for others :p)
    If you make wise choices, or do creative, unexpected things, you end up saving money and earning more in the process. Poor choices, you lose money and HP.
    Of course, I'm also partial to ability damage, curses, diseases, and other afflictions that cost GP to cure. Most players hate this, but I find it makes the combats mean more. Giving such a high point-buy is a buffer against that sort of thing in the low levels. I busted out the first con-damage enemies at 3.
    I've been giving more gold since then to ensure they have means to prevent or negate it.

    Of course, I can't straight up tell them "The next few encounters will involve ability damage", but giving them a warning like a fort-save or STR damage trap should have been enough warning there.

    Should be OK though. They're going to get 10,000 XP for the orcs, which'll ding the whole party. No treasure though, aside from the falchions. That's in trapped chests further in :p

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
    Yet another example of carebear players complaining because bad things happened to them.
    hehe.

    @ DM: You told them there was a big bad monster in there. you dominated one to run away (rather then say kill his friends)? you tried to bribe them to run away from the monster? and they are upset that they lost? *Sigh*

    I have often stated in my games that the PC's may "Face challenges that they haven't a snowballs hope in hell of beating in a fight" and that sometimes it is best to back away. Like the time an Elder Red dragon drops down, taunts them, then gets into a fight with an Elder Gold Dragon. What follows went something along the lines of.

    The NPC's go "Quick! Now's our chance to run!!!!!"
    one PC goes "No! If we attack the Red the Gold will owe us"
    NPC "You're mad! We must flee, you could not hope to hurt such a beast, the second it notices you, you'd die"
    PC to DM "I cast True Strike" then "I throw my great sword at the Red Dragon"
    Me (DM) "*sigh* the rest of you are doing? ah right you are running for your lives" *Sword flies heroic style and DOES hurt the dragon for a tiny amount*
    Me "What's your AC? ah right the Red Dragon's tail swings round with such force knocking your lifeless body flying"
    PC "That is SO unfair!"
    Me: *face palm*

    yes the whole encounter was rather railroady but meant to set up a major point in the plot. I never thought the PC's would try and join in with the fight. I have since learned my lesson the PC's will ALWAYS do the most suicidal action when facing an unbeatable foe!
    "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."

    The First Rule of Thesaurus Club is: You do not Talk, converse, chat, speak, gossip, chatter, natter, utter, discuss, confer, reason, deliberate, consult, parley, lecture, sermon about Thesaurus Club!

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DoughGuy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Just today I had a DnD session where half the party (including me) ended up against a huge (size) fiendish minotaur of some sort (not exactly sure what it was). I was standing on a buildings roof and the first turn it casually backhanded me for 35 damage. I have 61 hp. Me and the other guy cast invis on ourselves and run. We were playing gestalt.
    Moral: Running away works, and not all PCs are suicidal
    Besides there was no way it had anything worth looting on it xD

    I agree that the OPs party should have handled it better. You warned them and did everything you could to save them. Acanous you sound like a great DM and that adventure sounds pretty damn cool.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    -We should never have to run away.
    That one made me laugh. An attitude like that will definitely result in death at some point. Any PC who doesn't consider running away, should be made aware of this option as soon as possible.
    DRAGON!? Run away or be toasted.. Oh but how we like to BBQ


  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mithril Leaf's Avatar

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranting Fool View Post
    *Stuff*
    What would you have done if they managed to kill it? I'm curious, because as a shaper psion, I love to have dragons around. Low touch AC and no poison immunity make them super tasty.

    For the DM of the topic, remember to keep in mind that sometimes players do in fact have aces up their sleeves, something you've overlooked. Be ready to deal with them winning just in case.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
    My Homebrew Signature such as it is.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    What would you have done if they managed to kill it? I'm curious, because as a shaper psion, I love to have dragons around. Low touch AC and no poison immunity make them super tasty.

    For the DM of the topic, remember to keep in mind that sometimes players do in fact have aces up their sleeves, something you've overlooked. Be ready to deal with them winning just in case.
    Unfortunately every monster in the world has gained poion immunity, because someone made a 1 trick pony and party instant wins are boring for the GM, given a choice of making every monster irrelevent or just making your character irrelevent he chose you, feel special?
    Doug

    Currently GMing :
    Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mithril Leaf's Avatar

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    Default Re: Party Issues, Need Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by only1doug View Post
    Unfortunately every monster in the world has gained poion immunity, because someone made a 1 trick pony and party instant wins are boring for the GM, given a choice of making every monster irrelevent or just making your character irrelevent he chose you, feel special?
    I'm not saying I'd use it all the time, but people often overlook a party's ability to kill things that they normally shouldn't be able to. Plus, I'm primarily a necromancer and summoner, poison is just a handy perk . It's nice to have a backup when things get out of hand.
    If you see me talking about Shaper Psions, assume that anything not poison immune within 100 feet will be dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by kardar233 View Post
    I was going to PM you about it because I wanted to know, but then you posted it later. Elegant solution. Watch out for Necropolitans.
    My Homebrew Signature such as it is.

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